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  #2461  
Old 05-18-2021, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moran View Post
I'm not shifting the blame onto Diana. I'm saying Harry has two parents and he's laying all the "genetic pain" onto one of them when the other had had issues with her own parents as well. But he's just like this - Diana is all sweetness and light, Charles all bad. Any problems in Diana's family go swept under the carpet, any problems in Charles' - bloated to high heaven.


I'm pretty sure I read how proud of herself Diana was for standing for her principles after pushing her stepmother down the stairs. Perhaps in Morton book? But I'm not inclined to argue the depth of the Spencers' family problems here. My point is that they had them and Harry glossed all over it when lamenting about his inherited pain. I believe it was both desire to paint his father as black as Old Nick and his mother in halo and unwillingness to take the risk that his uncle would take a public stand agaist him while the RF woudn't.


His mother was such a tremendous influence in his life but only with her lightness. Her problems didn't affect him at all, so they were all but nonexistent as far as Harry is concerned while his father's were so tremendous that they crippled his own life and he felt it necessary to speak about them publicly. Nothing will ever convince me that it's fair, balanced or anythig else than biased and spiteful.
I think it's because most Americans don't know the Spencers very well, and blaming them simply doesn't fit Harry's narrative of "Diana = Good, Charles = Bad".
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  #2462  
Old 05-18-2021, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moran View Post
I'm not shifting the blame onto Diana. I'm saying Harry has two parents and he's laying all the "genetic pain" onto one of them when the other had had issues with her own parents as well. But he's just like this - Diana is all sweetness and light, Charles all bad. Any problems in Diana's family go swept under the carpet, any problems in Charles' - bloated to high heaven.


I'm pretty sure I read how proud of herself Diana was for standing for her principles after pushing her stepmother down the stairs. Perhaps in Morton book? But I'm not inclined to argue the depth of the Spencers' family problems here. My point is that they had them and Harry glossed all over it when lamenting about his inherited pain. I believe it was both desire to paint his father as black as Old Nick and his mother in halo and unwillingness to take the risk that his uncle would take a public stand agaist him while the RF woudn't.


His mother was such a tremendous influence in his life but only with her lightness. Her problems didn't affect him at all, so they were all but nonexistent as far as Harry is concerned while his father's were so tremendous that they crippled his own life and he felt it necessary to speak about them publicly. Nothing will ever convince me that it's fair, balanced or anythig else than biased and spiteful.

IMHO since Prince Harry is the one who brought up "genetic pain," it seems appropriate that discussion of the two people and their families who contributed to his DNA should be part of the conversation. Actually in any future mental health discussion, I'd like to hear Prince Harry crediting both of his parents who we know had their own mental health concerns for seeking treatment for their issues.



In regards to the late Diana, Princess of Wales discussing the incident in which she assaulted Raine I'll send you a pm with the information.
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  #2463  
Old 05-18-2021, 11:17 AM
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IF Harry wants to talk "genetic" or "generational" pain then Diana's unhappy childhood and her parents can't be discounted from his public pronouncements. It's clear that it shaped a lot of her choices both good and bad. The dysfunctional nature of the Spencer dynasty has been written about and discussed almost as much as the trials and tribulations of the BRF, continuing as recently as Lady Kitty last week.

But of course Harry is mostly angry at his father for cutting him off and he's positioning himself as "Diana's son" in the US for money so he can't talk about her in that way.

Charles spoke about his issues with his parents but he has also spoken about how much he loves and values them in recent decades and even from pictures, video and his own words in the last month it is clear he and his father had a strong bond and he was genuinely devastated when he died. Possibly another reason Harry should have refrained from publicly talking about this less than a month after the funeral and shown the compassion and respect for other people's privacy they can't stop talking about.

There are ways to talk about your problems and the processes, techniques and resources you used to cope without twisting the knife and if anything it would have been more effective in reaching the people who he claims to want to help because the only thing anyone is reporting on is the juicy bits.

Let's not forget that A) both Charles and Diana regretted the interviews they did and Harry is following them down this *unwise* path and B) less than a year ago when he was still giving them money in FF Charles was a great Dad who was extremely close to Meghan and very supportive in general.
  #2464  
Old 05-18-2021, 11:18 AM
Osipi's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLLK View Post
IMHO in any future mental health discussion, I'd like to hear Prince Harry crediting both of his parents who we know had their own mental health concerns for seeking treatment.
I think in any future mental health discussions from Harry, I'd like to actually hear Harry acknowledge where his attitude towards things were shown to be detrimental to his mental health and how he came to change his way of seeing things. *This* is what mental health awareness really is. It's not pinpointing what the problems are "out there" but pinpointing where our mental perspectives are skewered and causing us problems.
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  #2465  
Old 05-18-2021, 11:26 AM
duchessrachel's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
This is hitting the nail on the head. I can't count how many times I've had the experience of hearing a familiar name but had to actually search to find out more about the person. Right now there are 5 people in my house and out of all them, I am the only one that could tell you anything at all about Harry as a person. So many people know of Harry but they don't know who Harry is.

If I had been in Meghan's shoes at the time and I was about to meet Prince Harry of the UK, I'd have spent a bit of time looking him up too. In fact, it's occurred to me that before engagements and investitures, the royal will be handed a "cheat sheet" with a bit of information about each of the people that they're going to be meeting with a bit of personal information so that "small talk" can go a whole lot smoother.

So, it made sense to me that Meghan googled Harry.
What I have wondered is why Meghan did not thoroughly research the royal family before getting into it. Her failure to do that does not go along with her being the intelligent woman she presents herself to be.
  #2466  
Old 05-18-2021, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLLK View Post
IMHO since Prince Harry is the one who brought up "genetic pain," it seems appropriate that discussion of the two people and their families who contributed to his DNA should be part of the conversation. Actually in any future mental health discussion, I'd like to hear Prince Harry crediting both of his parents who we know had their own mental health concerns for seeking treatment for their issues.
The lack of this equality is what makes me shake my head. If he had decided to focus on things like pain carried through generations, he shouldn't have omitted his mother's. Instead, he threw his father and his father's family under the bus.



But then, I doubt the main purpose was ever do do good to others. It was a talk about himself, mostly. His truth and so on. Facts, incluiding well-published ones, don't seem to matter in this.
  #2467  
Old 05-18-2021, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moran View Post
I'm not shifting the blame onto Diana. I'm saying Harry has two parents and he's laying all the "genetic pain" onto one of them when the other had had issues with her own parents as well. But he's just like this - Diana is all sweetness and light, Charles all bad. Any problems in Diana's family go swept under the carpet, any problems in Charles' - bloated to high heaven.


I'm pretty sure I read how proud of herself Diana was for standing for her principles after pushing her stepmother down the stairs. Perhaps in Morton book? But I'm not inclined to argue the depth of the Spencers' family problems here. My point is that they had them and Harry glossed all over it when lamenting about his inherited pain. I believe it was both desire to paint his father as black as Old Nick and his mother in halo and unwillingness to take the risk that his uncle would take a public stand agaist him while the RF woudn't.


His mother was such a tremendous influence in his life but only with her lightness. Her problems didn't affect him at all, so they were all but nonexistent as far as Harry is concerned while his father's were so tremendous that they crippled his own life and he felt it necessary to speak about them publicly. Nothing will ever convince me that it's fair, balanced or anythig else than biased and spiteful.
I agree. Any reputable counselor that Harry would see would look at all aspects of his upbringing, including both parents. It seems to me that either Harry has not received good counseling or he hasn't put into practice any good counseling he may have received. His continual trashing of his family and his apparent unwillingness to take any responsibility for his own choices indicates to me that he is not qualified to be leading a discussion on successfully dealing with mental health.
  #2468  
Old 05-18-2021, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duchessrachel View Post
What I have wondered is why Meghan did not thoroughly research the royal family before getting into it. Her failure to do that does not go along with her being the intelligent woman she presents herself to be.
Who knows? I don't think there's any compilation anywhere (that I know of, at least) that thoroughly goes into the ins and outs and the idiosyncrasies and dos and don'ts when it comes to being a member of the British Royal Family. There is no generic "How to be a princess/duchess" book or manual. A lot of it could have been naturally ingrained into Harry from birth that he didn't think to mention a lot of things as they were "normal" to him.

I'll be honest here. Even with being here on the forums for going on 13 years now and reading books and learning the history and the way the monarchy works and really being interested in everything about the BRF, I'd still wouldn't have a clue how to fit into that lifestyle and way of doing things. I don't believe that Meghan's intelligence had anything to do with her not knowing much about the family and how it works before she married into it. Even for Diana it was a "learn as you go" kind of experience.
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  #2469  
Old 05-18-2021, 11:52 AM
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It's not going to get the same attention or publicity. The divorce of Johnnie and Frances Spencer was headline news here in 1969 (so I understand - before my time!), but few people in the UK remember it now, and I doubt that it was even reported in the US. Harry criticising the Spencers isn't going to grab headlines in the way that his criticism of the Royal Family will. And I find it hard to believe that a lot of this isn't about attention and publicity. If Harry just wanted to deal with his own issues for his own sake, would he really be talking about them on TV?
  #2470  
Old 05-18-2021, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyDrx View Post
I think it's because most Americans don't know the Spencers very well, and blaming them simply doesn't fit Harry's narrative of "Diana = Good, Charles = Bad".
I think it’s more that some Americans loathe Charles because of Diana, so he’s got a ready made (if small) target audience. This audience remembers Charles Spencer’s eulogy for his sister and wouldn’t buy Harry ripping him. Of course I agree with the last part...
  #2471  
Old 05-18-2021, 12:06 PM
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I really wonder how this is going to end.

At present I can't even see how it's going to end, except that it won't be a happy end.

Harry has shown his true colors and he doesn't even realize how bad it makes him look. It's totally surreal!

I used to genuinely like Harry. I don't like the Harry I'm seeing more and more of for each day. I truly don't.

Man, was I suckered!
  #2472  
Old 05-18-2021, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
It's not going to get the same attention or publicity. The divorce of Johnnie and Frances Spencer was headline news here in 1969 (so I understand - before my time!), but few people in the UK remember it now, and I doubt that it was even reported in the US. Harry criticising the Spencers isn't going to grab headlines in the way that his criticism of the Royal Family will. And I find it hard to believe that a lot of this isn't about attention and publicity. If Harry just wanted to deal with his own issues for his own sake, would he really be talking about them on TV?
But Harry doesn't just want to deal with his own issues for his own sake. He claims to be giving tips to people how to deal with their issues. It seems even weirder that he's omit his maternal family troubled history if he was indeed aiming for utter honesty.
  #2473  
Old 05-18-2021, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moran View Post
I'm not shifting the blame onto Diana. I'm saying Harry has two parents and he's laying all the "genetic pain" onto one of them when the other had had issues with her own parents as well. But he's just like this - Diana is all sweetness and light, Charles all bad. Any problems in Diana's family go swept under the carpet, any problems in Charles' - bloated to high heaven.


I'm pretty sure I read how proud of herself Diana was for standing for her principles after pushing her stepmother down the stairs. Perhaps in Morton book? But I'm not inclined to argue the depth of the Spencers' family problems here. My point is that they had them and Harry glossed all over it when lamenting about his inherited pain. I believe it was both desire to paint his father as black as Old Nick and his mother in halo and unwillingness to take the risk that his uncle would take a public stand agaist him while the RF woudn't.


His mother was such a tremendous influence in his life but only with her lightness. Her problems didn't affect him at all, so they were all but nonexistent as far as Harry is concerned while his father's were so tremendous that they crippled his own life and he felt it necessary to speak about them publicly. Nothing will ever convince me that it's fair, balanced or anythig else than biased and spiteful.
The thing is though Diana did not live a normal life span. She died tragically which does impact how Harry feels. And anybody who loses a parent young would feel. Nobody is all sweetness and light. I think Charles speaking out in 1994 did have an impact on Harry. Charles thoughts on his own parents were made public through his authorized biographer Dimbleby. There have been numerous pictures in any thing about Charles of his mother "shaking hands" with him. He and Diana had resolved to be more hands on and both Charles and DIana were tactile with their sons.

I don't think Harry "dislikes" his father in the interview with Oprah what I saw was a lot of hurt with his father not returning his calls. ANd no, I don't think he was calling to get money from his father.

The stepmother was not "pushed down the stairs." The incident recorded involved a step or two. The point is that if what Diana did was so "vile" her stepmother would not speak to her. They actually became close. And in the years after Diana died, Raine spoke lovingly about her stepdaughter. The stepmother was there and she forgave Diana.

I do notice that in some of the literature of C and D, C harles was made to look like the "good one." And Diana "all bad". So it goes both ways.

Everybody has problems, everybody is human.
  #2474  
Old 05-18-2021, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
I really wonder how this is going to end.

At present I can't even see how it's going to end, except that it won't be a happy end.

Harry has shown his true colors and he doesn't even realize how bad it makes him look. It's totally surreal!

I used to genuinely like Harry. I don't like the Harry I'm seeing more and more of for each day. I truly don't.

Man, was I suckered!
I think it’s going to only get worse, especially for Charles as there will be Diana tributes - again - in the next year or so, and since he’s Harry’s favorite target. With Philip and Charles, they made peace and grew much closer...but I don’t see that happening with Charles and Harry. For one thing, Harry is continually taking pot shots - it wasn’t a one time thing. For another, much of what H says is inaccurate (his father treating him like he was treated, etc..), so we don’t know how far he will go in his efforts to damage his father. He also supports the Crown’s interpretation of Charles as a villain. Charles will always love his son, but there is only so much he csn take. I hope he takes comfort in loving and being loved by his eldest son and their family.
  #2475  
Old 05-18-2021, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moran View Post
But Harry doesn't just want to deal with his own issues for his own sake. He claims to be giving tips to people how to deal with their issues. It seems even weirder that he's omit his maternal family troubled history if he was indeed aiming for utter honesty.
He shouldn’t be giving advice to anyone. Not only is he not qualified to do so, but his own feelings about his family are coloring everything he says
  #2476  
Old 05-18-2021, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
I really wonder how this is going to end.

At present I can't even see how it's going to end, except that it won't be a happy end.

Harry has shown his true colors and he doesn't even realize how bad it makes him look. It's totally surreal!

I used to genuinely like Harry. I don't like the Harry I'm seeing more and more of for each day. I truly don't.

Man, was I suckered!
I'm also not liking much what I see of Harry these days but I can't, for the life of me, believe that the Harry we're seeing right now are his true colors and that everything good about the man was either faked or non-existent. I believe that what we're seeing from Harry right now is reflective of a man that is totally lost in the world around him and trying too hard to make his life relevant to himself. He's proving time and time again that he really has no clue what he's talking about and its making him look bad and he doesn't even realize it.

Sometimes I think a person needs to tear down everything that they used to be in order to build a better, healthier outlook on life. The process though is filled with potholes and mistakes and goofs and challenges. I can only hope that the end result is one that makes Harry genuinely happy and at peace with himself and his world around him. We're all just being brought in to witness Harry's wild ride right now. Most people prefer to do theirs in private.
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  #2477  
Old 05-18-2021, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I think it’s going to only get worse, especially for Charles as there will be Diana tributes - again - in the next year or so, and since he’s Harry’s favorite target. With Philip and Charles, they made peace and grew much closer...but I don’t see that happening with Charles and Harry. For one thing, Harry is continually taking pot shots - it wasn’t a one time thing. For another, much of what H says is inaccurate (his father treating him like he was treated, etc..), so we don’t know how far he will go in his efforts to damage his father. He also supports the Crown’s interpretation of Charles as a villain. Charles will always love his son, but there is only so much he csn take. I hope he takes comfort in loving and being loved by his eldest son and their family.
I think Harry loves his father but was hurt. The same as Charles and Philip, while Charles was talking about his "unhappy" childhood to Dimbleby I truly think he never stopped loving them. I believe Harry that Charles did not return his calls and I don' t think he called to ask for money.

And Charles was about Harry's age when he complained to Dimbleby about his parents. I don't know how long it took for there to be a reconciliation but one happened eventually. When I heard this, I never thought Charles hated his parents he just had grievances. Bedell Smith recorded how Charles reached out to his parents and no, it was not immediately after Dimbleby confessions to put it mildly. It takes time.

It takes two to end this, Charles should reach out to his younger son and his family and not just consider William and his family "all he has left." That is rather negative and suppose he and William had fall outs. They supposedly did not see eye to eye at times. In 2017 at the anniversary of Diana's death, Charles wanted William to mention how supportive he was after his mother died. William did not which caused some issues.
  #2478  
Old 05-18-2021, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandy345 View Post
The thing is though Diana did not live a normal life span. She died tragically which does impact how Harry feels. And anybody who loses a parent young would feel. Nobody is all sweetness and light. I think Charles speaking out in 1994 did have an impact on Harry. Charles thoughts on his own parents were made public through his authorized biographer Dimbleby. There have been numerous pictures in any thing about Charles of his mother "shaking hands" with him. He and Diana had resolved to be more hands on and both Charles and DIana were tactile with their sons.

I don't think Harry "dislikes" his father in the interview with Oprah what I saw was a lot of hurt with his father not returning his calls. ANd no, I don't think he was calling to get money from his father.

The stepmother was not "pushed down the stairs." The incident recorded involved a step or two. The point is that if what Diana did was so "vile" her stepmother would not speak to her. They actually became close. And in the years after Diana died, Raine spoke lovingly about her stepdaughter. The stepmother was there and she forgave Diana.

I do notice that in some of the literature of C and D, C harles was made to look like the "good one." And Diana "all bad". So it goes both ways.

Everybody has problems, everybody is human.

Excuse me but I find it very disturbing that anyone here would try to downplay this assault. This was elder abuse and it should have never happened in the first place.


I'm glad that the two women were reconciled at the end, but it doesn't take away that this was a case of domestic violence.


Back to Prince Harry, if he's going to discuss genetic pain in his mental health podcast, IMO he needs to definitely address his mother's part in raising him instead of only pointing fingers at Charles and his paternal grandparents. Diana's childhood like Charles' included nannies and boarding school as well as absences from a parent for weeks/months at a time. No doubt those shared experiences, played a part in how Charles and Diana chose to parent their sons too.
  #2479  
Old 05-18-2021, 12:29 PM
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If the stepmother forgave her, and she did not consider it an "assault" that's waht matters. Diana is not "evil" nor was arrested for it. That's all I will say on the topic. We agree to disagree.
  #2480  
Old 05-18-2021, 12:46 PM
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As I posted before, I cannot blame Charles for his comments about his upbringing,
especially as these were part of a biography which consists of one's life :)

I start to wonder if all these interviews some royals (not only the british) have given in the past are a symptom of their struggles with their royal role. The court does not comment on private matters and obviously their peers to talk to are not sufficient in some matters.
There seems to be a strong longing to share their truths with the public, if it was Charles, Diana, Joachim or now Harry.

Harry seems to be a special "case" because of the frequency and intensity,
but he has not been the only one who has chosen this path.

Plus the pandemic which has effected so many people.
It's useless to talk about what if,
but the Sussex' plan for 2020 certainly looked different than what it turned out to be.
Maybe their frustration rose and culminated in what we see now,
not to excuse any if it.
There was a time I hoped they'd be quiet when shutting down their social media,
now it looks as if they only changed to the media which pay out most for them.

I really wonder what a psychoanalyst would say to this royal phenomenon of sharing private stuff with a huge audience, it's occurred too often to be called coincidentally.
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