The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 4: April-June 2021

[Alison H]

There are some very distressing statistics about the mental health of people who've left the Armed Forces, and also about the mental health of young men in general. I can certainly see the Queen and Prince Charles supporting a documentary series on mental health if they were given the impression that it'd be about that. However, I can't see why Harry would have discussed anything with Thomas Markle. He's never even met him, his own father-in-law.


Lady Gaga has been widely praised in the UK media for her bravery in speaking out about her horrific ordeal. No-one's got a problem with the programme per se, just with Harry using it to attack his family and say things which don't ring true.

 

[Erin9]

I wonder also if Harry is LOOKING to find things to be angry about because he thinks he should....

I’ve wondered if he’s looking for things to be angry about so he can justify to himself- and everyone else- why he left the family business and moved to another country. Sometimes that’s what this feels like- one long, seemingly never-ending justification.

While Charles is getting pummeled the most by name, he hasn’t held back in his criticism of the institution OR his family. He didn’t just label Charles as totally neglectful, uncaring etc etc of Meghan in Oprah 2. It was “family.” So- obviously more than Charles.

All this bashing...I’m going to confuse what he said when. I’m already getting lost in his ever- changing narratives.

And now we get a follow up.....yea.

 

[Osipi]

To look at all this in, perhaps, a different perspective, what Harry is doing right now and exhibiting may actually be something that is going to benefit him in the long run. Maybe not in terms of his relationship with his family overly much as his actions are never excusable and are very hurtful to other people but helpful to Harry when the realization that what he has done is a result of Harry trying to rationalize and discover what his issues really are.

Rationalization actually is a process which one goes through to discover and find causes and effects on where the problems lie in their lives. This definition is, to me, almost textbook in defining the Harry of today.

"Rationalization is a disavowal defense mechanism which permits an individual to deal with emotional conflicts, or internal or external stressors, by devising reassuring or self-serving but incorrect explanations for his or her own or others' thoughts, actions, or feelings, which cover up other motives (Perry 1990)"

I have to think that just reading and participating in this thread has really made me think more and more of the importance of our own mental health and any issues that we do face in life. Of course, we're also seeing from Harry good examples of what not to do too.

 

[Heavs]

I’ve wondered if he’s looking for things to be angry about so he can justify to himself- and everyone else- why he left the family business and moved to another country. Sometimes that’s what this feels like- one long, seemingly never-ending justification.

While Charles is getting pummeled the most by name, he hasn’t held back in his criticism of the institution OR his family. He didn’t just label Charles as totally neglectful, uncaring etc etc of Meghan in Oprah 2. It was “family.” So- obviously more than Charles.

All this bashing...I’m going to confuse what he said when. I’m already getting lost in his ever- changing narratives.

And now we get a follow up.....yea.

The Nepal visit stuff has to be "looking for justification" since even in September 2020 he was talking warmly about his visit and even if it was exhausting he stayed their a week longer than he had to. And it was for a humanitarian crisis and veterans he had personally served with.

His next official overseas trip wasn't until 8 months later but he *had* been flying back and forward to see Meghan during that time and by his own mouth was heavily drinking and drugging which doesn't help anyone's state of mind.

This is pure justification: Why does he think it was everyone else's responsibility to get help for Meghan? Especially when he said previously that he didn't ask for help? Why not get doctors orders for a year off? They were clearly willing to accept a long maternity leave and extra time off plus a possible move to Africa.

I can see HM signing off on Harry doing a mental health doc, William did one in his role as President of the FA "Football, Prince William and Our Mental Health" which was quite good and had William sharing personal stories about how his trauma affected him without oversharing or overshadowing other's stories.

I'm sure originally it was pitched as the same sort of thing.

Their Spotify podcast doesn't seem to be happening and their Netflix content has so far leaned heavily on the biggest thing he was known for before: Invictus. He has found that trashing his family is what currently pays the bills and keeps the any traction he has going and that some are on his side. And since I don't believe he's happy with being cut off etc, it's two birds, one stone, many different stories.

 

[Betsypaige]

I’ve wondered if he’s looking for things to be angry about so he can justify to himself- and everyone else- why he left the family business and moved to another country. Sometimes that’s what this feels like- one long, seemingly never-ending justification.

While Charles is getting pummeled the most by name, he hasn’t held back in his criticism of the institution OR his family. He didn’t just label Charles as totally neglectful, uncaring etc etc of Meghan in Oprah 2. It was “family.” So- obviously more than Charles.

All this bashing...I’m going to confuse what he said when. I’m already getting lost in his ever- changing narratives.

And now we get a follow up.....yea.

I think that's probably it....and it's not just one big justification, it's a public one. After all his demands for privacy, Harry is revealing more of himself than any media outlet could possibly do - I have to laugh at the hypocrisy.

You're right - Charles is getting hit on the head with a hammer, but H is silently bayoneting his family at the same time, including his granny and just buried grandpa. I expect he thinks that this will sell papers and put money in his pockets, but again, there's that pesky diminishing returns.......and people are already done with his schtick.

Follow up to the Apple podcast, follow up to Finding Freedom....H talks about his life being like The Truman Show, except he's the one putting this show on the air. Maybe he should change the channel.

ETA:

I would also say that Harry must have felt he was in a good place mentally for him to even consider producing a series like this. I seriously doubt he was going talk about the importance of mental health, the benefits of therapy, if he wasn’t doing well and therapy hadn’t helped; it would not only be disgraceful, but it wouldn’t make any practical sense as he wouldn’t have any success stories about himself to relate.

 

[Osipi]

I would also say that Harry must have felt he was in a good place mentally for him to even consider producing a series like this. I seriously doubt he was going talk about the importance of mental health, the benefits of therapy, if he wasn’t doing well and therapy hadn’t helped; it would not only be disgraceful, but it wouldn’t make any practical sense as he wouldn’t have any success stories about himself to relate. So now, 2 plus years later, he's regressed so badly that he's had to seek further therapy, which is leading him to attack his family publicly? Which had him completely mislead his family about the program so that they would be completely shocked in addition to being hurt? The sad thing is, no matter what he does, they will still love him.....and as much of his family is older, H isn't going to have forever to rectify things.

I don't think it's sad at all. Perhaps the family's unconditional love will be a much needed support system in the future. This doesn't mean they accept him back into the fold with no recriminations or unease but to be there and willing to listen to Harry should he stop being "woke" and "wakes up and smells the garbage he's been spewing and realizing it stinks". To be able to hear an honest and humble Harry and forgive him. This is what is going to take a hell of a lot of work, and you're right, time is short.

 

[ACO]

What is "woke" about Harry? What does that even mean? I wish folks would retire that word. It is just.... oy.

 

[Osipi]

What is "woke" about Harry? What does that even mean? I wish folks would retire that word. It is just.... oy.

For me, "woke" is word salad for jumping on the latest bandwagon that's rolling through town. Everything and anything then becomes identified with the issues proclaimed from said bandwagon.

 

[Betsypaige]

I don't think it's sad at all. Perhaps the family's unconditional love will be a much needed support system in the future. This doesn't mean they accept him back into the fold with no recriminations or unease but to be there and willing to listen to Harry should he stop being "woke" and "wakes up and smells the garbage he's been spewing and realizing it stinks". To be able to hear an honest and humble Harry and forgive him. This is what is going to take a hell of a lot of work, and you're right, time is short.

What I meant was that it’s sad that they will love him no matter what, and he doesn’t appreciate that. I think unconditional love is powerful stuff, and ultimately will likely be what brings him around. However, if it happens too late, that will be a burden Harry will have to live with for the rest of his life.

 

[Purrs]

For me, "woke" is word salad for jumping on the latest bandwagon that's rolling through town. Everything and anything then becomes identified with the issues proclaimed from said bandwagon.

It's much more specific than bandwagon jumping, Osipi.

According to Oxford Languages who provides the definition for Google, it means
"alert to injustice in society, especially racism.".

It's being used in a prejorative way in some right wing media to criticize & name call people who support racial justice (like me & hopefully most people in this forum). I dislike its usage in this forum to criticize Harry because of its political overtones. (Yes, I've been called this term online as an insult in other places.)

Like many here (including you Osipi) I've become very disappointed in Harry in his recent behaviour and public criticism of his family. Like many people, I was initially supportive of him and Meghan but feel that they've handled things very poorly in the past year. I also agree that their public comments have been contradictory, damaging to the future of family relationships, hurting their own reputations and damaging their own charity. As many have pointed out, this behaviour of publicly airing of family grievances isn't good for Harry's mental health either.

I think people can discuss all of these things without resulting to polarizing political name calling labels like "woke" "social justice warrior" or "cancel culture".

 

[Leopoldine]

What is "woke" about Harry? What does that even mean? I wish folks would retire that word. It is just.... oy.

I hate it too, along with "compassionate", "community" and "stories".

I appreciate "inclusive". He's trying. He's opening the door.

The last thing those two want is regular joes lining up telling their stories. Unbelievable!

It's like they never watched Parliament, when backbench MPs continually submit questions on behalf of needy constituents or local groups.

 

[Osipi]

Thanks much for the clarification on what the term "woke" means. I was not aware of that. In fact, I do not pay much attention to these kind of things (as a rule). Sure I try and keep up to date on current events but keep myself far removed from identifying myself with anything on the political/activist spectrum. I'm just too sick and tired of the vitriol that is spewed anywhere and everywhere about everything under the sun, it seems. I appreciate being educated that I've been putting my own definition on what "woke" means and I apologize if its caused offense to anyone.

I also was a strong supporter of Harry and Meghan, really, up until the first Oprah interview where the Harry that was presented there for all to see totally gobsmacked me upside the head and even now, I will keep a firm belief and a hope that what is affecting Harry right now is perhaps, like any disease that harms a human being, symptoms of an illness that leads to treatment and recovery. I also know that it's only Harry, himself, that really knows what is going on with him and can do something about it.

We're all just observers that are sitting watching the performance Harry is putting on right now. I don't find it a pleasant one at all. But that's just me.

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

According to Apple it has done very well.

https://deadline.com/2021/05/oprah-...e-me-you-cant-see-town-hall-apple-1234764211/

"The Me You Can't See has been the number one most watched program worldwide on AppleTV+ since its launch and that it drew 25% new viewers to the service and a more than 40% increase in average weekend viewership in the UK. "

Not surprised they want to do a follow up program.

Interesting that they’ve signed with Netflix and this is on Apple TV

Yes, I’m sure some folks joined just to see it and will then quit.

 

[TLLK]

HM gave her blessing in 2018 - so, well before there was anything for Harry to complain about.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...to=1490&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

I truly hope that this is just speculation by the DM or any other tabloid. I'd be truly shocked if Prince Harry had presented it as one theme and then the end result was something entirely different.

 

[Purrs]

Thanks much for the clarification on what the term "woke" means. I was not aware of that. In fact, I do not pay much attention to these kind of things (as a rule). Sure I try and keep up to date on current events but keep myself far removed from identifying myself with anything on the political/activist spectrum. I'm just too sick and tired of the vitriol that is spewed anywhere and everywhere about everything under the sun, it seems. I appreciate being educated that I've been putting my own definition on what "woke" means and I apologize if its caused offense to anyone.

You're welcome. Your usage didn't cause me offense because I realized you didn't mean it that way. It just that I noticed it was increasingly being used here and it's a very polarizing term. Like you, I'm very tired of the vitrol online.

I also was a strong supporter of Harry and Meghan, really, up until the first Oprah interview where the Harry that was presented there for all to see totally gobsmacked me upside the head and even now, I will keep a firm belief and a hope that what is affecting Harry right now is perhaps, like any disease that harms a human being, symptoms of an illness that leads to treatment and recovery. I also know that it's only Harry, himself, that really knows what is going on with him and can do something about it.

We're all just observers that are sitting watching the performance Harry is putting on right now. I don't find it a pleasant one at all. But that's just me.

I always find your posts insightful and I've found them enlightening. I agree with you and I hope Harry finds his way to better health and happiness.

 

[Queen Ester]

But is it so popular because of Prince Harry? Is not Lady Gaga in it? Would she not be a huge draw for audiences?

Definitely, and Glenn Close, they are both much more interesting to the American audience.

Yes, I’m sure some folks joined just to see it and will then quit.

That's unfair, there were Glenn Close and Lady Gaga, I was very impressed with their stories, I listened to Harry's for a few minutes, but it soo boring, he has zero charisma.

 

[Leopoldine]

Definitely, and Glenn Close, they are both much more interesting to the American audience.

i think that the American appetite for celebrity trauma may be shrinking.

We have been through a lot the past year and a half. We have always been self-determining and looking ahead, and we don't need an uneducated British prince to lecture us.

 

[Noble Consort Ming]

Eh. it probably didn't make much money.
If it had been a huge commercial success, my guess is that it would never have been taken down.

Do you mean that this particular level of the game wasn't a success or the entire Kardashian game app? Because the app has been a big success. It made almost 200 million dollars in its first two years.

 

[Sunnystar]

I don't know that I think it is necessarily unfair or incorrect to use the term "woke" with regard to Harry & Meghan. They did, after all, make their support for a specific US Presidential candidate known last fall, and both of them have attempted to bring race into the discussion about Archie's security & title, as well as Harry trying to draw a parallel between him marrying a biracial woman and Diana dating a Muslim man when she died. We here at TRF know better than to buy into that narrative but, IIRC, didn't Harry use the word "woke" or "awakened" in the first Oprah interview? If people want to toss it out there pejoratively against the couple, and especially Harry, they've certainly invited it onto themselves.

 

[Betsypaige]

I don’t care about using the word “woke” or not, but I don’t find Harry to be genuine. His words are unconvincing; to me they sound like the words of a man who has climbed aboard every bandwagon of every cause. This is how I see him now; it’s not who I saw him as before, say with Invictus.

I truly hope that this is just speculation by the DM or any other tabloid. I'd be truly shocked if Prince Harry had presented it as one theme and then the end result was something entirely different.

DM isn’t speculating - there are quotes from sources. In 2018, I’m sure H was sincere about how he presented it to HM and the family, but a lot has changed since that time and the time the show was produced. Clearly he did not give a heads up about his attacks - though, of course, why would he from his POV? Just like with the Megxit bombshell, he wanted to create shockwaves

 

[Alison H]

This isn't directly to do with Harry, but I think the word "woke" is now used pejoratively because people are concerned about culture wars/cancel culture. We've got people like Germaine Greer being banned from student unions just for expressing an opinion, we've got actors being sacked from jobs over one line comments they posted on social media 20 years ago, we've got Sharon Osbourne being accused of racism on American TV just for saying that she didn't think Piers Morgan was a racist, and so on and so forth. When a journalist - sorry, I forget who it was - made a negative comment about the Oprah interview, Omid Scobie wrote a nasty comment about "old white men writing about Meghan" - as if it were illegal for an old white male to open his mouth. I appreciate that the word was originally meant in a positive way, but I think this is what's changed.


Harry has made himself a part of this with some of his comments, such as suggesting that Diana was pursued by photographers because her companion was an Arab, when it's clear to everyone else that Diana would have been pursued if she'd been with any man, regardless of ethnicity.

 

[Lumutqueen]

No idea if it will maintain but the initial viewing numbers were stellar and that was the goal. Apple seems very pleased with their investment.

We will have to agree to disagree on the use of the word "stellar", the deadline article discusses averages in the UK over a period of a few short days where the platform was entirely free to new individuals, and any established viewership had already paid their fee.

Apple would be happy to maintain viewership generated from the show as that's where the money lies. It is also interesting to note that Apple TV is unavailable on Android devices, which currently make up a 72% share in the mobile phone market as opposed to the 26% that Apple does.

 

[Moran]

[.....]
[.....]


But Harry and Meghan want their accusations to be accepted at face value while being stoically silent about the bullying accusations against Meghan which go as early as 2018. In fact, Harry is doing his best to outpace every result of the investigation by crying out loudly that everyone envied Meghan because of her awesomeness and success in the exact critical time when the first unrest started stirring.


We haven't seen any of the "evidence" Janina loudly claimed Meghan has. Meghan and Harry were loudly denied any participation in the BP affairs, so they aren't bound to comply with silence during procedures. Why don't they present the evidence that these people who also claim they were victimized were lying at the time Meghan was at the peak of her royal popularity? IMO, because they don't have it and they want the matter sunk into oblivion. Not really in the values of real "woke" culture which rushes to believe every claim of someone been victimized.



To me, this is both an attempt to stay relevant and paint themselves as the victims before the result of the bullying investigation comes out. Because, while Meghan can't be persecuted, no matter the results, if she's a proven bully, that will further damage their kindness creds.

 

[Betsypaige]

[.....]



But Harry and Meghan want their accusations to be accepted at face value while being stoically silent about the bullying accusations against Meghan which go as early as 2018. In fact, Harry is doing his best to outpace every result of the investigation by crying out loudly that everyone envied Meghan because of her awesomeness and success in the exact critical time when the first unrest started stirring.


We haven't seen any of the "evidence" Janina loudly claimed Meghan has. Meghan and Harry were loudly denied any participation in the BP affairs, so they aren't bound to comply with silence during procedures. Why don't they present the evidence that these people who also claim they were victimized were lying at the time Meghan was at the peak of her royal popularity? IMO, because they don't have it and they want the matter sunk into oblivion. Not really in the values of real "woke" culture which rushes to believe every claim of someone been victimized.



To me, this is both an attempt to stay relevant and paint themselves as the victims before the result of the bullying investigation comes out. Because, while Meghan can't be persecuted, no matter the results, if she's a proven bully, that will further damage their kindness creds.

Agreed. Meghan made those accusations of racism against the BRF, and yet no one has demanded that she provide proof ? The outrage on Twitter was insane, which I suppose she counted on; people seemed to lose their mind.

In answer to your second and third points, I think H and M’s strategy has been to go on the attack, hoping that people will see them as victims and not as victimizers. The BRF can’t respond, much as they’d like to, and the Sussexes know this. However, I do think this is backfiring on them. I think people who are now sympathizing with BRF recognize that they can’t fight back and have been put in a terrible position.

 

[valeas]

Just watched it after I found out appleTV is free on my ipad.

Well, first if all I am surprised about how those four describe the US atmosphere considering depression. In Europe we are lectured that in the US meeting a therapist is part of daily life and as far as I can say for some places here the stigma is not that high compared to what Harry's new show tells for the states-confusing.
But well done: abuse, pain, racism,anirexia, trigger, rich people suffer aswell, a loving family is essential, talking about your problem means healing and before, between and at the end a man who wants to be only Harry saying not too much, because the three others spoke the important stuff for his royal highness. All the keywords match Harry&M's story, telling the world is healing-so who wants to point a finger at the suffering couple, they are only trying to break the vicious circle SO WHAT? clever, clever

Looks harmless as if the local support group broadcasted its last meeting,
- how dare anybody criticise this?

The fact that the pictures shown and the text Harry speaks do not match-how dare you...?
Harry speaking about "here" or the whole world-makes no sense at all, but- how.............?
Including DoC by showing him aswell in the videos suggesting he's the same problems-.....?
Lies like H's therapy (but nobody got me a doctor) - how dare you....?
Using the wird trauma repeatedly (serious professionals in this sector are very carefull with it) -how dare you....?

I do not know the US audience and can only guess some like this kind of soul striptease,
if they keep on including a VIP like Lady Gaga plus Oprah telling more childhood secrets
plus what's next from the Windsors this show might find some audience but doubt it will be a big thing.
If some are encouraged to speak out about their own troubles-fine.

Did the world wait for this show-NO.
Does the script perfectly match Harry's keywords since Megxit-YES-coincidence? NO-clever.

I did not like the show,
I worked with traumatised people and not one of them searched the limelight
if one does it is because of still unsolved issues and believing must help another-
does Harry do this to safe his father, brother....family, maybe all royals in the world?
Seriously what is his aim doing this? (making money allright, but whatelse?)
What is Harry's point at all-after this I understand him less than ever before.

 

[caethi]

We will have to agree to disagree on the use of the word "stellar", the deadline article discusses averages in the UK over a period of a few short days where the platform was entirely free to new individuals, and any established viewership had already paid their fee.

Apple would be happy to maintain viewership generated from the show as that's where the money lies. It is also interesting to note that Apple TV is unavailable on Android devices, which currently make up a 72% share in the mobile phone market as opposed to the 26% that Apple does.

It's pretty hard to ignore if you have Apple TV+, as the program is headlined on the landing page, with a picture featuring Harry and Oprah. Make no mistake, Harry is the draw here. I am not watching. As I have said before, Harry has the right to share his feelings, but he does not have the right to drag his family through the mud. Harry is getting very bad advice in my opinion.

 

[ladyjolene]

For people complaining that they want privacy, they will go on any show that will have them. They would have stayed more relevant if they stayed in the UK and as working royals. I don't think Meghan liked that she would always have to walk behind Kate. I wonder how long they will try to draw this out. There's only so long you can whinge about your family or make accusations before the audience will roll their eyes and move on.

 

[Sandy345]

Ummm that also claiming Harry spoke to Thomas Markle. We know that is far from truth. So I would take that whole article with a giant grain of nonsense.

They did announce this two years ago. That much is true.

According to various biographies I read, he did call Thomas Markle at the time of the proposal to Meghan. And they did send him airline tickets to go to the wedding. And after the media started photographing him for photo ops it was all downhill from there. I believe Harry and Meghan. Thomas Markle seemed to change from the time the media got to him.

 

[Durham]

Did he get paid for this documentary or is the fee going to mental health charities?

 

[Denville]

Did he get paid for this documentary or is the fee going to mental health charities?

What is he going to live on, if he doesn't get paid for things?