The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 4: April-June 2021

[Denville]

That may be their intent as of this moment, but it doesn't really solve anything for them. I don't think anyone seriously believes they thought they were doing the world in general a favor by dishing about the royals on Oprah. They did it because their business model (such as it is) requires them to stay in the headlines. That hasn't changed, nor has the fact that it will be difficult for them to stay in the headlines long-term without continuing to dish about the royals in the media. But if they keep that up, they aren't going to be doing things like Trooping of the Colour and vacationing with the Queen, because there will still be a rift. If Harry wants the pseudo-part-time-royal thing to happen, he's going to need to make some lifestyle compromises, and he's going to need to persuade Meghan to go along with them.

Honestly, while the queen will be pleasant, and says she regards them as members of her family, I don't tink that they will be invited to Trooping the colour on a regular basis. They will be invited home at times and she'll wnat to see Archie and the baby..
As for Charles I think the fact that he did refuse H's phone calls for a bit, shows that he found H impossible to satisfy....

 

[Erin9]

The Duke & Duchess of Sussex & Family - General News April 2021 -

Thanks for posting.

Both speakers are under labouring under the misapprehension that this is solely a family matter. It isn't. The reputation of the British monarchy & the UK have been tarnished by h&m's interview. The damage is serious & probably long lasting. These are real world consequences & go far beyond a family tiff.

The uncomfortable reality for Harry Windsor is that Prince Philip's reputation was traduced for hours on social media after the interview until Winfrey made it public that he was not the individual concerned.

Yes. And furthermore Philip died shortly after this disaster of an interview. The sad fact is: In the last weeks of his life he got drug under the bus for hours courtesy of this entirely unnecessary interview until Harry issued the statement.

And....in the last weeks of Philip’s life his family had to deal with this interview. And likely try to shield him from the worst of it, if possible.

How awful.

I certainly sympathize with Harry on the loss of his beloved grandfather, thought his statement was touching and lovely, but that interview showed incredibly poor judgment IMO.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

A genuine question.

Why do you think this? Is the enormity of the damage from their interview not understood in the US perhaps? After all the US media seem extraordinarily one sided in their opinion.

I agree that the reaction of the media has been very different in the U.S. However, first and foremost, Harry loves his family and wants to find a way a forward. I doubt the Queen or Charles would refuse to let them attend an event like the Trooping of the Color or the Jubilee. A few weeks ago, I would have believed that they would get a very chilly reception from the other royals whenever they came. But I think now more than ever, the family and even the public will pull together to support the Queen.

The more cynical side to me also thinks that they need the royal family more than the royal family needs them. I agree that the public has long memories and Harry and Meghan will probably never be completed forgiven or trusted. But there are a series of events that they will want to be part of to raise their profile for their "brand".

To do that, they will have to be at least tolerated. No one will jeer their presence as long as they are with the Queen. Appearing with the Queen in a few major public events (with minor royals and nonroyal family) and visiting her at Balmoral this summer, spending Christmas with her, etc. is the only way they will ever be tolerated in Britain.

I fully admit that I may be misreading the situation and am interested in hearing other people's thoughts.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

Can we not call Charles a pushover? Harry is his SON, of course he’s not going to want to inflame the situation. He’s pretty clearly not happy with him over the interview, and if it’s true he didn’t take calls from Harry for a brief time, that’s an indication he’s not pushover.

I called Charles a pushover because I think he did overindulge Harry (and William - who rose above it) Obviously, Charles was very angry when he refused to take Harry's calls, but I suspect that had more to do with Harry going completely off the rails. Harry can go too far with his father, but I think Charles tolerates a lot more than he should

 

[Denville]

I agree that the reaction of the media has been very different in the U.S. However, first and foremost, Harry loves his family and wants to find a way a forward. I doubt the Queen or Charles would refuse to let them attend an event like the Trooping of the Color or the Jubilee. A few weeks ago, I would have believed that they would get a very chilly reception from the other royals whenever they came. But I think now more than ever, the family and even the public will pull together to support the Queen.

The more cynical side to me also thinks that they need the royal family more than the royal family needs them. I agree that the public has long memories and Harry and Meghan will probably never be completed forgiven or trusted. But there are a series of events that they will want to be part of to raise their profile for their "brand".

To do that, they will have to be at least tolerated. No one will jeer their presence as long as they are with the Queen. Appearing with the Queen in a few major public events (with minor royals and nonroyal family) and visiting her at Balmoral this summer, spending Christmas with her, etc. is the only way they will ever be tolerated in Britain.

I fully admit that I may be misreading the situation and am interested in hearing other people's thoughts.

I can't see it. I think they'll be forgiven but I can't see them coming back, when they are settled in USA for Christmas... and I think the RF will be wary even if tolerant. Of course I coudld be wrong. IM sure the queen doesn't want a rift or the appearance of a rift.. but I think it will take a long time before things are better...

 

[Hallo girl]

I can't see it. I think they'll be forgiven but I can't see them coming back, when they are settled in USA for Christmas... and I think the RF will be wary even if tolerant. Of course I coudld be wrong. IM sure the queen doesn't want a rift or the appearance of a rift.. but I think it will take a long time before things are better...

I would agree, I think trust has gone, IMO there would always be a doubt of how much would end up on Gayle Kings desk.

I could see in a couple of years time them being invited back for the trooping of the colour but not in the ceremony just as a guest.

The underlying threat ' of proof ' held by Meghan that her ' friends' have spoken about. All that casts a shadow plus she was specific with her comments about Kate, I think there is too much there for the moment, I am not saying they would not keep in touch but I cannot see them becoming involved with ceremonial events.

The Queen is going to lean on both Charles and William now , with the latter having a great deal of influence. I will be interested to see how long Harry stays after the funeral. He is in isolation just now so will literally come out of that for the funeral, will not have much time to meet up with the others before Saturday.

 

[ACO]

I think it is hard to say what will happen. Things have shifted and who knows how any of them will feel in a few months, let alone a year from now. We have to step away from out own projected feelings about the situation.

Even now we have the likes of Camilla Tominey writing that she has sources saying that the brothers are talking while implying Kate is playing peacemaker.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...ker-william-harry-day-prince-philips-funeral/

How true is this? As with everything take it with a large grain of salt, but I do suspect that right now the focus on on keeping things civil and showing unity and support. Big events, especially tragic ones can change dynamics.

Only time will tell.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

... I will be interested to see how long Harry stays after the funeral. He is in isolation just now so will literally come out of that for the funeral, will not have much time to meet up with the others before Saturday.

I'm not sure that the length of stay is going to reveal much - Meghan is pregnant and he's going to want to get back to her.

 

[_Heather_]

I agree that the reaction of the media has been very different in the U.S. However, first and foremost, Harry loves his family and wants to find a way a forward. I doubt the Queen or Charles would refuse to let them attend an event like the Trooping of the Color or the Jubilee. A few weeks ago, I would have believed that they would get a very chilly reception from the other royals whenever they came. But I think now more than ever, the family and even the public will pull together to support the Queen.

The more cynical side to me also thinks that they need the royal family more than the royal family needs them. I agree that the public has long memories and Harry and Meghan will probably never be completed forgiven or trusted. But there are a series of events that they will want to be part of to raise their profile for their "brand".

To do that, they will have to be at least tolerated. No one will jeer their presence as long as they are with the Queen. Appearing with the Queen in a few major public events (with minor royals and nonroyal family) and visiting her at Balmoral this summer, spending Christmas with her, etc. is the only way they will ever be tolerated in Britain.

I fully admit that I may be misreading the situation and am interested in hearing other people's thoughts.

I simply don't see it happening. I honestly think that these two believe that they could use the RF as a springboard into whatever life they're hoping to create for themselves and then run with it on their own from there. I really don't see them coming back for Trooping the Colour, Christmas, or any other event other than possibly the Queen's funeral when that day comes and potentially Charles' coronation and even that I'm on the fence about. While I think the RF would be cool, polite, and professional in public, I doubt their reception in private would be very warm. And truthfully, while I'm sure Harry's family love him and his children, I think his attitude toward them is resentful, spiteful, and extremely problematic. Once HM is gone, I don't really see them ever coming back. I think she and the late DoE hold the last little bit of respect that Harry has for any of them. I agree entirely that they need the RF more than the RF need them but I don't believe for a second that they see it that way.

 

[Erin9]

The Duke & Duchess of Sussex & Family - General News April 2021 -

I can't see it. I think they'll be forgiven but I can't see them coming back, when they are settled in USA for Christmas... and I think the RF will be wary even if tolerant. Of course I coudld be wrong. IM sure the queen doesn't want a rift or the appearance of a rift.. but I think it will take a long time before things are better...

I think trust is likely to be an issue. Forgiving is one thing- really letting someone back into your life is another.

Whether Philip’s death coming so soon after the interview helps or hurts any potential reconciliation process is really hard to say. Could go either way IMO. Especially since he was slammed on social media for hours until Harry made the statement.

As for Harry and Meghan from a public Pov- I think everyone will support HM’s decisions- but whether or not that ever includes something like Trooping (and whether they’d even want to attend) is hard to say IMO. The mood of the public may be a factor in public events too.

 

[Heavs]

I think it is hard to say what will happen. Things have shifted and who knows how any of them will feel in a few months, let alone a year from now. We have to step away from out own projected feelings about the situation.

Even now we have the likes of Camilla Tominey writing that she has sources saying that the brothers are talking while implying Kate is playing peacemaker.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...ker-william-harry-day-prince-philips-funeral/

How true is this? As with everything take it with a large grain of salt, but I do suspect that right now the focus on on keeping things civil and showing unity and support. Big events, especially tragic ones can change dynamics.

Only time will tell.

Camilla Tominey does have sources and I think any official that is talking would be keen to emphasis that the royals are going to put on a show of unity and support for the Queen. That's been 100% the party line since last Friday. I believe they've probably spoken on the phone etc. Hopefully that doesn't end up with Gayle King in the next few days. I doubt it's particularly in depth because of that possibility until they've had a chance to see each other face to face.

The ruminations of Kate wanting to play peacemaker seem less sure and they're included in the section that has the news that Meghan's friends say she suddenly wants to make up, but we'll see. There will be many of these types of articles and the complete opposite written by the same people over the next few days, weeks, months.

I think there's a way to go before the damage is actually mended as opposed to being put aside to focus on what needs to be done right now.

 

[Denville]

True, I think they'l come back for private visits rather than for public events...and I suppose gradually if things improve, there will be more visits...

 

[Osipi]

From my perspective, I don't see Harry and Meghan "fitting in" with the family as much in the future as it was possible to be in the past. This is a family that is constantly busy and on the go with "Firm" business and that is an area where Harry and Meghan will be absolutely excluded from here on out. This isn't a family that gets together on weekends or for birthdays and BBQs (save for Balmoral) but rarely actually do have private interactions due to heavy schedules that they all have.

They may visit the Queen at Balmoral but it'll be a scheduled time when the Sussex family are the only ones on the guest list. They may attend Trooping the Color but then part ways with the family as they all have their other plans. They may visit Charles and Camilla at CH or Birkhall but I do believe that the wider family interactions are going to be few and far between.

I, personally, really have started to look at both Harry and Meghan as part of the extended British Royal Family. They're related to them but they're not really involved with them as they once were and over time, I think Harry and Meghan are going to feel this division. As far as the British are concerned, Harry and Meghan now are to the BRF like Margaret's children are or Anne's children and their families. Related but not pertinent to the BRF and the work of the monarchy.

The Sussexes chose it to be this way. I just hope they can be happy with it.

ETA: The statement I've made about the family interactions on a private basis actually comes from a quote that Andrew made that's in the book "Our Queen" by Robert Hardman. Andrew tells of how little the "family" actually all gather together for something. ?

 

[_Heather_]

I would agree, I think trust has gone, IMO there would always be a doubt of how much would end up on Gayle Kings desk.

The underlying threat ' of proof ' held by Meghan that her ' friends' have spoken about. All that casts a shadow plus she was specific with her comments about Kate, I think there is too much there for the moment, I am not saying they would not keep in touch but I cannot see them becoming involved with ceremonial events.

I think these are two very good points. No matter how much you love someone if you believe that everything you say to them privately might end up as public information you are a lot more likely to keep your relationship strictly professional and very superficial. Much more along the lines of "how are the kids" and "nice weather we're having" than anything confidential and personal. And I don't really think anyone at all, including Harry and Meghan's biggest cheerleaders, could honestly keep a straight face right now while proclaiming that there's no reason at all to doubt their ability or desire to keep things to themselves.

As for the other, I suspect you're right. Maybe with time some of the hurt will fade but, at least for now, I suspect that there's far too much water under the bridge for those relationships to just be instantaneously better simply because the DoE has passed away.

 

[ACO]

Camilla Tominey does have sources and I think any official that is talking would be keen to emphasis that the royals are going to put on a show of unity and support for the Queen. That's been 100% the party line since last Friday. I believe they've probably spoken on the phone etc. Hopefully that doesn't end up with Gayle King in the next few days.

The ruminations of Kate wanting to play peacemaker seem less sure and they're included in the section that has the news that Meghan's friends say she suddenly wants to make up, but we'll see. There will be many of these types of articles and the complete opposite written by the same people over the next few days, weeks, months.

I think there's a way to go before the damage is actually mended as opposed to being put aside to focus on what needs to be done right now.

Well it doesn't need to be on Gayle King.... Tominey is already telling us. But I agree that we will be seeing these kind of articles going all week long.

I don't think anything will bne resolved this week but people are speaking of events months to a year from now. There is just no way we can see the future especially after a big personal event like a death occurs.

 

[Erin9]

I think there's a way to go before the damage is actually mended as opposed to being put aside to focus on what needs to be done right now.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Moran]

I think trust is likely to be an issue. Forgiving is one thing- really letting someone back into your life is another.

As I see it, forgiveness is hard to give when no one is asking for it. If anything, Harry and Meghan think they are the injured party, aka the side that can grant forgiveness.

 

[Erin9]

As I see it, forgiveness is hard to give when no one is asking for it. If anything, Harry and Meghan think they are the injured party, aka the side that can grant forgiveness.

That’s a good point.

 

[Fijiro]

So now it's going to be CamillaTomeny vs GayleKing now? How sad. Let the family mourn Prince Philip in peace.

 

[BritishRoyalist]

The one I feel saddest for in all of this is Archie and his soon-to-be-born Sister. Unless they move back to the U.K. they will never know Harry's side of the family (including Diana family) possibly seeing them at least once a year at most. Meghan doesn't talk to her dad or his side of the family and from what I can see she only talks to her Mom. I have not to head anything about her mom's side of the family.

They will only really have each other. They were taken away from what really was the only family they had.

 

[Somebody]

I agree that the reaction of the media has been very different in the U.S. However, first and foremost, Harry loves his family and wants to find a way a forward. I doubt the Queen or Charles would refuse to let them attend an event like the Trooping of the Color or the Jubilee. A few weeks ago, I would have believed that they would get a very chilly reception from the other royals whenever they came. But I think now more than ever, the family and even the public will pull together to support the Queen.

The more cynical side to me also thinks that they need the royal family more than the royal family needs them. I agree that the public has long memories and Harry and Meghan will probably never be completed forgiven or trusted. But there are a series of events that they will want to be part of to raise their profile for their "brand".

To do that, they will have to be at least tolerated. No one will jeer their presence as long as they are with the Queen. Appearing with the Queen in a few major public events (with minor royals and nonroyal family) and visiting her at Balmoral this summer, spending Christmas with her, etc. is the only way they will ever be tolerated in Britain.

I fully admit that I may be misreading the situation and am interested in hearing other people's thoughts.

No doubt they might want to be part of those events; but that isn't the same as the BRF allowing them to be part of them. Especially as they are most likely aware that part of the reason they want to participate is to raise their own profile.

If they are serious about amending rifts within their family; they might want to start with Meghan's father. Of course, any contact might end up in the media as her father might talk; but that is exactly the same position the BRF is in - as H&M might (have others) talk about that. So, if they show to be willing to take that risk and are able to heal that rift, that might show some real interest in healing family bonds - not just for the sake of their own profile but for the sake of genuine family relationships.

 

[Heavs]

So now it's going to be CamillaTomeny vs GayleKing now? How sad. Let the family mourn Prince Philip in peace.

But these things are "legitimate" news since Harry and Meghan decided to air their personal dirty laundry extremely publicly just a month ago, when Prince Philip himself was in hospital.

CT is just doing what every other royal report and many non royal reporters are doing, writing about the family dynamics going into the funeral in light of everything that's happened. She parroted the party line, that everyone is focused on a show of unity and fully supporting HM during this very difficult time.

Notice she didn't go into specifics and say "I personally talked to William and he said the talks were unproductive and he's angry because Harry really should be focused on X instead of Y. Why is no one talking about X?!"

 

[ladongas]

...

but I think it will take a long time before things are better...

When you have a 95 year old recently widowed relative, you really can’t wait a very long time to make things better... It may be now or never.

 

[ACO]

The one I feel saddest for in all of this is Archie and his soon-to-be-born Sister. Unless they move back to the U.K. they will never know Harry's side of the family (including Diana family) possibly seeing them at least once a year at most. Meghan doesn't talk to her dad or his side of the family and from what I can see she only talks to her Mom. I have not to head anything about her mom's side of the family.

They will only really have each other. They were taken away from what really was the only family they had.

How do we know they are not in contact with the Spencers? Harry has seemed to be very close to them. They were at his son's christening in fact. Living far away doesn't mean you can't have relationships. I think the Windsors and Spencers ate very different situations and relationships.

If they want a relationship with Archie and his sister they can want one.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

As I see it, forgiveness is hard to give when no one is asking for it. If anything, Harry and Meghan think they are the injured party, aka the side that can grant forgiveness.

But they may well be the injured party I think it's astounding how it seems to have been collectively decided on here that the BRF has done no wrong. There's no way of knowing the specifics of what's went down, but it's not lost on me how only one party seems to get the benefit of doubt.

 

[Moran]

But they may well be the injured party I think it's astounding how it seems to have been collectively decided on here that the BRF has done no wrong. There's no way of knowing the specifics of what's went down, but it's not lost on me how only one party seems to get the benefit of doubt.

They may well be the injured party, of course. The thing is, most of their complaints look childish to me. The ones that weren't disproven as factually wrong, I mean. The BRF might have done terrible things but this far, most of what I've heard from Harry and Meghan is the who made who cry, the "Meghan was left unprecedently unprotected against the tabloids" claim, "They won't give our child a title because of racism" and so on. If that's the worst Harry and Meghan have, I can't see them as the injured party but solely the injuring one.


ETA: The blame is never fully on one side, of course. But this far, what Harry and Meghan have presented doesn't strike me as a realistic reason for FF, let alone the interview.

 

[Osipi]

They may well be the injured party, of course. The thing is, most of their complaints look childish to me. The ones that weren't disproven as factually wrong, I mean. The BRF might have done terrible things but this far, most of what I've heard from Harry and Meghan is the who made who cry, the "Meghan was left unprecedently unprotected against the tabloids" claim, "They won't give our child a title because of racism" and so on. If that's the worst Harry and Meghan have, I can't see them as the injured party but solely the injuring one.

The most damage has been done by taking internal family problems and disagreements and hurt feelings into the public domain. That is blatantly trying to force public opinion in their favor against not only the British royal family but also the monarchy and it's "Firm".

Both Harry and William grew up with an idea of the "circle of trust" and had their own ways of determining if someone was to be included in that circle. Harry, himself, has violated something he had depended on as far as trust was concerned for most of his life. I can't see Harry ever being allowed into William's "circle of trust" ever again as once trust is destroyed, it's almost impossible to restore again. They may be civil towards one another but I don't see the Cambridges and the Sussexes having a close family relationship going forward. It's really kind of sad.

 

[Moran]

The most damage has been done by taking internal family problems and disagreements and hurt feelings into the public domain. That is blatantly trying to force public opinion in their favor against not only the British royal family but also the monarchy and it's "Firm".

Both Harry and William grew up with an idea of the "circle of trust" and had their own ways of determining if someone was to be included in that circle. Harry, himself, has violated something he had depended on as far as trust was concerned for most of his life. I can't see Harry ever being allowed into William's "circle of trust" ever again as once trust is destroyed, it's almost impossible to restore again. They may be civil towards one another but I don't see the Cambridges and the Sussexes having a close family relationship going forward. It's really kind of sad.

It is. That's why I find the talks about forgiveness so out of place. First, trust is very important for any of us but it's literally vital for the RF because most of us don't live our lives on the world stage. And second, Harry and Meghan don't seem to seek forgiveness which invalidates the whole premise of restoring trust.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

They may well be the injured party, of course. The thing is, most of their complaints look childish to me. The ones that weren't disproven as factually wrong, I mean. The BRF might have done terrible things but this far, most of what I've heard from Harry and Meghan is the who made who cry, the "Meghan was left unprecedently unprotected against the tabloids" claim, "They won't give our child a title because of racism" and so on. If that's the worst Harry and Meghan have, I can't see them as the injured party but solely the injuring one.

I don't think they were wrong in their claims that the firm wasn't exactly helpful to them. Let's also not pretend the allegations of racism don't run a lot deeper than "just" the claims regarding the titles... If you afford one party the benefit of doubt, it rings a bit hollow if you don't extend it to the other party as well.

 

[Betsypaige]

I think trust is likely to be an issue. Forgiving is one thing- really letting someone back into your life is another.

Whether Philip’s death coming so soon after the interview helps or hurts any potential reconciliation process is really hard to say. Could go either way IMO. Especially since he was slammed on social media for hours until Harry made the statement.

As for Harry and Meghan from a public Pov- I think everyone will support HM’s decisions- but whether or not that ever includes something like Trooping (and whether they’d even want to attend) is hard to say IMO. The mood of the public may be a factor in public events too.

For now, as to the rift, I’m only going to speak as to Charles, William and Harry as we simply don’t know enough regarding the rest of the BRF - and frankly, it’s the first two who the latter hurt the most.

As I spoke about above, Charles as father will badly want to start the healing process - between he and H and especially between his sons (he can control his part of his relationship with H, but he can’t control anything with regards to W and H). That means getting everyone to open up, to TALK - and that will be much easier in person. I think there has been a lot of miscommunication between all 3, to be honest (that is, between C and H and W and H). The goal wouldn’t be to reestablish trust - that can only happen over time, and organically - but rather at least a desire to heal and to reopen the lines of communication. I think they all need to at least remember that they do all love each other...and tell each other that.

Charles is probably less angry (not saying he wasn’t, though) than hurt, and William is probably more angry than hurt, so I think the C and H will be easier to heal than W and H. That’s ok - baby steps.

As to public functions, I think that will just be left, again, wide open. Even if the BRF never really feels the same about M again, as long as she’s married to H, they’ll still consider her part of the family. I suspect there will be a standing invitation to appear (not as they used to, of course). Whether they will, who knows? I do think at some point H would....and my gut says M might as well one day, but I’m not going to predict anything.