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  #501  
Old 04-14-2021, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
This is true but I think itís a bit of six of one, half dozen of the other. He doesnít have to tell her everything but she should have the good sense not to share what he tells her with reporters, friends, and the world.

And thatís if, indeed, it was she who has told it all rather than him or a combination of the two. But I do think that clearly Harry and Meghan know which of the two of them have shared these things and itíll be very, very interesting to see how much is shared with us from the mouths of Gayle and Scobie after Harry returns from the funeral.
But I understood that Harry told her about this conversation before they were married or shortly after, certainly Meghan would then be extra sensitive to any racial hints, he ruined any chance of Meghan being happy in the RF, if she knew that someone was a racist. There was no need to convey that conversation to her.
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  #502  
Old 04-14-2021, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
Well this is...interesting. I have to say, if itís true, it sounds very much like the child who is sorry they got caught but not sorry they did something wrong. They have regrets about the timing but still feel it was something they had to do? They needed to have their say and couldnít see any other way to do it? Really?



Anyway, interesting if true.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/146445...lip-death/amp/


It is interesting- if true.

Iím not surprised weíre reading regrets about the timing and them wanting to forgive, etc now. Given that Philip has just died, it seems like a good PR move. (And maybe how they really feel anyway.) Their timing really couldnít have been much worse. One more reason why you keep private matters private. Things happen. Loved one die. No one should have been dealing with this in the last weeks of Philipís life IMO. And I sincerely hope Philip was largely unaware of what was said. He sure didnít need to hear it.

It is truly beyond my comprehension why, if true, that interview was something they ďneededĒ to do. Why exactly did any of that need to be broadcast worldwide? Itís a private family feud that they opted to make public. It baffles me. Itís not like Charles, William, and Catherine have run around giving interviews about them. Nor will they. I donít get it. But....I never have understood it when other people- famous or not- opt to do the same.
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  #503  
Old 04-14-2021, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
Well this is...interesting. I have to say, if itís true, it sounds very much like the child who is sorry they got caught but not sorry they did something wrong. They have regrets about the timing but still feel it was something they had to do? They needed to have their say and couldnít see any other way to do it? Really?

Anyway, interesting if true.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/146445...lip-death/amp/
It doesnít really move me...the timing was awful, but there wasnít ever going to be a right time for that. I wish their friends would keep quiet - the damage has been done, nothing about that interview can make H and M look good. Just leave it be, let Harry and his family mourn.
  #504  
Old 04-14-2021, 11:52 AM
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Given how Philip seems to have been very ill when in hosptial and only had a few weeks at home when he died, it seems hard to imagine that H and Meghan didn't know he wasn't expected to go on for long.. at the time they did the interview.
  #505  
Old 04-14-2021, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
I've read that. It is The Sun so who knows, but if it does come from their camp then they don't seem very sorry.


I know when I love and respect them I trash the thing they've dedicated their lives to and publicly trash talk their other beloved relatives. And go on the attack when I know a 99 year old is critically ill in hospital.
.



I hope that they can all get through the next few days together as a family but after that I have no idea what will happen.

They donít really seem sorry, if true. Just recognizing that...whoops....their timing was epically bad. Which it was.


Yeah. I thought the interview was disrespectful to his grandparents too. (But I thought their website and numerous passive aggressive shots over the last year were, as well.) It was nasty towards people his grandparents love, their lifeís work got trashed, and caused unnecessary stress and pain.

If I were to guess- Iíd think the primary focus is on getting through Philipís funeral. It may not be the right time to try and have productive conversations when people are upset about a death in the family. It could make things worse.
  #506  
Old 04-14-2021, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
Iím not surprised weíre reading regrets about the timing and them wanting to forgive, etc now. ...
I agree with all of this. They had control of the timing. If whatever they signed didn't allow them to control the timing of airing, they could have negotiated so it did. Oprah and CBS knew it was going to be a ratings bonanza, and supposedly H&M were doing it for free. CBS and Oprah wouldn't have said "We won't do it unless you give us sole control." And even if they did say that, H&M could have easily found another network or platform that would have given them more control. It wasn't a choice between "Either we talk to Oprah right now and CBS airs it when they want to air it, or we have to stay silent forever." They had plenty of options for when and how to air their grievances, and they chose to do it while Philip was hospitalized for what they had to know was his final illness. I said all along that their priority was getting it out there before he died.

Everything they complained about had happened at least a year in the past. The flower girl dress incident was in early 2018. The supposedly racist conversation would have been around the same time. Archie was born in May 2019, so whatever happened during Meghan's pregnancy was two years ago. Charles refusing to take Harry's calls and cutting him off financially probably happened when they posted their half-in half-out plan on their website more than a year ago. Waiting a few more months to tell the world about it wouldn't have been so terrible.
  #507  
Old 04-14-2021, 01:03 PM
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There's no suggestion that Prince Philip was mentally incapacitated by his recent health problems. Even if the family didn't want him to know what was going on, they couldn't have kept it from him, unless he had no access to a TV, a radio, newspapers or the internet. So he went to his grave knowing that there was a rift in the family, which is very sad. But what's done is done, and maybe something can be done to heal the rift now.


Without wishing to be morbid, the Queen's 95, and Thomas Markle, although much younger, is not in good health.


But I don't know that this weekend'll be the time for it - the focus will be on the funeral and supporting the Queen.
  #508  
Old 04-14-2021, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
Surely, accusations of racism are no worse than the racism that may have transpired? And that's the crux of my argument (which also isn't that the BRF is not the injured party, as you seem to suggest). While the BRF (and the firm) is afforded the benefit of doubt (because we don't know what's happened), H&M are crucified for relaying the story (although we still don't know what happened). And I find that's a consistant theme throughout discussions about the Sussexes and I just think that's puzzling.

Also regardless of what anyone may think of the interview (I definitely think it should've been done different), considering the gravity of some of the issues discussed, I think it's extremely inappropriate to insinuate that they were just "whining" or trying to gain sympathy. If one's recognising that for now, for us, there's no way of knowing what's right and what's wrong, surely there's not need to downplay H&M's experiences like that.
I understand that you feel Meghan and Harry deserve the benefit of the doubt. It also seems you believe that being a victim of racism is worse than being a victim of almost anything else. I respect those opinions but donít share them.

You also seem to argue that no one can have a valid opinion on Harry and Meghan's allegations because we don't know for sure what happened. If that were the standard, we would rarely be able to have an opinion about anything - including events that don't involve the royal family - unless we are a direct witness. In contrast, I think I can reasonably form opinions about the whole interview based on whether it can be proven that Harry and Meghan deliberately lied during the interview.

Letís examine their allegation that Archie was not eligible for security because he is not an HRH. I think we can agree that Harry and Meghan know that Harry, Meghan, Eugenie, and Beatrice are HRHs and do not currently have taxpayer funded security. Therefore, in my opinion, the only way to conclude that this allegation was not a deliberate lie is to believe that they are blithering idiots who canít put two and two together. However, I think the reality is that they were deliberately dishonest about this and other allegations because they knew that their real experience with the royal family was not that bad so they had to lie and exaggerate to get sympathy. Frankly, I think my interpretation is more flattering.

Another thing even Harry and Meghan fans should be able to understand is why, given the suffering around the world, I think it was unseemly to complain that his family cut them off financially since they are a middle-aged couple who: (1) have millions of dollars, (2) live in a mansion, and (3) have ways to use his familyís prestige to get more money. Furthermore, Harry did not express one word of gratitude to Charles for giving him millions of dollars over the years.

Whatís worse, Harry made it clear that he believes others, including taxpayers (most of whom donít have multimillion dollar mansions), should foot the cost of his security after he voluntarily relinquished his royal duties and fled the country. Iíve concluded that the only reason for him to not to want to spend his own considerable wealth for security is because he would rather use his money to fund a lavish lifestyle. Who wouldnít - but most of us donít have a choice. In my opinion, the fact that they even raised the financial disagreement at all revealed that they are greedy, whiny, spoiled, entitled, ungrateful, and selfish.

Even if some donít agree, I find it hard to believe that they donít understand why I came to that conclusion. On the other hand, I can accept that Harry and Meghan fans may concede that their behavior in this instance was wrong but doesnít outweigh their good qualities

I would be interested in reading an intelligent defense that addresses Harry and Meghanís actual behavior. However, if the only response is to only deflect with allegations that Meghan and Harry are held to a different standard or repeat unproven claims that the family is racist or drag the allegations against Andrew into this, it is probably better to simply not respond. Those types of responses really don't fool anyone.
  #509  
Old 04-14-2021, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
There's no suggestion that Prince Philip was mentally incapacitated by his recent health problems. Even if the family didn't want him to know what was going on, they couldn't have kept it from him, unless he had no access to a TV, a radio, newspapers or the internet. So he went to his grave knowing that there was a rift in the family, which is very sad. But what's done is done, and maybe something can be done to heal the rift now.


Without wishing to be morbid, the Queen's 95, and Thomas Markle, although much younger, is not in good health.


But I don't know that this weekend'll be the time for it - the focus will be on the funeral and supporting the Queen.
Philip knew about the interview...it seems his reaction essentially was that he thought it was a big mistake, but that it was Harryís life to live. It feels like he just didnít want to (and Iíve read this, actually) involve himself in this stuff - going back as far as last yearís summit.

What Charles, William and Harry need to do is plant the seeds for the beginning of a reconciliation. Thereís no rush to ďoh my god, we need to fix things ASAPĒ - that would be impossible.

I hope Harry stays behind the funeral - I get that he misses his wife and child, but his family in the UK needs him, too, and they need some time together in order to try and lay the foundations of a new start.
  #510  
Old 04-14-2021, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Given how Philip seems to have been very ill when in hosptial and only had a few weeks at home when he died, it seems hard to imagine that H and Meghan didn't know he wasn't expected to go on for long.. at the time they did the interview.
I think they have said that he wasn't in the hospital when they first recorded the interview. It doesn't matter to me though. The interview was a bad idea whether Philip was in the hospital or not.
  #511  
Old 04-14-2021, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
I understand that you feel Meghan and Harry deserve the benefit of the doubt. It also seems you believe that being a victim of racism is worse than being a victim of almost anything else. I respect those opinions but don’t share them.
What a strange conclusion to draw from any of my posts on the subject I don't believe I've compared racism to "anything else".

Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
You also seem to argue that no one can have a valid opinion on Harry and Meghan's allegations because we don't know for sure what happened. If that were the standard, we would rarely be able to have an opinion about anything - including events that don't involve the royal family - unless we are a direct witness. In contrast, I think I can reasonably form opinions about the whole interview based on whether it can be proven that Harry and Meghan deliberately lied during the interview (...)
No, that's not what I'm arguing. If you read my original post on the subject, the poster I replied to insinuated that H&M "think" they're the wronged party. My argument was that it's curious how it seems to have been collectively determined among several posters that they haven't been wronged when we don't know the details of what's gone down.

In particular I find it curious how readily people seem to brush off the allegations of racism just because H&M made the allegations in an interview they didn't like.
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  #512  
Old 04-14-2021, 02:07 PM
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Of all the allegations and the accusations and insinuations that came out of that interview, the allegations of racism and bullying are the ones that the institution of the "Firm" has taken seriously and has implemented investigations into.

This, to me, says it all.
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  #513  
Old 04-14-2021, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
What a strange conclusion to draw from any of my posts on the subject I don't believe I've compared racism to "anything else".


No, that's not what I'm arguing. If you read my original post on the subject, the poster I replied to insinuated that H&M "think" they're the wronged party. My argument was that it's curious how it seems to have been collectively determined among several posters that they haven't been wronged when we don't know the details of what's gone down.

In particular I find it curious how readily people seem to brush off the allegations of racism just because H&M made the allegations in an interview they didn't like.
I think she probably experienced some racism, but I'm not going to express outrage over one comment that may or may not have made or was said out of ignorance or taken out of context. A few headlines (most of which had to be edited because there weren't enough real racist comments and this one supposed comment is not worth my outrage. It's arguments like this that have led me to believe you think racism is worse than anything else. If you want to be outraged on behalf of a rich celebrity who experienced some minor instances, fine. I am reserving my outrage for serious discrimination, such as people being unfairly stopped by police, not able to find jobs, and being physically assault, etc.

At the same time, I truly feel that this interview was worse than anything the royal family did to Meghan, even assuming the supposed comment was true. I think it was unproductive, hateful, and served no purpose but to hurt his family. You obviously disagree but that is fine. That is what makes the board interesting.
  #514  
Old 04-14-2021, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Of all the allegations and the accusations and insinuations that came out of that interview, the allegations of racism and bullying are the ones that the institution of the "Firm" has taken seriously and has implemented investigations into.

This, to me, says it all.
Are they investigating allegations of racism? I thought they just instituted a diversity training and were planning to do so before the interview. They are investigating how senior staff handled allegations that Meghan was bullying the staff.
  #515  
Old 04-14-2021, 02:36 PM
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It must be special for Harry being back, on his own, in his old world, in the house that was intended for him and his starting family, after all that happened, for this sad occasion.
  #516  
Old 04-14-2021, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
I think she probably experienced some racism, but I'm not going to express outrage over one comment that may or may not have made or was said out of ignorance or taken out of context. A few headlines (most of which had to be edited because there weren't enough real racist comments and this one supposed comment is not worth my outrage. It's arguments like this that have led me to believe you think racism is worse than anything else. If you want to be outraged on behalf of a rich celebrity, fine. I am reserving my outrage for serious discrimination, such as people being unfairly stopped by police, not able to find jobs, and being physically assault, etc.
If by the bolded you mean that I think the concept of racism is worse Ė not than "anything else" but than the Oprah interview Ė then yes, you're right

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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
At the same time, I truly feel that this interview was worse than anything the royal family did to Meghan, even assuming the supposed comment was true. I think it was unproductive, hateful, and served no purpose but to hurt his family. You obviously disagree but that is fine. That is what makes the board interesting.
I could second your argument and say if you want to be outraged on behalf of a bunch of rich celebrities because someone did an interview that hurt them, fine. I'm reserving my outrage for discrimination directed at other people on the basis of their race, sexual orientation, gender orientation or social class
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  #517  
Old 04-14-2021, 02:45 PM
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I really tried to keep out of this conversation but we'll you know me.
From a person who lives in the UK, my issue with the comments made in the interview with regards race were that they were unsubstantiated. These were serious accusations that could bring down a throne, but they just threw in the firework then shrugged their shoulders.
Comments have been made that it was Meghans 'experience' therefore it must be right and if you don't believe her you are also racist.
The accusation that Archie did not have the title of prince because of his skin colour is factually wrong, but once again we have been told that it was Meghans experience therefore it must be right.
I have no idea who or if anybody made the comment about skin colour so I cannot judge but because I know the title part is wrong it raises the doubt about the first part.
This is where a proper interview with proper follow up questions would have helped.
The wedding story was false another example of mis information.
This why IMO people are doubting everything because they can drive a bus through some of the stories so why should others be accurate.
Just my 2 pennyworth and I am not disagreeing with anybody just putting over a point of view.
  #518  
Old 04-14-2021, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
If by the bolded you mean that I think the concept of racism is worse – not than "anything else" but than the Oprah interview – then yes, you're right
I haven't seen anyone who would disagree with that. I have been concentrating on the level of their complaints, which I think are mostly petty as compared to the level of hurt they have caused people who they supposedly loved who are not racist.


Quote:
I could second your argument and say if you want to be outraged on behalf of a bunch of rich celebrities because someone did an interview that hurt them, fine. I'm reserving my outrage for discrimination directed at other people on the basis of their race, sexual orientation, gender orientation or social class
Fair enough.

ETA: actually, I am going to amend my answer after reading Hallo Girl's excellent point. I don't want to be outraged on behalf or a rich celebrity who is making allegations of racism that I believe are probably unfair. If you want to be outraged everytime someone alleges discrimination regardless of the merits of the complaint that is up to you. But I think false claims of racism are just as bad as actual racism because it makes it harder for real victims to be believed.
  #519  
Old 04-14-2021, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
ETA: actually, I am going to amend my answer after reading Hallo Girl's excellent point. I don't want to be outraged on behalf or a rich celebrity who is making allegations of racism that I believe are probably unfair. If you want to be outraged everytime someone alleges discrimination regardless of the merits of the complaint that is up to you. But I think false claims of racism are just as bad as actual racism because it makes it harder for real victims to be believed.
Actually, I think false accusations of racism might be worse than completely truthful accusations of racism. I know some would disagree with me but I think it's true if for no other reason than the fact that they cast doubt and suspicions on those who aren't guilty of such a heinous thing and because it creates a bit of "boy who cried wolf" situation when someone is actually dealing with the awfulness that is racism.
  #520  
Old 04-14-2021, 03:04 PM
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That is just speculation by Ingrid...but if itís true, then itís disturbing because it means Harry canít see past this one moment in time




https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1423109/prince-harry-philip-funeral-departure-meghan-markle-pregnant-royal-family-latest-vn/amp?__twitter_impression=true
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