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  #2261  
Old 05-16-2021, 01:01 PM
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I am a bit hesitant to write - I must admit that I was not entirely surprised as we were expecting such a thing. sorry to say that there is more in the Apple TV show and probably more after that.
This is what I think might be happening:
They never got what they wanted out of the Oprah interview - so they are continuing with releasing information until they get it. We expect that very soon he will start talking about the rest of the family soon. Maybe more of his alcohol and drug use.
Harry seems to do a lot of regurgitation of things that other people have sprouted and told him about - Inherited pain or genetic pain. Is he finding his own voice or has it just been replaced by everyone elses?


I also just don't understand his very black and white thinking. And I am concerned about that as that is something most people grow out of before 25, he lacks self inspection. I am also concerned that he has a very screwed view on things and that is concerning. A lot of what he is saying just doesn't mesh with the truth. Many royals live relatively normal quiet lives - no Truman show going on there. We see royals at engagement so that would be a few hours a week, no more.
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  #2262  
Old 05-16-2021, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
That was odd to me too. Harry specifically referenced Charles going to a school he hated- Gordonstoun while he was talking about how he (Harry) was parented the same way his father was. That makes no sense, given that Charles pointedly sent his kids to a different school. And that is ONE example. Charles did things differently than his parents, just as William and Harry have. (Charles does seem to be a workaholic similar to his parents, but IDK if Harry was referencing that. But- lots of people are. Especially in America.)

Like a lot of things Harry says- there doesnít seem to be much coherency and consistency. He seems to be relying on having an audience who is largely unknowledgeable about him/the wider family and who donít pay enough attention to catch obvious contradictions.

Note: Thereís nothing wrong with the school. It simply wasnít right for Charles. But I donít believe Philip intended to hurt Charles. That was what he knew and what worked for him. Philip had his own very tumultuous childhood, that naturally impacted him. He just didnít publicly complain about it.
Gordonstoun might actually have been a good fit for Harry and Zara and Peter seemed to like it. For Philip it was about the only place he had to call home for many years since he didn't have parents. A point which Harry didn't acknowledge either despite the fact that news on this was hard to escape in the last few weeks. And Meghan's leaks even made a point to say that their so called "special bond" was because he knew what it was like to be a foreign outsider. But that was last month's narrative. You're right that he seems to be banking on people not realising or caring about contradictions.

It was strange he didn't acknowledge that Eton is about as different from Gordonstoun as you can get and still be a public school in the UK and that Philip's reaction to Charles being caught taking drugs would probably NOT have been to take him to a rehab where patients told him that they too started on weed and to be careful. Not that that seems to have worked.

He's also still on about that blessed bike when there are many, many pictures of them riding together when he was a kid over about 15 years and there are reports of the Cambridges bike riding in the park without being splashed across the papers.

There was also nothing on the tumultuous Spencer family life his mother grew up in which surely impacted many of her choices both good and bad.

And at the end of the day if anyone in the family went on a podcast and gave a run down of their deteriorating relationship with him I think they'd be handed a lawsuit in about 5 seconds flat along with Gayle screaming about compassion and privacy.

Harry doesn't seem to be in a good place and didn't discuss his own healing process or how to get help in a constructive way. He seems to think him just saying this is helping people but I don't think it is.

William's way, including his documentary where he also spoke about his mother and family but it didn't dominate seems more constructive and productive.
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  #2263  
Old 05-16-2021, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
I posted this article in the William thread, but it could also go here to focus more on the Harry part. Itís a compare/contrast of these 2 men and their approaches to life. It was quite thoughtful IMO.

The Telegraph
William and Harry: two dukes Ė two very different approaches to happiness



https://www.yahoo.com/news/william-h...165224624.html

I found this part particularly interesting regarding Harry. He does indeed seem to be hanging onto his familyís mistakes.


ďMost teenagers start seeing their parents as imperfect, but Harry lost his mother before that could happen. Now in his thirties, and in therapy speak, he blames Prince Charles for the ďgenetic painĒ he feels. Many think it is about time he stops playing the victim card.

Of course, like all those who have had turbulent upbringings, there is nothing wrong with trying to ďbreak the cycle of pain and sufferingĒ Ė and, as William has demonstrated, there are many non self-destructive ways to do this, including just getting on with parenting your own children. Instead, Harry seems to hang on tightly to his familyís mistakes.Ē
I read that last night. Overall a good piece, but I have a huge issue with the part I bolded. I donít know if she meant to, but sheís implying that thereís a cycle to break (and as that expression is associated with abuse, I loathe using it in other situations)...
  #2264  
Old 05-16-2021, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Queen Ester View Post
what does he mean by this phase " There's a lot of genetic pain and suffering that gets passed on anyway"
complete word salad
It is a pseudo-science that is currently getting a bit of head space due to identity politics and woke culture. Essentially it is the old sins of the father manta from old. That the mental pain of your great grandparents are embedded into your mental makeup.
So all the emotions pain and sufferings that your ancestries went through are on you.
Personally I think it is a lot of hooey.
I am not my parents, not my grandparents and never got to met my great grandparents. I shudder to think of blaming my mistakes on my great grandparents that I never met - I cannot blame my divorce, my arguments with my children or anything problem in life I have on my parents, or indeed anyone but myself. They do not control my decisions or my free will.
That is called been an adult.
  #2265  
Old 05-16-2021, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Claire View Post
I am a bit hesitant to write - I must admit that I was not entirely surprised as we were expecting such a thing. sorry to say that there is more in the Apple TV show and probably more after that.
This is what I think might be happening:
They never got what they wanted out of the Oprah interview - so they are continuing with releasing information until they get it. We expect that very soon he will start talking about the rest of the family soon. Maybe more of his alcohol and drug use.
Harry seems to do a lot of regurgitation of things that other people have sprouted and told him about - Inherited pain or genetic pain. Is he finding his own voice or has it just been replaced by everyone elses?


I also just don't understand his very black and white thinking. And I am concerned about that as that is something most people grow out of before 25, he lacks self inspection. I am also concerned that he has a very screwed view on things and that is concerning. A lot of what he is saying just doesn't mesh with the truth. Many royals live relatively normal quiet lives - no Truman show going on there. We see royals at engagement so that would be a few hours a week, no more.
What did they want out of Oprah? Full public capitulation and agreement that they could be HIHO and allowed to sue anyone who says Meghan is less than the 2nd coming?

I think there will be more of it with Oprah/The Me You Don't See and maybe more titbits and baiting about the "racist" royals and another five changes in narrative but isn't it all diminishing returns? Is anyone apart from the tabloids and us royal watchers of various stripes going to care at the 1oth round of complaining and revelations?

You're obviously right that most royals live quiet lives off duty, even the Cambridges and HM and them too with reports that they were seen out and about in Windsor with no one bothering them and not photos taken. I'm not convinced that's actually what Meghan at least wanted considering she admitted to setting up pap pictures in FF and one doesn't just suddenly wake up to find themselves living in Tyler Perry's mansion.
  #2266  
Old 05-16-2021, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
That was odd to me too. Harry specifically referenced Charles going to a school he hated- Gordonstoun while he was talking about how he (Harry) was parented the same way his father was. That makes no sense, given that Charles pointedly sent his kids to a different school. And that is ONE example. Charles did things differently than his parents, just as William and Harry have. (Charles does seem to be a workaholic similar to his parents, but IDK if Harry was referencing that. But- lots of people are. Especially in America.)

Like a lot of things Harry says- there doesnít seem to be much coherency and consistency. He seems to be relying on having an audience who is largely unknowledgeable about him/the wider family and who donít pay enough attention to catch obvious contradictions.

Note: Thereís nothing wrong with the school. It simply wasnít right for Charles. But I donít believe Philip intended to hurt Charles. That was what he knew and what worked for him. Philip had his own very tumultuous childhood, that naturally impacted him. He just didnít publicly complain about it.

Youíre right that there are many inconsistencies in Harryís comments, and I think itís because heís throwing things out there hoping they will stick with people even if he knows they arenít accurate. I mean, his comment about Charles treating him like he was treated - did Harry read the Dimbleby interview ? Doubt it, unless when he was an adult. Did his father open up to him about his frustrations with his childhood? No way - unless it was as part of an honest conversation when Harry was much older, and if that was the case, Harry would have known by then that his father and grandfather had made peace and grown a lot closer. Therefore, the only reason to bring up Charles and Philipís relationship is to use their old one against them and to justify his accusations of essentially mistreatment.

Harry has no business speaking for anyone other than himself. He hates the Royal life? Fine, but that doesnít mean his family feels the same way. Heís trying to psychoanalyze them, and he needs to stop.
  #2267  
Old 05-16-2021, 01:30 PM
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I am still trying to understand the 'genetic' aspects of his pain (next to being convinced that this is not helping in anyway to alleviate his pain but will only add to his and also to his children's future pain).

What is 'genetic' about it? Isn't life full of learning from past mistakes and successes (by yourself and those around you) and making conscious decisions on what you want to continue in your adult life and which things you might want to do (slightly or completely) differently than what you grew up with. Especially if a couple comes together they will have to find a way to make things work taking into account the different backgrounds they are coming from. Lashing out doesn't seem to be the most productive way to deal with it (understatement).

Harry and Meghan both coming from broken families clearly isn't the best start, so I hope they will avoid continuing the cycle of broken families. Ensuring a more private life might be a good start for the future mental health of their children.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
What did they want out of Oprah? Full public capitulation and agreement that they could be HIHO and allowed to sue anyone who says Meghan is less than the 2nd coming?
Based on the later comments from their camp that the talks with the BRF weren't 'productive', it seems they indeed want something (money? position? security? the BRF to kowtow to whatever they want at any moment?) from them.
  #2268  
Old 05-16-2021, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Heavs View Post

He's also still on about that blessed bike when there are many, many pictures of them riding together when he was a kid over about 15 years and there are reports of the Cambridges bike riding in the park without being splashed across the papers.

There was also nothing on the tumultuous Spencer family life his mother grew up in which surely impacted many of her choices both good and bad.
The bike thing really bothers me. Itís as if Harry is trying to airbrush Charles out of any positive narrative he has in his life...itís all his mother. Remember how he referenced only her when the Archewell site opened ? No mention of his father. At all. Anyway, Harry was plenty old enough to remember bike rides with his pa, and tickle sessions (thereís a photo of this when Harry was a teenager) and other good times. He has even spoken about them, and the influence his father has had on he and William regarding the environment, shutting off lights, etc.. I never got the impression that H was holding in so much repressed anger; those comments, and others, spoke of a son who loved his pa. What about Charles being there for Meghan and walking her down the aisle? Being so warm with Doria? We even had reports that M encouraged H to grow closer to his pa. I really believe that H was envious of Williamís position, that because of that, he took umbrage at Charlesí support of HM in refusing H and M a court at Windsor ...and then grew angry when being cut off. I suspect he feels his father might not love or value him as much as W, so now heís unleashing his bitterness, even much of what he says isnít true.
  #2269  
Old 05-16-2021, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
Youíre right that there are many inconsistencies in Harryís comments, and I think itís because heís throwing things out there hoping they will stick with people even if he knows they arenít accurate. I mean, his comment about Charles treating him like he was treated - did Harry read the Dimbleby interview ? Doubt it, unless when he was an adult. Did his father open up to him about his frustrations with his childhood? No way - unless it was as part of an honest conversation when Harry was much older, and if that was the case, Harry would have known by then that his father and grandfather had made peace and grown a lot closer. Therefore, the only reason to bring up Charles and Philipís relationship is to use their old one against them and to justify his accusations of essentially mistreatment.

Harry has no business speaking for anyone other than himself. He hates the Royal life? Fine, but that doesnít mean his family feels the same way. Heís trying to psychoanalyze them, and he needs to stop.
Personally I don't think Harry knows Charles, Diana or his grandparents well at all - it sounds like he has watched the Crown.

What did you make about the "I saw the business model and I wasn't having it" Does monarchy have a business model?
  #2270  
Old 05-16-2021, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Claire View Post
Personally I don't think Harry knows Charles, Diana or his grandparents well at all - it sounds like he has watched the Crown.

What did you make about the "I saw the business model and I wasn't having it" Does monarchy have a business model?
It does seem like he's watched too much of The Crown and decided it's a documentary because it fits the current anger he has.

I assumed with the "business model" and "behind the scenes" quotes he meant that the heir and the heir's wife would always be first and he and Meghan would eventually drift into Edward (if he was lucky) or Andrew (if he wasn't lucky) territory.

Having previously been the popular People's Prince wasn't going to get him and the missus on the throne or any of the perks associated with it. No separate court etc. Even though he's also admitted several times now that he doesn't want to be king and doesn't like any of the actual visiting people/boring parts of the work anyway.

But once again it wasn't like he was being asked to open a community centre in Dunstable just yet anyway. They were given plum jobs.

Quote:
What about Charles being there for Meghan and walking her down the aisle? Being so warm with Doria? We even had reports that M encouraged H to grow closer to his pa. I really believe that H was envious of Williamís position, that because of that, he took umbrage at Charlesí support of HM in refusing H and M a court at Windsor ...and then grew angry when being cut off. I suspect he feels his father might not love or value him as much as W, so now heís unleashing his bitterness, even much of what he says isnít true.
Any part of Charles once being there for Meghan when her own father wasn't, publicly supporting the marriage and seemingly genuinely kind to Doria has been airbrushed out of the narrative because he's no longer paying the bills it seems.
  #2271  
Old 05-16-2021, 01:57 PM
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IF the Sussexes have their ducal titles revoked by Parliament, it will not be initiated by HMQ. I think she is happy to pass that along to her son Charles to deal with when he comes to the throne. She is a widowed, probably tired woman in the home stretch of her life's journey. Enough is enough.

But reading some of these comments about Harry's podcast "discourse" I think it probably needs to happen sooner rather than later. Harry himself might be in a "go ahead...I DARE you to!" frame of mind knowing the huge blow back of public sympathy it would generate for him from certain quarters in the US.

He sees himself as someone who has taken on "the system" and won what he views as freedom for himself, his children and his descendants. In reality what has happened is that a spoiled, thwarted man-child is in the grip of a full blown tantrum and lacks the foresight to understand what he is doing.

I have read similar stories too many times to count.

It never, ever ends well.
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  #2272  
Old 05-16-2021, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Claire View Post
Personally I don't think Harry knows Charles, Diana or his grandparents well at all - it sounds like he has watched the Crown.

What did you make about the "I saw the business model and I wasn't having it" Does monarchy have a business model?
Iíll be honest, Iíve only read some of the comments, so this is the first Iím seeing it. I think itís ridiculous, to be frank. The Royals do a lot of good work, and I hate how Harry is shrugging that off; he makes it sound like itís a soulless corporation. It feels, frankly, like he no longer views his ďfamilyĒ as living, breathing human beings. I put ďfamilyĒ in quotes because Harry isnít treating them as such.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
IF the Sussexes have their ducal titles revoked by Parliament, it will not be initiated by HMQ. I think she is happy to pass that along to her son Charles to deal with when he comes to the throne. She is a widowed, probably tired woman in the home stretch of her life's journey. Enough is enough.

But reading some of these comments about Harry's podcast "discourse" I think it probably needs to happen sooner rather than later. Harry himself might be in a "go ahead...I DARE you to!" frame of mind knowing the huge blow back of public sympathy it would generate for him from certain quarters in the US.

He sees himself as someone who has taken on "the system" and won what he views as freedom for himself, his children and his descendants. In reality what has happened is that a spoiled, thwarted man-child is in the grip of a full blown tantrum and lacks the foresight to understand what he is doing.

I have read similar stories too many times to count.

It never, ever ends well.
Harry seems to have rejected the UK completely in favor of the States...and not just the States, but the ďlifestyles of the rich and famousĒ. I guess he doesnít care or understand that 99.9% of Americans donít care about him or even ordinary celebrities.

The bolded part is a very good point. I guess we can call Harry a ďSon of LibertyĒ. He clearly did feel he was imprisoned in some way - Finding Freedom speaks volumes.
  #2273  
Old 05-16-2021, 02:35 PM
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Exactly. Harry has embraced the America of the privileged few. The VERY few. If he was forced to live like the majority of Americans...taking out a 2nd mortgage to afford college for your children....worried about job security..job burnout...dicey public school systems and street crime. ...not being able to go on holidays this summer due to budget constraints....unable to quit an unsatisfactory job because you will lose healthcare benefits..rising gasoline prices..

Let's just say his romanticized view of life in the USA would evaporate pretty quickly.
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  #2274  
Old 05-16-2021, 02:39 PM
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The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 4: April 2021 -

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Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
And at the end of the day if anyone in the family went on a podcast and gave a run down of their deteriorating relationship with him I think they'd be handed a lawsuit in about 5 seconds flat along with Gayle screaming about compassion and privacy.



Harry doesn't seem to be in a good place and didn't discuss his own healing process or how to get help in a constructive way. He seems to think him just saying this is helping people but I don't think it is.

This is one of the more mind blowing parts to me. If Harryís family did unto him (and Meghan for that matter) what theyíve done to their family, the Sussexes would be screaming about lack of compassion, no respect for privacy. There is no way theyíd be okay with their family giving their own side of the story IMO. (And they know good and well they donít have to worry about it. How fortunate for them.) Yet they canít practice either one for their own family.

Their brand is compassion.....but they donít practice it IMO. This is not compassion. If you canít be compassionate to your own family, you really have no business preaching on the subject IMO. They come across as so completely hypocritical to me.

I donít think what heís saying is helpful for anyone either. Not this way. He could use his experiences in a constructive manner.

And really? What are the media/social media talking about? Harryís relationship with his family. THAT is the over-all public focus at the end of the day.
  #2275  
Old 05-16-2021, 02:43 PM
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The more I hear about and the more I read about Harry coming out and being "woke" and promoting mental health by portraying what he's gone through and his thoughts on it, I'm reminded more and more of the TV six part documentary that Oprah presented in 2011 called "Finding Sarah" featuring Sarah, Duchess of York. It didn't do Sarah any favors. Most people won't even remember that she did this back in 2011. At least Sarah had the dignity and the grace to leave the royal family out of it all.

This is the sequel being presented now. "Finding Harry". Bigger, badder and bolder than ever seen before. This is aimed as entertainment. I've yet to hear that Harry's mentioned actual accredited mental health professionals or even sources to get in touch with if needed. If I'm wrong here, please correct me. If you're reaching out to people that need help, you do so in a way that they actually can *find* help. Harry's diatribe about his woeful life sounds too much to me like he's sitting on a pity pot and he's about to go out and eat some worms because the world is was totally against him. I do believe this is all real to Harry but I don't think he's seeing how he's coming across to people that don't know him or have walked a mile in his shoes. His life and lifestyle is something that people just don't understand. In order to communicate, you need to speak to people in a language they understand. Harry, being focused so much on himself, isn't doing that.

I'm an avid advocate that everyone should be accepted for who they are and how they want to live their lives. It's all part and parcel of being happy within and at peace. But to just park it in a chair and throw the blame on everything "out there" and to actively denigrate people that love you publicly is just digging himself into a deeper and deeper hole that I don't think he's ever going to get himself out of.
I had totally forgotten about ďFinding SarahĒ on Oprah! It was embarrassing then and did her absolutely no good and Harry is doing exactly the same thing. It will be embarrassing as well and certainly do even more damage to his family relationships.
  #2276  
Old 05-16-2021, 02:48 PM
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Question - how do you think he will fair without Spotify or Netflix?
I do not think that the comment towards Joe Rogan went down well - and considering he is the highest rated podcaster on the planet and flagship show of Spotify. It might be interesting if Rogan doesn't want H & M on the bill anymore.
I do not think their Netflix contracts or indeed any of the work that have found is very safe or secure. They have build their 'empire' on the sand and feel superiors enough to go to war.
  #2277  
Old 05-16-2021, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
But will businesses, whose job is to make money, want someone who is always going on about his family and how badly he's been treated? Esp if his stories get confusing? Might they not feel that he might turn on the companies that hire him, after a while?
Yep, professional he is NOT in this podcast. I donít think that will go over well in business in the US. Dax Shepherd is an actor and certainly not A list. But his wife Kristin Bell is. Dax just got publicity for his podcast - Iíve never even heard of it before. So Iím sure Dax is happy about that.
  #2278  
Old 05-16-2021, 03:02 PM
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Funny, I had thought that Harry was sincere in his liking the charity work side of royal duties, and that he was sincere in caring about people less fortunate. NOw it seems like he didn't even like that....
  #2279  
Old 05-16-2021, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Harry said very little about his grandparentsí parenting that hasnít been said before by his father. I think Harry was speaking within Mental Health Week about how disfunction within families can occur generation after generation and that sometimes that cycle just has to be stopped by going away, trying a different way of parenting, of family life that isnít led in a system that can be inimical to relationships.
Yes, what Charles said is in the public domain through primarily the Jonathan Dimbleby book of 1994.
  #2280  
Old 05-16-2021, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Royalist.in.NC View Post
Yep, professional he is NOT in this podcast. I donít think that will go over well in business in the US. Dax Shepherd is an actor and certainly not A list. But his wife Kristin Bell is. Dax just got publicity for his podcast - Iíve never even heard of it before. So Iím sure Dax is happy about that.
As far as I can see, they haven't done anything for Netflix yet, though perhaps there are plans in the offing. But I feel unsure if documentaries about charities are going ot make a lot of money for Netflix and if the company isn't getting much out of them, how long will the deal last?
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