The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 4: April-June 2021

[UglyAmerican]

It [the Foundation] wasn’t a sole William operational setup with him graciously offering a hand to Harry at all.

If I understood US Royal Watcher's post correctly, that was the description of William's "court" at Kensington palace, not of the Foundation.

 

[Osipi]

If I'm not mistaken, even the staff and press officers and PR people at KP served for both William and Harry and then Catherine and later on, Meghan when she married Harry. Everything, their "court", their staff, their foundation was both of the brother's as Charles funded all of it. This is what will happen for William as his three kids grow into adulthood. Harry, Meghan and their family would continue to be supported by Charles as he becomes king (if they had stayed as full time working royals). So its even not appropriate yet to state that William has his own court, really. His bills still land on Charles' desk to be paid.

Thanks Curryong for mentioning that both William and Harry used part of their inheritance from Diana as seed money for their foundation. I'd totally forgotten about that.

 

[Betsypaige]

I can't state with absolute surety why the Royal Foundation was split and whose bright idea it was but, as I stated earlier, I believe it was a move agreed on in preparation for the transition between monarchs and under whose umbrella funding would fall and in the future, no matter how it was done, William would be financed by his Duchy of Cornwall while Harry would still depend on his father for funding.

I assume you’re being sarcastic with the “bright idea”, but I think it actually was. William and Harry’s roads were going to diverge at some point anyway; this shouldn’t have been an issue except that H and M got their noses out of joint. Their future may not have been as prestigious as being King and Queen, but they would have been an immense value to Charles and then to William. Their support would have been vital to both Kings, but of course they chose to look at that in disdain, thinking themselves as deserving better, instead of being proud to be an integral part of both future reigns.

 

[Osipi]

I assume you’re being sarcastic with the “bright idea”, but I think it actually was. William and Harry’s roads were going to diverge at some point anyway; this shouldn’t have been an issue except that H and M got their noses out of joint. Their future may not have been as prestigious as being King and Queen, but they would have been an immense value to Charles and then to William. Their support would have been vital to both Kings, but of course they chose to look at that in disdain, thinking themselves as deserving better, instead of being proud to be an integral part of both future reigns.

I'm echoing a huge BINGO at this. Harry and Meghan were given roles that really cemented them as ambassadors to the Commonwealth nations and that is really nothing to sneeze at. I believe the "Firm" and the BRF actually went out of their way to assure Harry that he was valued and wanted and an integral part of "Team Windsor" but, as you said, Harry didn't see it that way. Perhaps he was too blinded by what he felt was his due and perhaps by ideas that Meghan had that would "modernize the monarchy". Neither one of them, and even William and Catherine and all the other members of "Team Windsor" had the right to expect to rewrite how the institution works.

One day the lightbulb is going to go on in Harry's head and he'll realize everything he's thrown away. I wouldn't want to be anywhere near him then.

 

[SplendaLover]

It's incredibly sad. Charles never knew his paternal grandfather, and he barely knew George VI; he regrets that to this day. I can't imagine how painful it is for him, for HM, to never see Archie.....time is going to run out, eventually. The problem is, Harry says he wants to break the cycle of what he sees as essentially abuse, so there's no reason for him to ever want Archie and his soon to be born sister to know his grandfather/great-grandmother.

How many times did Charles see Archie when he was residing at Frogmore Cottage? We have been told, by the media, that it was only 2 or 3 times. If true, why didn't he make more of an effort? Why didn't Charles try to help Harry when it was clear the Sussexes were struggling? Harry asked his family for help but was rebuffed. Charles shoulders some of the blame for this deteriorating situation.

 

[Betsypaige]

I'm echoing a huge BINGO at this. Harry and Meghan were given roles that really cemented them as ambassadors to the Commonwealth nations and that is really nothing to sneeze at. I believe the "Firm" and the BRF actually went out of their way to assure Harry that he was valued and wanted and an integral part of "Team Windsor" but, as you said, Harry didn't see it that way. Perhaps he was too blinded by what he felt was his due and perhaps by ideas that Meghan had that would "modernize the monarchy". Neither one of them, and even William and Catherine and all the other members of "Team Windsor" had the right to expect to rewrite how the institution works.

One day the lightbulb is going to go on in Harry's head and he'll realize everything he's thrown away. I wouldn't want to be anywhere near him then.

Charles, I have no doubt, emphasized to Harry that he was to be a significant part of his reign. I don't know if Harry didn't listen or if he listened MORE to Meghan, but considering the age of the working Royals and of Charles himself, there was an opportunity there to do important work. Then again, that's not H and M's priority, which is to be SEEN, to garner all the attention.

I think Meghan came into this with a desire to "revolutionize" the monarchy...HER way. Well, for one thing, modernization (slowly) is possible, but not revolution. If she wanted the freedom to do exactly as she wished, she shouldn't have married a Prince. Given Harry's "whatever Meghan wants, Meghan gets", I'm guessing he didn't instruct her too well on Royal life.

 

[NefariousPillow]

After viewing “The Me You Can’t See” this evening, I am completely convinced that further conversation regarding titles, inheritances, and any other sort of royal politics as they pertain to the Duke of Sussex are completely irrelevant at this juncture.

This guy has really been driven to believe a narrative about his mother, the BRF, and even the paparazzi themselves that is utterly fallacious in it’s conception. I was flabbergasted when I watched Prince Harry actually say that Diana was essentially chased down and killed because she was in a relationship with someone who was not white. And then in the same breath, go on to say that Meghan had the same bounty out on her head.

What in the actual......? He wasn’t given the latitude to grieve his mother properly as a child, OK I get that. But since when do we live in a world where correlation equals causality? The burden of proof is on Harry and to an extent Meghan as well to provide the extraordinary evidence necessary to support this rather extraordinary claim. Until then, it reeks of their own biased subjectivity.

 

[Sunnystar]

How many times did Charles see Archie when he was residing at Frogmore Cottage? We have been told, by the media, that it was only 2 or 3 times. If true, why didn't he make more of an effort? Why didn't Charles try to help Harry when it was clear the Sussexes were struggling? Harry asked his family for help but was rebuffed. Charles shoulders some of the blame for this deteriorating situation.

Where do we have any information about the number of times Charles saw Archie after he was born? He was at the christening, we know that for sure. Apart from that one time, we have absolutely nothing, one way or the other, to prove or disprove, the number of times Charles saw Archie. Furthermore, who is to say that Charles' efforts weren't spurned by the Sussexes? I mean, we had Harry telling us a couple months ago that he was ashamed to tell his family about Meghan's suicidal ideations, but then this week, he told us that he said something and was met with silence. So, who really knows what the actual truth of the matter is? Certainly not Harry.

 

[Hallo girl]

Right, thanks for reminding me FF actually confirmed that many of the petty, negative rumours really did happen (even announcing Archie at the wedding as well), except they happened in a way where the Sussexes were completely innocent and everyone else was at fault.

I'll say it again then, almost all the most negative stories came directly from them or were confirmed by their proxy. Meghan was even warned that the NY baby shower wouldn't be perceived well by the public and the palace did defend that one.

To be fair the version in FF goes into great detail about the process of picking a tiara, denies an emerald one was first choice although an early consideration. The bother started when Meghan arranged for her hairdresser to come over from, Paris I think, for a fitting with the tiara but Angela kelly the queens assistant said she could not come up to London from Windsor when they requested.

To summarise there was an incident over the tiara, not which one but when it could be removed from the vaults for the fitting, Harry felt Angela Kelly was being difficult , which was not her place, Harry was angry , there were words and as a result he went to the queen.

Angela did eventually come up to London to remove the tiara from the vaults.

How many times did Charles see Archie when he was residing at Frogmore Cottage? We have been told, by the media, that it was only 2 or 3 times. If true, why didn't he make more of an effort? Why didn't Charles try to help Harry when it was clear the Sussexes were struggling? Harry asked his family for help but was rebuffed. Charles shoulders some of the blame for this deteriorating situation.

This where there is a conflict in the story, firstly about the visits to Archie , do we now believe the press. Do we know for sure if invitations were made or turned down.
Secondly Harry is mixing up stories, what help did he ask for?
All we have been able to gather is that they wanted a HIHO package which was refused, from his own mouth he said he did not go to his family when Meghan was unwell.
If we are now believing the press, or ' sources said' they were offered a slow introduction to royal life similar to W & K, a country estate, even a commonwealth country was considered, but all was refused.
As I said the other day we need to be careful not to confuse fact with ' sources said'
We do know that they didn't go to Balmoral along with the rest of the family to visit the Queen they instead flew to the South of France, there was a great debate on here about travelling to Balmoral and the difficulties with a young baby only for them to go abroad instead.
Having said all that William has said, on record , that he wanted his father to slow down to spend more time with the children, so it could be true, the point is we do not know.

 

[MARG]

After viewing “The Me You Can’t See” this evening, I am completely convinced that further conversation regarding titles, inheritances, and any other sort of royal politics as they pertain to the Duke of Sussex are completely irrelevant at this juncture.

This guy has really been driven to believe a narrative about his mother, the BRF, and even the paparazzi themselves that is utterly fallacious in it’s conception. I was flabbergasted when I watched Prince Harry actually say that Diana was essentially chased down and killed because she was in a relationship with someone who was not white. And then in the same breath, go on to say that Meghan had the same bounty out on her head.

What in the actual......? He wasn’t given the latitude to grieve his mother properly as a child, OK I get that. But since when do we live in a world where correlation equals causality? The burden of proof is on Harry and to an extent Meghan as well to provide the extraordinary evidence necessary to support this rather extraordinary claim. Until then, it reeks of their own biased subjectivity.

I get where you are coming from but Harry's view of his mother is the same as William's and at present, he is publicly demanding the BBC withdraw the Panorama documentary and ensure it is never screened again. He is being backed by the BRF but William's ignorance of commerce is glaringly obvious. That documentary has been sold to innumerable TV stations in innumerable countries around the world.

As to the "What the actual . . . . ? Yes there were dire predictions should Diana continue dating a Muslim, and yes she and any man she was with were always going to be hounded after the documentary was aired because . . . Diana. Was there displeasure regarding her conduct, yes. Were there threats, not that anyone would tell us, but I am guessing the average Brits were more racist then than they are now? Were the Sussexes lives threatened, yes. Harry was called a "race traitor" for marrying Meghan. Was Meghan's life threatened, oh yes, she had married into the pristine bloodlines of the BRF and the child she was carrying was called an abomination and a stain on the aforementioned bloodline? The threats were quite clear and yes they were considered credible. Frogmore, a gift from HM, is unique in property given to royal offspring in that it lies within the private grounds of Windsor, not the Great Windsor Park.

It is my personal opinion that HM thought that Harry and Meghan would feel happier and more secure in their own space but within the Castle walls so to speak. The tabloids turned it into a bat to bash them regarding the money spent to restore Frogmore Cottage and the Palace did nothing to stop it. With the amount of malice, hatred and bile hurled at them and any joy in their home would have long gone I should think.

As to not having the latitude to grieve his mother? That was true. HM made the decision to stay at Balmoral to give them time to mourn, all the while the media were baying for her blood and demanding that Diana's "boys" be returned to Kensington Palace so they could all see them grieving or even give the tabloids a chance at a photo of a crying child. The Queen was finally forced to comply. You only have to look at the speculation of the media as to how they would handle Prince Philip's funeral and if one of them should break down to see not much has changed.

Whether we acknowledge it or not, William and Harry (who was still very young) were not like any of the many other thousands of children who lose a parent as they didn't have the anonymity to recover in private. Photos of them were with an awful lot of dosh.

 

[Denville]

Where do we have any information about the number of times Charles saw Archie after he was born? He was at the christening, we know that for sure. Apart from that one time, we have absolutely nothing, one way or the other, to prove or disprove, the number of times Charles saw Archie. Furthermore, who is to say that Charles' efforts weren't spurned by the Sussexes? I mean, we had Harry telling us a couple months ago that he was ashamed to tell his family about Meghan's suicidal ideations, but then this week, he told us that he said something and was met with silence. So, who really knows what the actual truth of the matter is? Certainly not Harry.

Perhaps its possible that the first story is NEARER to the truth, ie that Harry didn't tell his family about Meg's depression because he was ashamed.. Now he realizes that that didn't make him look good, and he's saying that Charles knew they were struggling and didn't offer any help and that he repeatedly asked for help but was rebuffed.
Or perhaps both stories are untrue. Perhaps Meghan was Ok, and they didn't want the Royals around.... and wanted to stay alone. No harm in that, provided you dont tell fibs about it to attack your family later.

Not that I necessarily think it is true but people say he is putting on a show now. How do you know he wasn't putting on shows then? Most of the stuff we saw was literally in front of the media. It was game face time. Not like these people don't play the media game and honestly it is a major part of being a royal. Fake it until you make it. And we know their PR office stays busy.

So if he was putting on a show then, ie he was pretending that he liked doing the royal job and that he liked meeting people and felt that he was doing some good by his tours and visits. NOW, he is telling us the truth in saying that he DIDNT like meeting poorer more unfortunate people, including ex soldiers and survivors of poverty and disasters and that he hated being sent on tours to see and help them?
If that is the truth then the "real Harry" is someone who didn't like people at all, and was miserable at having to interact with them and try to help them.

Whether we acknowledge it or not, William and Harry (who was still very young) were not like any of the many other thousands of children who lose a parent as they didn't have the anonymity to recover in private. Photos of them were with an awful lot of dosh.

I dont think that that's the case. For quite a while after Dianas death the Press had an agreement that they would leave the boys alone till they had had their education, and while there were occaisional pictures of them, by and large they were left alone.

 

[Hallo girl]

Where do we have any information about the number of times Charles saw Archie after he was born? He was at the christening, we know that for sure. Apart from that one time, we have absolutely nothing, one way or the other, to prove or disprove, the number of times Charles saw Archie. Furthermore, who is to say that Charles' efforts weren't spurned by the Sussexes? I mean, we had Harry telling us a couple months ago that he was ashamed to tell his family about Meghan's suicidal ideations, but then this week, he told us that he said something and was met with silence. So, who really knows what the actual truth of the matter is? Certainly not Harry.

Once again if we believe ' sources said' the original date of the Christening was changed as the couple had arranged it without checking if the Queen or Charles had prior engagements, and as it turned out both did, but the Queen was still unavailable for the revised date and did not attend.

If I'm not mistaken, even the staff and press officers and PR people at KP served for both William and Harry and then Catherine and later on, Meghan when she married Harry. Everything, their "court", their staff, their foundation was both of the brother's as Charles funded all of it. This is what will happen for William as his three kids grow into adulthood. Harry, Meghan and their family would continue to be supported by Charles as he becomes king (if they had stayed as full time working royals). So its even not appropriate yet to state that William has his own court, really. His bills still land on Charles' desk to be paid.

Thanks Curryong for mentioning that both William and Harry used part of their inheritance from Diana as seed money for their foundation. I'd totally forgotten about that.

I cannot remember the detail but when the foundation was changed to just the Cambridges did Harry receive some of the funds to start his own foundation / fund / charity.

 

[Roderick]

So if he was putting on a show then, ie he was pretending that he liked doing the royal job and that he liked meeting people and felt that he was doing some good by his tours and visits. NOW, he is telling us the truth in saying that he DIDNT like meeting poorer more unfortunate people, including ex soldiers and survivors of poverty and disasters and that he hated being sent on tours to see and help them?
If that is the truth then the "real Harry" is someone who didn't like people at all, and was miserable at having to interact with them and try to help them.

This was the prince who proposed just over 12 months ago a sort of half in, half out arrangement for his royal duties, so he didn't want out of them completely at that time. Then again, that statement was issued before the Queen said no to the idea and before Charles had apparently declined to keep funding the couple in California.

 

[Denville]

This was the prince who proposed just over 12 months ago a sort of half in, half out arrangement for his royal duties, so he didn't want out of them completely at that time. Then again, that statement was issued before the Queen said no to the idea and before Charles had apparently declined to keep funding the couple in California.

Yes but I think its pretty obvious that they wanted Half in Half out (which would of course mean they were doing some royal duties) because by doing that, they would be keeping up the image of themselves as royals, in the eyes of the American and world public. And I suspect also, they may have thought that if they were "half in" there would be a rock solid case for funding from te tax payer and from Charles. They would still have free security as working royals, and Charles would continue to pay them £2M a year for their expenses...

 

[Heavs]

Assuming for a second the 2-3 times Charles saw Archie is correct for discussion purposes and one of those is the Christening:

It's not a lot but the Sussexes didn't want to go to Balmoral when the rest of the family gathered, they went off on two of their own holidays, Charles IS a busy man and if things were frosty with the Cambridges it would also be harder to meet up and see all the grandchildren at once. And then 4 months after he was born they left the UK (including Christmas which is another baby seeing time) and he has never returned.

I flat out don't believe Harry said to his father "Meghan is suicidal please help us, I'm begging you" and Charles said "no, deal with it on your own". There are stories about him, HM, William and we know Kate was definitely in therapy around this time. Even if they were as cruel as Harry is painting them, they wouldn't want the bad press from her making an attempt.

More likely they were being told "no" to a lot of other things that made them very unhappy. No court, no HRH for Archie, no commercial deals, no political statements, accepting gifts and freebies etc.

They've never actually said how Meghan eventually got help and HM consented to their Canadian break so if they had said "we need a year off to deal with our mental health problems in privacy" I also doubt that would have been denied.

I dont think that that's the case. For quite a while after Dianas death the Press had an agreement that they would leave the boys alone till they had had their education, and while there were occaisional pictures of them, by and large they were left alone.

True, we mostly only saw them at official events and the very occasional pap shot of them until they finished uni. That's why Charles was so furious when his own brother's production company invaded their privacy at school.

 

[star84]

I cannot remember the detail but when the foundation was changed to just the Cambridges did Harry receive some of the funds to start his own foundation / fund / charity.

Yes, they did. There was then a complaint made that the transfer was against the rules. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-f...could-investigated-transfer-funds-cambridges/

 

[Denville]

Assuming for a second the 2-3 times Charles saw Archie is correct for discussion purposes and one of those is the Christening:



More likely they were being told "no" to a lot of other things that made them very unhappy. No court, no HRH for Archie, no commercial deals, no political statements, accepting gifts and freebies etc.

They've never actually said how Meghan eventually got help and HM consented to their Canadian break so if they had said "we need a year off to deal with our mental health problems in privacy" I also doubt that would have been denied.



True, we mostly only saw them at official events and the very occasional pap shot of them until they finished uni. That's why Charles was so furious when his own brother's production company invaded their privacy at school.

That was my impression. There were obviously SOME pics of them at official events, they are public figure but the press did leave them alone till they were older. And when they went back to school, they had housemasters who would have been there to take care of them and give them space to grieve in private. I think that at that stage when they were in the first year or 2 after Di's death they probably spent some of their time off with their Spencer aunts who would have been able to give them some privacy.. and there are no shots of them.
WRT H and Meg having time off from royal duties, I think that the story that seeped out about them maybe living in Africa was almost certianly an attempt by the RF to give them some down time.. It woudl have been difficult IMO to live in Africa because of secuirty, so that may be why it was abandoned. Possibly other locations were also considered like maybe Canada or Australia which would have been in the Commonwealth and safer.. I wonder if they did consider those and if H and Meg didn't accept because at heart that was not what they wanted. I'm sure Meg didn't want to be in Africa anyway though Harry might have liked it.. and I'm sure neither of them wanted an English country estate...
I can't really imagine that they asked for Archie to be HRH. Surely if they had they would have ben told "you know perfectly well that he'll be HRH.. unless you dont want it, when Charles is King?"

 

[Moran]

Look at how many pages we've written, trying to make sense of Harry's contradictory statements when there is a very simple explanation: the only currency he has is telling tales about the RF. And I mean tales - long and dramatic. Be honest, would you take the Harry from these shows as a shining example of successful therapy? I wouldn't.


If he wants to stay relevant, he needs to invent new past for himself. This isn't the end. The "compassionate" conversation with Oprah was a dead giveaway. There is worse to come. He has nothing else to offer. All those deals they brag with have this far amounted to big announcements. Spotify had them for exactly one podcast of their own. Invictus isn't the kind of thing that will bring the big money they need to keep themselves in the lifestyle they want. Harry only has his past with the RF. And I'm saying Harry because Meghan already exhausted her store. Even her most ardent supporters know she was in the RF for less than two years. How many shocking stories can she produce? It's all on Harry now.



To be fair, I don't think they expected things to go like this. IMO, they really believed they'll have a Hollywood empire ready to build due to their titles and they'd be able to really achieve something based on their titles but not dragging on the RF for ages. It's the same delusion that they were so much more popular than the Cambridges (comparing themselves to a couple that, after 7 years of marriage, had become known and slightly boring, not to the crowd-gatherind newlywed Cambridges), that it was their place to revolutionize the monarchy despite being No 6 and with the prospects of climbing down, not up, despite Meghan claiming that she didn't know anything about the monarchy. That didn't stop her from knowing what was best for the same monarchy. They overestimated their own importance and just how much they could achieve without being representatives of the monarchy and basically exiles from its official part. They thought themselves as worthy of the same perks Prince Michael and the York princesses received without realizing that these three didn't make themselves exiles from the official part, it was just that everyone knew there was no place there for them due to precedence, not bad relationship with the Crown.


Would Harry have been invited to speak only of therapy? I doubt it. He isn't a professional and the people who tuned it expected Diana, the RF, dirt and so on. He didn't have a choice, so he gave them this dirt. But I refuse to believe he's happy with it. I think he feels trapped and lashes out against his family for "forcing" him to land himself into this. Which is ridiculous for a man his age but... his dad cut him off financially, so...


There will be more. I'm not sure I'll actually read or listen. I can already say what the program will be.

 

[Denville]

L

Would Harry have been invited to speak only of therapy? I doubt it. He isn't a professional and the people who tuned it expected Diana, the RF, dirt and so on. He didn't have a choice, so he gave them this dirt. But I refuse to believe he's happy with it. I think he feels trapped and lashes out against his family for "forcing" him to land himself into this. Which is ridiculous for a man his age but... his dad cut him off financially, so...


There will be more. I'm not sure I'll actually read or listen. I can already say what the program will be.

but what else can Harry speak about, or make programmes about? I wondered why Spoitify or Netflix took them on at all... it doesn't seem like they had ideas of what sort of programmes they'd make? Royal history? IMO they dont have the qualifications.. or even the contacts to do progs like that. Charities? Not going to bring in a lot of money. So all that was left was "the innermost secrets of the RF and why they left and their mental health."
I dont know if he's happy with it.. but I find it hard to believe that he's really doing it against his will. I think that Meghan certainly has grudges enough about her time in the RF.. she's angry and when she's angry so Is H. So he does half believe that both of them were treated oh so badly.. and that he had to leave or they'd boht be suicidal. And I think that Harry does have issues with his father and perhaps with the RF as a whole (they probably told him "no" at various times) and so it is not hard for him to work himself up to a state where he is angry, lashes out at charles etc and doesn't care if what he says is true or not.

 

[Betsypaige]

Where do we have any information about the number of times Charles saw Archie after he was born? He was at the christening, we know that for sure. Apart from that one time, we have absolutely nothing, one way or the other, to prove or disprove, the number of times Charles saw Archie. Furthermore, who is to say that Charles' efforts weren't spurned by the Sussexes? I mean, we had Harry telling us a couple months ago that he was ashamed to tell his family about Meghan's suicidal ideations, but then this week, he told us that he said something and was met with silence. So, who really knows what the actual truth of the matter is? Certainly not Harry.

And really, Charles was there for Meghan when her father couldn’t be. Blaming him for her and Harry’s actions fails to give any credit to the Sussexes for their own choices...

Having said all that William has said, on record , that he wanted his father to slow down to spend more time with the children, so it could be true, the point is we do not know.

I don’t think it’s fair to speculate about this based on William’s comments from a few years ago. I don’t think the original comment was fair at all. It seems the only photos the BRF have of Archie are ones from when he was an infant, so either none of them had seen him much before Megxit or else they couldn’t get permission to post. Charles clearly adores his grandchildren, and I’m sure he would have made time to visit if he’d been allowed.

Heaves:

It's not a lot but the Sussexes didn't want to go to Balmoral when the rest of the family gathered, they went off on two of their own holidays, Charles IS a busy man and if things were frosty with the Cambridges it would also be harder to meet up and see all the grandchildren at once. And then 4 months after he was born they left the UK (including Christmas which is another baby seeing time) and he has never returned.

Things were not “frosty” with the Cambridges, though, quite the contrary.

 

[Moran]

but what else can Harry speak about, or make programmes about? I wondered why Spoitify or Netflix took them on at all... it doesn't seem like they had ideas of what sort of programmes they'd make? Royal history? IMO they dont have the qualifications.. or even the contacts to do progs like that. Charities? Not going to bring in a lot of money. So all that was left was "the innermost secrets of the RF and why they left and their mental health."
I dont know if he's happy with it.. but I find it hard to believe that he's really doing it against his will. I think that Meghan certainly has grudges enough about her time in the RF.. she's angry and when she's angry so Is H. So he does half believe that both of them were treated oh so badly.. and that he had to leave or they'd boht be suicidal. And I think that Harry does have issues with his father and perhaps with the RF as a whole (they probably told him "no" at various times) and so it is not hard for him to work himself up to a state where he is angry, lashes out at charles etc and doesn't care if what he says is true or not.

Oh, I meant the RF series. You know, my childhood was so terrible, Auntie Anne gave me a mean look each time I reached for the sugar, my father ate children for breakfast, this sort of thing.


I'm not sure he's doing these appearances against his will but if he doesn't do them in this exact manner, the interest in him and Meghan will fizzle out, so what choice does he have but do them?

 

[Alison H]

William didn't say that Charles never saw the children, just that it would be nice if he saw them more often. That's hardly unusual when a grandparent is still working.


There are loads of royal history programmes on: Channels 4 and 5 seem to fill up every Saturday evening with them. Some are presented by historians who are genuine experts on the subject, but a lot of them just involve presenters interviewing historians and showing nice shots of royal palaces and old paintings of monarchs. Harry and Meghan could do that, but I'm not sure that a Saturday evening slot on Channel 5 is quite what they're after.

 

[Moran]

There are loads of royal history programmes on: Channels 4 and 5 seem to fill up every Saturday evening with them. Some are presented by historians who are genuine experts on the subject, but a lot of them just involve presenters interviewing historians and showing nice shots of royal palaces and old paintings of monarchs. Harry and Meghan could do that, but I'm not sure that a Saturday evening slot on Channel 5 is quite what they're after.

It isn't. I meant the outpouring of Harry's "revelations" regarding his family. They're the only thing that keeps them in the news, so I refer to it as his personal "program" - the tragedy of growing up as Harry and the pain his family inflicted on him. What we've seen this far is just the beginning.

 

[Heavs]

Look at how many pages we've written, trying to make sense of Harry's contradictory statements when there is a very simple explanation: the only currency he has is telling tales about the RF. And I mean tales - long and dramatic. Be honest, would you take the Harry from these shows as a shining example of successful therapy? I wouldn't.


If he wants to stay relevant, he needs to invent new past for himself. This isn't the end. The "compassionate" conversation with Oprah was a dead giveaway. There is worse to come. He has nothing else to offer. All those deals they brag with have this far amounted to big announcements. Spotify had them for exactly one podcast of their own. Invictus isn't the kind of thing that will bring the big money they need to keep themselves in the lifestyle they want. Harry only has his past with the RF. And I'm saying Harry because Meghan already exhausted her store. Even her most ardent supporters know she was in the RF for less than two years. How many shocking stories can she produce? It's all on Harry now.



To be fair, I don't think they expected things to go like this. IMO, they really believed they'll have a Hollywood empire ready to build due to their titles and they'd be able to really achieve something based on their titles but not dragging on the RF for ages. It's the same delusion that they were so much more popular than the Cambridges (comparing themselves to a couple that, after 7 years of marriage, had become known and slightly boring, not to the crowd-gatherind newlywed Cambridges), that it was their place to revolutionize the monarchy despite being No 6 and with the prospects of climbing down, not up, despite Meghan claiming that she didn't know anything about the monarchy. That didn't stop her from knowing what was best for the same monarchy. They overestimated their own importance and just how much they could achieve without being representatives of the monarchy and basically exiles from its official part. They thought themselves as worthy of the same perks Prince Michael and the York princesses received without realizing that these three didn't make themselves exiles from the official part, it was just that everyone knew there was no place there for them due to precedence, not bad relationship with the Crown.


Would Harry have been invited to speak only of therapy? I doubt it. He isn't a professional and the people who tuned it expected Diana, the RF, dirt and so on. He didn't have a choice, so he gave them this dirt. But I refuse to believe he's happy with it. I think he feels trapped and lashes out against his family for "forcing" him to land himself into this. Which is ridiculous for a man his age but... his dad cut him off financially, so...


There will be more. I'm not sure I'll actually read or listen. I can already say what the program will be.

I think you're right there will be a less "compassionate" version in the future, even though that conflicts with their "we want to monetize kindness" brand. I couldn't believe Harry seriously thinks that was compassionate but he seems to think it was because they claimed to want to go back "in a heart beat" if the family begged forgiveness. And because they haven't Harry's doubling down on everything.

I also think you're right that they thought companies would be lining up to work with them and it hasn't quite worked out like that. We know they had to cold call for a lot of the Zoom conferences they did last year.

They were being courted by Quibi before they left and possibly assumed that was just the tip of the iceberg once they were fully able to commercialised.

Of course COVID probably threw a huge wrench in their plans, as did the taxpayers and Charles cutting them off. Although even without COVID they would have been scrambling once the family said no to their HIHO plan which was the centre piece of their new life as well.

 

[Betsypaige]

but what else can Harry speak about, or make programmes about? I wondered why Spoitify or Netflix took them on at all... it doesn't seem like they had ideas of what sort of programmes they'd make? Royal history? IMO they dont have the qualifications.. or even the contacts to do progs like that. Charities? Not going to bring in a lot of money. So all that was left was "the innermost secrets of the RF and why they left and their mental health."
I dont know if he's happy with it.. but I find it hard to believe that he's really doing it against his will. I think that Meghan certainly has grudges enough about her time in the RF.. she's angry and when she's angry so Is H. So he does half believe that both of them were treated oh so badly.. and that he had to leave or they'd boht be suicidal. And I think that Harry does have issues with his father and perhaps with the RF as a whole (they probably told him "no" at various times) and so it is not hard for him to work himself up to a state where he is angry, lashes out at charles etc and doesn't care if what he says is true or not.

They cared about Harry’s title/connection to HM and future Kings; they’d have paid him just to read the phone book.

Trying to evaluate someone’s psychological state is always a tricky thing. Harry has to take responsibility for his words and deeds himself, but I think subconsciously he may have been looking for a strong woman - like his mother - and finds it easier to follow her. Unfortunately, Meghan is no Diana (this is not to say Diana didn’t make mistakes, but for all of them, she was essentially a warm hearted person); she is ruthlessly ambitious, for herself and H

 

[Denville]

Oh, I meant the RF series. You know, my childhood was so terrible, Auntie Anne gave me a mean look each time I reached for the sugar, my father ate children for breakfast, this sort of thing.


I'm not sure he's doing these appearances against his will but if he doesn't do them in this exact manner, the interest in him and Meghan will fizzle out, so what choice does he have but do them? He doesn't want to downsize and live within the means they have.

but surely there are other ways of doing it? I agree that in the end, that's really all he has to talk about.. but the way he's doing it, is the most dramatic and nasty way that he could. Even if he does do it, I think the interest is going to fizzle out in a while.. He's told too many conflicting versions in a short time.. people will get suspicous... and the story of "Dad locked us up in a school and beat us when we came home" is going to look a bit odd, after a while....
but WRT say the tours abroad and so on, he could have spoken about them in a different way, that would not have been so offensive to the people he met ... He could have said "I know people think royal life is glamourous but travelling so much is hard work, and at times it was difficult to keep on with it..." rather than "I hated doing it,.. I was forced into it.. and it was awful meeting those people when I was trapped and they were free."

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

We have to remember too that Charles was the one funding William and Harry's office and staff at KP and still does for William. This falls to Charles because of his Duchy of Cornwall. Originally named The Foundation of Prince William and Prince Harry, the foundation was set up in September 2009 to enable Prince William and his brother, Prince Harry to take forward their charitable ambitions. This was two years before William married Catherine and neither man was a full time working royal. It seemed to run smoothly for all three of them until Harry married Meghan and brought her into the fold.

I can't state with absolute surety why the Royal Foundation was split and whose bright idea it was but, as I stated earlier, I believe it was a move agreed on in preparation for the transition between monarchs and under whose umbrella funding would fall and in the future, no matter how it was done, William would be financed by his Duchy of Cornwall while Harry would still depend on his father for funding.

Thanks for your thoughts, Osipi!

 

[Betsypaige]

William didn't say that Charles never saw the children, just that it would be nice if he saw them more often. That's hardly unusual when a grandparent is still working.


There are loads of royal history programmes on: Channels 4 and 5 seem to fill up every Saturday evening with them. Some are presented by historians who are genuine experts on the subject, but a lot of them just involve presenters interviewing historians and showing nice shots of royal palaces and old paintings of monarchs. Harry and Meghan could do that, but I'm not sure that a Saturday evening slot on Channel 5 is quite what they're after.

Right. He said Charles was a brilliant grandfather, and the kids loved seeing him, they all did. William also said that his father was getting older (words to that effect) and they wish he could just relax and spend time with the family, that they all want him around as long as possible (I believe he was including H in this as H was sitting next to him). Evidently Charles took that to heart (and/or W spoke to him) ....

 

[Moran]

but surely there are other ways of doing it? I agree that in the end, that's really all he has to talk about.. but the way he's doing it, is the most dramatic and nasty way that he could. Even if he does do it, I think the interest is going to fizzle out in a while.. He's told too many conflicting versions in a short time.. people will get suspicous... and the story of "Dad locked us up in a school and beat us when we came home" is going to look a bit odd, after a while....
but WRT say the tours abroad and so on, he could have spoken about them in a different way, that would not have been so offensive to the people he met ... He could have said "I know people think royal life is glamourous but travelling so much is hard work, and at times it was difficult to keep on with it..." rather than "I hated doing it,.. I was forced into it.. and it was awful meeting those people when I was trapped and they were free."

There are other ways but Harry is now in the culture of tabloids (that don't exist in America but whatever). Drama is what sells. How many people in US would listen to what Crown Princess Mary has to say about her own introduction to her new life? Not much because she's always said something along the lines of, It was very difficult. But she never complains and she never accuses. That's why she's never going to sell. Furthermore, she doesn't need to make herself known beyond Denmark. She doesn't court market. Her lifestyle is secured so she doesn't need to worry about staying in people's minds. People who just go about their work and lives just aren't this interesting. And Harry and Meghan lost this security.


Sure, people are going to get tired with him complaining after a while. But if he stops complaining, if he's being nice and reasonable, they're going to get tired immediately. He cannot allow to establish himself as an unobtrusive presence as if he were still a working royal because he wants another kind of work and it's directly linked to his being visible.

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

The Foundation of Prince William and Prince Harry was co-founded by the brothers in September 2009, to further their interests in such things as veterans affairs and the environment.

As shown in the link underneath both brothers were involved in the setting up of the Foundation, and both put a certain amount of money from their Diana inheritance to seed it. Indeed Harry had by that time already founded Sentebale.


It wasn’t a sole William operational setup with him graciously offering a hand to Harry at all. Prince Charles agreed to finance it on an ongoing basis and in those years staff answered to both brothers.


https://writeroyalty.com/going-their-separate-ways-the-end-of-the-fab-four/

This is a great article! Thanks for posting it, Curryong!

Even now, most of the negative opinions of Harry are caused by words coming out of his own mouth and not press stories or leaks. The BRF sources are quiet except to say how upset Charles and HM are.

I couldn't believe my ears when I heard him openly talk about hating meeting people and hating the tours abroad he did and thus by association in his own words hating humanitarianism and veterans the two things supposedly close to his heart. He did this both on Dax Shephard and Oprah 2.0 so it wasn't a momentary mistake.

Same with things like the Bank of Dad and his drug use. That wasn't coming from the media running stories, that's directly on him and it will be his own fault if a few weeks from now the Sun run a story adding in all the bits they've held back in years past about his wild behaviour.

The press always knew, it's a dead giveaway when they start saying "he was in a place where lots of drug taking was happening but there's no suggestion he partook personally." BP/KP protected him from that and many other stories.

Palace staff (often lower down the totem pole) may have leaked things like the crying thing or tiaragate but a lot of major stuff never made it though except by his own mouth and rumours like the tea being thrown in Admiralty House were online gossip only.

"Cheeky Chappie Harry" I thought was partly a media creation but he did kind-of really exist as the raw material for Edward Lane Fox to work with but Harry is now determined to destroy that image one and for all and say he never existed and assuming that's correct, KP did a superb job in crafting that for him and playing down and encouraging the public to ignore the less pleasant parts. To his advantage in becoming the most popular royal - which he now wants to retain whilst being a completely different person.

Was the “hating meeting people and....tours” on the Apple interviews? I don’t remember hearing him saying this. Somehow I’m missing some things of late