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  #441  
Old 04-13-2021, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
I agree that the reaction of the media has been very different in the U.S. However, first and foremost, Harry loves his family and wants to find a way a forward. I doubt the Queen or Charles would refuse to let them attend an event like the Trooping of the Color or the Jubilee. A few weeks ago, I would have believed that they would get a very chilly reception from the other royals whenever they came. But I think now more than ever, the family and even the public will pull together to support the Queen.

The more cynical side to me also thinks that they need the royal family more than the royal family needs them. I agree that the public has long memories and Harry and Meghan will probably never be completed forgiven or trusted. But there are a series of events that they will want to be part of to raise their profile for their "brand".

To do that, they will have to be at least tolerated. No one will jeer their presence as long as they are with the Queen. Appearing with the Queen in a few major public events (with minor royals and nonroyal family) and visiting her at Balmoral this summer, spending Christmas with her, etc. is the only way they will ever be tolerated in Britain.

I fully admit that I may be misreading the situation and am interested in hearing other people's thoughts.
No doubt they might want to be part of those events; but that isn't the same as the BRF allowing them to be part of them. Especially as they are most likely aware that part of the reason they want to participate is to raise their own profile.

If they are serious about amending rifts within their family; they might want to start with Meghan's father. Of course, any contact might end up in the media as her father might talk; but that is exactly the same position the BRF is in - as H&M might (have others) talk about that. So, if they show to be willing to take that risk and are able to heal that rift, that might show some real interest in healing family bonds - not just for the sake of their own profile but for the sake of genuine family relationships.
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  #442  
Old 04-13-2021, 05:05 PM
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So now it's going to be CamillaTomeny vs GayleKing now? How sad. Let the family mourn Prince Philip in peace.
But these things are "legitimate" news since Harry and Meghan decided to air their personal dirty laundry extremely publicly just a month ago, when Prince Philip himself was in hospital.

CT is just doing what every other royal report and many non royal reporters are doing, writing about the family dynamics going into the funeral in light of everything that's happened. She parroted the party line, that everyone is focused on a show of unity and fully supporting HM during this very difficult time.

Notice she didn't go into specifics and say "I personally talked to William and he said the talks were unproductive and he's angry because Harry really should be focused on X instead of Y. Why is no one talking about X?!"
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  #443  
Old 04-13-2021, 05:08 PM
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...

but I think it will take a long time before things are better...
When you have a 95 year old recently widowed relative, you really canít wait a very long time to make things better... It may be now or never.
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  #444  
Old 04-13-2021, 05:09 PM
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The one I feel saddest for in all of this is Archie and his soon-to-be-born Sister. Unless they move back to the U.K. they will never know Harry's side of the family (including Diana family) possibly seeing them at least once a year at most. Meghan doesn't talk to her dad or his side of the family and from what I can see she only talks to her Mom. I have not to head anything about her mom's side of the family.

They will only really have each other. They were taken away from what really was the only family they had.
How do we know they are not in contact with the Spencers? Harry has seemed to be very close to them. They were at his son's christening in fact. Living far away doesn't mean you can't have relationships. I think the Windsors and Spencers ate very different situations and relationships.

If they want a relationship with Archie and his sister they can want one.
  #445  
Old 04-13-2021, 05:11 PM
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As I see it, forgiveness is hard to give when no one is asking for it. If anything, Harry and Meghan think they are the injured party, aka the side that can grant forgiveness.
But they may well be the injured party I think it's astounding how it seems to have been collectively decided on here that the BRF has done no wrong. There's no way of knowing the specifics of what's went down, but it's not lost on me how only one party seems to get the benefit of doubt.
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  #446  
Old 04-13-2021, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
But they may well be the injured party I think it's astounding how it seems to have been collectively decided on here that the BRF has done no wrong. There's no way of knowing the specifics of what's went down, but it's not lost on me how only one party seems to get the benefit of doubt.
They may well be the injured party, of course. The thing is, most of their complaints look childish to me. The ones that weren't disproven as factually wrong, I mean. The BRF might have done terrible things but this far, most of what I've heard from Harry and Meghan is the who made who cry, the "Meghan was left unprecedently unprotected against the tabloids" claim, "They won't give our child a title because of racism" and so on. If that's the worst Harry and Meghan have, I can't see them as the injured party but solely the injuring one.


ETA: The blame is never fully on one side, of course. But this far, what Harry and Meghan have presented doesn't strike me as a realistic reason for FF, let alone the interview.
  #447  
Old 04-13-2021, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Moran View Post
They may well be the injured party, of course. The thing is, most of their complaints look childish to me. The ones that weren't disproven as factually wrong, I mean. The BRF might have done terrible things but this far, most of what I've heard from Harry and Meghan is the who made who cry, the "Meghan was left unprecedently unprotected against the tabloids" claim, "They won't give our child a title because of racism" and so on. If that's the worst Harry and Meghan have, I can't see them as the injured party but solely the injuring one.
The most damage has been done by taking internal family problems and disagreements and hurt feelings into the public domain. That is blatantly trying to force public opinion in their favor against not only the British royal family but also the monarchy and it's "Firm".

Both Harry and William grew up with an idea of the "circle of trust" and had their own ways of determining if someone was to be included in that circle. Harry, himself, has violated something he had depended on as far as trust was concerned for most of his life. I can't see Harry ever being allowed into William's "circle of trust" ever again as once trust is destroyed, it's almost impossible to restore again. They may be civil towards one another but I don't see the Cambridges and the Sussexes having a close family relationship going forward. It's really kind of sad.
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  #448  
Old 04-13-2021, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
The most damage has been done by taking internal family problems and disagreements and hurt feelings into the public domain. That is blatantly trying to force public opinion in their favor against not only the British royal family but also the monarchy and it's "Firm".

Both Harry and William grew up with an idea of the "circle of trust" and had their own ways of determining if someone was to be included in that circle. Harry, himself, has violated something he had depended on as far as trust was concerned for most of his life. I can't see Harry ever being allowed into William's "circle of trust" ever again as once trust is destroyed, it's almost impossible to restore again. They may be civil towards one another but I don't see the Cambridges and the Sussexes having a close family relationship going forward. It's really kind of sad.
It is. That's why I find the talks about forgiveness so out of place. First, trust is very important for any of us but it's literally vital for the RF because most of us don't live our lives on the world stage. And second, Harry and Meghan don't seem to seek forgiveness which invalidates the whole premise of restoring trust.
  #449  
Old 04-13-2021, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Moran View Post
They may well be the injured party, of course. The thing is, most of their complaints look childish to me. The ones that weren't disproven as factually wrong, I mean. The BRF might have done terrible things but this far, most of what I've heard from Harry and Meghan is the who made who cry, the "Meghan was left unprecedently unprotected against the tabloids" claim, "They won't give our child a title because of racism" and so on. If that's the worst Harry and Meghan have, I can't see them as the injured party but solely the injuring one.
I don't think they were wrong in their claims that the firm wasn't exactly helpful to them. Let's also not pretend the allegations of racism don't run a lot deeper than "just" the claims regarding the titles... If you afford one party the benefit of doubt, it rings a bit hollow if you don't extend it to the other party as well.
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  #450  
Old 04-13-2021, 05:38 PM
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I think trust is likely to be an issue. Forgiving is one thing- really letting someone back into your life is another.

Whether Philipís death coming so soon after the interview helps or hurts any potential reconciliation process is really hard to say. Could go either way IMO. Especially since he was slammed on social media for hours until Harry made the statement.

As for Harry and Meghan from a public Pov- I think everyone will support HMís decisions- but whether or not that ever includes something like Trooping (and whether theyíd even want to attend) is hard to say IMO. The mood of the public may be a factor in public events too.
For now, as to the rift, Iím only going to speak as to Charles, William and Harry as we simply donít know enough regarding the rest of the BRF - and frankly, itís the first two who the latter hurt the most.

As I spoke about above, Charles as father will badly want to start the healing process - between he and H and especially between his sons (he can control his part of his relationship with H, but he canít control anything with regards to W and H). That means getting everyone to open up, to TALK - and that will be much easier in person. I think there has been a lot of miscommunication between all 3, to be honest (that is, between C and H and W and H). The goal wouldnít be to reestablish trust - that can only happen over time, and organically - but rather at least a desire to heal and to reopen the lines of communication. I think they all need to at least remember that they do all love each other...and tell each other that.

Charles is probably less angry (not saying he wasnít, though) than hurt, and William is probably more angry than hurt, so I think the C and H will be easier to heal than W and H. Thatís ok - baby steps.

As to public functions, I think that will just be left, again, wide open. Even if the BRF never really feels the same about M again, as long as sheís married to H, theyíll still consider her part of the family. I suspect there will be a standing invitation to appear (not as they used to, of course). Whether they will, who knows? I do think at some point H would....and my gut says M might as well one day, but Iím not going to predict anything.
  #451  
Old 04-13-2021, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
I don't think they were wrong in their claims that the firm wasn't exactly helpful to them. Let's also not pretend the allegations of racism don't run a lot deeper than "just" the claims regarding the titles...If you afford one party the benefit of doubt, it rings a bit hollow if you don't extend it to the other party as well.
I said there were claims I found proven wrong and the "they didn't give Archie a title because of racism" was one of them.

I actually did afford Harry and Meghan the benefit of doubt by suggesting what I thought about the claims they made without excluding the possibility that there were real offences.

Since you suggested that Harry and Meghan might have been "the" injured party, isn't it the same non-allowance of the benefit of doubt that you're blaming me of, only placed on the other party?
  #452  
Old 04-13-2021, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Moran View Post
I said there were claims I found proven wrong and the "they didn't give Archie a title because of racism" was one of them.



I actually did afford Harry and Meghan the benefit of doubt by suggesting what I thought about the claims they made without excluding the possibility that there were real offences.



Since you suggested that Harry and Meghan might have been "the" injured party, isn't it the same non-allowance of the benefit of doubt that you're blaming me of, only placed on the other party?
The crux of the matter lies in the fact that all these accusations and implications and wrongdoings between members of a family were purposely brought into the public domain and the minds and thoughts of people that really have no *real* idea what went on behind the scenes or even know these people. For the general public, it's like watching a scripted soap opera where you tune in every day to see what your favorite hero or villain is up to.

Doing this purposely puts *all* of us in the position of forming an opinion based on what we've seen and heard and now getting feedback on from every one and their pet meerkat to influence that opinion we hold. Frankly, I'm starting to find it all rather tiresome. It's really a shame that *this* is what the Sussex brand is going to be "branded" with. Then again, that probably goes along with the thought than any publicity is good publicity.

I really have to laugh sometimes too as I go through my Facebook feed and see a video pop up about Harry and Meghan that lists them as "The Duke and Duchess of Essex". I scrolled past that thing as fast as possible but that's what a *lot* of stuff out there these days are like.
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  #453  
Old 04-13-2021, 06:07 PM
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https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity...e-for-funeral/

According to this, he only plans to stay a week. If he can't leave quarantine until Saturday, and the funeral takes up most of the day Saturday, and then he turns around and leaves Sunday, that doesn't leave much time for personal conversations.

All the usual disclaimers about unnamed sources apply, of course.
  #454  
Old 04-13-2021, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Moran View Post
I said there were claims I found proven wrong and the "they didn't give Archie a title because of racism" was one of them.

I actually did afford Harry and Meghan the benefit of doubt by suggesting what I thought about the claims they made without excluding the possibility that there were real offences.

Since you suggested that Harry and Meghan might have been "the" injured party, isn't it the same non-allowance of the benefit of doubt that you're blaming me of, only placed on the other party?
I'm not gonna go into a debate about whether or not that was "proven wrong" but it clearly wasn't the only allegation of racism they made, so the examples you listed clearly weren't "the worst" they've got.

Benefit of doubt isn't mutually exclusive. I'm not the one consistently making it out as though only one party's to blame. None of us know what's really happened, so I'd just wish we'd move on from placing all the blame on one party because we don't like an interview they've done.
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  #455  
Old 04-13-2021, 06:20 PM
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For now, as to the rift, Iím only going to speak as to Charles, William and Harry as we simply donít know enough regarding the rest of the BRF - and frankly, itís the first two who the latter hurt the most.

As I spoke about above, Charles as father will badly want to start the healing process - between he and H and especially between his sons (he can control his part of his relationship with H, but he canít control anything with regards to W and H). That means getting everyone to open up, to TALK - and that will be much easier in person. I think there has been a lot of miscommunication between all 3, to be honest (that is, between C and H and W and H). The goal wouldnít be to reestablish trust - that can only happen over time, and organically - but rather at least a desire to heal and to reopen the lines of communication. I think they all need to at least remember that they do all love each other...and tell each other that.

Charles is probably less angry (not saying he wasnít, though) than hurt, and William is probably more angry than hurt, so I think the C and H will be easier to heal than W and H. Thatís ok - baby steps.

As to public functions, I think that will just be left, again, wide open. Even if the BRF never really feels the same about M again, as long as sheís married to H, theyíll still consider her part of the family. I suspect there will be a standing invitation to appear (not as they used to, of course). Whether they will, who knows? I do think at some point H would....and my gut says M might as well one day, but Iím not going to predict anything.
I actually agree with a lot of this. I can see Charles and Harry mending things faster just because, as pointed out, the dynamic is different. But we obviously have no idea. I just wish healing on all sides.

I don't think any of them are saints. I think hurt has happened on all sides and hopefully they all can own up to it and work it out. But it will take time and a want for that to really happen.
  #456  
Old 04-13-2021, 06:36 PM
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I actually agree with a lot of this. I can see Charles and Harry mending things faster just because, as pointed out, the dynamic is different. But we obviously have no idea. I just wish healing on all sides.

I don't think any of them are saints. I think hurt has happened on all sides and hopefully they all can own up to it and work it out. But it will take time and a want for that to really happen.
I think we all wish healing for them...

They are no more perfect or less than any of us -and as a family, they are just like all of us when you put aside the Royal accoutrements. Their issues sound like a lot of what I read in advice columns: resentment, frustration at place in the family, desire to protect, miscommunication, hurt....all the kind of stuff you see in families.

The worst thing would be if they had to live with regret - should anything happen to any of them. Thatís one lesson I think all this death has taught us - you just donít ever know when the last time is that youíll be able to see your family and tell them how you feel. They all need to put aside their pride.
  #457  
Old 04-13-2021, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
But they may well be the injured party I think it's astounding how it seems to have been collectively decided on here that the BRF has done no wrong. There's no way of knowing the specifics of what's went down, but it's not lost on me how only one party seems to get the benefit of doubt.

I do not believe that one side is completely innocent. Mistakes were made on both sides, and both sides feel injured. IMO, to begin a healing process, both sides have to own to what they did. And you're right, nobody knows the whole truth but the parties concerned.

Carrying a grudge through life can be a burden and exhausting to all concerned, so both sides might want to iron it out. They don't have to be BFFs.
  #458  
Old 04-13-2021, 06:45 PM
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The Duke & Duchess of Sussex & Family - General News April 2021 -

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Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
But they may well be the injured party I think it's astounding how it seems to have been collectively decided on here that the BRF has done no wrong. There's no way of knowing the specifics of what's went down, but it's not lost on me how only one party seems to get the benefit of doubt.


Iím not saying the BRF handled everything perfectly. Theyíre human, of course.

But- I think the interview all by itself makes the TRF an injured party too no matter what. I donít think private grievances should be aired publicly. Period. You sure donít do it when you have 2 elderly grandparents who will be impacted by what you say.

What exactly happened between the Sussexes and TRF, we donít know. Only one side is talking and the other wonít. The Sussexes knew that. They whined about people they knew couldnít respond.

Furthermore- I do know this: the Sussexes told proven lies during the interview and related private conversations during and after the interview. Plenty to be upset with right there.

Also- there is the fact that Harry and Meghan allowed an interview to air that accused the family of racism- telling a story they canít even relate in the same way- which threw the whole family under a cloud of suspicion.....including his elderly grandparents. Harry didnít bother to correct the latter for hours. His grandfather was in the hospital. That is reprehensible in my mind. The racism accusation literally impacts everyone- the royal family, their kids, etc. Plenty of injured parties right there.

This is just off the top of my head.

So- yes- I think TRF are an injured party. Iím sure some of this is a 2 way street- no one is perfect- but only one side made private matters public- and did it pretty obviously as a sympathy ploy.
  #459  
Old 04-13-2021, 06:50 PM
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No breaking news but apparently, Meghan and the Queen spoke and the Queen understands why Meghan couldn't attend. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-flown-US.html
  #460  
Old 04-13-2021, 06:55 PM
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I think we all wish healing for them...

They are no more perfect or less than any of us -and as a family, they are just like all of us when you put aside the Royal accoutrements. Their issues sound like a lot of what I read in advice columns: resentment, frustration at place in the family, desire to protect, miscommunication, hurt....all the kind of stuff you see in families.

The worst thing would be if they had to live with regret - should anything happen to any of them. Thatís one lesson I think all this death has taught us - you just donít ever know when the last time is that youíll be able to see your family and tell them how you feel. They all need to put aside their pride.
Agree. I sure the other Royal Families in Europe have their fair share of Family drama and issues but they don't get the coverage the British Royals do paticualry in English-speaking Coutnures so we don't really hear about it.
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