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  #481  
Old 04-13-2021, 10:45 PM
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Just imagined the Duke of Edinburgh dropping in on this conversation and saying "loose lips sink ships". Sounds like something a navy man would say eh?
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  #482  
Old 04-13-2021, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
One thing I can bet my last Oreo cookie on is that there'll be a beeline to Meghan after Harry returns hoping to pick up a scoop or three on the "inside story" of Harry's time back in the UK with his family.

I hope Harry does stay closed mouth and keeps things to himself. If so, as time passes, there'll be no scoops to be had from the Sussexes and perhaps fences can be mended. If Meghan or Harry give a "scoop" that is made public, it'll just widen the divide that already exists and further alienate the Sussexes from the British royal family.

The less said at this time, the better.
This is all very well put. I totally agree with you that it would probably make your head spin how fast ďfriendsĒ like Gayle and Scobie will be knocking on the door and burning up the phone lines as soon as Harry returns.

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Originally Posted by UglyAmerican View Post
Harry might be in a pretty difficult spot here. I suppose he might have been the one who called up Gayle King, but it doesn't seem likely. He might have just told his wife about his conversation with his brother, like most people would do, and that was all it took for it to end up on Good Morning America. If he wants to regain the trust of his family, he may need to be more judicious about what he tells Meghan. If he loves her as much as he seems to, he may not think it's worth it.
This is actually a really good point. Maybe it was Harry who spoke directly to Gayle but maybe it wasnít. If not then Iíd love to know if Harry has considered that he might need to be more selective with what he shares with his wife if he ever wants to have any hope at all of beginning to repair relationships with his family.
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  #483  
Old 04-13-2021, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
Maybe Harry doesn't want to engage in lengthy conversations. I suspect he wants to see his grandmother and smooth things over with his father, but I wouldn't be surprised if he does not care to engage with his brother. A lot of people seem to take the view that the brothers need to make peace with each other, but I have the feeling that the relationship between Harry and William might never be close again and maybe Harry just doesn't care. There are obviously some deep-seated issues between them and perhaps the differences are irreconcilable.
I donít get the overall focus in the press and elsewhere on a reconciliation between William and Harry. Iíve seen plenty of comments suggesting the week of the funeral will provide an opportunity for the family to clear the air and come together.

First of all, I think the immediate aftermath of the death of a loved one is a horrible time to try to hash things out with family members. People are tired, grieving, emotionally raw - not the best state of mind to try to move forward in a productive way.

Second of all, itís been, what, a month since Harry and his wife sat down with Oprah Winfrey and deliberately set out to cause as much damage to the BRF as they possibly could. And that just capped off a year filled with atrocious behaviour. I love my brother dearly, but under those circumstances, it would take quite a bit longer than a month or two before Iíd want to deal with him, and any reconciliation would be a slow, gradual process, with the recognition that Iíd never completely trust him again.

I hope that the brothers can eventually find a different way to relating to each other now that they both have their own families, and that, at some point, they can put the past behind them and enjoy an overall positive relationship. But thatís going to take time.
  #484  
Old 04-14-2021, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
Agreed. And I fully agree that thereís going to be a test, probably several actually, and I wouldnít be surprised at all of Harry failed the first one by running to Gayle King.
If theyíre going to ever heal, theyíre going to have to be honest with each other...and one thing I hope Charles says to Harry is that they canít heal if he allows their conversations to be made public. After that, itís up to him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
I donít get the overall focus in the press and elsewhere on a reconciliation between William and Harry. Iíve seen plenty of comments suggesting the week of the funeral will provide an opportunity for the family to clear the air and come together.

First of all, I think the immediate aftermath of the death of a loved one is a horrible time to try to hash things out with family members. People are tired, grieving, emotionally raw - not the best state of mind to try to move forward in a productive way.

Second of all, itís been, what, a month since Harry and his wife sat down with Oprah Winfrey and deliberately set out to cause as much damage to the BRF as they possibly could. And that just capped off a year filled with atrocious behaviour. I love my brother dearly, but under those circumstances, it would take quite a bit longer than a month or two before Iíd want to deal with him, and any reconciliation would be a slow, gradual process, with the recognition that Iíd never completely trust him again.

I hope that the brothers can eventually find a different way to relating to each other now that they both have their own families, and that, at some point, they can put the past behind them and enjoy an overall positive relationship. But thatís going to take time.
I believe I said this before, but what I would hope would happen during this time would be for Charles, Harry and William to try and begin to heal. That doesnít mean rehashing their grievances, but it does mean acknowledging that there has been miscommunication on all ends, and very likely honest misunderstandings. Now would be a good time for them to admit that, despite their hurt and anger, they love each other deeply. Thatís a start.

I would also point out that Charles could use his relationship with his father as a perfect example that relationships can heal...and, even greatly improve. They donít have to be perfect now, but simply believing that they can and will get better is all I think they can ask.

It will be easier for Charles and Harry to reconcile than for William and Harry, as I described above. But, again, baby steps...
  #485  
Old 04-14-2021, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UglyAmerican View Post
Harry might be in a pretty difficult spot here. I suppose he might have been the one who called up Gayle King, but it doesn't seem likely. He might have just told his wife about his conversation with his brother, like most people would do, and that was all it took for it to end up on Good Morning America. If he wants to regain the trust of his family, he may need to be more judicious about what he tells Meghan. If he loves her as much as he seems to, he may not think it's worth it.
That's what bothers me a lot. People keep blaming Meghan, but it's Harry who leaks the stories to her. He did not have to tell her the story, if true, that a royal was wondering about the skin color of their baby. That was completely unnecessary for her to know and get upset about.
  #486  
Old 04-14-2021, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Queen Ester View Post
That's what bothers me a lot. People keep blaming Meghan, but it's Harry who leaks the stories to her.
You would think Harry and Meghan would have learned that by now? Maybe they need to find new people to hang out with who will not use them especially to give their private conversations to people in the media and they need to stop giving away private conversations of the Royal family to people like Gayle King (or really anyone) who has no good Intentions and is only looking to simply stir the pot and create gossips
  #487  
Old 04-14-2021, 01:01 AM
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My feeling is the BRF is very much capable of showing Compassion...
I hope H&M are open to recognise it and not thinking that they should have the Compassion-monopoly.

But at the funeral imo we will see a very much 'together' (can't think of a better word, early morning, english translation unit still starting up) family..
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  #488  
Old 04-14-2021, 01:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Ester View Post
That's what bothers me a lot. People keep blaming Meghan, but it's Harry who leaks the stories to her. He did not have to tell her the story, if true, that a royal was wondering about the skin color of their baby. That was completely unnecessary for her to know and get upset about.
Actually if you watch the Gayle King segment she said she spoke to both Harry and Meghan and she repeatedly references "the couple". However for some reason people seem determined that Meghan was the one who told Gayle that the talks were unproductive. It could have very well been Harry. We simply just don't know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACO View Post
They should also start with their own sources blabbing to the likes of Camilla Tominey and Roya Nikkah. Iím just saying.
Amen. It is interested that Roya Nikkah reported that the brothers spoke over the weekend before Gayle King did.It goes both ways!
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  #489  
Old 04-14-2021, 01:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alisa View Post
Actually if you watch the Gayle King segment she said she spoke to both Harry and Meghan and she repeatedly references "the couple". However for some reason people seem determined that Meghan was the one who told Gayle that the talks were unproductive. It could have very well been Harry. We simply just don't know.
I just re-watched it, and she doesn't say which of them she spoke with. Saying "the couple" wants such-and-such could mean "each of them told me this separately," or it could mean "one of them told me that they both want this." I agree that we don't know, but I just find it easier to believe that Meghan decided to pour her heart out to a reporter than Harry did. He said plenty he shouldn't have said to Oprah, but he was didn't seem anywhere near as enthusiastic about the whole thing as Meghan did.

I agree about the leaks from the family's side, if in fact there are any. Those articles are usually written in such a way that it's impossible to be sure - and of course, that's not an accident. But I don't think a direct comparison makes enough allowances for their differing circumstances. The positions of the working royals mean they basically have to be surrounded by staff 24/7, or very nearly. William's staff will know that he spoke with Harry on the phone, and even if they don't hear what was said, they're going to see whether he seemed happy or upset afterward. The royals can fire staff if they catch them leaking that sort of thing, but they can't completely solve the problem, because the fired person would have to be replaced by someone else with the same level of access.

Harry and Meghan, on the other hand, have no such requirements. If they have live-in staff, it's by their own choice. If their jobs or lifestyles require live-in staff, that too is their own choice. If there are unauthorized media leaks that they don't like, they have for more options for plugging them. If even half the stuff coming from their side from anonymous sources was unauthorized, I think they'd have done so by now. That's why my default is to assume that anything purportedly leaked from their side was authorized.

I cut them a lot more slack here before it came out that Meghan had cooperated with Finding Freedom while publicly denying involvement, and that she'd asked several of her friends to speak to reporters about the contents of her letter to her father. Because they were only publicly quoted as anonymous sources, she was able to publicly disclaim involvement. As far as I'm aware, none of the other working royals have ever been proven to have done anything like that - at least, not recently. So between those two things, I'm much more willing to give the other royals the benefit of the doubt as to whether leaks were authorized or not.
  #490  
Old 04-14-2021, 03:33 AM
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The Queen hardly appeared in public when she was visibly pregnant, never mind flew from the US Pacific Coast to London. I'm sure she didn't expect Meghan to come, and certainly wouldn't want her to put her health and the baby's at any risk.


I doubt Harry will stay long, because he'll want to get back to Meghan because of her condition. And no-one's officially supposed to be going into other people's homes at the moment, although I suppose he and Charles and William could talk in the garden. This weekend's about Prince Philip and the Queen, although it would be nice if there could be some sort of rapprochement. The Queen herself knows all about family feuds - I'd think she was probably quite sad when Uncle David suddenly disappeared from her life, even though she'll have understood the reasons why - and I'm sure she won't want that sort of ongoing bad feeling happening again in this generation.
  #491  
Old 04-14-2021, 03:37 AM
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Even if the queen's still hurt and angry, she'll put it aside for now.. and Harry wotn be staying long. but Im sure she wont want an open rift.. but how much they are going to reconcile, Im not sure.
  #492  
Old 04-14-2021, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLLK View Post
Well the Dutch royal family dealt with a somewhat similar case of publicly "airing laundry" in the early 2000's with Princess Margarita and her first husband Edwin De Roy van Zuydewijn. The couple made some rather surprising allegations against the Royal House and Queen Beatrix. Likewise I don't believe that it did the couple any good in the end.
In the beginning they could count on some sympathy with the public. During this period and according to the princess, her aunt, Queen Beatrix, had told her 'Margarita it seems that a little devil has creeped into you' in one of six conversations that they had prior to the escalation as the princess and her husband thought the RF was working against the couple and tried to ruin Edwin's carreer.

The press and the public loved to read the rather juicy stories and there was sympathy for the couple. But in the course of several months public opinion turned, mostly due to television interviews which showed a rather curious interaction between the pair. The Princess was soon considered the naive and unworldly puppet of the increasingly incoherrent and paranoid Edwin de Roy van Z. In today's language one would consider Edwin the abuser perhaps.

The accusations were far more serious: abuse of power by the royal family, unlawful use of the secret service, hidden listening devices ... the prime minister was forced to step in. It resulted in a slap stick moment where the national press gathered in the office where the listening device was supposed to be hidden... only to discover that it was a nail in the wall.

In public the RF only commented once. During a state visit to Chile in 2003 the Queen said that the family did not recognise itself in the descriptions, while expressing deep concern for her niece and asking for privacy. The prime minister Prof. Dr. Balkenende did however have to answer a barrage of questions in parlament, there was even a debate dedicated to the subject in March 2003. Neither the princess nor her husband were invited to the wedding of WA and MŠxima -which was the first time people understood something may be wrong. She was invited to the funeral of both her grandparents but her then-husband was not. I don't think she attended the funeral of Prince Claus, or the weddings of Friso, Pieter-Christiaan and Floris.

Fortunately the princess came to her senses and divorced Edwin. She is now re-married and has two daughters. She was welcomed back into the family. Trust slowly seems to have been restored but that took several years. Her ex-husband has turned into a paranoid wreck, financially ruined, unemployed and claiming to hide from the long arm of the Dutch state in the countryside in Portugal while trying to sue his ex-wife for alimony.

The only other person who comes close may be prince Laurent of Belgium who from time to time offers some insights in his frustrations regarding his family. His half-aunt Princess Marie-Christine has talked to the press some decades ago and her comments were not positive at all - mostly about her mother and an alleged rape by a royal relative. In the UK there was of course the duke of Windsor, who was rather acid about his family in his memoires, claiming that the women of his family 'have ice water in their veins'. And there was the late Pss of Wales of course.

The claims of the duke and duchess of Sussex are rather tame in comparison but due to the dominance of the English language and Anglo-Saxon popular culture this issue has turned into a media-spectacle of an enormous scale.
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  #493  
Old 04-14-2021, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Ester View Post
That's what bothers me a lot. People keep blaming Meghan, but it's Harry who leaks the stories to her. He did not have to tell her the story, if true, that a royal was wondering about the skin color of their baby. That was completely unnecessary for her to know and get upset about.
This is true but I think itís a bit of six of one, half dozen of the other. He doesnít have to tell her everything but she should have the good sense not to share what he tells her with reporters, friends, and the world.

And thatís if, indeed, it was she who has told it all rather than him or a combination of the two. But I do think that clearly Harry and Meghan know which of the two of them have shared these things and itíll be very, very interesting to see how much is shared with us from the mouths of Gayle and Scobie after Harry returns from the funeral.
  #494  
Old 04-14-2021, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
This is true but I think itís a bit of six of one, half dozen of the other. He doesnít have to tell her everything but she should have the good sense not to share what he tells her with reporters, friends, and the world.

And thatís if, indeed, it was she who has told it all rather than him or a combination of the two. But I do think that clearly Harry and Meghan know which of the two of them have shared these things and itíll be very, very interesting to see how much is shared with us from the mouths of Gayle and Scobie after Harry returns from the funeral.
IMO, if Harry genuinely wants to mend fences with his family, he will be a black hole of information. More practically, if he wants to keep whatever positive reputation he has, heíd better be a black hole of information (except to Meghan, but in that case heíd need to make clear that she has to be one as well). The interview and subsequent blathering by King were bad enough; revealing even more personal conversations would almost sound the death knell for certain relationships.
  #495  
Old 04-14-2021, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
The Queen hardly appeared in public when she was visibly pregnant, never mind flew from the US Pacific Coast to London. I'm sure she didn't expect Meghan to come, and certainly wouldn't want her to put her health and the baby's at any risk.
.
I bet The Queen understands why Meghan cannot make the trip from California to UK being that she is probably in her third trimester.
The Queen was prevented from travelling to the USA when the US President JF Kennedy died because the Queen was five months pregnant, and so Prince Philip travelled and represented the Royal Family at that funeral.
  #496  
Old 04-14-2021, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
(...) What exactly happened between the Sussexes and TRF, we donít know. Only one side is talking and the other wonít. The Sussexes knew that. They whined about people they knew couldnít respond

(...)

Also- there is the fact that Harry and Meghan allowed an interview to air that accused the family of racism- telling a story they canít even relate in the same way- which threw the whole family under a cloud of suspicion.....including his elderly grandparents. Harry didnít bother to correct the latter for hours. His grandfather was in the hospital. That is reprehensible in my mind. The racism accusation literally impacts everyone- the royal family, their kids, etc. Plenty of injured parties right there (...)
Surely, accusations of racism are no worse than the racism that may have transpired? And that's the crux of my argument (which also isn't that the BRF is not the injured party, as you seem to suggest). While the BRF (and the firm) is afforded the benefit of doubt (because we don't know what's happened), H&M are crucified for relaying the story (although we still don't know what happened). And I find that's a consistant theme throughout discussions about the Sussexes and I just think that's puzzling.

Also regardless of what anyone may think of the interview (I definitely think it should've been done different), considering the gravity of some of the issues discussed, I think it's extremely inappropriate to insinuate that they were just "whining" or trying to gain sympathy. If one's recognising that for now, for us, there's no way of knowing what's right and what's wrong, surely there's not need to downplay H&M's experiences like that.
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  #497  
Old 04-14-2021, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
In the beginning they could count on some sympathy with the public. During this period and according to the princess, her aunt, Queen Beatrix, had told her 'Margarita it seems that a little devil has creeped into you' in one of six conversations that they had prior to the escalation as the princess and her husband thought the RF was working against the couple and tried to ruin Edwin's carreer.

The press and the public loved to read the rather juicy stories and there was sympathy for the couple. But in the course of several months public opinion turned, mostly due to television interviews which showed a rather curious interaction between the pair. The Princess was soon considered the naive and unworldly puppet of the increasingly incoherrent and paranoid Edwin de Roy van Z. In today's language one would consider Edwin the abuser perhaps.

The accusations were far more serious: abuse of power by the royal family, unlawful use of the secret service, hidden listening devices ... the prime minister was forced to step in. It resulted in a slap stick moment where the national press gathered in the office where the listening device was supposed to be hidden... only to discover that it was a nail in the wall.

In public the RF only commented once. During a state visit to Chile in 2003 the Queen said that the family did not recognise itself in the descriptions, while expressing deep concern for her niece and asking for privacy. The prime minister Prof. Dr. Balkenende did however have to answer a barrage of questions in parlament, there was even a debate dedicated to the subject in March 2003. Neither the princess nor her husband were invited to the wedding of WA and MŠxima -which was the first time people understood something may be wrong. She was invited to the funeral of both her grandparents but her then-husband was not. I don't think she attended the funeral of Prince Claus, or the weddings of Friso, Pieter-Christiaan and Floris.

Fortunately the princess came to her senses and divorced Edwin. She is now re-married and has two daughters. She was welcomed back into the family. Trust slowly seems to have been restored but that took several years. Her ex-husband has turned into a paranoid wreck, financially ruined, unemployed and claiming to hide from the long arm of the Dutch state in the countryside in Portugal while trying to sue his ex-wife for alimony.

The only other person who comes close may be prince Laurent of Belgium who from time to time offers some insights in his frustrations regarding his family. His half-aunt Princess Marie-Christine has talked to the press some decades ago and her comments were not positive at all - mostly about her mother and an alleged rape by a royal relative. In the UK there was of course the duke of Windsor, who was rather acid about his family in his memoires, claiming that the women of his family 'have ice water in their veins'. And there was the late Pss of Wales of course.

The claims of the duke and duchess of Sussex are rather tame in comparison but due to the dominance of the English language and Anglo-Saxon popular culture this issue has turned into a media-spectacle of an enormous scale.


Thank you Marengo. I recalled the beginning of their claims against the Royal House. Then I later learned that they'd divorced and she'd remarried. However there was plenty of information in between that I was unaware of. Yes the claims they made against the Royal House were far more serious than those made by the Sussexes.
  #498  
Old 04-14-2021, 10:12 AM
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The Duke & Duchess of Sussex & Family - General News April 2021 -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
Surely, accusations of racism are no worse than the racism that may have transpired? And that's the crux of my argument (which also isn't that the BRF is not the injured party, as you seem to suggest). While the BRF (and the firm) is afforded the benefit of doubt (because we don't know what's happened), H&M are crucified for relaying the story (although we still don't know what happened). And I find that's a consistant theme throughout discussions about the Sussexes and I just think that's puzzling.



Also regardless of what anyone may think of the interview (I definitely think it should've been done different), considering the gravity of some of the issues discussed, I think it's extremely inappropriate to insinuate that they were just "whining" or trying to gain sympathy. If one's recognising that for now, for us, there's no way of knowing what's right and what's wrong, surely there's not need to downplay H&M's experiences like that.

My biggest issue with the Sussexes relaying their alleged experiences is that they did so at all. My feelings on that wonít change. I think it was both inappropriate and unnecessary.

What they did is about akin to the rest of us getting on Facebook and talking about a family feud. Not something I care for either. And Iíve seen it happen in my own family. Nothing good comes of that IMO. The Sussexes just had a much bigger stage than the rest of us.

As best I can tell one purpose of the interview was a sympathy grab. (I could say revenge was a possible motive too.)Thatís what comes across to me. It certainly seemed like the intent was to drag TRF through the mud in any way they could think of. Why else did they do it? What was the point? There was no need to know. There is no evidence, thus far, of anything. What were they hoping to gain by broadcasting this to the world?

To me, whiny is an appropriate word when a multi millionaire complains about daddy cutting him off after he chose to leave the family business. That is one example. I could come up with more.

Yes- they made serious accusations. But I really have nothing else to say on the racism issue than I already have.
  #499  
Old 04-14-2021, 10:34 AM
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Well this is...interesting. I have to say, if itís true, it sounds very much like the child who is sorry they got caught but not sorry they did something wrong. They have regrets about the timing but still feel it was something they had to do? They needed to have their say and couldnít see any other way to do it? Really?

Anyway, interesting if true.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/146445...lip-death/amp/
  #500  
Old 04-14-2021, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
Well this is...interesting. I have to say, if itís true, it sounds very much like the child who is sorry they got caught but not sorry they did something wrong. They have regrets about the timing but still feel it was something they had to do? They needed to have their say and couldnít see any other way to do it? Really?

Anyway, interesting if true.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/146445...lip-death/amp/
I've read that. It is The Sun so who knows, but if it does come from their camp then they don't seem very sorry.

Quote:
"They needed to have their say, and they couldn't see any other way to do it."
Really? You can't think of any other way to solve your family difficulties without airing your dirty laundry out in front of 50 million people? And at least 12 things you claimed have been proven to be lies or exaggerated? Or giving a morning show host the details of attempts to talk afterwards and how it isn't exactly what you wanted?

Needed people to be on their side to launch their new projects IMHO.

Quote:
"Harry and Meghan's love and respect for Prince Philip and the Queen was never in doubt."
I know when I love and respect them I trash the thing they've dedicated their lives to and publicly trash talk their other beloved relatives. And go on the attack when I know a 99 year old is critically ill in hospital.

This seems like it might be part of the PR offensive in the face of world wide mourning and sympathy for the Queen and the rest of the family (which includes Harry).

I completely rolled my eyes at a story that popped up on my news feed this morning assuring me that HM completely understood why Meghan really wanted to be there but couldn't come. I think she's got a lot more on her mind than that.

I hope that they can all get through the next few days together as a family but after that I have no idea what will happen.
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The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 3: March - April 2021 Jacknch Current Events Archive 2203 04-06-2021 12:08 PM




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