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  #1241  
Old 04-22-2021, 03:05 AM
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Let's not get overly paranoid. The Duke of Cambridge's name is William - there is nothing wrong in using somebody's first name. We do not need to see ghosts behind every stone.

The over-analyzation of each and every word that is said or written makes it tricky enough already, there is no need to engage in a world of hypotheticals. Speculation on how people would have thought or acted had they been alive takes us into a parallel universe while it is best for this discussion to be rooted some form reality.

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  #1242  
Old 04-22-2021, 03:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Dalriada View Post
So the [Sussexes] still can’t help themselves with regard to privacy by using their unofficial spokesthing Scobie to spread details of the visit to Windsor:


Meghan and Archie 'spoke to the Queen before Prince Philip's funeral'
https://mol.im/a/9496829

https://www.harpersbazaar.com/celebr...hilip-funeral/
Neither Meghan nor Harry can seem to keep their mouths shut, sigh. Was it really necessary to have Omid spill the beans on M talking with HM? Will the details of H’s conversations with Charles and William be next?
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  #1243  
Old 04-22-2021, 03:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
One thing about the Queen being on the throne for so very long and also for Philip being right by her side through it all is that these two people have mastered the art of never letting their displeasure with anyone show. That's true diplomacy. That's true class, grace and dignity. Something sorely missing these days with Harry and Meghan.

Then again, Philip did have a way with words didn't he?
I woud not say that Philip is all that diplomatic and I am sure if he was fully aware of the way Harry's been talking, he would have been angry.. I think last year he didn't take part in the discussions because he was not really up to in depth talks about complicated issues and mabye they were afraid that it would just upset him.
  #1244  
Old 04-22-2021, 03:36 AM
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Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
I don’t think he’s naive at all, at least not when it comes to this sort of thing.
I can't work out what's going on with them at all. Surely nobody could be so utterly stupid that they wouldn't realise that accusing your family of racism, on a TV interview, was going to cause huge problems? But then surely nobody could be so stupid that they wouldn't realise that telling a pack of lies about Archie being denied a title and style due to his ethnicity would immediately be exposed as a pack of lies when the media explained the rules (or have the American media ignored that?), or that claiming you were secretly married in the garden by the Archbishop of Canterbury would also be exposed as a lie. None of it makes any sense.
  #1245  
Old 04-22-2021, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
I would not be surprised that the Queen is being nice to Meghan. Meghan mentioned calling the Queen when Prince Philip was hospitalized. We also know that there were Zoom calls with the Queen and Prince Philip as of a few months ago.

The Queen is 95 and just lost her husband, I'm sure seeing Harry during his visit and talking with Meghan has been a comfort. I hope they maintain the contact.
I am sure talking to the person who trashed her family while her husband was seriously ill and as we now know in the final weeks of his life will be a comfort to the Queen.

I get the impression from both the interview and other leaks from the Sussex team that Meghan thinks she is handling a 95 year old grandmother whom she can patronise.
As Julia Roberts said ' Big Mistake '
I am sure the queen has been polite , as she knows how to conduct herself, it does not mean for one minute she is in agreement with what was said, or happy with their conduct.
Meghan needs to be able to say that she is still in contact with the queen, do the rest of the family announce that they have spoken to their mother / grand mother, that says it all to me.

All this is demonstrating is that they are not as independent as they would like to make out they are. They need the link to the uk and the family.
The irony is if they had avoided the interview they would have had that , ok there might have been a bit of tension with William but that would hopefully have resolved itself eventually.
  #1246  
Old 04-22-2021, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
I can't work out what's going on with them at all. Surely nobody could be so utterly stupid that they wouldn't realise that accusing your family of racism, on a TV interview, wasn't going to cause huge problems? But then surely nobody could be so stupid that they wouldn't realise that telling a pack of lies about Archie being denied a title and style due to his ethnicity would immediately be exposed as a pack of lies when the media explained the rules (or have the American media ignored that?), or that claiming you were secretly married in the garden by the Archbishop of Canterbury would also be exposed as a lie. None of it makes any sense.
I think in one sense yes they are that stupid. They dont realize that people DO pick up on lies and untruths. But perhaps they believe that their life is in the US now and that the US media and public who follow them dont know enough abut the royal rules to see that the various things they said weren't true and were spiteful. so even if they know that the BRF Will probably never quite trust them again, they're thinking "Oh well we have a contract with Neflix,we have business opportunities here, in the US and we can make a good living here" so they dont care all that much that the British public are fed up with them and that the RF are not happy about being called racists' or heartless.
Im sure the queen isn't happy with them, esp if they are making out that they are calling her up and being the best of friends. But she's H's grandmother, and she will always care for him.. However again, i think the issue is, will she trust him again? Will she feel obliged to put out statements saying that "recollections vary"? Will she have to put aside feelings of hurt and anger when she does talk to him?
And Harry may well consider that if the US doesn't work out, in a few years time, maybe, he will need to turn to his family again for help and he's already alienated Charles to the point where he refused to take his calls.. showing that if pushed, Charles can be tough with him.. and might not be as generous as Harry seems to feel he should be.
  #1247  
Old 04-22-2021, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
I can't work out what's going on with them at all. Surely nobody could be so utterly stupid that they wouldn't realise that accusing your family of racism, on a TV interview, wasn't going to cause huge problems? But then surely nobody could be so stupid that they wouldn't realise that telling a pack of lies about Archie being denied a title and style due to his ethnicity would immediately be exposed as a pack of lies when the media explained the rules (or have the American media ignored that?), or that claiming you were secretly married in the garden by the Archbishop of Canterbury would also be exposed as a lie. None of it makes any sense.
American media just decided they believed everything out of her mouth, probably because most of them, while not caring about BRF enough to ever write about them, do have a latent resentment against them (because our country exists due to ultimately deciding we’d bad enough of the Monarchy). They also don’t know squat about rules/procedures, etc...though, to be fair, I wouldn’t expect them to.
  #1248  
Old 04-22-2021, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I think in one sense yes they are that stupid. They dont realize that people DO pick up on lies and untruths. But perhaps they believe that their life is in the US now and that the US media and public who follow them dont know enough abut the royal rules to see that the various things they said weren't true and were spiteful. so even if they know that the BRF Will probably never quite trust them again, they're thinking "Oh well we have a contract with Neflix,we have business opportunities here, in the US and we can make a good living here" so they dont care all that much that the British public are fed up with them and that the RF are not happy about being called racists' or heartless.
Im sure the queen isn't happy with them, esp if they are making out that they are calling her up and being the best of friends. But she's H's grandmother, and she will always care for him.. However again, i think the issue is, will she trust him again? Will she feel obliged to put out statements saying that "recollections vary"? Will she have to put aside feelings of hurt and anger when she does talk to him?
And Harry may well consider that if the US doesn't work out, in a few years time, maybe, he will need to turn to his family again for help and he's already alienated Charles to the point where he refused to take his calls.. showing that if pushed, Charles can be tough with him.. and might not be as generous as Harry seems to feel he should be.

I just said the same thing re: American media, etc.. I think Meghan for sure played up to this - even people not in traditional media, people who cover politics, for example (as I’ve been heavily into) on blogs, etc...were absolutely livid. I think there must be, in some Americans, a feeling of superiority over the UK because we essentially dumped the monarchy/BRF. Considering some of the fools and disgraces we’ve elected President, lol, we shouldn’t talk. Let me emphasize “SOME” - it’s not most, and especially as we need to remember that most people are not on-line.

As to your second point, in bold, reports indicate that the Queen is fully supportive of Charles and William in this regard. Sure she loves her grandson, but grandmas can be angry and frustrated, also. I’m sure she trusts Harry as far as she can throw him
  #1249  
Old 04-22-2021, 06:28 AM
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I think the thing people are not getting and what needs to be remembered - is that Meghan and Harry's interview and indeed their whole PR is primed to specific people in the US and the world.
Those people really don't care if they are lies or not, they don't care if it is Harry's family. All they see is a woman of color standing up against an institution that they have already judged as irrelevant, racist and out of touch with them and is winning on issues that they hold dear.
It helps that she is an attractive woman and it is the reason the assault was on the nameless grey men and then on Charles - the white, bald and boring. The only reason the Queen was removed from the attack afterwards was the old still sway sympathy. The interview was deliberate and calculated, using issues that cannot really be proven or verified.
  #1250  
Old 04-22-2021, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire View Post
I think the thing people are not getting and what needs to be remembered - is that Meghan and Harry's interview and indeed their whole PR is primed to specific people in the US and the world.
Those people really don't care if they are lies or not, they don't care if it is Harry's family. All they see is a woman of color standing up against an institution that they have already judged as irrelevant, racist and out of touch with them and is winning on issues that they hold dear.
It helps that she is an attractive woman and it is the reason the assault was on the nameless grey men and then on Charles - the white, bald and boring. The only reason the Queen was removed from the attack afterwards was the old still sway sympathy. The interview was deliberate and calculated, using issues that cannot really be proven or verified.
You dont think that Harry removed his grandparents because he dimly realised that to attack a man who was as he probably knew then, dying, MIGHT look a bit bad to the American public? It must be obvious now that PHil has died, that harry must have known he wasn't long for this world at the time he did the interview.. and that to have caused poeple to attachk him as a horrible racist, when he was dying, made Harry look bad?
  #1251  
Old 04-22-2021, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I just said the same thing re: American media, etc.. I think Meghan for sure played up to this - even people not in traditional media, people who cover politics, for example (as I’ve been heavily into) on blogs, etc...were absolutely livid. I think there must be, in some Americans, a feeling of superiority over the UK because we essentially dumped the monarchy/BRF. Considering some of the fools and disgraces we’ve elected President, lol, we shouldn’t talk. Let me emphasize “SOME” - it’s not most, and especially as we need to remember that most people are not on-line.

Americans were pretty much divided at the time of the War of Independence. Maybe a third sided with the Crown, another third supported independence, and the rest probably didn't care either way. Following independence, a smaller number of Crown loyalists (between 60,000 and 70,000 people) moved to other parts of the British Empire, chiefly Canada and the Caribbean. Ultimately independence was successful because the British government lost domestic political support in the British parliament and foreign powers that were opposed to Great Britain such as France and Spain sided with the insurgents and intervened in the war.



African-Americans and native Americans didn't have a say in the process either as they were not citizens, which the original Enumeration Clause in the US Constitition BTW makes patently clear. In the case of native Americans in particular, one of the stated goals of the insurgence, as mentioned in the Declaration of Independence, was to promote settlement in the Indian territories to the West of the original 13 colonies, which was opposed by the British government at the time. Incidentally, although the grievances in the Declaration of Independence are directed at King George III, most of them were actually with the British Parliament or the British government, rather than the King personally.
  #1252  
Old 04-22-2021, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I just said the same thing re: American media, etc.. I think Meghan for sure played up to this - even people not in traditional media, people who cover politics, for example (as I’ve been heavily into) on blogs, etc...were absolutely livid. I think there must be, in some Americans, a feeling of superiority over the UK because we essentially dumped the monarchy/BRF. Considering some of the fools and disgraces we’ve elected President, lol, we shouldn’t talk. Let me emphasize “SOME” - it’s not most, and especially as we need to remember that most people are not on-line.

As to your second point, in bold, reports indicate that the Queen is fully supportive of Charles and William in this regard. Sure she loves her grandson, but grandmas can be angry and frustrated, also. I’m sure she trusts Harry as far as she can throw him
It was of course Aimed at America.. but I saw a programme just after the interview, where English people seemted to be buying into what Harry and Megh said as gospel truth, so the attacks harmed the RF both in the US and the UK as well... (albeit I think most UK people have thought poorly of them for a long time)...
As for the queen, Harry has been IMO foolsih becuase although he has good money making opps in the US, you never know how things will pan out. So far, he doesn't seem to have done anything practical to earn the money that he's hoping to get, and maybe he and Meg wont prove all that smart at business. and then if things work out badly, they may find that they have to turn to the family for help.. And Charles at least (while he wont see his son starve) has shown that he's capable of tough love towards Harry and might not help out or only on conditions. Similarly the queen, after the attacks, might well feel that if she leaves him some money, it will be all tied up so he cant touch it easily
  #1253  
Old 04-22-2021, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Americans were pretty much divided at the time of the War of Independence. Maybe a third sided with the Crown, another third supported independence, and the rest probably didn't care either way. Following independence, a smaller number of Crown loyalists (between 60,000 and 70,000 people) moved to other parts of the British Empire, chiefly Canada and the Caribbean. Ultimately independence was successful because the British government lost domestic political support in the British parliament and foreign powers that were opposed to Great Britain such as France and Spain sided with the insurgents and intervened in the war.



African-Americans and native Americans didn't have a say in the process either as they were not citizens, which the original Enumeration Clause in the US Constitition BTW makes patently clear. In the case of native Americans in particular, one of the stated goals of the insurgence, as mentioned in the Declaration of Independence, was to promote settlement in the Indian territories to the West of the original 13 colonies, which was opposed by the British government at the time. Incidentally, although the grievances in the Declaration of Independence are directed at King George III, most of them were actually with the British Parliament or the British government, rather than the King personally.
Certainly you make very good points, but ultimately America still declared her independence...and won. Whatever the reasons for Independence, people reacting to the Oprah interview weren’t thinking about that, and generations of Americans have grown up thinking George III was the real issue. Yes, Parliament’s actions as cause of rebellion are and have been taught, but I’m guessing Americans would rather blame a King and the entire institution rather than Parliament ..since our Congress is based largely on same.

Mostly, Americans suck at history, sadly don’t care about it, and would prefer to believe a wealthy actress over anyone in a family that was born into that wealth and privilege.
  #1254  
Old 04-22-2021, 07:03 AM
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I had an interesting discussion with a friend in the US media who told me that if the Crown TV series has not been successful - M&H would not have left. They also would not have done the Oprah interview. It is the successful of the show, especially amount the BAME community especially in the US that was the key factor. He noted that that is why we have shows like Bridgerton now to capitalize on that market. Black Americans developed a taste for royal watching and a like of British culture in general.
  #1255  
Old 04-22-2021, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
It was of course Aimed at America.. but I saw a programme just after the interview, where English people seemted to be buying into what Harry and Megh said as gospel truth, so the attacks harmed the RF both in the US and the UK as well... (albeit I think most UK people have thought poorly of them for a long time)...
As for the queen, Harry has been IMO foolsih becuase although he has good money making opps in the US, you never know how things will pan out. So far, he doesn't seem to have done anything practical to earn the money that he's hoping to get, and maybe he and Meg wont prove all that smart at business. and then if things work out badly, they may find that they have to turn to the family for help.. And Charles at least (while he wont see his son starve) has shown that he's capable of tough love towards Harry and might not help out or only on conditions. Similarly the queen, after the attacks, might well feel that if she leaves him some money, it will be all tied up so he cant touch it easily
I’m afraid that the Crown has weakened the Institution where it counts - in the UK. I’d hoped the British would know the difference between fiction and reality...I’d hoped they wouldn’t buy what H and M tried to sell in the interview. They’re unpopular, so I’m surprised that post-interview poll results in UK did indicate that many did believe them.
  #1256  
Old 04-22-2021, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I’m afraid that the Crown has weakened the Institution where it counts - in the UK. I’d hoped the British would know the difference between fiction and reality...I’d hoped they wouldn’t buy what H and M tried to sell in the interview. They’re unpopular, so I’m surprised that post-interview poll results in UK did indicate that many did believe them.
Of course many people are going to beleive them.. People aren't very well informed, and unless you are a royal watcher the ins and outs of Royal life are complicated and its easy to get people to believe a simplified but wrong version of things. I agree I was a bit gobmacked by seeing people who did seem to be "OMG that poor Meghan was treated so awfully".. and believing it all.
I dont think that it will affect the RF all that much but still, it is unpleasant to see people getting away with saying a bunch of things that they never should have said...
having said that, a lot of people may not be that smart on these issues but enough people have common sense to realize that quite a few of the things they said were not true.. such as of course the getting marred in the garden. And if people in the public eye, like M and H TALK to the public a lot, they eventually contradict themselves and the public do realize that they're not speaking the truth... ANd it looks like Meg and Harry are going to talk rather a lot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire View Post
I had an interesting discussion with a friend in the US media who told me that if the Crown TV series has not been successful - M&H would not have left. They also would not have done the Oprah interview. It is the successful of the show, especially amount the BAME community especially in the US that was the key factor. He noted that that is why we have shows like Bridgerton now to capitalize on that market. Black Americans developed a taste for royal watching and a like of British culture in general.
It seems to me that the 2 of them had ideas of leaving or going part time before they even started their royal and married life.. so I doubt if a TV show had anything to do with it.
  #1257  
Old 04-22-2021, 08:22 AM
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Sometimes I wonder if perhaps what seemed to be the initial big successes Meghan had early on joining the "Firm" as a working royal went to their heads. The attraction. The "star power", making a best seller list and generally really drawing in the crowds. Quite often I've read where celebrity goes to a person's head and they're on top of the world and believe they can do anything and everything and whatever they touch turns to gold. Then, down the line you hear they've filed for bankruptcy as the jobs dried up and the money stopped coming in and they faded away into obscurity.

Did things go to her head and she figured that she could do so much more but then felt restricted by the "Firm"? Were they holding her and Harry back from achieving all they could possibly achieve? Did that give them the bright idea that they could do things differently within the "Firm" and take it in a new direction and when that was shot down, figured they'd do oh so much better just the two of them on their own?

Sometimes this is what I think what happened. Their egos got the best of them but so many contingencies they didn't count on worked against them. They lost so much that was given them due to the "Firm" that they expected always to be there. The pandemic hit and everybody had to stay home. No speaking engagements, no being out and about with PR following them to report every move. No money coming in and huge bills piling up. Panic time with Oprah to the rescue. Oh! "Finding Freedom" didn't make the best seller list at all. Everything seemed to be working against them.

Yeps.. as was said earlier here quoting Julia Roberts. "Big mistake".

Pride goes before a fall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I woud not say that Philip is all that diplomatic and I am sure if he was fully aware of the way Harry's been talking, he would have been angry.. I think last year he didn't take part in the discussions because he was not really up to in depth talks about complicated issues and mabye they were afraid that it would just upset him.
I think you're right. I seem to remember that when the "summit" was called in January 2020 at Sandringham. Philip was seen leaving the estate around the time that Charles and Harry were to arrive to hash things out. Meghan didn't attend either and was already on the way back to Canada at the time.

I think perhaps Philip was very aware of things at that time but had most likely thrown in the towel and refused to be a part of it and left it to Charles to handle it. He was probably very disgusted with Harry and his lack of respect for duty that Philip valued so very much throughout his lifetime.

Philip was not an overly forgiving person. He never did come to terms with Fergie and accept her ever again. She had to leave the premises before Philip arrived if she was visiting the Queen.
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  #1258  
Old 04-22-2021, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
One thing about the Queen being on the throne for so very long and also for Philip being right by her side through it all is that these two people have mastered the art of never letting their displeasure with anyone show. That's true diplomacy. That's true class, grace and dignity. Something sorely missing these days with Harry and Meghan.



Then again, Philip did have a way with words didn't he?


True.

That said- I think if this interview had taken place a few years ago when Philip was in better health- his reaction likely would have been epic. I’m pretty sure Harry and Meghan would have heard his reaction from California- without a telephone. The only thing I’ve heard about his thoughts on this interview was that he thought nothing good would come of it. And he was right. Whether he was aware of all- or parts- of what was said I don’t know.
  #1259  
Old 04-22-2021, 08:39 AM
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or did they always have the idea of doing things " a new way" which essentially was "stepping out of royal life part of the time to live in the US and make money"? According to what they've said, that they never kept the queen out of the loop, I think that they DID always mean to get out. And there were stories going around in the first year or two, about them going to live in Africa, that suggests to me that there WERE discussions with the queen etc, but I think that they weren't completely frank with her. They put it as they wanted to get out part time to have a private life, that they were under strain etc etc and I think that behind the scenes the queen was trying to find some way of giving them some time out..
  #1260  
Old 04-22-2021, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
It seems to me that the 2 of them had ideas of leaving or going part time before they even started their royal and married life.. so I doubt if a TV show had anything to do with it.

If it is true that they started talking about a new way forward two years in advance, then I agree that their intention was always not necessarily to leave, but to pursue some kind of "half in, half out" option.
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