The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 4: April-June 2021

[Betsypaige]

This is something I’ve been thinking. I strongly believe in getting mental health care when you need it. Absolutely.

But if Harry and Meghan were my....introduction of sorts to the benefits of it, I’m not sure I’d walk away thinking how helpful it is. They come across to me as angry, vengeful, unable to take responsibility for their role in things (and they’re not blameless in this mess), and lacking in compassion and kindness to their own family. Publicly dragging your family through the mud repeatedly is not good either IMO. This is what you get out of mental health help? I know this isn’t what is supposed to be my takeaway- but that’s what I’m getting. I’m shaking my head on this.

Yes- I read an article yesterday that HM is deeply hurt by what Harry’s said lately. While I think you have to take those kinds of articles with a grain of salt generally....I don’t doubt she’s hurt. Bad enough he and Meghan’s first interview was in the last weeks of Philip’s life, but the hammering keeps on shortly after his death. It’s unbelievable.

I’m not paying to watch this either. It is a disgrace IMO.

I feel the same way, Erin. Of course most of us don’t have a forum to make our feelings public, but I venture to guess that most people who go into therapy do it for themselves, NOT to hurt their family (even if their family has hurt them). Harry, for whatever reason, is directing his misplaced anger and pain at his father and family, who so clearly love him. It’s uncomfortable to even read about - and I don’t imagine that anyone considering therapy would want to mete out such “punishment” even directly to their family.

I read such articles, too...and clearly Charles is suffering also. I believe these sources because they are clearly trying to get a message out to Harry, hoping that he will see how much damage he’s doing, how much pain he’s causing. The BRF can’t speak, so these sources will.

 

[Queen Claude]

And the obvious question to follow is what H&M might have done to antagonise the BRF in their entirety after that? What we do know is that the press narrative around Meghan did turn after the tour.

What was also going on in this timeframe was that Prince Charles was turning 70 and a biography written by Robert Jobson was released. In the biography Jobson stated that, in the run up to his wedding, Prince Harry was ‘petulant and short-tempered’ with members of staff. Raising his voice on occasion, Harry would insist: ‘What Meghan wants, she gets.’ (source). Apparently that statement caused The Sun's Dan Wootton, and eventually The Times' Valentine Low, to dig deeper and that is when the story came out about a controversy involving Meghan's wedding tiara. Wootton definitely presented the story with an anti-Meghan slant, even though if you read the actual article IMO, Harry was the one who was really acting out. A key tidbit from those articles was that the Queen got involved and had a word with Harry.

This is the story that started what Sussex supporters began to refer to as the smear campaign. Not long after this story was published, then came stories about a personal assistant leaving, Meghan sending emails in the wee hours of the morning and Meghan making Kate cry. It should be noted that even though there were all these negative stories about Meghan, I think that she still maintained her popularity amongst royal watchers - those who disliked her feasted off the stories, but I don't think these stories converted many, I don't think that Meghan took a material hit to her popularity until the New York baby shower.

What we now know that we did not know in 2018 is about the email Jason Knauf wrote alleging bullying behavior by Meghan. I am definitely not trying to be a Wootton apologist, but I now know why he took the slant that he took in the article when he broke the story about the tiara.

So to answer you question, and I am not saying that the allegations against Meghan are the unadulterated truth, but Jason Knauf's email was sent out the same month as the Australian tour (October 2018). So did Harry and Meghan actually "antagonise the BRF in their entirety"? Other than a few odd incidents, it wasn't actually British Royal Family members that Harry and Meghan antagonized - that would come later, but there was definitely negativity between the Sussexes and staff / courtiers, and that led to the unwillingness on the part of "the institution" to protect Meghan when the negative stories started coming out, and not only that, it is very likely that the staffers / courtiers were themselves the direct or indirect sources of a good chunk of these stories.

 

[Betsypaige]

Are you so sure he loved his father? I think he's got anger against William too.. possibly the queen as well but he's not going to say that because she's 95 and the top lady.
I feel that he is pretty capable of hiding his true feelings..and that it seems to me that it suited him 3 years ago to be seen with Charles, all friendly and saying "Thanks Pa" when Charles was doing what he wanted.. but the disconnect between Harry who seemed warm and friendly, and Harry who says he hated the royal job and didn't like meeting people.. is so big.. that I think its possible that "the real Harry" didn't care for his dad, that he had resentment over C's treatment of Diana, over what he probably perceived as neglgect when he was a kid, and now over Charles finally saying "No" to him....

I find it impossible to believe that Harry doesn’t love his father. He’s angry, yes, but that’s not the same thing.

I go into a lot of that in post 3113

 

[Hallo girl]

A previous poster has commented about Harry making the comment that nobody wants to be King, I thought I would google that comment it comes from a Guardian interview before his marriage , makes very interesting reading, compared to how he is speaking today.

 

[Mirabel]

Off topic, but I hadn’t heard about these twins! They really picked the heavier twin as the heir? Wouldn’t the firstborn be the child who was literally born first? Babies come out one at a time during a C-section, so there would still be an older twin.

It was first reported that the decision was made according to weight, but I believe they did say afterward that there were other factors involved. It was over a decade ago, so I'm not entirely certain what the factors were.

But the article below claims that it was due to weight.

https://www.legit.ng/1342031-rose-hanbury-biography-title-husband-children-controversies.html

 

[Heavs]

What we now know that we did not know in 2018 is about the email Jason Knauf wrote alleging bullying behavior by Meghan. I am definitely not trying to be a Wootton apologist, but I now know why he took the slant that he took in the article when he broke the story about the tiara.

So to answer you question, and I am not saying that the allegations against Meghan are the unadulterated truth, but Jason Knauf's email was sent out the same month as the Australian tour (October 2018). So did Harry and Meghan actually "antagonise the BRF in their entirety"? Other than a few odd incidents, it wasn't actually British Royal Family members that Harry and Meghan antagonized - that would come later, but there was definitely negativity between the Sussexes and staff / courtiers, and that led to the unwillingness on the part of "the institution" to protect Meghan when the negative stories started coming out, and not only that, it is very likely that the staffers / courtiers were themselves the direct or indirect sources of a good chunk of these stories.

Probably. There was talk about "who the hell did she piss off" at the time and it seemed like The Sun must have had a source because Dan Wooton among others was getting a steady stream of negative stories.

But even then most of them weren't worth commenting on individually, how many times has Kate had screaming rows with people according to the magazines?, and they *did* try and shut down that blessed crying story with "this never happened" and defended the baby shower as a private event.

Even A-list stars ignore most of what's printed about them so it's not even a Hollywood thing to try and demand your publicist takes on every single false claim.

The BRF haven't exactly issued a long statement about how amazing Charles is as a father or what assistance he's given them or anything like that, as they seem to want for Meghan.

In this interview from Afghanistan he clearly doesn't like the press but he comments that he hopes everyone realises The Sun isn't the truth. Although even then he's not shy about saying he doesn't want the press out to interview him whilst he's working. But now his entire job is giving interviews.

1 minute mark

 

[Betsypaige]

A previous poster has commented about Harry making the comment that nobody wants to be King, I thought I would google that comment it comes from a Guardian interview before his marriage , makes very interesting reading, compared to how he is speaking today.

I just read it now....fascinating.

“Is there any one of the royal family who wants to be king or queen? I don’t think so, but we will carry out our duties at the right time.”

I suppose this is the much nicer version of saying Charles and William are trapped. Obviously being monarch means your mother or father has died, so in that sense, no one WANTS the job.

But he was also conscious of the ability of his status to help him make a difference, he said. “I feel there is just a smallish window when people are interested in me before [William’s children Prince George and Princess Charlotte] take over, and I’ve got to make the most of it,” he said in the interview at Kensington Palace.

This is puzzling to me. Even when George and Charlotte - and now Louis - grow up enough to take on duties, Harry would have always made a difference.

The prince, who is dating US actress Meghan Markle, added that if he were to have children they would have an ordinary life, saying: “Even if I was king, I would do my own shopping. But it’s a tricky balancing act. We don’t want to dilute the magic … The British public and the whole world need institutions like it.”

Hmmm

“My search began when I was in my mid-20s,” he said. “I needed to fix the mistakes I was making.” He has previously admitted that his grief lead him to two years of “total chaos” and that he had been very close to a breakdown on several occasions. He sought professional help, on his brother’s advice, when he was 28.

“My mother died when I was very young. I didn’t want to be in the position I was in, but I eventually pulled my head out of the sand, started listening to people and decided to use my role for good. I am now fired up and energised and love charity stuff, meeting people and making them laugh,” he said.

“I sometimes still feel I am living in a goldfish bowl, but I now manage it better. I still have a naughty streak too, which I enjoy and is how I relate to those individuals who have got themselves into trouble.”

Wow, it’s striking how different his attitude was then compared to today. Harry has been in therapy in order to process his mother’s death, and yet not only isn’t there this anger towards his father, the BRF and the Monarchy, there’s a real appreciation for the good the institution can do...and he sounds like he enjoys doing good.



https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...rry-says-no-one-royal-family-wants-king-queen

 

[Hallo girl]

I was reading something that Patrick Jephson had written ( Dianas private secretary) that his role was to protect Diana from the press and herself.
Harry doesn't appear to have anybody protecting him at the moment, they appear to be surrounded with people promoting them at any cost.
There is no such thing as bad publicity,
What I do find interesting is their apparent two prong attack, the interviews slating the royal family/ institution but then the need to let everybody know that they just phone up the Queen when they want. It is if we all need to know that there is still a link there, and the queen is fine with them.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Yes Im surprised at that. As they dont pick the babies out at the same time, then surely the one who was grabbed out first, is the elder....

You are correct. During a C-section it is the newborn who is removed from the womb first who is considered the "eldest"....not the one who weighs more.

In Monaco, Princess Gabriella both weighed more and was delivered 2 minutes before her brother Jacques. But she is Comtesse de Carlades instead of the heir due to male preference in the Monagesque Constitution.

 

[Denville]

You are correct. During a C-section it is the newborn who is removed from the womb first who is considered the "eldest"....not the one who weighs more.

In Monaco, Princess Gabriella both weighed more and was delivered 2 minutes before her brother Jacques. But she is Comtesse de Carlades instead of the heir due to male preference in the Monagesque Constitution.

yes but that's the point. These were 2 boys. Had they been a boy and girl, as the children of a peer, it wouldn't matter which was born first, the boy would be heir.

I was reading something that Patrick Jephson had written ( Dianas private secretary) that his role was to protect Diana from the press and herself.
Harry doesn't appear to have anybody protecting him at the moment, they appear to be surrounded with people promoting them at any cost.
There is no such thing as bad publicity,
What I do find interesting is their apparent two prong attack, the interviews slating the royal family/ institution but then the need to let everybody know that they just phone up the Queen when they want. It is if we all need to know that there is still a link there, and the queen is fine with them.

yes what was that ridiculous bit about the waffle iron in the COrden interview? Was it meant to be funny? Why would a baby want a waffle iron? Why mention it except to show "Oh we're all good with the queen, we talk to her and Grandad Philip whenever we like....but then when it suits them they are insinuating that SOMEONE in the RF said something unkind and racist about Archie... and that they were so cruelly treated they had to leave the UK. Dont they SEE how totally inconsistent they are?

I just read it now....fascinating.








Wow, it’s striking how different his attitude was then compared to today. Harry has been in therapy in order to process his mother’s death, and yet not only isn’t there this anger towards his father, the BRF and the Monarchy, there’s a real appreciation for the good the institution can do...and he sounds like he enjoys doing good.



https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...rry-says-no-one-royal-family-wants-king-queen

But how true was all this? DID he really "see the good side of being royal" and enjoy doing good and meeting people and so on? Or was it, as I half suspect, that back then he couldn't see any way out, other than just saying "I' dont want to be a working, touring royal.. but the alternative is to stay in the army for life.. or just retire into some kind of private life... so I guess I better make the most of the royal life.."
I think that mabye, back then, he didn't know what he'd do with himself if he didn't take on the working royal role.. Apart from the army Harry had no real work experience and no real passion...and we know he wouldn't stay in the army in a desk job. Im not saying Will was passionate about flying but I think he enjoyed it reasonably well and was prepared to take on a role of flying copters for a few years, and seeing his kids, knowing that sooner or later, he would have to take on the royal role and thinking that he was best to make the best of his few years of fairly normal life.

Harry didn't seem to know what to do with himself if he didn't stay in the army and he didn't do something else.. and so, I guess he was persuaded by the queen and the RF into taking on royal duties and looking like he was enjoying it and felt it was a good job to have.
Then he met Meghan and she was very different to the people he usually met. She wasn't so in awe of royal life.. and she had ideas on how to use it as a stepping stone to freedom, to money making, to living abroad somewhere that he could enjoy himself and do something that would bring hem admiration and money but witout the restrictions that being a Prince would have. He wouldn't have to wait for his Dad to hand out the money, give him a house etc etc.. he wouldn't be told "You cant do this or that, you cant swear in public, you shouldn't go on jet planes while you're taking about carbon footprints".
I think that it was only through Meghan that Harry could see a way to freedom....

 

[Moran]

yes what was that ridiculous bit about the waffle iron in the COrden interview? Was it meant to be funny? Why would a baby want a waffle iron? Why mention it except to show "Oh we're all good with the queen, we talk to her and Grandad Philip whenever we like....but then when it suits them they are insinuating that SOMEONE in the RF said something unkind and racist about Archie... and that they were so cruelly treated they had to leave the UK. Dont they SEE how totally inconsistent they are?

Because they wanted to show how down to earth they were raising Archie to be. That's the only explanation I have. Oh look, we aren't like those stuffy Wills and Kate who employ nannies (there wasn't something about Kate using nannies in FF and how Harry didn't want that for his child.It struck me as both a not so sly dig at his brother and sister in-law's parenting, which he had no business delivering, from his vast knowledge as a father of one - one! - newborn). Our kid has been going to the kitchen since he was a baby. Strangely how all other babies I've seen have spent time in the kitchen - some even on the counter in their baskets -because their mums didn't have a staff to do the cooking. At not quite two, not one of them wanted a waffle maker, although they all loved waffles.


Of course it was to show how good they are with TQ. They need this sprinkle of royalty and given the mud they're slinging over everyone else, it can only come from her.

 

[Denville]

Because they wanted to show how down to earth they were raising Archie to be. That's the only explanation I have. Oh look, we aren't like those stuffy Wills and Kate who employ nannies (there wasn't something about Kate using nannies in FF and how Harry didn't want that for his child.It struck me as both a not so sly dig at his brother and sister in-law's parenting, which he had no business delivering, from his vast knowledge as a father of one - one! - newborn). Our kid has been going to the kitchen since he was a baby. S

Of course it was to show how good they are with TQ. They need this sprinkle of royalty and given the mud they're slinging over everyone else, it can only come from her.

I am sure they have a nanny or else, Doria is being the baby minder... but seriously a waffle maker? Who would give a toddler a dangerous thing like that? was it meant to show that the queen isnt too well up on what waffle makers are.. and gave it to him?

 

[Moran]

I am sure they have a nanny or else, Doria is being the baby minder... but seriously a waffle maker? Who would give a toddler a dangerous thing like that? was it meant to show that the queen isnt too well up on what waffle makers are.. and gave it to him?

Well, I'm sure no one actually gave Archie the waffle maker. I'm equally sure he threw an almighty tantrum over not being able to play with HIS present. The logic behind this escapes me.


The sarcastical part of me thinks that if the story is true, TQ and PP trolled them in a superb manner, despite perhaps not knowing what exactly trolls are (if PP cut the conversation short by closing the laptop, would he really know about trolls?) Harry and Meghan's bitterness towards William and Catherine is evident, they don't even bother to hide it. So the present was perfectly chosen: William and Catherine will use KP, the royal insignia, the tiaras and so on; Harry and Meghan will use the waffle maker because they didn't like what they were given previously. Everyone got their due.


I like to imagine Archie received a real present as well but that's just my wishful thinking.

 

[Denville]

Well, I'm sure no one actually gave Archie the waffle maker. I'm equally sure he threw an almighty tantrum over not being able with HIS present. The logic behind this escapes me.




I like to imagine Archie received a real present as well but that's just my wishful thinking.

I thought that that was what Harry said.. that the queen asked what A would like, and they said a waffle maker.. and she sent one. I daresay the woman doesn't know what one is.. and thought "well if that's what they say, that's what he'll get..."

 

[Moran]

I thought that that was what Harry said.. that the queen asked what A would like, and they said a waffle maker.. and she sent one. I daresay the woman doesn't know what one is.. and thought "well if that's what they say, that's what he'll get..."

I know but the whole thing sounds so patently absurd, from Archie wanting a waffle maker to the Queen actually sending one. I can't believe she really doesn't know what one is... it doesn't take much wits to conclude that it produces waffles.


I'm known to often send two presents: what parents said the child would like and what I think the child would like. Usually, they like both. I do hope it was something like this for Archie.


Admittedly, no one has ever asked for a waffle maker, a formula warmer, or an iron to iron the kid's clothes with. I would have sent one, I suppose, and then something that's actually for the child. No way am I going to believe that these things constitute a present any child would enjoy. No one would ever let them near.

 

[Denville]

I doubt if the queen bought it herself, she proballby just told an aide to get one as part of H's set of Christmas presents. But it is pretty ridiculous.

 

[Alisa]

And the obvious question to follow is what H&M might have done to antagonise the BRF in their entirety after that? What we do know is that the press narrative around Meghan did turn after the tour.

I agree to a point. The one thing that we have not seen with this couple is accountability. I firmly believe that everything is a 2- way street. The couple seems bent on showing how they've been wrong but don't actually admit to where they went wrong (please correct me if they did).

 

[shopgirl44]

I am sure they have a nanny or else, Doria is being the baby minder... but seriously a waffle maker? Who would give a toddler a dangerous thing like that? was it meant to show that the queen isnt too well up on what waffle makers are.. and gave it to him?

I feel Doria is the baby minder. That or she’s always over checking on Archie. Which is why I find it odd that Harry said something about Archie learning to say grandma via the photo of Diana in his nursery.

 

[Hallo girl]

I feel Doria is the baby minder. That or she’s always over checking on Archie. Which is why I find it odd that Harry said something about Archie learning to say grandma via the photo of Diana in his nursery.

I thought they said in Oprah interview that one of his first words was something else was it something to do with sitting down or take a seat, I just cannot quite remember.
I hope this is not turning into a war over Diana, William said some time ago about photographs of his mother and his children knew that they had 2 grand mother's.

 

[caethi]

I know but the whole thing sounds so patently absurd, from Archie wanting a waffle maker to the Queen actually sending one. I can't believe she really doesn't know what one is... it doesn't take much wits to conclude that it produces waffles.


I'm known to often send two presents: what parents said the child would like and what I think the child would like. Usually, they like both. I do hope it was something like this for Archie.


Admittedly, no one has ever asked for a waffle maker, a formula warmer, or an iron to iron the kid's clothes with. I would have sent one, I suppose, and then something that's actually for the child. No way am I going to believe that these things constitute a present any child would enjoy. No one would ever let them near.

Maybe Archie likes waffles and such a gift would allow Archie to have waffles for breakfast, although it would be an odd request.

 

[Denville]

Or mabye it was a load of nonsense.. and Archie never asked for anyting like that...

 

[Betsypaige]

I was reading something that Patrick Jephson had written ( Dianas private secretary) that his role was to protect Diana from the press and herself.
Harry doesn't appear to have anybody protecting him at the moment, they appear to be surrounded with people promoting them at any cost.
There is no such thing as bad publicity,
What I do find interesting is their apparent two prong attack, the interviews slating the royal family/ institution but then the need to let everybody know that they just phone up the Queen when they want. It is if we all need to know that there is still a link there, and the queen is fine with them.

That’s what they want, “yes men”. They don’t want different opinions, they only want to be told what they want to hear. These people don’t care about them personally - they’re doing their job so they get paid, and their job is to make Harry and Meghan happy.

yes but that's the point. These were 2 boys. Had they been a boy and girl, as the children of a peer, it wouldn't matter which was born first, the boy would be heir.



yes what was that ridiculous bit about the waffle iron in the COrden interview? Was it meant to be funny? Why would a baby want a waffle iron? Why mention it except to show "Oh we're all good with the queen, we talk to her and Grandad Philip whenever we like....but then when it suits them they are insinuating that SOMEONE in the RF said something unkind and racist about Archie... and that they were so cruelly treated they had to leave the UK. Dont they SEE how totally inconsistent they are?



But how true was all this? DID he really "see the good side of being royal" and enjoy doing good and meeting people and so on? Or was it, as I half suspect, that back then he couldn't see any way out, other than just saying "I' dont want to be a working, touring royal.. but the alternative is to stay in the army for life.. or just retire into some kind of private life... so I guess I better make the most of the royal life.."
I think that mabye, back then, he didn't know what he'd do with himself if he didn't take on the working royal role.. Apart from the army Harry had no real work experience and no real passion...and we know he wouldn't stay in the army in a desk job. Im not saying Will was passionate about flying but I think he enjoyed it reasonably well and was prepared to take on a role of flying copters for a few years, and seeing his kids, knowing that sooner or later, he would have to take on the royal role and thinking that he was best to make the best of his few years of fairly normal life.

Harry didn't seem to know what to do with himself if he didn't stay in the army and he didn't do something else.. and so, I guess he was persuaded by the queen and the RF into taking on royal duties and looking like he was enjoying it and felt it was a good job to have.
Then he met Meghan and she was very different to the people he usually met. She wasn't so in awe of royal life.. and she had ideas on how to use it as a stepping stone to freedom, to money making, to living abroad somewhere that he could enjoy himself and do something that would bring hem admiration and money but witout the restrictions that being a Prince would have. He wouldn't have to wait for his Dad to hand out the money, give him a house etc etc.. he wouldn't be told "You cant do this or that, you cant swear in public, you shouldn't go on jet planes while you're taking about carbon footprints".
I think that it was only through Meghan that Harry could see a way to freedom....

I’m not inclined to think that Harry was being a phony. I think he honestly enjoyed his work, helping people...though that doesn’t mean he didn’t also sometimes want freedom.
My point was that therapy seemed to be helping him, which he freely admitted, and there’s no anger at his family or Institution. IMO, he’s putting on more of an act now, which I explained earlier. He can’t possibly think we’re stupid enough to take him at face value when we have evidence of not only his father taking him bike riding, but also of H speaking lovingly about his pa. So, I think he’s been encouraged in his insecurities to feel as if he’s not loved or valued enough, hence his anger, hence his choosing to attack Charles and the family in public. It’s a public temper tantrum brought on by insecurities encouraged by Meghan . It’s a crazy mix ...no one easy answer

 

[wartenberg7]

A previous poster has commented about Harry making the comment that nobody wants to be King, I thought I would google that comment it comes from a Guardian interview before his marriage , makes very interesting reading, compared to how he is speaking today.

I have very vivid memories when H was interviewed after George or Charlotte had been born when he made a relieved remark that he was happy he now moves further down in the line of succession (so he wouldn´t be in "danger" anymore having to become the monarch one day).
Still his wife, who seems to literally loathe the monarchy, claims it was Archie´s "birthright" to assume a title...
Another contradiction was Harrys anger about the "4 generations" photo (photos like these are mainly for public purpose. So why being frustrated when you want nothing to do with ascending the throne..?) back in late 2019, where he and his son had not been included.

 

[Osipi]

Sitting here reading through all these posts made me think of something that probably had the biggest effect on Harry. I'm going to start though by describing what I'm seeing of Harry right now.

Harry, at this time, is a man with an elephant on his back. That elephant is very heavy to carry around and results in Harry's thinking and focusing so much on the elephant that the normal conclusion is that the elephant is the problem. This elephant represents everything and anything that he's accumulated in his life that he feels has gotten him to this point. Being royal, his mother's death, relationship with his father and brother and perceived mistreatment of his beloved wife and child for various reasons. A lot of things add up to be this elephant. He's identifying this elephant but for the life of him, he cannot get this elephant off his back. He hasn't realized yet that the simple way of getting rid of that elephant is to simply drop it. Accept the elephant for what he is, acknowledge that awful things can and do happen in life but he's not required to carry them around as baggage for the rest of his life. This takes a lot of work, soul searching and taking responsibility for his own words and actions. He's not reached that point yet, IMO.

Now, what really did instigate the big change in Harry. One thing that stands out clearly for me is something we've all been seeing even before Harry met Meghan and yes, it does have to do with the "institution" of the "Firm" and Harry's family. I've mentioned it quite a few times in the past years and I call it a soft transition between monarchs. This is what has really highlighted to Harry the difference in his place in things. It was cool when Philip retired and the family all seemed to stress that they were "Team Windsor". Things were going good with the Royal Foundation including Catherine with the two brothers. William and Harry were at the start of defining their full time royal roles and gradually stepping into them. There was cooperation.

Then Harry meets Meghan. He's gobsmacked hard and falls in total and complete love and it becomes his total focus. Then things start happening that really outline the differences. The big one was the splitting of the Royal Foundation from the "fab four" to "them two" that would remain as is at KP. I do believe that this split was made in preparation for when Charles is monarch. As Charles as Duke of Cornwall and Prince of Wales has his own court, so will William. Harry then requested his own court but that was a no go. Even the Queen's children didn't have their own court and were under the BP umbrella. Everything after that point seemed to Harry that he was getting "less" and relegated to being more minor and it didn't sit well. As the wants grew and were declined, everything soured and they both end up exactly where they are now. Harry has yet to realize that where he is now is the result of the choices he's made. No one else's fault but his own.

I worry about Harry because if he continues in the way he has been lately, the only person he's really hurting is himself and his own family. The sooner he can face and eradicate the elephant on his back, the better.

 

[wartenberg7]

Then Harry meets Meghan. He's gobsmacked hard and falls in total and complete love and it becomes his total focus. Then things start happening that really outline the differences. The big one was the splitting of the Royal Foundation from the "fab four" to "them two" that would remain as is at KP. I do believe that this split was made in preparation for when Charles is monarch. As Charles as Duke of Cornwall and Prince of Wales has his own court, so will William. Harry then requested his own court but that was a no go. Even the Queen's children didn't have their own court and were under the BP umbrella. Everything after that point seemed to Harry that he was getting "less" and relegated to being more minor and it didn't sit well. As the wants grew and were declined, everything soured and they both end up exactly where they are now. Harry has yet to realize that where he is now is the result of the choices he's made. No one else's fault but his own.

I worry about Harry because if he continues in the way he has been lately, the only person he's really hurting is himself and his own family. The sooner he can face and eradicate the elephant on his back, the better.

I agree on a lot of you say, but if someone detests royal life that much, why then being angry about not having ones own court?
I know lots of people claim Harry is a fool, but being born into Royalty he will know that the monarch has a "court" (the Queen Mother, who was also a crowned Queen of England, had her own court, too), but not a second born "spare", slipping down the line of succession with every child his older sibling has.
I still have trouble in understanding a couple so opposed to the Prince´s former life, insisting on wedding tiaras, titles and courts....!

 

[Osipi]

I agree on a lot of you say, but if someone detests royal life that much, why then being angry about not having ones own court?
I know lots of people claim Harry is a fool, but being born into Royalty he will know that the monarch has a "court" (the Queen Mother, who was also a crowned Queen of England, had her own court, too), but not a second born "spare", slipping down the line of succession with every child his older sibling has.
I still have trouble in understanding a couple so opposed to the Prince´s former life, insisting on wedding tiaras, titles and courts....!

The elephant on Harry's back is what is making him contradict everything that went before. When you have an accident and have major injuries and broken bones, you're not about to focus on the split hairs on your head. The elephant is preventing Harry from rational thought and acceptance of his place in the scheme of things. It's the negatives of Harry's former life that is preventing him from seeing the positives that could come with his new life and his decisions. It all does boil down to Harry, himself, taking responsibility for his own words and actions and doing something positive with them. He cannot be happy or happy with anyone or anything else until he can be happy with himself and who he is.

 

[Claire]

I agree on a lot of you say, but if someone detests royal life that much, why then being angry about not having ones own court?
I know lots of people claim Harry is a fool, but being born into Royalty he will know that the monarch has a "court" (the Queen Mother, who was also a crowned Queen of England, had her own court, too), but not a second born "spare", slipping down the line of succession with every child his older sibling has.
I still have trouble in understanding a couple so opposed to the Prince´s former life, insisting on wedding tiaras, titles and courts....!

Personally I think Harry and Meghan loved the royal family - they loved the perks and the holidays and the celebrity and the respect that it gardened for them with no need of anything else. They loved the publicity and the publics admiration. However they didn't like that they had no control of public perception - he didn't like the limitation of royal life.
I think it is like a child when they don't get the part in the play and then they note that the play was stupid to beginning with and they never wanted it anyway and the school is stupid for even putting on the play on.
M&H never got what they wanted - so they will go and be royals and give services elsewhere. They will live a better life than any princess could. Raise a better family - the more Harry and Meghan talk the more you realize that it is just better grapes.

 

[Osipi]

This is why I've mentioned that what I'd really like to see happen is a sequel to "The Me You Can't See" called "The Me I Didn't See". It would accentuate the road to good mental health. Right now, all we're seeing is a huge pity party and emphasis on everything negative that has ever happened to Harry from his point of view. It's all something or someone else's fault. Just laying out in broad daylight to millions of people what Harry has determined to be the root of all problems says he's in the process of selective rationalization but it really is only the very beginning and seriously looks like someone that has just realized that he needs help and honestly believes that therapy is a cure all like a band aid. He's got to do the leg work himself for it actually to work and right now his attitude is pathetic. Yeps. It's very much like the kid that didn't get the part in the play he wanted.

I'm including a link to a Newsweek article where they've taken a poll of British citizens and whether they want to hear more from Harry or less. The breakdown in demographics is interesting. Newsweek is regarded here in the USA as being reputable.

https://www.newsweek.com/majority-b...nce-harry-meghan-markle-newsweek-poll-1594051

 

[Ariel]

This is something I’ve been thinking. I strongly believe in getting mental health care when you need it. Absolutely.

But if Harry and Meghan were my....introduction of sorts to the benefits of it, I’m not sure I’d walk away thinking how helpful it is. They come across to me as angry, vengeful, unable to take responsibility for their role in things (and they’re not blameless in this mess), and lacking in compassion and kindness to their own family. Publicly dragging your family through the mud repeatedly is not good either IMO. This is what you get out of mental health help? I know this isn’t what is supposed to be my takeaway- but that’s what I’m getting. I’m shaking my head on this.

Yes- I read an article yesterday that HM is deeply hurt by what Harry’s said lately. While I think you have to take those kinds of articles with a grain of salt generally....I don’t doubt she’s hurt. Bad enough he and Meghan’s first interview was in the last weeks of Philip’s life, but the hammering keeps on shortly after his death. It’s unbelievable.

I’m not paying to watch this either. It is a disgrace IMO.

Yes, that’s what I thought

 

[Sandy345]

The QUeen would never ring up a tab editor to tell him or her how she feels. Never Ever. But the thing is those who don't want to hear from Harry and Meghan have the freedom not to listen or read about them.