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  #3161  
Old 05-24-2021, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Royalist.in.NC View Post
There has been a lot of talk about Harry wanting his own “court” at Windsor. I’m not sure that I understand precisely what that means. Could some of you please explain? Thanks!
Basically one's own court is having their own office and staff that are answerable only to them. When the Royal Foundation of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge was split, William and Kate maintained that Royal Foundation and eventually, as Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge, William would be responsible for everything to do with his "court" much like Charles is right now with covering the expenses of his own immediate family. Harry's court was moved to Buckingham Palace and then was answerable to the Queen as her children's office and staff do.

This is basically what I see as the soft transition. When Charles becomes King, he would be responsible for expenditures of Harry and Meghan along with any other royal that works for the "Firm" and represents the monarch. William, then, would be responsible for himself and his wife and children as Charles was doing before the foundation split.

Harry wanted his own court at Windsor that gave him autonomy over his office, staff and expenditures and what they would and wouldn't do. In short, he wanted to be separate from the "Firm". This is something where it really does seem logical that his request was denied.

Any place I'm wrong here, I'm sure I'll be corrected that those more in the know of things.
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  #3162  
Old 05-24-2021, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Basically one's own court is having their own office and staff that are answerable only to them. When the Royal Foundation of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge was split, William and Kate maintained that Royal Foundation and eventually, as Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge, William would be responsible for everything to do with his "court" much like Charles is right now with covering the expenses of his own immediate family. Harry's court was moved to Buckingham Palace and then was answerable to the Queen as her children's office and staff do.

This is basically what I see as the soft transition. When Charles becomes King, he would be responsible for expenditures of Harry and Meghan along with any other royal that works for the "Firm" and represents the monarch. William, then, would be responsible for himself and his wife and children as Charles was doing before the foundation split.

Harry wanted his own court at Windsor that gave him autonomy over his office, staff and expenditures and what they would and wouldn't do. In short, he wanted to be separate from the "Firm". This is something where it really does seem logical that his request was denied.

Any place I'm wrong here, I'm sure I'll be corrected that those more in the know of things.
Thanks, Osipi, this is so helpful! Essentially he wanted the same power and privileges that his brother and father have without their roles and responsibilities. And he didn’t see/accept that his uncles and aunt didn’t get this privilege either.
Diana didn’t do Harry any favors by spoiling him. I’m sure it would have been different had she lived - or I hope it would have been.

I think that the Cambridges are smart enough to see that they will have to make sure that Charlotte and Louis understand the difference between family and “firm” in a way that Harry does not or that he and Meghan didn’t want to accept.

If you reread the Sussex Royal page where they state “what they are going to do,” it is obvious that they thought that since they were superstars they could do whatever they wanted. What a miscalculation!
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  #3163  
Old 05-24-2021, 06:27 PM
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eventually, as Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge, William would be responsible [...]
Wouldn't George become Duke of Cambridge upon William becoming Crown Prince and Duke of Cornwall? Or is that not how this works?
  #3164  
Old 05-24-2021, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by wartenberg7 View Post
I agree on a lot of you say, but if someone detests royal life that much, why then being angry about not having ones own court?
I know lots of people claim Harry is a fool, but being born into Royalty he will know that the monarch has a "court" (the Queen Mother, who was also a crowned Queen of England, had her own court, too), but not a second born "spare", slipping down the line of succession with every child his older sibling has.
I still have trouble in understanding a couple so opposed to the Prince´s former life, insisting on wedding tiaras, titles and courts....!

It is possible that he wanted a separate office staff because he and Meghan weren't getting along with the people they were working with. Perhaps they wanted total control. It is also possible that Meghan was offended by someone on staff and she thought that the only workable solution was to be in charge. If true, a separate staff may not have worked very well anyway, because we have seen how H and M operate. Not exactly respectful, collaborative team players.
  #3165  
Old 05-24-2021, 06:39 PM
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It's difficult to ignore people making such vile comments about the family of our sovereign, who has been our Queen for almost 70 years. You can say that people don't have to read hate speech posted online, but that doesn't mean that it's not upsetting. At a basic level, you can tell a little kid to ignore name-calling in the playground. It's still horrible. If it's just Harry droning on about air travel damaging the environment, when he takes private planes, or telling people to vote, when he's never voted in his life, OK, you can ignore that if it doesn't interest you. But I find it difficult to ignore the spite and vitriol he's hurling at his family.
You have valid points in how hard it is to ignore it. That is kind of what Meghan said about the contact attacks on her, where people said she just needed to ignore it or suck it up.

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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
My point was that therapy seemed to be helping him, which he freely admitted, and there’s no anger at his family or Institution. IMO, he’s putting on more of an act now, which I explained earlier. He can’t possibly think we’re stupid enough to take him at face value when we have evidence of not only his father taking him bike riding, but also of H speaking lovingly about his pa. So, I think he’s been encouraged in his insecurities to feel as if he’s not loved or valued enough, hence his anger, hence his choosing to attack Charles and the family in public. It’s a public temper tantrum brought on by insecurities encouraged by Meghan . It’s a crazy mix ...no one easy answer
Not that I necessarily think it is true but people say he is putting on a show now. How do you know he wasn't putting on shows then? Most of the stuff we saw was literally in front of the media. It was game face time. Not like these people don't play the media game and honestly it is a major part of being a royal. Fake it until you make it. And we know their PR office stays busy.
  #3166  
Old 05-24-2021, 06:45 PM
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Wouldn't George become Duke of Cambridge upon William becoming Crown Prince and Duke of Cornwall? Or is that not how this works?
George will only be Duke when he gets married. William and Harry only received their duchies when they got married, so the same must happen with William's children.
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  #3167  
Old 05-24-2021, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by UglyAmerican View Post
Wouldn't George become Duke of Cambridge upon William becoming Crown Prince and Duke of Cornwall? Or is that not how this works?
George will not inherit any titles of his very own from his father until his father dies. The Duchy of Cornwall passes only to the eldest son of the monarch. When William becomes the Duke of Cornwall, he just adds the Duke of Cornwall to his already existing ducal titles. When Charles dies, the Duke of Cornwall title will be George's because he's the eldest son of the monarch. The Duke of Cambridge title will revert to the crown upon William's accession to the throne just as all of Charles titles, except The Duke of Cornwall and it's secondary titles will.

This is why Edward has to wait until Charles becomes king to be created The Duke of Edinburgh. By law and the remainder of that title, it passes to Philip's eldest son.
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  #3168  
Old 05-24-2021, 06:49 PM
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Wouldn't George become Duke of Cambridge upon William becoming Crown Prince and Duke of Cornwall? Or is that not how this works?
No, George will only inherit his father's titles if William dies before Charles and never becomes king. Apart from the Dukedom of Cornwall (and, I assume, Rothesay, though I haven't researched that one) titles a British monarch-in-waiting holds merge with the crown once they become king and are not passed down the line.
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  #3169  
Old 05-24-2021, 06:55 PM
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You have valid points in how hard it is to ignore it. That is kind of what Meghan said about the contact attacks on her, where people said she just needed to ignore it or suck it up.
This is something all celebrities have to deal with, and I think it’s good advice...for Meghan or anyone else. You can’t win these battles, and if you let if get to you, it will eat you up. A perfect example of this is the former quarterback of my favorite football team, the Chicago Bears (I’ll call him Smith). My team gave up many draft picks (the lifeblood of any organization) to move up in the draft so they could choose Smith #3 pick. In so doing, they passed on two other quarterbacks, Jones and Johnson. Smith was always going to be a project as he was raw, but it turned out he was not just raw, but ultimately so far...utterly mediocre to bad. Jones and Johnson turned out to be great. Smith was mocked on Twitter constantly - not just by his own fans, but fans of other teams. He was mocked by the NFL media, even...and I’m telling you, some of the comments were really cruel. Smith decided at some point to quit Twitter and SM during the season, so he wouldn’t see these awful things, and I’m sure it made it easier for him.

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Not that I necessarily think it is true but people say he is putting on a show now. How do you know he wasn't putting on shows then? Most of the stuff we saw was literally in front of the media. It was game face time. Not like these people don't play the media game and honestly it is a major part of being a royal. Fake it until you make it. And we know their PR office stays busy.
You’re right...but if I think he could have been doing that, then I have to think he was possibly pretending to love his father, and I’ll never go there, no matter what H says now.
  #3170  
Old 05-24-2021, 07:03 PM
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I'm not even disagreeing with you. I am sure she for the most part did ignore it but things at times can become hard to ignore. Especially when a lot of of the time it was their own people bringing it to her because it dealt with her estranged family being all over the media.

My guess is them not being on social media now and being away from the press (8 hours time difference from the UK most work wonders) helps a great deal in not having to deal with that UK media. The US press can be nasty but really the way they go about it is night and day.

People should ignore it but I am also realistic that we are still human.
  #3171  
Old 05-24-2021, 07:05 PM
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I feel Doria is the baby minder. That or she’s always over checking on Archie. Which is why I find it odd that Harry said something about Archie learning to say grandma via the photo of Diana in his nursery.
This was one of the most telling things Harry said during the show. Even with Thomas Markle playing no role in the family's life, Archie has a living grandmother, grandfather, step-grandmother, great-grandmother, and when he learned to speak his first words, great-grandfather, as well as an aunt and uncle. That the presence of the relative who is not able to be with him as he grows up has been made more of a presence in his life is both painfully tragic and ultimately reflective of where Harry has shown himself to be in his own journey.
  #3172  
Old 05-24-2021, 07:16 PM
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Thanks to everyone who explained about Cornwall and Cambridge!

I think the advice for Harry and Meghan to "suck it up" would have been different had it been other royals, rather than random people on Twitter, publicly attacking them. It would surely have affected the public's opinion of those doing the attacking, and not in a good way.

As ponder it more, I think Harry's revelations about years of substance abuse make it less likely that the royal family and/or courtiers were planting negative stories, as he and Meghan have repeatedly suggested. If Harry's telling the truth about his own issues, his family and its staff must have gone to great lengths to protect him from those issues becoming public knowledge. If those same people did an about-face and decided they wanted to destroy him and/or Meghan, they'd have had plenty of ammunition, and they didn't use it. I just can't believe someone would have maliciously planted a story about a fight over a child's tights, while intentionally sitting on stories about Harry doing far worse things (as he must have) while abusing various substances. It doesn't make any sense.
  #3173  
Old 05-24-2021, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by UglyAmerican View Post

As ponder it more, I think Harry's revelations about years of substance abuse make it less likely that the royal family and/or courtiers were planting negative stories, as he and Meghan have repeatedly suggested. If Harry's telling the truth about his own issues, his family and its staff must have gone to great lengths to protect him from those issues becoming public knowledge. If those same people did an about-face and decided they wanted to destroy him and/or Meghan, they'd have had plenty of ammunition, and they didn't use it. I just can't believe someone would have maliciously planted a story about a fight over a child's tights, while intentionally sitting on stories about Harry doing far worse things (as he must have) while abusing various substances. It doesn't make any sense.
Even now, most of the negative opinions of Harry are caused by words coming out of his own mouth and not press stories or leaks. The BRF sources are quiet except to say how upset Charles and HM are.

I couldn't believe my ears when I heard him openly talk about hating meeting people and hating the tours abroad he did and thus by association in his own words hating humanitarianism and veterans the two things supposedly close to his heart. He did this both on Dax Shephard and Oprah 2.0 so it wasn't a momentary mistake.

Same with things like the Bank of Dad and his drug use. That wasn't coming from the media running stories, that's directly on him and it will be his own fault if a few weeks from now the Sun run a story adding in all the bits they've held back in years past about his wild behaviour.

The press always knew, it's a dead giveaway when they start saying "he was in a place where lots of drug taking was happening but there's no suggestion he partook personally." BP/KP protected him from that and many other stories.

Palace staff (often lower down the totem pole) may have leaked things like the crying thing or tiaragate but a lot of major stuff never made it though except by his own mouth and rumours like the tea being thrown in Admiralty House were online gossip only.

"Cheeky Chappie Harry" I thought was partly a media creation but he did kind-of really exist as the raw material for Edward Lane Fox to work with but Harry is now determined to destroy that image one and for all and say he never existed and assuming that's correct, KP did a superb job in crafting that for him and playing down and encouraging the public to ignore the less pleasant parts. To his advantage in becoming the most popular royal - which he now wants to retain whilst being a completely different person.
  #3174  
Old 05-24-2021, 07:41 PM
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The book also gave us tiaragate.
  #3175  
Old 05-24-2021, 07:51 PM
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The book also gave us tiaragate.
Right, thanks for reminding me FF actually confirmed that many of the petty, negative rumours really did happen (even announcing Archie at the wedding as well), except they happened in a way where the Sussexes were completely innocent and everyone else was at fault.

I'll say it again then, almost all the most negative stories came directly from them or were confirmed by their proxy. Meghan was even warned that the NY baby shower wouldn't be perceived well by the public and the palace did defend that one.
  #3176  
Old 05-24-2021, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by HighGoalHighDreams View Post
This was one of the most telling things Harry said during the show. Even with Thomas Markle playing no role in the family's life, Archie has a living grandmother, grandfather, step-grandmother, great-grandmother, and when he learned to speak his first words, great-grandfather, as well as an aunt and uncle. That the presence of the relative who is not able to be with him as he grows up has been made more of a presence in his life is both painfully tragic and ultimately reflective of where Harry has shown himself to be in his own journey.
It's incredibly sad. Charles never knew his paternal grandfather, and he barely knew George VI; he regrets that to this day. I can't imagine how painful it is for him, for HM, to never see Archie.....time is going to run out, eventually. The problem is, Harry says he wants to break the cycle of what he sees as essentially abuse, so there's no reason for him to ever want Archie and his soon to be born sister to know his grandfather/great-grandmother.
  #3177  
Old 05-24-2021, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Royalist.in.NC View Post
There has been a lot of talk about Harry wanting his own “court” at Windsor. I’m not sure that I understand precisely what that means. Could some of you please explain? Thanks!
Others will probably be able to explain it than I can but, essentially, there is one court in Buckingham Palace. All royals, other than Charles and William, work with the Buckingham Palace media center. However, Charles and William, as the direct heirs, have their own offices (Clarence House and Kensington Palace) that coordinate and cooperate with Buckingham Palace but have a lot more autonomy. That is why sometimes articles refer to statements out of Buckingham Palace, which we know come from the Queen's office, even if it is on behalf of another royal. Other articles have language like "a statement from Clarence House" (Charles) or Kensington Palace (William).

When William established his own office, he included Harry. Even though office was really William's, William treated Harry as an equal partner. Not surprisingly, Harry became used to having semi-independent media operation and staff so it was a shock to him and Meghan that he didn't get his own semi-independent office when he split with William. Instead, Harry and Meghan were brought under the umbrella of Buckingham Palace. And the rest is history.
  #3178  
Old 05-24-2021, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
Others will probably be able to explain it than I can but, essentially, there is one court in Buckingham Palace. All royals, other than Charles and William, work with the Buckingham Palace media center. However, Charles and William, as the direct heirs, have their own offices (Clarence House and Kensington Palace) that coordinate and cooperate with Buckingham Palace but have a lot more autonomy. That is why sometimes articles refer to statements out of Buckingham Palace, which we know come from the Queen's office, even if it is on behalf of another royal. Other articles have language like "a statement from Clarence House" (Charles) or Kensington Palace (William).

When William established his own office, he included Harry. Even though office was really William's, William treated Harry as an equal partner. Not surprisingly, Harry became used to having semi-independent media operation and staff so it was a shock to him and Meghan that he didn't get his own semi-independent office when he split with William. Instead, Harry and Meghan were brought under the umbrella of Buckingham Palace. And the rest is history.
Thanks so much to you and others for the great explanations! I wonder if it was William’s idea to include Harry as an equal partner. If so, perhaps that was a mistake in hindsight.
If it had been with BP before Meghan came along, perhaps this wouldn’t have been a big deal as it would have already been established.

So was it Harry’s idea to split from William and move away from the Royal Foundation and KP or did that come from someone else?
  #3179  
Old 05-24-2021, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Royalist.in.NC View Post
Thanks so much to you and others for the great explanations! I wonder if it was William’s idea to include Harry as an equal partner. If so, perhaps that was a mistake in hindsight.
If it had been with BP before Meghan came along, perhaps this wouldn’t have been a big deal as it would have already been established.

So was it Harry’s idea to split from William and move away from the Royal Foundation and KP or did that come from someone else?
We have to remember too that Charles was the one funding William and Harry's office and staff at KP and still does for William. This falls to Charles because of his Duchy of Cornwall. Originally named The Foundation of Prince William and Prince Harry, the foundation was set up in September 2009 to enable Prince William and his brother, Prince Harry to take forward their charitable ambitions. This was two years before William married Catherine and neither man was a full time working royal. It seemed to run smoothly for all three of them until Harry married Meghan and brought her into the fold.

I can't state with absolute surety why the Royal Foundation was split and whose bright idea it was but, as I stated earlier, I believe it was a move agreed on in preparation for the transition between monarchs and under whose umbrella funding would fall and in the future, no matter how it was done, William would be financed by his Duchy of Cornwall while Harry would still depend on his father for funding.
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  #3180  
Old 05-24-2021, 10:58 PM
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The Foundation of Prince William and Prince Harry was co-founded by the brothers in September 2009, to further their interests in such things as veterans affairs and the environment.

As shown in the link underneath both brothers were involved in the setting up of the Foundation, and both put a certain amount of money from their Diana inheritance to seed it. Indeed Harry had by that time already founded Sentebale.


It wasn’t a sole William operational setup with him graciously offering a hand to Harry at all. Prince Charles agreed to finance it on an ongoing basis and in those years staff answered to both brothers.


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