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  #1301  
Old 04-22-2021, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alisa View Post
Going private didn't help..they were basically ignored. That only left one option. Meghan tried to privately mend the relationship with her father as evidence by her letters, phone calls, and text messages to him. However, he admitted he wasn't trying to hear it.
There is another option: they could have let it go or maybe even examine their own actions to see if they are part of the problem.

Quote:

Many of the Sussexes grievances were not minor. A woman feeling suicidal and not being able to get the help she needs is not a minor. There was no grudge over who made who cry. The couple were simply upset over the comm dept refusing to speak out and deny the stories that were being aloud to continue in the media. If they had simply said thatcthe story was not true or that it did not happen. Many things would have been different. But it was allowed for the public to think that big bad Meghan bullied a much loved member of the royal family and made her cry.
There was nothing to lose by the time the interview was aired it had already been long decided that they were not coming back to the royal family.
With this major complaint, I would again point out that neither one of them examined how their own behavior contributed to the problems. Obviously you believe that the royal family stopped Meghan from getting help. On the other hand, I think that the primary responsibility to arrange for help for Meghan resides with her husband. They publicly trashed their own family because Harry is an ineffective, unloving husband.

With respect to the silly "who made whom cry" argument, I respectfully disagree that Meghan's version is accurate and that this issue should be considered major.
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  #1302  
Old 04-22-2021, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
There is another option: they could have let it go or maybe even examine their own actions to see if they are part of the problem.
Even if there were to examine their actions..that still wouldn't help in establishing the line of communication if it was cut off to begin with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
With this major complaint, I would again point out that neither one of them examined how their own behavior contributed to the problems. Obviously you believe that the royal family stopped Meghan from getting help.
I don't believe it was the family themself but the people working for them that were of no use in providing Meghan with help. Moreover, we have no other counter argument but what the couple themselves said. But we're all making assumptions and judgements based on that..so nothing new.

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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
On the other hand, I think that the primary responsibility to arrange for help for Meghan resides with her husband. They publicly trashed their own family because Harry is an ineffective, unloving husband.
.
"Ineffective"?, "unloving"?, yikes...thank goodness we heard from the Duchess ' mouth that he was anything but that. She called him her rock and thanks to him and a friend of Diana's Meghan was able to get the help she needed.

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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
With respect to the silly "who made whom cry" argument, I respectfully disagree that Meghan's version is accurate and that this issue should be considered major.
You may doubt Meghan's version of the event but you can't disagree as you were not there. The issue was major it perpetuated the character assassination of the Duchess. It should have been shot down from the begging.
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  #1303  
Old 04-22-2021, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
I agree.

I think they may have had conversations that were civil and involved Archie and that the last thing HM wants is for anything to happen to Meghan, but I don't buy for a second that there's any real closeness there.

The family knew Philip was on his death bed before the interview aired, they knew he wasn't likely to make it to his birthday and Harry and Meghan still went ahead with it. They then passed on more info they wanted out there via their friends and made what was already a very, very difficult few weeks even more difficult. Knowingly. If Harry can't see why that's a problem no one can help him. And that's before you get into the lasting consequences of the interview.

Given that they know they're leaking like sieves and might be recording conversations I doubt anything truly personal was discussed, nor do I think any of the family will have been particularly pleased with the sudden "Meghan was closest to Philip out of all of them! She sent personally selected flowers!" released right as the funeral was starting and after they'd had the chance to see tributes pouring in from all over the world.

Now they're releasing statements that Harry spent time with his grandmother (but *not* his father or brother) on HM's birthday. They aren't saying "we're going slow and building trust back up with her" they're trying to position her as their no 1 cheerleader in the family.

William/Charles = reports of reconciliation were wrong, reports of Harry writing a letter to his Dad wrong, reports of Kate playing peacemaker wrong, it will take ages to get anywhere. Harry felt ganged up on.

Queen = We've never stopped talking to her, Meghan/Archie has Zoomed with her several times, Harry has talked to her alone twice, we have no beef at all with her, she has no problem with us, she completely understand why Meghan couldn't be there even though they both wanted her to be...

They can't pretend that she's an old dear in a home and that trashing her life's work and every other person in her family doesn't affect her. Or try and co opt her in the same way they try to pretend that Diana isn't William's beloved mother as well.
Well said.

H and M care about appearances more than they do about people, IMO. Iíve never seen two people court publicity as much as they do, ironic as Harry has constantly complain about the media invading HIS privacy. He uses the media when it suits him, and sadly it suits him when he (and M) want people to know they care. They are manipulative, thatís how I see them.

I wanted so much for baby steps to a real reconciliation to have taken place, but Iím disgusted by Harry going out of his way to speak with his grandmother, but not taking the time to see his father. Those are not the actions of a man who genuinely wants to heal.
  #1304  
Old 04-22-2021, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Hallo girl View Post
That is a good point, I actually believe she set out to remind him of his mother.
Some of what she has said also clothes, also the very public inclusion of the Spencer family.
IMO her good works is for attention, photographs promoting some of her charities were all about her , specially posed, the charity was forgotten it was about her.
It wouldnít surprise me; sheís very shrewd.
  #1305  
Old 04-22-2021, 02:20 PM
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At the end of the day, people see what they want to see and believe what they want to believe and one person's perspective may differ from someone else's. One factor remains though and that hit home to me was the one report posted earlier stating things are "calmer" within the "Firm" now that Harry and Meghan are no longer a part of it. This tells me that everybody is where they're supposed to be for things to continue on and go forward. We know the monarchy and it's "Firm" is well established and can take a few dents. How well Harry and Meghan succeed in their life going forward remains to be seen.

One thing is clear. Harry and Meghan are now what is deemed celebrity culture and the British Royal Family continue on as royal culture. Those two cultures can't and never will mesh well no matter how much someone wants them to.
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  #1306  
Old 04-22-2021, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
At the end of the day, people see what they want to see and believe what they want to believe and one person's perspective may differ from someone else's. One factor remains though and that hit home to me was the one report posted earlier stating things are "calmer" within the "Firm" now that Harry and Meghan are no longer a part of it. This tells me that everybody is where they're supposed to be for things to continue on and go forward. We know the monarchy and it's "Firm" is well established and can take a few dents. How well Harry and Meghan succeed in their life going forward remains to be seen.

One thing is clear. Harry and Meghan are now what is deemed celebrity culture and the British Royal Family continue on as royal culture. Those two cultures can't and never will mesh well no matter how much someone wants them to.
Iím glad for the BRF that they can do what they need to do without all the drama...

Yes, I would say that H and M are celebrities (of a sort) in America, and they act like it. I agree that their ďcultureĒ and lifestyle and those of the BRF are divergent, and never the twain shall meet.
  #1307  
Old 04-22-2021, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Alisa View Post
Even if there were to examine their actions..that still wouldn't help in establishing the line of communication if it was cut off to begin with.
But Harry admitted the lines of communication hadn't been cut off - Charles was taking his phone calls. They want the family to apologize but I don't think the family felt or feels that it did anything wrong. By going public, they have now wronged the family.

Look at it this way: if you have a disagreement with someone and you both truly think you are right, does it help for the other person to trash you on Facebook or Twitter? Even if you apologized in order to placate that person even though you still feel you were right, would you really have resolved the conflict. At that point, you would be faced with a choice: do you continue the relationship knowing that you have to agree with that person all the time or else they will trash you publicly. Going public with disagreements does not build trust.

Quote:
I don't believe it was the family themself but the people working for them that were of no use in providing Meghan with help. Moreover, we have no other counter argument but what the couple themselves said. But we're all making assumptions and judgements based on that..so nothing new.
You are correct about that - but the staff work for the royal family, who are ultimately responsible.

Quote:
"Ineffective"?, "unloving"?, yikes...thank goodness we heard from the Duchess ' mouth that he was anything but that. She called him her rock and thanks to him and a friend of Diana's Meghan was able to get the help she needed.
Harry admitted that his wife cried every day but he did not take action, that is the mark of an ineffective adult. He also admitted that he let Meghan suffer because he was too embarrassed to talk to his family. If that is the act of a loving husband, I would hate to see how an unloving husband behaves.

Quote:
You may doubt Meghan's version of the event but you can't disagree as you were not there. The issue was major it perpetuated the character assassination of the Duchess. It should have been shot down from the begging.
None of us were there. Every member of the family has dealt with these types of stories. The fact that Meghan felt the need to publicly trash the family (the family that has given her millions of dollars) over something this small is horrible.

Sometimes you have to let things go. People are not always going to agree and it is not helpful to keep bringing something up. One of the keys to having long-lasting loving relationships is to know when to drop things, even if you think you're right.

Was that silly story so important that it was worth hurting his relationships with his family? Reports are that Charles is devastated by their actions. I think the fact that Harry and Meghan believe that their feelings are more important than everyone else's feelings indicates that they are spoiled, self-centered, and selfish.
  #1308  
Old 04-22-2021, 02:57 PM
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While I have huge sympathy for anyone who is having significant mental health problems and actually feeling suicidal, I just cannot accept that Meghan was unable to receive appropriate help.
She is an independently wealthy woman, and her her husband is a very wealthy 36 year old man. They have shown that they can do or say more or less as they please.
If Meghan has been in such difficulty, and in need of help so urgently, why did her husband not arrange this for her? They lived in London, with a huge amount of professional support on their doorstep. I simply cannot accept this grievance.
  #1309  
Old 04-22-2021, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
At the end of the day, people see what they want to see and believe what they want to believe and one person's perspective may differ from someone else's. One factor remains though and that hit home to me was the one report posted earlier stating things are "calmer" within the "Firm" now that Harry and Meghan are no longer a part of it. This tells me that everybody is where they're supposed to be for things to continue on and go forward. We know the monarchy and it's "Firm" is well established and can take a few dents. How well Harry and Meghan succeed in their life going forward remains to be seen.

One thing is clear. Harry and Meghan are now what is deemed celebrity culture and the British Royal Family continue on as royal culture. Those two cultures can't and never will mesh well no matter how much someone wants them to.


I totally agree.

I tend to balance my belief in tabloid stories based on what is known. Well- itís abundantly clear Harry and Meghan were unhappy, and the role wasnít working. It frankly sounds like a drama laden nightmare for all.

So....I have very little doubt things are calmer now in the BRF. That is believable. It sounds like them leaving was for the best all things considered.

Though....I kind of doubt Harry and Meghan believed this would be the end result when they put up their website stating wishes as facts. I rather think they thought they could get everything they wanted because they were so popular. If so- what an embarrassing miscalculation on their part.
  #1310  
Old 04-22-2021, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
I agree.

I think they may have had conversations that were civil and involved Archie and that the last thing HM wants is for anything to happen to Meghan, but I don't buy for a second that there's any real closeness there.

The family knew Philip was on his death bed before the interview aired, they knew he wasn't likely to make it to his birthday and Harry and Meghan still went ahead with it. They then passed on more info they wanted out there via their friends and made what was already a very, very difficult few weeks even more difficult. Knowingly. If Harry can't see why that's a problem no one can help him. And that's before you get into the lasting consequences of the interview.

Given that they know they're leaking like sieves and might be recording conversations I doubt anything truly personal was discussed, nor do I think any of the family will have been particularly pleased with the sudden "Meghan was closest to Philip out of all of them! She sent personally selected flowers!" released right as the funeral was starting and after they'd had the chance to see tributes pouring in from all over the world.

Now they're releasing statements that Harry spent time with his grandmother (but *not* his father or brother) on HM's birthday. They aren't saying "we're going slow and building trust back up with her" they're trying to position her as their no 1 cheerleader in the family.

William/Charles = reports of reconciliation were wrong, reports of Harry writing a letter to his Dad wrong, reports of Kate playing peacemaker wrong, it will take ages to get anywhere. Harry felt ganged up on.

Queen = We've never stopped talking to her, Meghan/Archie has Zoomed with her several times, Harry has talked to her alone twice, we have no beef at all with her, she has no problem with us, she completely understand why Meghan couldn't be there even though they both wanted her to be...

They can't pretend that she's an old dear in a home and that trashing her life's work and every other person in her family doesn't affect her. Or try and co opt her in the same way they try to pretend that Diana isn't William's beloved mother as well.


This is a really good sum up IMO.
  #1311  
Old 04-22-2021, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
But Harry admitted the lines of communication hadn't been cut off - Charles was taking his phone calls. They want the family to apologize but I don't think the family felt or feels that it did anything wrong. By going public, they have now wronged the family.
Harry said he had 2 conversations with his father after which his father stopped taking his phone calls. When someone refuses to take your calls the lines of communication is cut.

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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
Look at it this way: if you have a disagreement with someone and you both truly think you are right, does it help for the other person to trash you on Facebook or Twitter? Even if you apologized in order to placate that person even though you still feel you were right, would you really have resolved the conflict. At that point, you would be faced with a choice: do you continue the relationship knowing that you have to agree with that person all the time or else they will trash you publicly. Going public with disagreements does not build trust.
It takes humility on both sides to resolve a disagreement. Especially when both parties at heart believe they are right. The couple related their experience they didn't trash the family. No one was listening to the couple or willing to hear them so they resorted to their method.

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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
You are correct about that - but the staff work for the royal family, who are ultimately responsible.
It isn't uncommon for the people at the top- the ones ultimately responsible to be completely ignorant about what goes on at the bottom. One positive outcome of this debacle is that there are now plans to review policies and upcoming diversity training.


Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
Harry admitted that his wife cried every day but he did not take action, that is the mark of an ineffective adult. He also admitted that he let Meghan suffer because he was too embarrassed to talk to his family. If that is the act of a loving husband, I would hate to see how an unloving husband behaves.
The couple said once Harry they became aware of Meghan’s mental health struggles they started looking for solutions and doors after doors were closed. Meghan thanked Harry in the interview for making the decision to leave to save her life. Leaving the royal family-to protect his wife and child was huge decision- the very anthesis of "unloving" and being an" ineffective husband"

[QUOTE=US Royal Watcher;2393626]None of us were there. Every member of the family has dealt with these types of stories. The fact that Meghan felt the need to publicly trash the family (the family that has given her millions of dollars) over something this small is horrible.

Exactly- since none of us were there you can't deny Meghan’s story- you can truly only question the truthfulness of it The Queen gave a textbook lesson on this when she said "recollections may vary".
Again she didn't trash the royal family only shared the negative experiences and issues they had to deal with.

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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
Sometimes you have to let things go. People are not always going to agree and it is not helpful to keep bringing something up. One of the keys to having long-lasting loving relationships is to know when to drop things, even if you think you're right.
I agree to an extent. Sometimes the preservation of peace is more important than being right or wrong.
However, the Sussexes issues were huge and they felt that they simply could not carry on with the way things were . That H&M felt that they had to leave the royal family is a pretty big deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
Was that silly story so important that it was worth hurting his relationships with his family? Reports are that Charles is devastated by their actions. I think the fact that Harry and Meghan believe that their feelings are more important than everyone else's feelings indicates that they are spoiled, self-centered, and selfish.
It wasn't a silly story- because no one cared to kill it. No one seemed to care about Meghan’s feelings given she was so affected by it.
As for Charles and his feelings.meh. He once called the late Duke of Edinburgh "hectoring" and "harsh".
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  #1312  
Old 04-22-2021, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Alisa View Post
I'm one of the minority who did not think the interview was bad or that the couple "trashed the family" or "threw them under the bus". The couple simply shared their negative experiences (though it wasn't all bad) during their time as senior royals. Face to face conversations is often unproductive due to heated emotions and anger.
This interview may in fact be the only way the RF got to really hear the couple and their grievances. They were pushed around- talk to this person, that persons, speak to the Prince of Wales, write a letter...etc..etc.
I don't understand how anyone can say that. No matter how heated the argument would be, how angry the sides would be, a PRIVATE conversation would bring them much more resolution than airing family's dirty laundry, sprinkled with some obvious and already proven lies, to a worldwide audience of some xx million people. How was that productive?

And yes, they did throw Harry's family under a bus. How else would you consider publicly attacking people who cannot get their story out there, cannot comment on anything, cannot do anything but continue their work with class, integrity and dignity?
  #1313  
Old 04-22-2021, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Alisa View Post
No one was listening to the couple or willing to hear them so they resorted to their method.

It wasn't a silly story- because no one cared to kill it. No one seemed to care about Meghanís feelings given she was so affected by it.
But are "listening" and "willing to hear" just other ways of saying "doing what Harry and Meghan want?" I mean really, just because you listen to what someone has to say or you are willing to hear them doesn't mean that you have to agree with them or do what they want. So really, how do you or any of us know that they weren't listening or willing to hear them and simply didn't give in? Listening and hearing aren't the same as agreeing or capitulating.

As for Meghan's feelings...why are Meghan's feelings any more important than anyone else's feelings or any long-standing policies? It's long been a policy that they don't really comment on this type of thing for several reasons. First, it makes a mountain out of a molehill. Second, if gives a silly little story legs and causes it to grow disproportionately. Third, if they comment on one story they'd have to comment on every story and that's both ridiculous and impossible. Fourth, that's the policy of the "employer" and "employees" have to learn to deal with it. If they don't like it, too bad. Meghan was no more important or powerful that any other member of the firm/family. They've all had stories written about them that I'm positive they'd like to have slapped down but they didn't. That wasn't the policy and it didn't happen for any of them. Those in charge deemed it minor and unimportant and didn't feel any need to issue a statement. That's it. End of story. As an "employee" of the Firm, Meghan had to just suck it up and deal with it like so many of us do on a daily basis. My employer is frequently written about in news articles, oftentimes with a political spin suited to whichever publication is doing the writing. Would I and others in my department love to clap back and let them know exactly how wrong they are? Sure, sometimes. Sometimes the articles are so ridiculous that they're laughable. Other times we'd love to slap them down. But we can't because those higher up than us have decided that isn't our policy. If we don't like it we're free to leave but as long as we'd like to stay then we have to follow policy. I can assure you that if one of us were to make headlines tomorrow by deciding to "have our say" or "set the record straight" we would absolutely find ourselves out on our ear.
  #1314  
Old 04-22-2021, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Alisa View Post

It wasn't a silly story- because no one cared to kill it. No one seemed to care about Meghan’s feelings given she was so affected by it.
As for Charles and his feelings.meh. He once called the late Duke of Edinburgh "hectoring" and "harsh". He and Mark Bolland manipulated press reports of Harry and William to make himself look good to the press.
Although I don't agree with the rest of your post, I won't argue about it - I'm letting it go. However, if the story was so important, why didn't Harry write a press release at the time, he's written his own press releases before. Why didn't they bring it up during the South Africa interview? Why didn't they set the record straight in Finding Freedom (where they gave a completely different version of events)? Why didn't they send her friends out to give her side of the story earlier?

You probably won't agree but I think it is a combination of the fact their version of events is not true and Meghan decided to focus on this story as a way to deflect from her deplorable behavior.
  #1315  
Old 04-22-2021, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I believe Harry loves his father and brother, but he willingly threw them - especially his father - under the red double decker bus. I think one of Charles’ infamous lines may apply to H: “whatever love means” - because I don’t know if H understands that. It’s one thing to be angry, it’s another thing to be so angry that you deliberately seek to destroy your family. No wonder C is still devastated, William still angry... I’m not sorry to say that H, IMO, has followed Meghan’s path. When she no longer has any use for or is angry at people she supposedly cares about, she’s ruthless - she cuts them out of her life without any warning. If H has followed suit, that IS all on him ..I think M has great sway over him.
I thought the entire point of holding on to the titles, is that Meghan and Harry do in fact need the Royal Family in their future pursuits
  #1316  
Old 04-22-2021, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
Good points. You are probably correct that Harry is angry with William. My original belief was based on my perception that Harry displays completely different attitudes when speaking about William and Charles. With William it is "we're on different paths" and "I'll always be there for him." His language about Charles is very different. I think it is fair to say that Harry is more angry at Charles than he is at William.


I would agree with that. Iím guessing a lot of his anger is about money- which is a factor in many family feuds.
  #1317  
Old 04-22-2021, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
I totally agree.

I tend to balance my belief in tabloid stories based on what is known. Well- itís abundantly clear Harry and Meghan were unhappy, and the role wasnít working. It frankly sounds like a drama laden nightmare for all.

So....I have very little doubt things are calmer now in the BRF. That is believable. It sounds like them leaving was for the best all things considered.

Though....I kind of doubt Harry and Meghan believed this would be the end result when they put up their website stating wishes as facts. I rather think they thought they could get everything they wanted because they were so popular. If so- what an embarrassing miscalculation on their part.
They called the BRFís bluff because they thought they were more important than anyone, excepting HM. Guess what? The BRF didnít fold.

As Kenny Rogers sang in The Gambler...H and M could have used this advice, not that they would have listened. They counted their money while they were still at the table...

Quote:
You've got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to run
You never count your money
When you're sittin' at the table
There'll be time enough for countin'
When the dealin's done



Every gambler knows
That the secret to survivin'
Is knowin' what to throw away
And knowin' what to keep
'Cause every hand's a winner
And every hand's a loser
And the best that you can hope for
Is to die in your sleep"
  #1318  
Old 04-22-2021, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
But are "listening" and "willing to hear" just other ways of saying "doing what Harry and Meghan want?" I mean really, just because you listen to what someone has to say or you are willing to hear them doesn't mean that you have to agree with them or do what they want. So really, how do you or any of us know that they weren't listening or willing to hear them and simply didn't give in? Listening and hearing aren't the same as agreeing or capitulating.

As for Meghan's feelings...why are Meghan's feelings any more important than anyone else's feelings or any long-standing policies? It's long been a policy that they don't really comment on this type of thing for several reasons. First, it makes a mountain out of a molehill. Second, if gives a silly little story legs and causes it to grow disproportionately. Third, if they comment on one story they'd have to comment on every story and that's both ridiculous and impossible. Fourth, that's the policy of the "employer" and "employees" have to learn to deal with it. If they don't like it, too bad. Meghan was no more important or powerful that any other member of the firm/family. They've all had stories written about them that I'm positive they'd like to have slapped down but they didn't. That wasn't the policy and it didn't happen for any of them. Those in charge deemed it minor and unimportant and didn't feel any need to issue a statement. That's it. End of story. As an "employee" of the Firm, Meghan had to just suck it up and deal with it like so many of us do on a daily basis. My employer is frequently written about in news articles, oftentimes with a political spin suited to whichever publication is doing the writing. Would I and others in my department love to clap back and let them know exactly how wrong they are? Sure, sometimes. Sometimes the articles are so ridiculous that they're laughable. Other times we'd love to slap them down. But we can't because those higher up than us have decided that isn't our policy. If we don't like it we're free to leave but as long as we'd like to stay then we have to follow policy. I can assure you that if one of us were to make headlines tomorrow by deciding to "have our say" or "set the record straight" we would absolutely find ourselves out on our ear.
Beautifully said. The part in bold is well taken; H and M donít handle anyone disagreeing with them well at ALL.
  #1319  
Old 04-22-2021, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Queen Ester View Post
I thought the entire point of holding on to the titles, is that Meghan and Harry do in fact need the Royal Family in their future pursuits
I expect they want the titles because itís very prestigious for them to have; advertising themselves as Harry and Meghan Mountbatten- Windsor wonít attract headlines. Besides, that wasnít my point - my point was that M is ruthless when it comes to her relationships.
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Old 04-22-2021, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Fem View Post
I don't understand how anyone can say that. No matter how heated the argument would be, how angry the sides would be, a PRIVATE conversation would bring them much more resolution than airing family's dirty laundry, sprinkled with some obvious and already proven lies, to a worldwide audience of some xx million people. How was that productive?
If they were not willing to answer phone calls- what were the chances of getting them to sit down and meet with the couple?
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