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  #3201  
Old 05-25-2021, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
but what else can Harry speak about, or make programmes about? I wondered why Spoitify or Netflix took them on at all... it doesn't seem like they had ideas of what sort of programmes they'd make? Royal history? IMO they dont have the qualifications.. or even the contacts to do progs like that. Charities? Not going to bring in a lot of money. So all that was left was "the innermost secrets of the RF and why they left and their mental health."
I dont know if he's happy with it.. but I find it hard to believe that he's really doing it against his will. I think that Meghan certainly has grudges enough about her time in the RF.. she's angry and when she's angry so Is H. So he does half believe that both of them were treated oh so badly.. and that he had to leave or they'd boht be suicidal. And I think that Harry does have issues with his father and perhaps with the RF as a whole (they probably told him "no" at various times) and so it is not hard for him to work himself up to a state where he is angry, lashes out at charles etc and doesn't care if what he says is true or not.
Oh, I meant the RF series. You know, my childhood was so terrible, Auntie Anne gave me a mean look each time I reached for the sugar, my father ate children for breakfast, this sort of thing.


I'm not sure he's doing these appearances against his will but if he doesn't do them in this exact manner, the interest in him and Meghan will fizzle out, so what choice does he have but do them?
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  #3202  
Old 05-25-2021, 07:07 AM
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William didn't say that Charles never saw the children, just that it would be nice if he saw them more often. That's hardly unusual when a grandparent is still working.


There are loads of royal history programmes on: Channels 4 and 5 seem to fill up every Saturday evening with them. Some are presented by historians who are genuine experts on the subject, but a lot of them just involve presenters interviewing historians and showing nice shots of royal palaces and old paintings of monarchs. Harry and Meghan could do that, but I'm not sure that a Saturday evening slot on Channel 5 is quite what they're after.
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  #3203  
Old 05-25-2021, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
There are loads of royal history programmes on: Channels 4 and 5 seem to fill up every Saturday evening with them. Some are presented by historians who are genuine experts on the subject, but a lot of them just involve presenters interviewing historians and showing nice shots of royal palaces and old paintings of monarchs. Harry and Meghan could do that, but I'm not sure that a Saturday evening slot on Channel 5 is quite what they're after.
It isn't. I meant the outpouring of Harry's "revelations" regarding his family. They're the only thing that keeps them in the news, so I refer to it as his personal "program" - the tragedy of growing up as Harry and the pain his family inflicted on him. What we've seen this far is just the beginning.
  #3204  
Old 05-25-2021, 07:11 AM
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Look at how many pages we've written, trying to make sense of Harry's contradictory statements when there is a very simple explanation: the only currency he has is telling tales about the RF. And I mean tales - long and dramatic. Be honest, would you take the Harry from these shows as a shining example of successful therapy? I wouldn't.


If he wants to stay relevant, he needs to invent new past for himself. This isn't the end. The "compassionate" conversation with Oprah was a dead giveaway. There is worse to come. He has nothing else to offer. All those deals they brag with have this far amounted to big announcements. Spotify had them for exactly one podcast of their own. Invictus isn't the kind of thing that will bring the big money they need to keep themselves in the lifestyle they want. Harry only has his past with the RF. And I'm saying Harry because Meghan already exhausted her store. Even her most ardent supporters know she was in the RF for less than two years. How many shocking stories can she produce? It's all on Harry now.



To be fair, I don't think they expected things to go like this. IMO, they really believed they'll have a Hollywood empire ready to build due to their titles and they'd be able to really achieve something based on their titles but not dragging on the RF for ages. It's the same delusion that they were so much more popular than the Cambridges (comparing themselves to a couple that, after 7 years of marriage, had become known and slightly boring, not to the crowd-gatherind newlywed Cambridges), that it was their place to revolutionize the monarchy despite being No 6 and with the prospects of climbing down, not up, despite Meghan claiming that she didn't know anything about the monarchy. That didn't stop her from knowing what was best for the same monarchy. They overestimated their own importance and just how much they could achieve without being representatives of the monarchy and basically exiles from its official part. They thought themselves as worthy of the same perks Prince Michael and the York princesses received without realizing that these three didn't make themselves exiles from the official part, it was just that everyone knew there was no place there for them due to precedence, not bad relationship with the Crown.


Would Harry have been invited to speak only of therapy? I doubt it. He isn't a professional and the people who tuned it expected Diana, the RF, dirt and so on. He didn't have a choice, so he gave them this dirt. But I refuse to believe he's happy with it. I think he feels trapped and lashes out against his family for "forcing" him to land himself into this. Which is ridiculous for a man his age but... his dad cut him off financially, so...


There will be more. I'm not sure I'll actually read or listen. I can already say what the program will be.
I think you're right there will be a less "compassionate" version in the future, even though that conflicts with their "we want to monetize kindness" brand. I couldn't believe Harry seriously thinks that was compassionate but he seems to think it was because they claimed to want to go back "in a heart beat" if the family begged forgiveness. And because they haven't Harry's doubling down on everything.

I also think you're right that they thought companies would be lining up to work with them and it hasn't quite worked out like that. We know they had to cold call for a lot of the Zoom conferences they did last year.

They were being courted by Quibi before they left and possibly assumed that was just the tip of the iceberg once they were fully able to commercialised.

Of course COVID probably threw a huge wrench in their plans, as did the taxpayers and Charles cutting them off. Although even without COVID they would have been scrambling once the family said no to their HIHO plan which was the centre piece of their new life as well.
  #3205  
Old 05-25-2021, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
but what else can Harry speak about, or make programmes about? I wondered why Spoitify or Netflix took them on at all... it doesn't seem like they had ideas of what sort of programmes they'd make? Royal history? IMO they dont have the qualifications.. or even the contacts to do progs like that. Charities? Not going to bring in a lot of money. So all that was left was "the innermost secrets of the RF and why they left and their mental health."
I dont know if he's happy with it.. but I find it hard to believe that he's really doing it against his will. I think that Meghan certainly has grudges enough about her time in the RF.. she's angry and when she's angry so Is H. So he does half believe that both of them were treated oh so badly.. and that he had to leave or they'd boht be suicidal. And I think that Harry does have issues with his father and perhaps with the RF as a whole (they probably told him "no" at various times) and so it is not hard for him to work himself up to a state where he is angry, lashes out at charles etc and doesn't care if what he says is true or not.
They cared about Harry’s title/connection to HM and future Kings; they’d have paid him just to read the phone book.

Trying to evaluate someone’s psychological state is always a tricky thing. Harry has to take responsibility for his words and deeds himself, but I think subconsciously he may have been looking for a strong woman - like his mother - and finds it easier to follow her. Unfortunately, Meghan is no Diana (this is not to say Diana didn’t make mistakes, but for all of them, she was essentially a warm hearted person); she is ruthlessly ambitious, for herself and H
  #3206  
Old 05-25-2021, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Moran View Post
Oh, I meant the RF series. You know, my childhood was so terrible, Auntie Anne gave me a mean look each time I reached for the sugar, my father ate children for breakfast, this sort of thing.


I'm not sure he's doing these appearances against his will but if he doesn't do them in this exact manner, the interest in him and Meghan will fizzle out, so what choice does he have but do them? He doesn't want to downsize and live within the means they have.
but surely there are other ways of doing it? I agree that in the end, that's really all he has to talk about.. but the way he's doing it, is the most dramatic and nasty way that he could. Even if he does do it, I think the interest is going to fizzle out in a while.. He's told too many conflicting versions in a short time.. people will get suspicous... and the story of "Dad locked us up in a school and beat us when we came home" is going to look a bit odd, after a while....
but WRT say the tours abroad and so on, he could have spoken about them in a different way, that would not have been so offensive to the people he met ... He could have said "I know people think royal life is glamourous but travelling so much is hard work, and at times it was difficult to keep on with it..." rather than "I hated doing it,.. I was forced into it.. and it was awful meeting those people when I was trapped and they were free."
  #3207  
Old 05-25-2021, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
We have to remember too that Charles was the one funding William and Harry's office and staff at KP and still does for William. This falls to Charles because of his Duchy of Cornwall. Originally named The Foundation of Prince William and Prince Harry, the foundation was set up in September 2009 to enable Prince William and his brother, Prince Harry to take forward their charitable ambitions. This was two years before William married Catherine and neither man was a full time working royal. It seemed to run smoothly for all three of them until Harry married Meghan and brought her into the fold.

I can't state with absolute surety why the Royal Foundation was split and whose bright idea it was but, as I stated earlier, I believe it was a move agreed on in preparation for the transition between monarchs and under whose umbrella funding would fall and in the future, no matter how it was done, William would be financed by his Duchy of Cornwall while Harry would still depend on his father for funding.
Thanks for your thoughts, Osipi!
  #3208  
Old 05-25-2021, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
William didn't say that Charles never saw the children, just that it would be nice if he saw them more often. That's hardly unusual when a grandparent is still working.


There are loads of royal history programmes on: Channels 4 and 5 seem to fill up every Saturday evening with them. Some are presented by historians who are genuine experts on the subject, but a lot of them just involve presenters interviewing historians and showing nice shots of royal palaces and old paintings of monarchs. Harry and Meghan could do that, but I'm not sure that a Saturday evening slot on Channel 5 is quite what they're after.
Right. He said Charles was a brilliant grandfather, and the kids loved seeing him, they all did. William also said that his father was getting older (words to that effect) and they wish he could just relax and spend time with the family, that they all want him around as long as possible (I believe he was including H in this as H was sitting next to him). Evidently Charles took that to heart (and/or W spoke to him) ....
  #3209  
Old 05-25-2021, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
but surely there are other ways of doing it? I agree that in the end, that's really all he has to talk about.. but the way he's doing it, is the most dramatic and nasty way that he could. Even if he does do it, I think the interest is going to fizzle out in a while.. He's told too many conflicting versions in a short time.. people will get suspicous... and the story of "Dad locked us up in a school and beat us when we came home" is going to look a bit odd, after a while....
but WRT say the tours abroad and so on, he could have spoken about them in a different way, that would not have been so offensive to the people he met ... He could have said "I know people think royal life is glamourous but travelling so much is hard work, and at times it was difficult to keep on with it..." rather than "I hated doing it,.. I was forced into it.. and it was awful meeting those people when I was trapped and they were free."
There are other ways but Harry is now in the culture of tabloids (that don't exist in America but whatever). Drama is what sells. How many people in US would listen to what Crown Princess Mary has to say about her own introduction to her new life? Not much because she's always said something along the lines of, It was very difficult. But she never complains and she never accuses. That's why she's never going to sell. Furthermore, she doesn't need to make herself known beyond Denmark. She doesn't court market. Her lifestyle is secured so she doesn't need to worry about staying in people's minds. People who just go about their work and lives just aren't this interesting. And Harry and Meghan lost this security.


Sure, people are going to get tired with him complaining after a while. But if he stops complaining, if he's being nice and reasonable, they're going to get tired immediately. He cannot allow to establish himself as an unobtrusive presence as if he were still a working royal because he wants another kind of work and it's directly linked to his being visible.
  #3210  
Old 05-25-2021, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
The Foundation of Prince William and Prince Harry was co-founded by the brothers in September 2009, to further their interests in such things as veterans affairs and the environment.

As shown in the link underneath both brothers were involved in the setting up of the Foundation, and both put a certain amount of money from their Diana inheritance to seed it. Indeed Harry had by that time already founded Sentebale.


It wasn’t a sole William operational setup with him graciously offering a hand to Harry at all. Prince Charles agreed to finance it on an ongoing basis and in those years staff answered to both brothers.


https://writeroyalty.com/going-their...-the-fab-four/
This is a great article! Thanks for posting it, Curryong!

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Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
Even now, most of the negative opinions of Harry are caused by words coming out of his own mouth and not press stories or leaks. The BRF sources are quiet except to say how upset Charles and HM are.

I couldn't believe my ears when I heard him openly talk about hating meeting people and hating the tours abroad he did and thus by association in his own words hating humanitarianism and veterans the two things supposedly close to his heart. He did this both on Dax Shephard and Oprah 2.0 so it wasn't a momentary mistake.

Same with things like the Bank of Dad and his drug use. That wasn't coming from the media running stories, that's directly on him and it will be his own fault if a few weeks from now the Sun run a story adding in all the bits they've held back in years past about his wild behaviour.

The press always knew, it's a dead giveaway when they start saying "he was in a place where lots of drug taking was happening but there's no suggestion he partook personally." BP/KP protected him from that and many other stories.

Palace staff (often lower down the totem pole) may have leaked things like the crying thing or tiaragate but a lot of major stuff never made it though except by his own mouth and rumours like the tea being thrown in Admiralty House were online gossip only.

"Cheeky Chappie Harry" I thought was partly a media creation but he did kind-of really exist as the raw material for Edward Lane Fox to work with but Harry is now determined to destroy that image one and for all and say he never existed and assuming that's correct, KP did a superb job in crafting that for him and playing down and encouraging the public to ignore the less pleasant parts. To his advantage in becoming the most popular royal - which he now wants to retain whilst being a completely different person.
Was the “hating meeting people and....tours” on the Apple interviews? I don’t remember hearing him saying this. Somehow I’m missing some things of late
  #3211  
Old 05-25-2021, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Moran View Post
There are other ways but Harry is now in the culture ocannot allow to establish himself as an unobtrusive presence as if he were still a working royal because he wants another kind of work and it's directly linked to his being visible.
It doesn't seem to me as if he has any definite idea of what "work" he's going to do/wanted to do. I know there were stories that well before they left royal life they were talking about deals, to US companies.. but according to H himself they didn't go for the deal with Netflix till they lost their security.

I honestly wonder if Harry understands about work, and realizes that even if you are already reasonably rich, it takes time and commitment to make really massive amounts of money. You need to be thinking about it, working on it, committed all the time to finding new ways of making the money.. and He just doesn't' really understand that.
I keep thinking of a skit in Blackadder, where there is a character who is an upper class Frenchman who has come to England to get away from the revolution. Blackadder asks him if he wants to make some money and he says "No!!!! I want other people to make the money and give it to me." I think that H thinks that somehow, other people will make the money and he'll just somehow get it...
Edward (Wessex) did set up businesses making documentaries on royal history and they didn't do that well.. because he wasn't all that smart and I dont think those sorts of docs bring in MUCH money... but he did at least try to make money by providing SOMETHING to sell that the public might buy. Harry doesn't seem to even have an idea what he might sell to the public other than his personal life... (OK there's a possible documentary on Invictus but its only ONE idea and it isn't about something that is going to make shedloads of money).
  #3212  
Old 05-25-2021, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Royalist.in.NC View Post
Was the “hating meeting people and....tours” on the Apple interviews? I don’t remember hearing him saying this. Somehow I’m missing some things of late
He said it on both the Dax Shepard podcast and the Apple TV series, which means it wasn't a throwaway comment on a bad day but something he has come to believe.

On Armchair expert he said he didn't really want to do engagements and specifically thought "I don't want to be here" when meeting people but he had to grin and bear it. He also specifically mentioned travelling the commonwealth and resenting people he met there because they were "freer" than he was.

Then with Oprah 2.0 he claimed he was the "family yes man" who was sent everywhere to the point of burn out and specifically cited his 2016 trip to Nepal. He neglects to mention he went to because he had a personal connection to the Gurkha community there having served with them in Afghanistan (and been protected my them) and was there to help them rebuilt after the devastating earthquake and thank them for 200 years of service to Britain. Or the fact that is father and brother both did two tours that year and he himself came 11th in the family league tables.

I don't think he specified the word "hate" but considering he thought doing 180 engagements a year as abuse/cruelty it's a reasonable assumption.
  #3213  
Old 05-25-2021, 07:57 AM
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I'm echoing a huge BINGO at this. Harry and Meghan were given roles that really cemented them as ambassadors to the Commonwealth nations and that is really nothing to sneeze at. I believe the "Firm" and the BRF actually went out of their way to assure Harry that he was valued and wanted and an integral part of "Team Windsor" but, as you said, Harry didn't see it that way. Perhaps he was too blinded by what he felt was his due and perhaps by ideas that Meghan had that would "modernize the monarchy". Neither one of them, and even William and Catherine and all the other members of "Team Windsor" had the right to expect to rewrite how the institution works.

One day the lightbulb is going to go on in Harry's head and he'll realize everything he's thrown away. I wouldn't want to be anywhere near him then.
Harry and Meghan would have been brilliant in Commonwealth roles. But now Harry is saying he didn’t like all the meet and greets so it is hard to know what he really wants.

Bottom line, I think it was about control for both of them - being able to do what they wanted however they wanted which couldn’t happen under palace strictures. It seems that Meghan was spoiled too by her dad - she really functioned as an only child because her siblings were so much older. But she was used to “playing the game” while an actress. She couldn’t control which parts she got or didn’t get and understood and worked within that system and seemed to have a healthy attitude about it all. Meryl Streep she is not, but who knows what kind of roles could have come along for her after Suits? So why couldn’t she play the same type of game - like she did as an actress within that system - within the RF?

When this all fails for them as a long term money making scheme, I agree that they are both in for a rude awakening.
  #3214  
Old 05-25-2021, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
It doesn't seem to me as if he has any definite idea of what "work" he's going to do/wanted to do. I know there were stories that well before they left royal life they were talking about deals, to US companies.. but according to H himself they didn't go for the deal with Netflix till they lost their security.
He's lying about that. Their spokesperson admitted they had been talking to Quibi in January 2019 but then said it didn't matter because Quibi were the ones that approached *them*.

Plan C might have been to do nothing much if Charles had agreed to pay for everything longterm, although that didn't stop them doing those Zoom conferences, but that wasn't the first plan.

Maybe once Charles put a stop to that they went with plan D: Netflix and Spotify.
  #3215  
Old 05-25-2021, 08:04 AM
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After viewing “The Me You Can’t See” this evening, I am completely convinced that further conversation regarding titles, inheritances, and any other sort of royal politics as they pertain to the Duke of Sussex are completely irrelevant at this juncture.

This guy has really been driven to believe a narrative about his mother, the BRF, and even the paparazzi themselves that is utterly fallacious in it’s conception. I was flabbergasted when I watched Prince Harry actually say that Diana was essentially chased down and killed because she was in a relationship with someone who was not white. And then in the same breath, go on to say that Meghan had the same bounty out on her head.

What in the actual......? He wasn’t given the latitude to grieve his mother properly as a child, OK I get that. But since when do we live in a world where correlation equals causality? The burden of proof is on Harry and to an extent Meghan as well to provide the extraordinary evidence necessary to support this rather extraordinary claim. Until then, it reeks of their own biased subjectivity.
Wow, comparing Dodi to Meghan essentially, and making it a racial narrative ? Wow!!!

And welcome to TRF
  #3216  
Old 05-25-2021, 08:08 AM
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Denville, I fully agree. Furthermore, I cannot think that they did Archewell no favours with this attitude to those less fortunate than them. With this profound pity of himself, the fact that it's registered in Delaware and so on I can't help but see it as "Give me some money to live, I'll give some of them for charity." Who is to say that Harry actually cares about these causes? He may easily appear on TV some years later and say, "They made me do it!"
  #3217  
Old 05-25-2021, 08:10 AM
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https://twitter.com/victoria_ward/st...60648971272205

The Duke and Duchess of Sussex have welcomed the Charity Commission's findings - following a 12-month review - that its MWX Foundation (formerly Sussex Royal) and the Royal Foundation did not act outside charity law in transferring funds to Travalyst.

Republic, the anti-monarchy group that made the original complaint, said: "We apologise unreservedly to the charities and personally to The Duke of Sussex for our actions and the public damage that has been caused as a result of widely publicised untrue claims.”
  #3218  
Old 05-25-2021, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Royalist.in.NC View Post
Harry and Meghan would have been brilliant in Commonwealth roles. But now Harry is saying he didn’t like all the meet and greets so it is hard to know what he really wants.

But she was used to “playing the game” while an actress. She couldn’t control which parts she got or didn’t get and understood and worked within that system and seemed to have a healthy attitude about it all. Meryl Streep she is not, but who knows what kind of roles could have come along for her after Suits? So why couldn’t she play the same type of game - like she did as an actress within that system - within the RF?

When this all fails for them as a long term money making scheme, I agree that they are both in for a rude awakening.
I dont think that in most respects, Meghan is any smarter or more realistic than Harry. I think that yes, she grew up with a "normal life" where she knew she had to earn her living, and that she hatd to put up with being told what to do by all sorts of people to manage to find work and earn money.. but once she married Harry, that common sense went out the window.
Its like she instantly thought that she'd be able to make up for the having to work hard, for the restrictions and humiliations of life as a struggling actress and that she'd be a Queen Bee in the UK..
She would have staff who had to do her least wish, no-one would tell her no.. or "you must do this or that".. and she'd get adoring press.
I think that she threw her weight around even before the wedding and Harry was like "Whatever Meghan wants, she gets" instantly..
And she found that while there are perks to royal life, there are also a lot of restrictions. She had financial security but she had to depend on her father in law for money. They got a house but it wasn't a palace or a castle in London, it was a not so glamourous house out in the country..
and people told her no a lot of the time.. "no, you can't take gifts and freebies. You shouldn't go on a baby shower trip. You have to curtsy to the queen and walk behind various people.. If you are doing royal duties you have to go where we send you and be nice, and no, it doesn't matter if you have done a great tour, that's just your duty...."
I think that it was TOTALLY unlike what she had imagined and she got enraged...and she and Harry moved away so that they could be King and Queen in their own little worlds in LA.
  #3219  
Old 05-25-2021, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
but WRT say the tours abroad and so on, he could have spoken about them in a different way, that would not have been so offensive to the people he met ... He could have said "I know people think royal life is glamourous but travelling so much is hard work, and at times it was difficult to keep on with it..." rather than "I hated doing it,.. I was forced into it.. and it was awful meeting those people when I was trapped and they were free."
Super Trouper . "All I do is eat and sleep and sing." We've heard this sort of thing from plenty of people - that Abba song must be over 30 years old, and we've heard plenty of other singers say that it all sounds glamorous but the travelling's hard work, and tennis players saying that, yes, they love the sport, and the money's great, but staying in a different hotel in a different city every week can be physically and mentally tiring. They all manage to say it without implying that they hated meeting the fans and signing autographs, and felt trapped.
  #3220  
Old 05-25-2021, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
Super Trouper . "All I do is eat and sleep and sing." We've heard this sort of thing from plenty of people - that Abba song must be over 30 years old, and we've heard plenty of other singers say that it all sounds glamorous but the travelling's hard work, and tennis players saying that, yes, they love the sport, and the money's great, but staying in a different hotel in a different city every week can be physically and mentally tiring. They all manage to say it without implying that they hated meeting the fans and signing autographs, and felt trapped.
Yes. I don't have a problem with anyone saying royal tours are exhausting, stressful complicated etc. They definitely are. And I'm well aware than many members of the BRF can imagine better ways to spend a rainy weekday than visiting Skegness to open a sports centre.

However most of them have the common sense not to say it and instead acknowledge the important part they play in making sure other people's hard work is showcased and officially thanked. Harry could have phrased it in a way that didn't sound like he was trashing the key things he and Meghan have said they want to keep doing: service and humanitarianism with a common touch.
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The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 3: March - April 2021 Jacknch Current Events Archive 2203 04-06-2021 12:08 PM




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