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  #3221  
Old 05-25-2021, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
Yes. I don't have a problem with anyone saying royal tours are exhausting, stressful complicated etc. They definitely are. And I'm well aware than many members of the BRF can imagine better ways to spend a rainy weekday than visiting Skegness to open a sports centre.

However most of them have the common sense not to say it and instead acknowledge the important part they play in making sure other people's hard work is showcased and officially thanked. Harry could have phrased it in a way that didn't sound like he was trashing the key things he and Meghan have said they want to keep doing: service and humanitarianism with a common touch.
The irony is, as much as Harry sees himself as the modernizing force that never was, he's kind of stuck in medieval mindset in which the royals can say whatever they want without worrying how it's going to be taken by the people. It is as if he really thinks he's so popular just because that the people should have feel happy and honoured just meeting him even when he regarded them as a nuisance, and one more fortunate than him because they were free. Free to die of hunger, poverty and so on but free anyway.


BTW, that's why I don't give Harry a pass for measuring the world in the terms of his wealthy non-royal friends. He had seen human misery many times but he chose to close his eyes and say it was better than his own privileged life because oh the horrorz, he actually had to do some work in exchange for what he received.
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  #3222  
Old 05-25-2021, 08:50 AM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
Y

However most of them have the common sense not to say it and instead acknowledge the important part they play in making sure other people's hard work is showcased and officially thanked. Harry could have phrased it in a way that didn't sound like he was trashing the key things he and Meghan have said they want to keep doing: service and humanitarianism with a common touch.
but they didn't, or at least H didn't.. so - probably that IS the way he felt about it. I think that while they do still do some "sort of royal charity" work over the past year in the US, ie going to deliver meals for people, going to a school etc... well that might be due to the pandemic or maybe they felt that when they got to the US, they would only do the tours and visits that they wanted to do, just enough to show themselves.. but not ones where the'y'll be bored.

I remember H's tours abroad and I honestly felt... when I took notice of them.. that he was really knocking himself out to "be seen and loved".

I got this vibe that he was just trying too hard, somehow. and perhaps that is what it was. He was putting on an act, trying hard to be noticed and liked.. and perhaps underneath he felt "I dont want to be here, I'm knocking myself out, trying to grin and smile and charm these people and I dont give a damn about them. I hate being here..."
and again perhaps he went home and thought "I gave it my all, gave it 100% and more, and yet, I dont feel like they liked me enough. And I dont like them because they're free...."
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  #3223  
Old 05-25-2021, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Royalist.in.NC View Post
Wow, comparing Dodi to Meghan essentially, and making it a racial narrative ? Wow!!!



And welcome to TRF


Yeah. That really blew me away. Iím surprised the press hasnít made more of that honestly.

I donít personally think Dianaís death had anything to do with Dodiís race. Iím not sure Iíd ever heard that as a contributing factor. There were a lot of factors: a legally drunk driver, making a choice to race through the streets of Paris, not wearing a seatbelt, the publicís obsession with everything Diana and who she dated- which she played a part in too, security that didnít seem to have her best interests at heart, etc. But- I donít see race as playing a role.

I find it interesting that heís now saying he had concerns that Meghan would die just like his mom because she is a POC married to a white man. As stated above- so many poor choices were made that night. I donít really get the comparison honestly. It seems a stretch. Itís not a conclusion I understand.
  #3224  
Old 05-25-2021, 09:13 AM
Majesty
 
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no i Dont think that Dodis' race had anything to do with her death. She was chased because this was her first public romance since her divorce.. and the Fayed security system, mismanaged by Dodi and his father, wasn't very effective.
  #3225  
Old 05-25-2021, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moran View Post
The irony is, as much as Harry sees himself as the modernizing force that never was, he's kind of stuck in medieval mindset in which the royals can say whatever they want without worrying how it's going to be taken by the people. It is as if he really thinks he's so popular just because that the people should have feel happy and honoured just meeting him even when he regarded them as a nuisance, and one more fortunate than him because they were free. Free to die of hunger, poverty and so on but free anyway.


BTW, that's why I don't give Harry a pass for measuring the world in the terms of his wealthy non-royal friends. He had seen human misery many times but he chose to close his eyes and say it was better than his own privileged life because oh the horrorz, he actually had to do some work in exchange for what he received.
Yes. They repeated their demands for the BRF to silence all negative press several times via Gayle, Scobie etc and seem to think it should be possible, which is ludicrous, even though they have stopped big stories appearing before.

I have offered the "rich friends who don't work or do hobby jobs" as an explanation before, but I don't consider it a pass at all, just *maybe* where his head was at. He should know the vast majority of people aren't in that position from visiting people and his time in the army.

The question still remains of exactly what he DID want to do after the Army though.

Quote:
I got this vibe that he was just trying too hard, somehow. and perhaps that is what it was. He was putting on an act, trying hard to be noticed and liked.. and perhaps underneath he felt "I dont want to be here, I'm knocking myself out, trying to grin and smile and charm these people and I dont give a damn about them. I hate being here..."
and again perhaps he went home and thought "I gave it my all, gave it 100% and more, and yet, I dont feel like they liked me enough. And I dont like them because they're free...."
I think he showboated a bit and some of it is obviously an act but I thought he appeared genuine at other times. He stayed in Nepal on his own time to help out, which makes no sense if he wasn't feeling welcomed or truly was "burned out". Though if he was heavily using at this point that certainly wouldn't have helped his state of mind.

He got a good/great reception and good coverage almost all the time.

Obviously your reading of his vibe would be correct with his statements but again he did have options if he really didn't like the life or needed an extended break to work on his mental health. Considering William was encouraging him to get help I'm sure they could have sabbatical-ed him quietly and he would have kept his image without having to do much. Hell, he'd still have most of his image now if he didn't keep talking.
  #3226  
Old 05-25-2021, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
no i Dont think that Dodis' race had anything to do with her death. She was chased because this was her first public romance since her divorce.. and the Fayed security system, mismanaged by Dodi and his father, wasn't very effective.
I completely agree. Dodi's race had nothing to do with what happened that night in a Paris tunnel. Everything you mentioned led up to a horrible accident.
  #3227  
Old 05-25-2021, 09:31 AM
Serene Highness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
Yes. I don't have a problem with anyone saying royal tours are exhausting, stressful complicated etc. They definitely are. And I'm well aware than many members of the BRF can imagine better ways to spend a rainy weekday than visiting Skegness to open a sports centre.

However most of them have the common sense not to say it and instead acknowledge the important part they play in making sure other people's hard work is showcased and officially thanked. Harry could have phrased it in a way that didn't sound like he was trashing the key things he and Meghan have said they want to keep doing: service and humanitarianism with a common touch.
The more I hear of what they are doing, I accept the lockdown and new baby, I get the impression they only intend putting their names to things and asking for money. I don't think we will see much of them other than turning up as the guest speaker somewhere or linking with companies.
  #3228  
Old 05-25-2021, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallo girl View Post
The more I hear of what they are doing, I accept the lockdown and new baby, I get the impression they only intend putting their names to things and asking for money. I don't think we will see much of them other than turning up as the guest speaker somewhere or linking with companies.
I think they want to be seen but only on their terms... They're willing to go on TV and do a programme. They're willing to appear on a red carpet at some big charity gig and they'll do the odd "dropping in on a school" sort of thing.. but its all got to be when they feel like it. I dont think they are the sort of couple who want a glamourous social life but they DO want a glam working life.. and they didn't want to be appearing at Skegness Senior citizens centre or the like on a rainy day in the UK.

I think they didn't mind too much the tours they did in the year or so of royal work.... They were travelling somewhere abroad, it was sunny, they got a lot of people liking to see them and they got good media attention.. (though maybe Harry secretly wasn't that happy)....but they knew that as time went on, the tours would get more routine, the home jobs would be duller and they'd have less reporters following them.. and they didn't want that.
  #3229  
Old 05-25-2021, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
Super Trouper . "All I do is eat and sleep and sing." We've heard this sort of thing from plenty of people - that Abba song must be over 30 years old, and we've heard plenty of other singers say that it all sounds glamorous but the travelling's hard work, and tennis players saying that, yes, they love the sport, and the money's great, but staying in a different hotel in a different city every week can be physically and mentally tiring. They all manage to say it without implying that they hated meeting the fans and signing autographs, and felt trapped.
ABBA !! Iím always up for a good ABBA reference! Professional athletes here, when they retire, almost always say that the game itself is the easiest part...itís the practice, being away from family, etc...they get tired of. They DONíT bite the hand that feeds them - without fans, what are they doing this for ? Thereís no one to entertain. Thatís why playing games without fans in the stands was so hard - and it got so bad that teams resorted to putting cardboard fans in the stands and playing taped boos and cheers. Without fans to watch even on tv, or buying jerseys and merchandise, whoís paying their salary?

This isnít hundreds of years ago when the Monarch ruled the land - the Crown now exists by the goodwill of the people. If enough members of the BRF complained like Harry, if enough of them showed disdain and loathing for their people and those far less fortunate, especially during a worldwide pandemic, whoís to say the British people wouldnít decide they donít need the Institution anymore?
  #3230  
Old 05-25-2021, 10:16 AM
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The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 4: April 2021 -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I think they want to be seen but only on their terms... They're willing to go on TV and do a programme. They're willing to appear on a red carpet at some big charity gig and they'll do the odd "dropping in on a school" sort of thing.. but its all got to be when they feel like it.


I think thatís likely a good sum up. I think they want control.
  #3231  
Old 05-25-2021, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACO View Post
https://twitter.com/victoria_ward/st...60648971272205

The Duke and Duchess of Sussex have welcomed the Charity Commission's findings - following a 12-month review - that its MWX Foundation (formerly Sussex Royal) and the Royal Foundation did not act outside charity law in transferring funds to Travalyst.

Republic, the anti-monarchy group that made the original complaint, said: "We apologise unreservedly to the charities and personally to The Duke of Sussex for our actions and the public damage that has been caused as a result of widely publicised untrue claims.Ē

Thank you for sharing this ACO and I'm glad to see that Republic has made an apology to the DoS and the charities involved.
  #3232  
Old 05-25-2021, 10:59 AM
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Mohammed al-Fayed made a few comments about people being unhappy that Diana had been seeing ... I think he actually said "a Muslim" rather than "an Arab". But I don't think anyone ever felt that that was an issue. He was, quite understandably, angry and upset that the whole world was hysterical over the death of Diana and that no-one even seemed to have noticed that she wasn't the only person killed in the crash, and I think he was hitting out. But even he never suggested that that had anything to do with the crash. Diana would have been pursued by photographers if she'd been going out with any man. And, whomever she'd been with, the crash wouldn't have happened if the driver hadn't been speeding. And maybe Diana would have survived if she'd been wearing her seatbelt. If if if if if ... but Dodi's ethnicity certainly wasn't a factor.
  #3233  
Old 05-25-2021, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I dont think that in most respects, Meghan is any smarter or more realistic than Harry. I think that yes, she grew up with a "normal life" where she knew she had to earn her living, and that she hatd to put up with being told what to do by all sorts of people to manage to find work and earn money.. but once she married Harry, that common sense went out the window.
Its like she instantly thought that she'd be able to make up for the having to work hard, for the restrictions and humiliations of life as a struggling actress and that she'd be a Queen Bee in the UK..
She would have staff who had to do her least wish, no-one would tell her no.. or "you must do this or that".. and she'd get adoring press.
I think that she threw her weight around even before the wedding and Harry was like "Whatever Meghan wants, she gets" instantly..
And she found that while there are perks to royal life, there are also a lot of restrictions. She had financial security but she had to depend on her father in law for money. They got a house but it wasn't a palace or a castle in London, it was a not so glamourous house out in the country..
and people told her no a lot of the time.. "no, you can't take gifts and freebies. You shouldn't go on a baby shower trip. You have to curtsy to the queen and walk behind various people.. If you are doing royal duties you have to go where we send you and be nice, and no, it doesn't matter if you have done a great tour, that's just your duty...."
I think that it was TOTALLY unlike what she had imagined and she got enraged...and she and Harry moved away so that they could be King and Queen in their own little worlds in LA.
Meghan has always worked hard to earn a living and to help others. It's unfortunate that her reputation has been damaged by the firm and the media. She was constantly traveling for work and humanitarian causes. Long before Harry, Meghan had met world leaders and conducted many successful campaigns to aid women and girls. It's a shame she was never given a fair chance to show her true worth, but I suspect that was the goal of the well-coordinated media smear campaign. Meghan is a delightful person who genuinely cares about others. It is much easier to believe nasty theories about Meghan because it makes one more comfortable to place the blame on her than Harry. The truth is that Harry suppressed resentments against Charles because of his treatment of Diana for many years, but the vilification of Meghan from within the firm and the media triggered those feelings. Harry wanted to protect his wife and son because he fervently believes his father failed to protect Diana. Also, he genuinely believes his wife and son are targets because of their race. These issues are hard to fathom for some but this is how Harry feels. He's entitled to his views.
  #3234  
Old 05-25-2021, 11:19 AM
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so how is he exactly protecting his wife by both of them going on TV and revealing all sorts of private information? They have told the world things that most people would keep private, such as that Meg was thinking of committing suicide, though she was pregnant.. Is that really good for Meghan to have that revealed? how is her son going to feel when he gets old enough to understand?
If Meg's mental heath is so fragile is it really wise for her to have embarked on a very public career as a Princess, and now as - some kind of public figure in LA society? They coudl have chosen to lead a completely quiet private life with their children.. but instead they've set up a business and public career....
and with regard to Charles protecting Diana, how did he fail to protect her? They were divorced when she died, had been living apart for years. I very much doubt if Charles would have advised Diana to give up her RPOs who would probably have protected her better than MAF's haphazard set up....
  #3235  
Old 05-25-2021, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
I find it interesting that heís now saying he had concerns that Meghan would die just like his mom because she is a POC married to a white man. As stated above- so many poor choices were made that night. I donít really get the comparison honestly. It seems a stretch. Itís not a conclusion I understand.
I think this is what Harry's going for here: He believes that there wouldn't have been so much media interest in Diana's relationship had she been dating a white English aristocrat rather than someone who was basically the definition of "exotic" in most people's minds - not white, not Christian, from a part of the world most ordinary people at that time associated with fantasy stories like Aladdin rather than the mundane reality. Harry may be right about that, though I think he's selectively ignoring the fact that the level of media interest would still have been enormous. He thinks that if there had been less interest, maybe the paparazzi wouldn't have chased her through that tunnel. Again, maybe he's right, but he's selectively ignoring the fact that she or someone in her party tipped them off, as was often the case. Based on that, he made the leap to "She wouldn't have died if she'd been dating a white guy," which in his mind is the same thing as being intentionally persecuted and killed for dating a POC.

As applied to Meghan's situation, whether it's true or not, we know they believe that much (maybe all) of the negative press Meghan got was racially motivated. We also know that Meghan told him she was suicidal because of that negative press coverage. Since Harry believes that coverage wouldn't have happened had Meghan been white, then in his mind Meghan wouldn't have been pushed to the brink of suicide had she been white, which in his mind is the same as her life being threatened because she's not white. To him, that's sufficient similarity to Diana's situation.

Or maybe I'm way off, and he doesn't think any of that. There's a good chance he hasn't even tried to reason it out that far. I'm just trying to parse things in a way that might make some kind of sense. I don't agree with most of it - I'm just trying to come up with a possible thought process that one could logically follow.
  #3236  
Old 05-25-2021, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by UglyAmerican View Post
We also know that Meghan told him she was suicidal because of that negative press coverage.
Its very telling if one's sense of worth is determined by what the tabloids write about oneself!
  #3237  
Old 05-25-2021, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by princess gertrude View Post
I completely agree. Dodi's race had nothing to do with what happened that night in a Paris tunnel. Everything you mentioned led up to a horrible accident.
I find it very hard to believe that because of Dodi's race, it set things in motion that ended with the crash in the Paris tunnel. Of course, almost 24 years later and the recent emphasis put on the BLM movement and the very serious racial tensions and deaths that have resulted from them could be more prominent in Harry's way of thinking because, in reality, he's not only living it but has had his wife be the focus of racial slurs and threats. He's now "woke" and when one is "woke" to something that, perhaps, never affected his life before, he can easily find things in the past that "could have" played a role in his mother's death that he didn't see before. This is where I see his thinking coming from mentioning Dodi's race or being a Muslim. Diana's death was several years before 9/11 also. It's easy for one to paint the past with what is prominent in today's world. It also draws more attention to add what is affecting the now into being a part of the past.

Just thoughts here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SplendaLover View Post
Meghan has always worked hard to earn a living and to help others. It's unfortunate that her reputation has been damaged by the firm and the media. She was constantly traveling for work and humanitarian causes. Long before Harry, Meghan had met world leaders and conducted many successful campaigns to aid women and girls. It's a shame she was never given a fair chance to show her true worth, but I suspect that was the goal of the well-coordinated media smear campaign. Meghan is a delightful person who genuinely cares about others. It is much easier to believe nasty theories about Meghan because it makes one more comfortable to place the blame on her than Harry. The truth is that Harry suppressed resentments against Charles because of his treatment of Diana for many years, but the vilification of Meghan from within the firm and the media triggered those feelings. Harry wanted to protect his wife and son because he fervently believes his father failed to protect Diana. Also, he genuinely believes his wife and son are targets because of their race. These issues are hard to fathom for some but this is how Harry feels. He's entitled to his views.
I can't discount or demean Meghan's life and work before she met Harry. That's a given that she had a good measure of success and exhibited some very positive humanitarian traits that are hers and hers alone.

What most of us are looking at though is her time spent within the fold of a monarchy. An institution that has existed for over a thousand years. She wasn't a good fit for it. She, perhaps, was so used to being the strong, independent woman of the world that she found it hard to mesh with an institution that thrives on doing things *their* way with protocols, hierarchy, traditions and idiosyncrasies unique unto themselves. She wasn't a good fit for the lifestyle of a working royal and it caused problems for her.
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  #3238  
Old 05-25-2021, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I can't discount or demean Meghan's life and work before she met Harry. That's a given that she had a good measure of success and exhibited some very positive humanitarian traits that are hers and hers alone.

What most of us are looking at though is her time spent within the fold of a monarchy. An institution that has existed for over a thousand years. She wasn't a good fit for it. She, perhaps, was so used to being the strong, independent woman of the world that she found it hard to mesh with an institution that thrives on doing things *their* way with protocols, hierarchy, traditions and idiosyncrasies unique unto themselves. She wasn't a good fit for the lifestyle of a working royal and it caused problems for her.

I especially agree with the bolded part of your statement Osipi. Most of us had very high hopes for Meghan's success within the monarchy. Her education, previous humanitarian work and her background in public speaking were all considered positives in her favor. Honestly I truly believed that she would be an outstanding asset to the BRF. However I am now of the opinion that even with that background, Meghan was not suited to this type life. I do wish that the couple had not opted to "hit the ground running" and had chosen to enter into it slowly which would have permitted Meghan the opportunity to adapt to a new nation, home, marriage and role. We know that they were offered a chance to have a role more similar to the Wessexes when they first married. Meghan could have kept her acting career and done the occasional royal visit/tour. However this was not the couple's choice and unfortunately and painfully we now know that this was not the life for Meghan and Harry.
  #3239  
Old 05-25-2021, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLLK View Post
I especially agree with the bolded part of your statement Osipi. Most of us had very high hopes for Meghan's success within We know that they were offered a chance to have a role more similar to the Wessexes when they first married. Meghan could have kept her acting career and done the occasional royal visit/tour. However this was not the couple's choice and unfortunately and painfully we now know that this was not the life for Meghan and Harry.
I dont think that that was ever on the cards. They didn't want to ease in slowly because they needed to be seen quickly as a glamourous royal couple.. so that within a year or 2, they could go for the Half in and half out life that they wanted...
And Meghan had no intention IMO of learning the rules and trying to fit in. She wanted to be royal in the way that she saw it and had no intention of quietly learning the job and working towards a few changes as time went on.
  #3240  
Old 05-25-2021, 12:30 PM
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The al-Fayed family were well-known in the UK long before Dodi and Diana became involved. Mohammed al-Fayed was the owner of Harrods and the owner of Fulham Football Club, as well as the Ritz. He'd been involved in some very controversial business dealings in the 1980s, and he was then involved in a political scandal in which he paid Members of Parliament to ask questions on his behalf. So there was certainly a sense that Diana had got involved with a rather dodgy family, but that was nothing to do with race: it was to do with Dodi's father's financial controversies.
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