The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 3: March - April 2021

[UglyAmerican]

Neither Gayle nor Janina did any of those terrible things. It's one thing to dislike the couple for whatever reason but another thing to fictitiously make accusations against the couple's supporters in an effort to make Harry & Meghan look like villains!

Didn't Janina say one of them had been fired for "gross misconduct"? I remember wondering how she knew that, unless Meghan and Harry already know the names of those making the accusations. I know she said they were lying, and since it seems unlikely that she'd have observed the events at issue, I think we can safely conclude that she's just being Meghan's mouthpiece here. I don't know what sort of contracts they all had to sign, but if staff were required to sign an NDA that prevented them from publicly gossiping about or badmouthing their employers, I think it's only fair for the employers to be held to the same standards.

 

[Princess_Eleanor]

There's quite a few reasons to disbelieve it. First, Meghan either deliberately misrepresented or hugely misunderstood the legal effect of her pre-wedding exchange of vows with Harry. Second, even if the conversation about the baby's skin tone happened exactly the way Meghan said it did, it's still easy enough to verify that it wasn't the reason for decisions about titles and security, so that's another huge misrepresentation or misunderstanding on her part. Third, it's not even clear what Meghan is claiming happened. First she said that there were multiple conversations during her pregnancy, with the clear (and probably deliberate) implication that those multiple conversations were all between her and relatives commenting about the baby's skin tone. Later Harry, seemingly horrified that it had been brought up at all, said it was one comment made to him when they first started dating, that he later passed on to Meghan. The multiple conversations had been between Meghan and Harry, all regarding this one conversation Harry had with someone else 1-2 years previously - which is yet another huge misrepresentation on Meghan's part. Knowing all of that, it would be foolish to take anything she said at face value, especially regarding a conversation she only heard about secondhand.

Notwithstanding any questions about Meghan's honesty and accuracy, I think that context makes it even less likely that it was racist or at all offensive for one other reason. According to Meghan, Harry knew she was suicidal at that time. Are we supposed to believe that he thought it would be a good idea to tell his suicidal pregnant wife "Just FYI, my great aunt Duchess So-And-So told me two years ago that she'd never speak to me again if I had a brown baby"? Even if that conversation with Duchess So-And-So had happened, passing it on to Meghan at that point would only have needlessly upset her. Why on earth would he have done that? The only explanation that makes sense here is that Harry perceived the comment as innocent, and expected Meghan to see it the same way, and then she didn't. That doesn't mean she was wrong to feel differently about it, but it couldn't have been all that bad.

I still think that Harry actually did divulge the question, at least that's what it seems like to me.

Oprah: Like what will the baby look like?
Harry: Yeah, what will the kids look like. But that was right at the beginning when she wasn't gonna get security, when members of my family were suggesting that she carries on acting because there's not enough money to pay for her.

This also debunks Meghan's claim that she gave up her career for the Royal Family and that it was a big sacrifice. Apparently she wouldn't have had to.

 

[Alisa]

I know they haven't done that yet. But...

The issues should be discussed for what they are, not what you *think* or *hope* they will be. Neither Gayle nor Janina went on television "screaming from the top of their lungs" that the staff were "terrible employees"..etc.

Didn't Janina say one of them had been fired for "gross misconduct"? I remember wondering how she knew that, unless Meghan and Harry already know the names of those making the accusations. I know she said they were lying, and since it seems unlikely that she'd have observed the events at issue, I think we can safely conclude that she's just being Meghan's mouthpiece here. I don't know what sort of contracts they all had to sign, but if staff were required to sign an NDA that prevented them from publicly gossiping about or badmouthing their employers, I think it's only fair for the employers to be held to the same standards.

I definitely think that Janina is definitely Meghan's mouthpiece how else would she know about the emails and text messages that Meghan has "as evidence"? I agree about the NDA going both ways, but in the same breath there has been numerous leaked stories about Meghan's reportedly bullying of staff and causing them to leave over the last 2-3 years.
IIRC the story of the gross misconduct was supposedly of a nanny that was fired in the middle of the night.

 

[UglyAmerican]

I still think that Harry actually did divulge the question, at least that's what it seems like to me.

Oprah: Like what will the baby look like?
Harry: Yeah, what will the kids look like. But that was right at the beginning when she wasn't gonna get security, when members of my family were suggesting that she carries on acting because there's not enough money to pay for her.

This also debunks Meghan's claim that she gave up her career for the Royal Family and that it was a big sacrifice. Apparently she wouldn't have had to.

I wonder if that wasn't a tongue-in-cheek comment about her penchant for designer clothes and private jets. If it was a serious comment, it's interesting to think about how that could have worked. It sounds pretty close to the half-in, half-out arrangement they later decided they wanted.

 

[Kellydofc]

I’m willing to bet this is what it going to turn out to be. She wanted residential treatment but the mental professionals she saw did not think it was necessary

I am going to say based on having worked 2 years in the insurance industry, volunteering 3 years at a hospital and having been through many years of therapy myself as well as watching many others go through treatment for a variety of mental health issues mental health professionals ALWAYS prefer to treat people outpatient first. No matter how posh an inpatient facility is they are still deemed as more disruptive, aggressive and intrusive into a person's life.

Mental health professionals will of course send people to these facilities or recommend they go but honestly I have never heard of anyone recommending it as a first step because no matter what people think even the nicest most posh of these places are not vacations. They're usually places that plunge you really deeply into intensive therapy.

I've seen people I thought were in VERY bad shape told they didn't need to go into inpatient facilities and they would be MUCH better off seeking outpatient care. The thing is I think many people are in a bad place so they think the only way off the ledge is inpatient care without understanding what it really is forget the potential of press finding out if you happen to be famous.

Now we don't know what happened with Meghan but I still SERIOUSLY doubt anyone would have denied her care. I do completely believe someone would have told her no on the inpatient facility because that's what any reasonable mental healthcare professional would have done prior to assessing her.

 

[Moran]

I definitely think that Janina is definitely Meghan's mouthpiece how else would she know about the emails and text messages that Meghan has "as evidence"? I agree about the NDA going both ways, but in the same breath there has been numerous leaked stories about Meghan's reportedly bullying of staff and causing them to leave over the last 2-3 years.
IIRC the story of the gross misconduct was supposedly of a nanny that was fired in the middle of the night.

A nanny isn't a member of the palace staff, as far as I know. And anyway, if I get it right, the story in the Times is about the people Jason Knauf wrote the supposed leaked email about in the late 2018. At the time, Meghan was still newly pregnant, so no nanny. Unless I misremember.


A NDA should go both ways. And a leak that is supposed to be from the palace staff is just that - a leak from an unnamed palace staff, if not an outright tabloid fabrication. It's another cup of beer when a friend authorized to speak by the employer's side waves a "gross misconduct" claim around. In the first case, someone might have been indiscreet. In the second, Meghan *definitely* was.


It isn't an understandable indiscretion either. She wasn't quietly warning a friend who might have been willing to hire her ex-employee without knowing that she was about to hire someone untrustworthy. It was just unethical and Janina made it clear for the world, even if it wasn't illegal. When people don't have the right to talk about you, you shouldn't be talking about them, period.

 

[Hallo girl]

The issues should be discussed for what they are, not what you *think* or *hope* they will be. Neither Gayle nor Janina went on television "screaming from the top of their lungs" that the staff were "terrible employees"..etc.

Janine did go on television and say that a member of staff had been sacked for misconduct. She also said Meghan had proof.

 

[Queen Ester]

I am going to say based on having worked 2 years in the insurance industry, volunteering 3 years at a hospital and having been through many years of therapy myself as well as watching many others go through treatment for a variety of mental health issues mental health professionals ALWAYS prefer to treat people outpatient first. No matter how posh an inpatient facility is they are still deemed as more disruptive, aggressive and intrusive into a person's life.

Mental health professionals will of course send people to these facilities or recommend they go but honestly I have never heard of anyone recommending it as a first step because no matter what people think even the nicest most posh of these places are not vacations. They're usually places that plunge you really deeply into intensive therapy.

I've seen people I thought were in VERY bad shape told they didn't need to go into inpatient facilities and they would be MUCH better off seeking outpatient care. The thing is I think many people are in a bad place so they think the only way off the ledge is inpatient care without understanding what it really is forget the potential of press finding out if you happen to be famous.

Now we don't know what happened with Meghan but I still SERIOUSLY doubt anyone would have denied her care. I do completely believe someone would have told her no on the inpatient facility because that's what any reasonable mental healthcare professional would have done prior to assessing her.

I have a feeling that Meghan wanted to go to plush spa in the States, and was told no, because security would be impossible and very expensive

 

[poppy7]

I am going to say based on having worked 2 years in the insurance industry, volunteering 3 years at a hospital and having been through many years of therapy myself as well as watching many others go through treatment for a variety of mental health issues mental health professionals ALWAYS prefer to treat people outpatient first. No matter how posh an inpatient facility is they are still deemed as more disruptive, aggressive and intrusive into a person's life.

Mental health professionals will of course send people to these facilities or recommend they go but honestly I have never heard of anyone recommending it as a first step because no matter what people think even the nicest most posh of these places are not vacations. They're usually places that plunge you really deeply into intensive therapy.

I've seen people I thought were in VERY bad shape told they didn't need to go into inpatient facilities and they would be MUCH better off seeking outpatient care. The thing is I think many people are in a bad place so they think the only way off the ledge is inpatient care without understanding what it really is forget the potential of press finding out if you happen to be famous.

Now we don't know what happened with Meghan but I still SERIOUSLY doubt anyone would have denied her care. I do completely believe someone would have told her no on the inpatient facility because that's what any reasonable mental healthcare professional would have done prior to assessing her.

She was probably looking for one of those American style rehab/detox places. The type Kit Harington went to post Game of Thrones. Ut they are private and self referring.

 

[Osipi]

I have a feeling that Meghan wanted to go to plush spa in the States, and was told no, because security would be impossible and very expensive

Someone responding in this vein of security and the logistics of going to an inpatient facility whether posh or run of the mill, wasn't speaking from a mental health care professional viewpoint. If Meghan had related that she was refused as advised by a qualified mental health care professional, the reasons wouldn't be logistics or locale or security but in relation to how a professional accessed her clear and present danger to herself and others.

I'd still like to know if she had then or ever actually has talked to a mental health professional or did she "self heal" by removing herself from the perceived threats to her well being which actually is just a band aid for a deeper rooted problem. I don't think it's intrusive to wonder about her mental state of mind then and now as she was the one the put it into blaring headlines herself. Once again, we're fed something that is never followed up on or clarified with contextual information.

 

[poppy7]

I am going to say based on having worked 2 years in the insurance industry, volunteering 3 years at a hospital and having been through many years of therapy myself as well as watching many others go through treatment for a variety of mental health issues mental health professionals ALWAYS prefer to treat people outpatient first. No matter how posh an inpatient facility is they are still deemed as more disruptive, aggressive and intrusive into a person's life.

Mental health professionals will of course send people to these facilities or recommend they go but honestly I have never heard of anyone recommending it as a first step because no matter what people think even the nicest most posh of these places are not vacations. They're usually places that plunge you really deeply into intensive therapy.

I've seen people I thought were in VERY bad shape told they didn't need to go into inpatient facilities and they would be MUCH better off seeking outpatient care. The thing is I think many people are in a bad place so they think the only way off the ledge is inpatient care without understanding what it really is forget the potential of press finding out if you happen to be famous.

Now we don't know what happened with Meghan but I still SERIOUSLY doubt anyone would have denied her care. I do completely believe someone would have told her no on the inpatient facility because that's what any reasonable mental healthcare professional would have done prior to assessing her.

Of course they do. In all cases mental health should be equivalent to physical health and the admission to hospital on parity. I don't believe she wanted to be admitted. I think she wanted some serious detox. Which they may have said no too.

And I quite agree. Where was her husband in This? Why did he not seek support after finding her crying a number of times. Whole thing is odd.

 

[Heavs]

The issues should be discussed for what they are, not what you *think* or *hope* they will be. Neither Gayle nor Janina went on television "screaming from the top of their lungs" that the staff were "terrible employees"..etc.

My original phrase was "screaming that they're liars" not "lungs". But I accept that was a little hyperbolic of me. However I don't think it's out of order to express the opinion that Gayle, Janina or Meghan herself might take what are supposed to be confidential reports during an investigation and attempt to hold a trial by media considering that:

A) Meghan has already demanded to see the accusations and already claimed everyone is a stooge or liar. (even pre interview).

B) Two friends that weren't even there have called the staff involved liars and

C) insinuated that it's just sour grapes for being fired over being a terrible employee.

D) Harry and Meghan via Gayle are perfectly willing to give very unhelpful updates on private conversations and claim 100% victimisation on the subject "no one wants to talk to Meghan" "the media are focusing on the wrong thing!".

I haven't called out any of their friends and supporters by name that haven't *already* shown themselves willing to fuel this fire.

This isn't something I hope will happen. I hope the investigation is carried out confidentially and a proper way to deal with a bullying royal is identified and put in place for the future and I really hope that Sussex drama settles down. I don't have high hopes though.

 

[poppy7]

Someone responding in this vein of security and the logistics of going to an inpatient facility whether posh or run of the mill, wasn't speaking from a mental health care professional viewpoint. If Meghan had related that she was refused as advised by a qualified mental health care professional, the reasons wouldn't be logistics or locale or security but in relation to how a professional accessed her clear and present danger to herself and others.

I'd still like to know if she had then or ever actually has talked to a mental health professional or did she "self heal" by removing herself from the perceived threats to her well being which actually is just a band aid for a deeper rooted problem. I don't think it's intrusive to wonder about her mental state of mind then and now as she was the one the put it into blaring headlines herself. Once again, we're fed something that is never followed up on or clarified with contextual information.

I completely agree with the band. The appropriate thing for Meghan would be to see her GP and/or self refer for talking therapy. Let them assess the present need. All of which she could have done herself, or a friend could have made the appointment. Or Harry.

 

[camelot23ca]

I've been waiting to hear from Meghan and Harry how they're going to sue the latest people besmirching her reputation - Jason Knauf and the rest of the people accusing her of bullying. She knows at leas two names - Knauf's and the woman she gossiped with Janina about, telling her that she had had her fired for gross misconduct.


This far, there's only been silence. No running commentary from Gayle on this, alas.

Meghan’s not the subject of the investigation, but it’s her alleged behaviour that provoked the complaints and Jason Knauf’s letter, so I think the investigators will want the employees and staff to open up about any major incidents, (not just the ones mentioned in the letter). They can’t make reasonable recommendations to BP for going forward without knowing how things got so bad to start with.

I don’t know anything about employment law in the UK, but I would think one of the things they’ll want to figure out is whether the behaviours constituted bullying, abuse or harassment. Was the workplace actually unsafe? Or was it “just” kind of an unpleasant place to work?

My understanding is that Buckingham Palace won’t be commenting on the investigation but the final report will be public. If a well respected law firm submits a report indicating that BP didn’t act appropriately to support their employees in the face of extensive verbal abuse and bullying on the part of The Duchess of Sussex, well, that will be a problem for Buckingham Palace, sure, but it will be a disaster for Meghan and Harry. They’ll still have a handful of hard core fans and there will be those, especially in the US, who are ideologically incapable of believing a biracial woman can be a bully, but serious organizations and individuals will have to distance themselves. That has major social and financial ramifications for The Sussexes.

Meghan felt comfortable bad mouthing The Royal Family to Omid Scobie and to Oprah because she knows TRF can’t fight back, scobie is a joke and Oprah wasn’t going to seriously challenge her version of events. She was fine suing the MoS because she could plausibly play the victim whether she won or lost. This investigation is on an entirely different level and I think the best indication of how serious it is is that Meghan and Harry aren’t talking.

 

[poppy7]

They’ll still have a handful of hard core fans and there will be those, especially in the US, who are ideologically incapable of believing a biracial woman can be a bully.

As opposed to anyone else? She is as likely as any other human to be one.

 

[Alisa]

And I quite agree. Where was her husband in This? Why did he not seek support after finding her crying a number of times. Whole thing is odd.

She said he saved her. So he was very much present in all of that. It is a shame though that we didn't get the specifics of how exactly she crawled out from that 'dark place'

 

[Moran]

Meghan felt comfortable bad mouthing The Royal Family to Omid Scobie and to Oprah because she knows TRF can’t fight back, scobie is a joke and Oprah wasn’t going to seriously challenge her version of events. She was fine suing the MoS because she could plausibly play the victim whether she won or lost. This investigation is on an entirely different level and I think the best indication of how serious it is is that Meghan and Harry aren’t talking.

Thank you. That's exactly what I meant and you said it better than I could have.

 

[poppy7]

She said he saved her. So he was very much present in all of that. It is a shame though that we didn't get the specifics of how exactly she crawled out from that 'dark place'

Why go to HR to ask for help...why not ask him. It is the most bizarre thing ever.

 

[Princess_Eleanor]

I wonder if that wasn't a tongue-in-cheek comment about her penchant for designer clothes and private jets. If it was a serious comment, it's interesting to think about how that could have worked. It sounds pretty close to the half-in, half-out arrangement they later decided they wanted.

Good point! Watching the video, it seems as though Harry took the comment very seriously and was offended by the idea. But that definitely doesn't mean that it was meant that way, that's true.

Harry presents it in the sense of "They didn't want to spend ANY money in order for her to be a working royal."
But you're right, it makes a lot more sense that they thought "We didn't envision spending quite as much money on having Harry and Meghan as working royals. That's more of a Diana than a Sarah wardrobe and the numerous private flights are bad PR & also quite pricey."

 

[Alisa]

[-][/-]

Why go to HR to ask for help...why not ask him. It is the most bizarre thing ever.

That's where the specifics would come im? Did he reach out to one of the mental health charities to get help for her ? Was it Diana's friend that got her the help? Did she get admitted to a hospital? I wish Oprah would have delved deeper and asked. It would've helped the narrative of using herself as an example of getting help at whatever cost. I suppose time wouldn't allow for all the answers.

 

[ladongas]

She said he saved her. So he was very much present in all of that. It is a shame though that we didn't get the specifics of how exactly she crawled out from that 'dark place'

The very last thing I would want to hear are those sorts of private details.

 

[Osipi]

Good point! Watching the video, it seems as though Harry took the comment very seriously and was offended by the idea. But that definitely doesn't mean that it was meant that way, that's true.

Harry presents it in the sense of "They didn't want to spend ANY money in order for her to be a working royal."
But you're right, it makes a lot more sense that they thought "We didn't envision spending quite as much money on having Harry and Meghan as working royals. That's more of a Diana than a Sarah wardrobe and the numerous private flights are bad PR & also quite pricey."

I was under the impression that the suggestion that she kept working as there wasn't money to "fund" her pertained to the period before they married as in if Meghan gave up her home, her job, her career to come and live with Harry in the UK as his fiancee. Of course as Harry's *wife*, she'd be entitled to security and funding as the wife of a senior working royal for the "Firm".

Maybe I've read this all wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. ?

 

[poppy7]

Good point! Watching the video, it seems as though Harry took the comment very seriously and was offended by the idea. But that definitely doesn't mean that it was meant that way, that's true.

Harry presents it in the sense of "They didn't want to spend ANY money in order for her to be a working royal."
But you're right, it makes a lot more sense that they thought "We didn't envision spending quite as much money on having Harry and Meghan as working royals. That's more of a Diana than a Sarah wardrobe and the numerous private flights are bad PR & also quite pricey."

I happen to think she should have been left to keep her job. Or expand a career in the arts in the UK. She worked for her career. She didn't need to be a working royal. Harry could have done his work on his own and Meghan would have been able to go to family events. I mean the men did. Marrying the heir now is a given job but I see no reason what the other partners cannot keep their careers.

I think she thought she was Lady Godiva.

The arts is an apolitical career and would be fine for her and if she didn't want to act she could have devoted herself to public theatre and broadcasting in the UK work then working with private charities on the side.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

I was under the impression that the suggestion that she kept working as there wasn't money to "fund" her pertained to the period before they married as in if Meghan gave up her home, her job, her career to come and live with Harry in the UK as his fiancee. Of course as Harry's *wife*, she'd be entitled to security and funding as the wife of a senior working royal for the "Firm".

Maybe I've read this all wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. ?

I could be wrong as well, but I think that the comment (if made) was in response to Harry demanding that Charles give him and Meghan as much as he gave William and Catherine. I don't follow royal finances but IIRC, when Harry and Meghan left Kensington Palace, there was talk that William fought for Harry getting as much money as he did.

 

[Princess_Eleanor]

I was under the impression that the suggestion that she kept working as there wasn't money to "fund" her pertained to the period before they married as in if Meghan gave up her home, her job, her career to come and live with Harry in the UK as his fiancee. Of course as Harry's *wife*, she'd be entitled to security and funding as the wife of a senior working royal for the "Firm".

Maybe I've read this all wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. ?

No, I think you might be right. All of this is quite hard to decipher. Harry presented this as the first sign that Meghan was basically unwelcome. If this only pertained to the period of time during which they weren't yet engaged, it's only normal. I can't think of a royal family that provides money and security to the partner of a royal family member while not married or at least engaged.

 

[Moran]

I happen to think she should have been left to keep her job. Or expand a career in the arts in the UK. She worked for her career. She didn't need to be a working royal. Harry could have done his work on his own and Meghan would have been able to go to family events. I mean the men did. Marrying the heir now is a given job but I see no reason what the other partners cannot keep their careers.

I think she thought she was Lady Godiva.

She should have been left to keep her job, in theory, but in practice, the very character of the job would have brought headlines like "Prince Harry's wife preferred to the seasoned actress... insert name." Unfair but inevitable, due to the character of the job. Still, with Meghan being so adamant about keeping her voice, her American PR firm and so on, I can't see her as being forced into abandoning her profession. What would the RF had done, forbidden Harry from marrying her?


For some reason, she chose to stop working and she had a buyer's remorse. She wouldn't be the first one. I suppose she just underestimated the sheer boredom and predictability of the job.

 

[Hallo girl]

Thank you. That's exactly what I meant and you said it better than I could have.

When there were stories coming out pre them leaving about Meghans treatment of staff her fans defended her by saying the palace staff were lazy
Couldn't take a Biracial woman telling them what to do. They didn't know the staff in question but they knew they were lazy.

 

[poppy7]

She should have been left to keep her job, in theory, but in practice, the very character of the job would have brought headlines like "Prince Harry's wife preferred to the seasoned actress... insert name." Unfair but inevitable, due to the character of the job. Still, with Meghan being so adamant about keeping her voice, her American PR firm and so on, I can't see her as being forced into abandoning her profession. What would the RF had done, forbidden Harry from marrying her?


For some reason, she chose to stop working and she had a buyer's remorse. She wouldn't be the first one. I suppose she just underestimated the sheer boredom and predictability of the job.

She could have stopped acting and gone to working with public theatre in the UK for example. But It was her who was desperate to give up her career and get out giving her worthy speeches.

 

[Heavs]

I happen to think she should have been left to keep her job. Or expand a career in the arts in the UK. She worked for her career. She didn't need to be a working royal. Harry could have done his work on his own and Meghan would have been able to go to family events. I mean the men did. Marrying the heir now is a given job but I see no reason what the other partners cannot keep their careers.

I think she thought she was Lady Godiva.

The arts is an apolitical career and would be fine for her and if she didn't want to act she could have devoted herself to public theatre and broadcasting in the UK work then working with private charities on the side.

I think that for Louis things may have changed by that time and his theoretical future wife might work.

The arts is theoretically neutral but what happens if Meghan had been offered a part in Roadkill, "House of Cards" or "Trial of Christine Keeler" or even something like "The Bodyguard" all good dramas but with varying degrees of politics. Rightly or wrongly she'd be accused of trying to politicise the BRF. She (or anyone else in her position) would soon be complaining that BP was stopping her career and others would be complaining that she only got roles because of who she is.

If she had worked in an art gallery like Eugenie that may have been possible but as an actor, I think it's more difficult. Lets not forget how easy it was for Sophie to screw up in PR. I think Sophie Winkleman would find it much harder if she was even married in at the Bea/Eugenie level.

However it doesn't seem like either she or Harry wanted her to keep on acting, they seemed offended at the suggestion that she wouldn't be a fulltime royal. Even if she worked in a charity theatre for kids she might end up thinking it was dull after a while compared to before or what she could be doing. I do think she was attracted to what she thought was going to be the job: Basically what they want to be now, a celebrity philanthropist with a massive platform. I mean that as an addition to Harry inself, before anyone jumps on that.

 

[Osipi]

She could have stopped acting and gone to working with public theatre in the UK for example. But It was her who was desperate to give up her career and get out giving her worthy speeches.

A good example of this is Queen Margrethe of Denmark that stays active in the theater behind the scenes very happily but it never interferes with her "day job" at all. ?