The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 4: April-June 2021

[Denville]

Sandringham alone is 20,000 acres, there are villages on the estate but he couldn't go a bike ride.
Of course they never joined the family again did they, the year Archie was born they didn't go to Balmoral along with everybody else, they were away by the following Christmas.

Going back to the discussions going back 2 years, it is now becoming more obvious that the problems arose because of the discussions to leave, where as Harry is making out they left because of treatment towards Meghan.

From day 1 there was a plan, the guest list at the wedding should have told us right away, Oprah ,the Clooneys.
There was a plan from the first date, IMO

I think there was a plan but I can't work out whether they told the queen. They must have told her SOMETHING but was it just "We dont know if we can stand the strain of full time royal work and can we take some time off like Will and Kate did"?
I can't imagine that they were honest about their desire for living much of the time in the US and the "half in half out plan". I'm sure she would have said to them "No, to the HIHO, but maybe we can work out some "time off to move into royal life slowly".
but clearly neiter Harry nor Meg wanted to do anything like lead a low key life with Harry doing some job, as William did...

 

[Heavs]

Good article...it touches upon so many issues I have with Harry. I don’t expect him to remember things when he was 4 years old, but I’m sure he sent bike riding with his pa other times, and surely he’s seen the photos. No amount of claims of Daddy Dearest will erase the memories of seeing Charles walk Meghan down the aisle and treat Doria with such warmth. It won’t erase Harry mouthing “thank you, pa” in gratitude, his speaking of his pa being there for he and William after Diana died. Does H think we’re stupid ? No matter what he’s saying, he knows these things happened - they’re on video and audio tape, lol.

I don't necessarily expect him to remember things from when he was 4 or before but there are photos of them riding together when he was 10-11, not to mention, hiking, horse riding, canoeing, sailing, playing football, skiing. And I don't believe it was for the cameras. There are things they can criticise Charles for I'm sure but outdoor pursuits with his sons isn't one of them.

He also mentioned it twice *after* the media printed the proof he was wrong so he's sticking to his guns about something that was factually wrong. Several things that have been proved actually wrong so it makes everything else extremely suspect.

If I had the answer to that, I could pedal that in the media, lol. For someone who claims to be so much his mother’s son, Harry sure doesn’t have her sense of duty and compassion (of course, his father has that in spades as well, but for Harry, it’s “Charles, who?”

I know. He doesn't seem to say what he wanted instead, just that everyone was "forcing" him to be the family yes man when he wasn't. He's coming across as someone who quit his job (Army) decided to work for the family business and then started complaining when he realised he'd actually have to do some work instead of showing up to collect his payslip every once in a while and smile.

I don't know why he singled out Nepal of all places when he had a personal connection there and stayed longer than planned to help privately. Maybe because his other trip in 2016 was to the Caribbean and if he complained about that he would be accused of anti black racism?

From watching the clips and reading transcripts he also doesn't seem to make any connection to being "burned out" on "work" whilst actively in addiction or that his family would have been besides themselves with worry that he wasn't getting help or it and his behaviour/attitude to them would have been terrible, as it is for most addicts. Assuming what he says is true.

 

[Hallo girl]

I think there was a plan but I can't work out whether they told the queen. They must have told her SOMETHING but was it just "We dont know if we can stand the strain of full time royal work and can we take some time off like Will and Kate did"?
I can't imagine that they were honest about their desire for living much of the time in the US and the "half in half out plan". I'm sure she would have said to them "No, to the HIHO, but maybe we can work out some "time off to move into royal life slowly".
but clearly neiter Harry nor Meg wanted to do anything like lead a low key life with Harry doing some job, as William did...

The other point is that although Meghan said in the interview the discussion had went back 2 years, she also said in the interview that they were married in the garden 3 days before the actual wedding with no witnesses, they just phoned up the Archbishop of Canterbury and arranged it, recollections may vary as they say.

 

[Denville]

The other point is that although Meghan said in the interview the discussion had went back 2 years, she also said in the interview that they were married in the garden 3 days before the actual wedding with no witnesses, they just phoned up the Archbishop of Canterbury and arranged it, recollections may vary as they say.

True, they said far too damn much and when you do that, you're apt to get caught out in discrepancies.
But I think that they HAD to say that they had discussed things going back a long way because there were accusations that they had blindsided C and the queen in 2020 and sprung this plan on them. So they had to say "no, we always said we weren't too happy and we discussed these issues with the queen from the time we were married."
the press were saying that if they didn't want to take the job, why did they take the title and the fancy wedding.. so they had to claim that they hadn't done it like that.
but of course discussing this stuff going back to 2018 kind of throws doubt ont thier claim that they were devoted to the job and that it was only the unkind treatment of the Press that drove them in the past year to want to walk out.

 

[Moran]

Maybe I’m incorrect, but weren’t they offered an apartment at Kensington ? And turned it down?

I'm not quite sure what exactly transpired. There were talks about a Kensington apartment and even some renovations, I think, and then they got Frogmore. I think it all happened around the time of the (in)famous Australian tourney.


TBH, in the wake of everything that happened (Knauf's 2018 emails about unacceptable behavior towards staff during this tour and Harry's frantic attempts to make it look like there was no other reason to dislike them after this tour besides pure envy at Meghan's colossal success, which he wanted to make out look unprecedented and dwarfing everyone else's ever, the supposed change of plans re housing, the way they left for Canada and returned without Archie, only to post a message in which they had no intention to leave royal life but work and be HIHO and particularly the conversations with Quibi which Harry and Meghan didn't even try to hide despite the fact that working with such a platform goes against every convention, the tastleless attack on titled members of the RF who work for themselves and not the Crown), I'm not at all sure the RF was so shocked and devastated to see them go.


I believe they overestimated their own importance, threw hissy fits over taking a second place to more senior members of the family (Meghan who suffered so much at being pushed back never told us how silly it was to push Eugenie's wedding back to accommodate Harry and hers and always pushed forth before Harry and even TQ.) I suspect that since these months of negotiations, in which they weren't getting what they wanted, they told the family outright that it should bow to all their demands or else they'd leave and the RF would lose its brightest stars who had a bright Hollywood future ahead of them. And they were shocked when they received a "Very well then, should we book you the tickets or do you know how to?" Hence the ill-worded, ill-sounded HIHO message, a last attempt to force the RF's hand into giving them what they wanted by making it seem that they had reached an agreement already and banking on the assumption that the RF wouldn't dare suggest they're liars publicly.


Something did happen around the time when their housing changed and I don't think it was good.


ETA: The RF might be saddened and Charles even devastated by the way the personal relationship disintegrated but I believe that in their working capacity, they were glad they wouldn't have to deal with an unpredictable pair who didn't know a thing but was certain it could and should change the monarchy in the best way possible. Their way.


Given the way trouble seemed to follow Harry and Meghan whenever they went abroad to represent the monarchy, I can only think it was reasonable of the RF to make sure that they weren't recognized as its representatives anymore - no HRH for anything of substance save for a headline or as it was, walking behind the coffin, no royal patronages, no honorary military ranks for Harry. It was just made over time, so it wouldn't fuel into their victim narrative.

 

[intothesea]

Nepal

The Nepal comments were the most surprising to me. I’m sad he keeps going after his family, but now he’s really burning bridges. If he ever returned, even half in-half out, why would the government ever send him as the ambassador of goodwill? They’d be foolish to, for now we know within a year or so, Harry could once again open his mouth and say, “they sent me to this country, I had to go” with such disdain that it would be incredibly embarrassing. He’s basically condemning himself to a life of a royal penning articles for charity or at planning for Invictus at a desk if he was ever to return to the UK.

Then, I realize he and Meghan are seen as charity do-ers currently in the US, but if I were one of those charities I’d be privately questioning how serious he was as an advocate. If this trend continues, those private thoughts may become public and it may be hard for him to maintain his seat on boards and being a spokesperson for worthy causes.

 

[Alisa]

Harry said that it was after the Australian tour that things really start to change in terms of the family's and the firm's attitude towards the couple.

The family was welcoming towards Meghan. Recall Harry reportedly saying that the "RF was the family Meghan never had ". So apparently there was goodwill towards the couple up to a certain point.

 

[muriel]

The family was welcoming towards Meghan. Recall Harry reportedly saying that the "RF was the family Meghan never had ". So apparently there was goodwill towards the couple up to a certain point.

And the obvious question to follow is what H&M might have done to antagonise the BRF in their entirety after that? What we do know is that the press narrative around Meghan did turn after the tour.

 

[AC21091968]

And the obvious question to follow is what H&M might have done to antagonise the BRF in their entirety after that? What we do know is that the press narrative around Meghan did turn after the tour.

Yes, I remembered that after the Australian-New Zealand Pacific tour, the tabloid were spreading allegations/rumours about Meghan treating her staff badly and how some of them left/stop working with her as a consequence. This included the hot tea gate at Admiralty House. The Times only picked up the "bullying allegations" from former staff of the Sussexes (who came forward) on March this year, which was the article written by Valentine Low.

I'm not sure if this (bullying allegation) correlates or even relevant to the relationship between the Sussexes and other royal family members. However, I could imagine some royal family members being upset with Meghan on the way she treated Palace staff (if the mistreatment of staffs stories are true).

 

[Mirabel]

Then spare a thought for the twin sons of Turnip Toffs Rose Hanbury and husband David, Marquess of Cholmondeley. These boys were delivered by C section, so no “first born” to inherit title and lands. Who would be heir? Why, the one who weighed more of course. Think the future holds any resentment for these siblings?

But again, how else could they choose? I think the theory at the time was the heavier twin was probably conceived first.

What it comes down to is that only one person can inherit the title.
Just as only one can wear the crown.

Birth order may seem unfair, but a decision must be made somewhere along the line.

 

[Claire]

And the obvious question to follow is what H&M might have done to antagonise the BRF in their entirety after that? What we do know is that the press narrative around Meghan did turn after the tour.

I suspect that is when Harry and Meghan gave the family their list of demands. And I use those words as that is that the palace staff call it. They came back from Australia - beaming with their popularity and celebrity and then pretty much said what they wanted as they saw the family not been able to go on without them and that brand. One day we might find out what those demands were. Harry firmly believes that he was right in asking for them and the Queen and palace believes that they were right in saying no. Either way - unless the demands/requests are made public we are in the dark.

And yes - I believe there was a list of demands before the "we are leaving" list of demands posted on Royal Sussex.

 

[Heavs]

Yes, I remembered that after the Australian-New Zealand Pacific tour, the tabloid were spreading allegations/rumours about Meghan treating her staff badly and how some of them left/stop working with her as a consequence. This included the hot tea gate at Admiralty House. The Times only picked up the "bullying allegations" from former staff of the Sussexes (who came forward) on March this year, which was the article written by Valentine Low.

I'm not sure if this (bullying allegation) correlates or even relevant to the relationship between the Sussexes and other royal family members. However, I could imagine some royal family members being upset with Meghan on the way she treated Palace staff (if the mistreatment of staffs stories are true).

The Pacific tour was also when they announced the pregnancy at Eugenie's wedding, which didn't go down well by all accounts both with the royals and some of the public. Combined with increasing rumours of things like the tea, and her security officers and staff leaving it was a perfect storm of BTS issues but wasn't directly related to jealousy over their success.

It's also possible that after the successful (to the public anyway) tour they started trying to flex their wings and do more commercial and political stuff. They met with Quibi a couple of months after, which would coinside with staff apparently tearing their hair out because they didn't know what was going on. Also seeing how popular their were they bought into their own hype and started talking about wanting their own court etc.

The Cambridges also had a very successful tour to Pakistan at the same time as the Sussexes. Perhaps it was suggested that (as is usually supposed to happen) that they make sure the two couples don't overlap again so as not to outshine the future King and Queen and that comment went down like a lead balloon.

Their may well also have been annoyance and jealousy there but I don't think it's all down to "Meghan was too perfect for them to deal with" which is how Harry genuinely seems to see it from the clips of Oprah.

 

[Ariel]

Royals or not, people have the right to their privacy and to deal with their family problems in private and not in the spotlight. Shame on Harry to cause distress to his “beloved” grandmother on her most difficult times after her husband died. I don’t think he is doing good to the mental health campaign unless the goal is to look for revenge against them, which will make things worse for everyone at the end. I’m not going to watch or pay appletv for such nonsense and disgraceful behavior.

 

[Betsypaige]

I don't necessarily expect him to remember things from when he was 4 or before but there are photos of them riding together when he was 10-11, not to mention, hiking, horse riding, canoeing, sailing, playing football, skiing. And I don't believe it was for the cameras. There are things they can criticise Charles for I'm sure but outdoor pursuits with his sons isn't one of them.

He also mentioned it twice *after* the media printed the proof he was wrong so he's sticking to his guns about something that was factually wrong. Several things that have been proved actually wrong so it makes everything else extremely suspect.



I know. He doesn't seem to say what he wanted instead, just that everyone was "forcing" him to be the family yes man when he wasn't. He's coming across as someone who quit his job (Army) decided to work for the family business and then started complaining when he realised he'd actually have to do some work instead of showing up to collect his payslip every once in a while and smile.

I don't know why he singled out Nepal of all places when he had a personal connection there and stayed longer than planned to help privately. Maybe because his other trip in 2016 was to the Caribbean and if he complained about that he would be accused of anti black racism?

From watching the clips and reading transcripts he also doesn't seem to make any connection to being "burned out" on "work" whilst actively in addiction or that his family would have been besides themselves with worry that he wasn't getting help or it and his behaviour/attitude to them would have been terrible, as it is for most addicts. Assuming what he says is true.

In those photos, Harry always looked genuinely happy - it’s impossible for me to reconcile his comments now with photos then.

Right, nor does he mention what others were asked to do. Didn’t Harry ever think that it was a compliment when he was asked to go to Nepal or other places ? He was considered good with people, they liked him...and often times they really needed him. I wasn’t familiar with his personal connection to Nepal until reading it here, but that makes it worse. It also confirms that H is just saying things without putting much thought in them -people can obviously remember his connection to Nepal, the same way they can remember his riding bikes with his dad. So, either H has forgotten these things (which, nope) or he thinks no one will remember or care (also nope). It seems like he subconsciously expects people to pick up on these inconsistencies ...Nothing else makes sense. In a way, maybe he’s crying out for help.

The Nepal comments were the most surprising to me. I’m sad he keeps going after his family, but now he’s really burning bridges. If he ever returned, even half in-half out, why would the government ever send him as the ambassador of goodwill? They’d be foolish to, for now we know within a year or so, Harry could once again open his mouth and say, “they sent me to this country, I had to go” with such disdain that it would be incredibly embarrassing. He’s basically condemning himself to a life of a royal penning articles for charity or at planning for Invictus at a desk if he was ever to return to the UK.

.

Not only why would the government send Harry, but why would any other government ask for Harry, knowing what he’s said about people who are far less privileged than he ? His comments have been strikingly out of touch and insensitive.

I don’t know what these were for, but these videos made me so happy. William and Harry were so relaxed, so glad to share stories of their father. I want this Harry back....I don’t mean he had to be the fun guy all the time, I just want the man who obviously loves his pa. This is so pure

https://twitter.com/x/status/1396581205999489026

https://twitter.com/x/status/1396582609992536065

https://twitter.com/x/status/1396583874587766791

 

[Alison H]

He did seem really happy. That moment when he was racing Usain Bolt and he set off early made everyone laugh, and both men seemed to be having so much fun. Maybe it was all an act, but it certainly seemed completely natural. I'm finding it very hard to reconcile that Harry, from only 5 years ago, with the Harry who seems so full of anger and hatred and bitterness and whose main aim in life seems to be hurting his own family. If something bad had happened to him in the meantime, it'd make sense, but, instead, he's got married, become a father, and has a second child on the way.

 

[Denville]

In thSo, either H has forgotten these things (which, nope) or he thinks no one will remember or care (also nope). It seems like he subconsciously expects people to pick up on these inconsistencies ...Nothing else makes sense. In a way, maybe he’s crying out for help.



Not only why would the government send Harry, but why would any other government ask for Harry, knowing what he’s said about people who are far less privileged than he ? His comments have been strikingly out of touch and insensitive.

yes those remarks are goiing to be a problem for him. I think that they might well go against him in terms of charity work in the US too.. charities may well feel "how do we know he's not secretly annoyed at having to do this boring work but is doing it for selfish reasons.." and what if he comes out with some such remarks publicly about OUR charity....
I dont know if the Brit Press really got cooler towards H from the time of the tours, I think there was unkind coverage during the courtship.. but I think that once Meg was engaged, the Press were reasonably favourable to her.. but if it IS true that Harry and Meg started to make demands, on the grounds that they had been so successful and popular on the tours, (and that began to sour the Press on them because I guess the Press were aware of rumors' of something happening behind the scenes)well this remark by Harry about his previous royal tours is going to come back and bite him.
If he didn't like doing the Nepal and other tours before he was married, how do we know that he really liked the ones with Meg?
Was all the smiling and dancing and so on fake? How did he expect the RF to give in to his demands when he has admitted that he was faking it, when he did his earlier royal work? How can he say "Meg and I deserve special treatment because look how much we were admired during the tours abroad", when he has also said "I didn't want to do the tours i was asked to do, and I was miserable and angry.. and I didn't like having to mix with all those plebs..."

 

[Heavs]

yes those remarks are goiing to be a problem for him. I think that they might well go against him in terms of charity work in the US too.. charities may well feel "how do we know he's not secretly annoyed at having to do this boring work but is doing it for selfish reasons.." and what if he comes out with some such remarks publicly about OUR charity....

He basically blasts two things he claimed were very important to him and what he wants to build his new life on: humanitarianism and veterans there, so it might well bite him in the ass. Especially because in one of those videos from Afghanistan he turns around and points to a Gurkha and talks about how incredible they are and that "this guy here personally saved my life" and now he's complaining about having to go and help them rebuild their lives and celebrate 200 years of their service.

He was even made an honorary Gurkha: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...kha-fearsome-warriors-served-Afghanistan.html

So much fir that. Although he was singing a different tune when he talked about his Nepal trip just 8 months ago so he clearly isn't thinking longterm, just moaning.

Any charity would be wary that if he's having a bad day he might start complaining about them next.

 

[Denville]

well I've always thought that Harry had a bad habit of speaking without thinking and he said silly things at times. I remember a few years ago he was visiting somewhere poor, and he said that he had always wanted to be one of the bad boys.. and while that was not that bad, it was foolish. It might encourage kids who were poor and had few options to try and join gangs as a way out of the ghetto. And same in a way with his remark about Meg finding the Royal family were "the family she'd never had".. when she has a very good and loving mother. (and that remark now seems very silly).
But I thought that these were just foolish remarks that everyone makes at times.. but the Nepal and "hating to have to go on tours" has shown a darker side to his habit of saying foolish things.
It really tears a whole in the "Harry is a warm hearted guy" image and makes people wonder. I can't belleive that charities wont feel a bit uneasy about him.. wondering what he might come out with if he has some trauma in his liefe in a year or 2 and does another "therapy talk"....

 

[Alison H]

Harry's narrative seems to be that his entire life's been like that of a child in some bleak Victorian novel. I'm amazed that he hasn't claimed he was kept locked in an attic or only allowed to eat gruel. He's rewritten his childhood, so that it was all doom and gloom - no-one ever rode a bicycle with him, etc. And he's rewritten his time as a working royal, saying that he hated it all, even though he looks quite happy on the footage from the time. I just don't know what he hopes to achieve by it. Like Betsypaige said, I wish we could have the old Harry back.

 

[Moran]

It really tears a whole in the "Harry is a warm hearted guy" image and makes people wonder. I can't belleive that charities wont feel a bit uneasy about him.. wondering what he might come out with if he has some trauma in his liefe in a year or 2 and does another "therapy talk"....

If in all this the RF comes across badly as sending poor unwilling Harry where he doesn't want to be and they knew he didn't want to be there, then they come across even worse for the people in need by sending them someone who didn't want to be there. Was it so hard to find someone willing? Perhaps Eugenie could have taken a week off her gallery? She might not be a war veteran but I think she would have gone without envying the people she was meeting.


So much about the RF image in this. But imagine you're a charity and employ Harry AFTER you know how he feels about those less fortunate. That would be incredibly arrogant and ill-advised of anyone. And they don't even have the excuse the RF can cling onto: Recollections may vary. At the time, we didn't know our beloved Harry was so unhappy and we'd NEVER insult people in need by knowingly sending them soneone unwilling. The word KNOWINGLY would be a massive problem

 

[Denville]

Harry's narrative seems to be that his entire life's been like that of a child in some bleak Victorian novel. I'm amazed that he hasn't claimed he was kept locked in an attic or only allowed to eat gruel. He's rewritten his childhood, so that it was all doom and gloom - no-one ever rode a bicycle with him, etc. And he's rewritten his time as a working royal, saying that he hated it all, even though he looks quite happy on the footage from the time. I just don't know what he hopes to achieve by it. Like Betsypaige said, I wish we could have the old Harry back.

That's the trouble though. Some reporters have said this.. that they miss the old jolly Harry.. and people have said "But no, poor Harry....he wasn't really jolly, he was unhappy and lonely and he didn't like royal life".
But apart from a tiny minority of people, everyone has to do things they dont like, work at jobs that are difficult and so on. And Harry seems to have become more depressed and more openly unhappy SINCE he got married. But surely, he was on a good wicket there. He was married to a girl he loved who loved him. He had been allowed to marry where his heart led.. not pushed into a suitable marriage or told he could not marry a divorced woman etc. He had a baby coming.. and he was busy with his royal work.. and instead of being happier, he was it seems more miserable and depressed and now, it seems bubbling up with increasing anger....
Instead of rejoicing that he had good health, no money worries.. and a job where he was liked, where he got to travel and do good, and with a wife who also wanted to do good, he was angry and msiserable....
Now, he said he did'nt like that life and he wanted to leave.. so he left.. and now he's STILL Angry and miserable?

 

[Betsypaige]

He did seem really happy. That moment when he was racing Usain Bolt and he set off early made everyone laugh, and both men seemed to be having so much fun. Maybe it was all an act, but it certainly seemed completely natural. I'm finding it very hard to reconcile that Harry, from only 5 years ago, with the Harry who seems so full of anger and hatred and bitterness and whose main aim in life seems to be hurting his own family. If something bad had happened to him in the meantime, it'd make sense, but, instead, he's got married, become a father, and has a second child on the way.

I was specifically referring to his feelings for his father, but I think they must now be tied up with his possible general state of emotional unhappiness. As we see in these videos, Harry clearly speaks about his father affectionately, something he did other times after these were filmed. From reports, he and William have had up and down relationships with Charles - rather common with children and parents - in large part due to their messy childhood. Given that fact, I just don’t buy that Harry has buried all these feelings against his father: belief that C was a bad father, that he was ok allowing his sons to suffer, that he overall just didn’t treat he and William well at all. Neither boy seemed to have any problem expressing themselves to C, arguing with him, so Harry all of a sudden deciding to unburden himself of these repressed emotions only after he’s left is rather convenient.

I maintain that Harry is insecure, and that is why he was envious of William's place in the hierarchy - not because he wanted to be king, but because he got more attention, more time with his father and grandmother. It’s why he badly wanted that court of his own at Windsor, and why he built up a rage about being financially cut off by Charles. That’s why he comes across as unhappy despite getting married, having a child and having another child on the way. These things are wonderful, but they can’t make up for internalized, deep seated unhappiness. Yet, was H unhappy before now? Whatever insecurities he had about his standing in the family, H always came off as genuine and genuinely happy, not as someone who was repressing so many emotions. I think Meghan encouraged these insecurities to the point where H did build up resentment towards his father (doesn’t love or value me as much as he does W), brother (he’s more loved and valued) and even grandmother/Monarchy (W got more time with her, he - H- didn’t get his own court).

Interestingly...

Director of TheMeYouCan'tSee claims that Harry "volunteered" and was "game for trying something" by exposing his anxiety to a therapist + millions. Recently he's had little perspective on how he comes across or who he hurts. Someone should have saved him from doing so.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1396460501186527233

 

[Claire]

Sorry - I think that the time is gone for the Harry we liked to come out of the cupboard, if he was ever truly that person. I wonder if he is a better actor then his wife at this point.
I just shake my head - he is in his mid thirty's it is not the time to have a teenage angst tantrum about the jealous towards his brother. He really needs to emotionally grow up now.

 

[Erin9]

The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 4: April 2021 -

Royals or not, people have the right to their privacy and to deal with their family problems in private and not in the spotlight. Shame on Harry to cause distress to his “beloved” grandmother on her most difficult times after her husband died. I don’t think he is doing good to the mental health campaign unless the goal is to look for revenge against them, which will make things worse for everyone at the end. I’m not going to watch or pay appletv for such nonsense and disgraceful behavior.

This is something I’ve been thinking. I strongly believe in getting mental health care when you need it. Absolutely.

But if Harry and Meghan were my....introduction of sorts to the benefits of it, I’m not sure I’d walk away thinking how helpful it is. They come across to me as angry, vengeful, unable to take responsibility for their role in things (and they’re not blameless in this mess), and lacking in compassion and kindness to their own family. Publicly dragging your family through the mud repeatedly is not good either IMO. This is what you get out of mental health help? I know this isn’t what is supposed to be my takeaway- but that’s what I’m getting. I’m shaking my head on this.

Yes- I read an article yesterday that HM is deeply hurt by what Harry’s said lately. While I think you have to take those kinds of articles with a grain of salt generally....I don’t doubt she’s hurt. Bad enough he and Meghan’s first interview was in the last weeks of Philip’s life, but the hammering keeps on shortly after his death. It’s unbelievable.

I’m not paying to watch this either. It is a disgrace IMO.

 

[Betsypaige]

That's the trouble though. Some reporters have said this.. that they miss the old jolly Harry.. and people have said "But no, poor Harry....he wasn't really jolly, he was unhappy and lonely and he didn't like royal life".
But apart from a tiny minority of people, everyone has to do things they dont like, work at jobs that are difficult and so on. And Harry seems to have become more depressed and more openly unhappy SINCE he got married. But surely, he was on a good wicket there. He was married to a girl he loved who loved him. He had been allowed to marry where his heart led.. not pushed into a suitable marriage or told he could not marry a divorced woman etc. He had a baby coming.. and he was busy with his royal work.. and instead of being happier, he was it seems more miserable and depressed and now, it seems bubbling up with increasing anger....
Instead of rejoicing that he had good health, no money worries.. and a job where he was liked, where he got to travel and do good, and with a wife who also wanted to do good, he was angry and msiserable....
Now, he said he did'nt like that life and he wanted to leave.. so he left.. and now he's STILL Angry and miserable?

I want to make clear because I think Allison misinterpreted my comments in my post with the videos....I miss the Harry who clearly loved his father, the man we see with William laughing about how Charles embarrassed them during school plays, or how his work was piled up to the extent Harry couldn’t get to his desk. I don’t want to say I miss the happy-go-lucky Harry, because many people - and he’s probably one of them - use that kind of clownish personality to cover up a serious nature, or one filled with pain. I suspect he DID use good cheer and antics to deal with his grief over losing his mum.

I dealt with your second point in a previous post.

 

[Heavs]

Sorry - I think that the time is gone for the Harry we liked to come out of the cupboard, if he was ever truly that person. I wonder if he is a better actor then his wife at this point.
I just shake my head - he is in his mid thirty's it is not the time to have a teenage angst tantrum about the jealous towards his brother. He really needs to emotionally grow up now.

You're right of course, I don't think he can truly be that person again, if he ever wants to be or ever even was that person. And people do put on facades for personal and professional reasons.

I know there's always another side to any royal or celebrity that we don't see.

I know ELF had a large hand in how Harry was perceived but I struggle to think it was *all* an act and that he was totally miserable and hated everyone he was meeting all the time. That he never got on with his father or any of it.

We know he's changed his tune between now and 4 years ago when he was specifically asked if Meghan got him in to therapy and he said "No, William". He didn't pretend to like all the parts of his life and openly said "no one wants to be King" and admitted to struggles with his life or if this was what he wanted (he talked about going off to Africa) etc but he didn't appear to hate all of it all the time like he apparently does when looking back now. He also appeared to have a genuinely loving relationship with his father and now he's basically accused him of always being abusive.

And he just doesn't appear to be happier now, he looks ever more miserable at every appearance and is doing and saying a lot of things that would have any therapist that had his best interests at heart encouraging him to do the opposite.

 

[camelot23ca]

But again, how else could they choose? I think the theory at the time was the heavier twin was probably conceived first.

What it comes down to is that only one person can inherit the title.
Just as only one can wear the crown.

Birth order may seem unfair, but a decision must be made somewhere along the line.

Off topic, but I hadn’t heard about these twins! They really picked the heavier twin as the heir? Wouldn’t the firstborn be the child who was literally born first? Babies come out one at a time during a C-section, so there would still be an older twin.

 

[Denville]

I want to make clear because I think Allison misinterpreted my comments in my post with the videos....I miss the Harry who clearly loved his father, the man we see with William laughing about how Charles embarrassed them during school plays, or how his work was piled up to the extent Harry couldn’t get to his desk. I
I dealt with your second point in a previous post.

Are you so sure he loved his father? I think he's got anger against William too.. possibly the queen as well but he's not going to say that because she's 95 and the top lady.
I feel that he is pretty capable of hiding his true feelings..and that it seems to me that it suited him 3 years ago to be seen with Charles, all friendly and saying "Thanks Pa" when Charles was doing what he wanted.. but the disconnect between Harry who seemed warm and friendly, and Harry who says he hated the royal job and didn't like meeting people.. is so big.. that I think its possible that "the real Harry" didn't care for his dad, that he had resentment over C's treatment of Diana, over what he probably perceived as neglgect when he was a kid, and now over Charles finally saying "No" to him....

 

[Denville]

Off topic, but I hadn’t heard about these twins! They really picked the heavier twin as the heir? Wouldn’t the firstborn be the child who was literally born first? Babies come out one at a time during a C-section, so there would still be an older twin.

Yes Im surprised at that. As they dont pick the babies out at the same time, then surely the one who was grabbed out first, is the elder....

 

[Hallo girl]

I still find it hard to believe that 3 years after that wonderful day in Windsor this is where they are.
I still firmly believe that Meghan came in with an idea ( I am not using the word plan as I have before because that can sound devious) of what she thought things would be like and what they could do. All positive thoughts to continue what she had started in a smaller way but her ideas linked to Harry's profile and contacts could make a huge difference.
They could become philanthropists like the Clooneys, Gates and Obamas.
IMO the problem was she didn't understand the business of the royal family and its workings. The restrictions, the advisors etc etc, the people posters on here like to call the old men in grey suits. Meghan was used to agents and PR who want you out there, the old no publicity is bad publicity adage.
She possibly found it strange when she was being advised to not give Oprah an interview pre wedding, or in the room with her when she was speaking to Oprah , instead of seeing that as protecting her she appears to have viewed it as silencing her.
The pecking order within the family, not just between William and Harry but the line of them. They arrive in a certain order, as when they leave.

From Meghans own words she couldn't understand why she had to curtsy to Harrys grandmother , she just didnt get it. It is respect for her position.
The queen is one of the richest women in the world, but she uses tupperware boxes to keep the breakfast cereal fresh. As Sarah Ferguson found out there is no money tree at the bottom of the garden.

I think we also have to clear on what ' friends say ' or ' sources say ' and what is actual fact. I remember reading when the announcement was made about them moving to Frogmore, that it was because they wanted a quieter life, now for the life of me I cannot recall if that was part of the official statement or on here, or Social media but it became ' fact' . It then became a ' fact' that they were not offered a decent home to live in.

In the Oprah interview Meghan did make a throwaway remark about their small home, I think she was possibly referring to Nottingham cottage.

I think what I am trying to say is that we have long long discussions on here about the couple and at times we are debating or even arguing over rumours or 'sources said'.

Having said that they clearly attached themselves to certain reporters so from now on anything they say will be taken as from the couple themselves.
The problem with that is that from Meghan and Harrys own mouths there were inconsistencies so I am not sure whether we will ever be sure of the facts.
Just my two pennyworth.