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  #1541  
Old 03-21-2021, 03:47 PM
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Meghan and Harry made their bed now they have to sleep in it. I hope they can look at themself's in the mirror. As I said Oprah's show was not bad as long as the audience was the focus. Now it is only her and no one else and Money! This are two hours of my life I can not get back again. If this was revenge it sure will bite them in the butt someday. How can Harry sit and hurt his family especially the Queen this way? no concern for his Grandfather either. Dear mom Diana would be spitting mad I think.
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  #1542  
Old 03-21-2021, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by acdc1 View Post
They were apparently offered a "time out" period not once, but twice. A source told The Sun that before their wedding the Queen offered to let them live without the Duke and Duchess of Sussex title and to let Meghan carry on acting and have a slower transition to royal life, but that Meghan turned her down because she was happy to stop acting and jump right in to being a full-time working royal (as she told us all during the engagement interview). After Archie's birth when it was apparent that they were unhappy with a lot of aspects of the role and their lives, the Queen also is said to have offered to create a new type of position for them in South Africa, which is a place that is very special to them. It would allow them to spend a few years away from the British tabloid press and continuing to do royal work but in a different capacity that may be a better fit, but again they turned her down.
I've heard this numerous times, especially the offer pre-wedding. I think things would have been much different if they had done that and taken everything so much slower first. It worked for W&K, and Edward and Sophie. I heard there was even talk of getting Samantha Cohen onboard with moving at least some of the time to South Africa with them. Its sad because I do truly believe they could have moved to California and come back for occasional royal duties, ironically Covid lockdown has shown they could work just as well from afar in a lot of ways.
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  #1543  
Old 03-21-2021, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Durham View Post
Those figures are shocking. To think that six in ten Canadians actually believe that the RF were racist towards MM.

What's truly awful is that nearly every single one of the million or so black Canadians believe that the RF treated MM unfairly because of her race.

Mr & Mrs Windsor have done a great amount of damage to the reputation of the RF all round the world. And Oprah Winfrey has given them the stage on which to spread their lies about race & titles. And to smear the entire family.
As a Canadian, I find the poll surprising and a bit dubious, like a previous poster mentioned. There was no love lost when they left Canada for California and for many it was definitely good riddance. I wouldn’t say Global TV isn’t without its biases either. My perception here is that the interview didn’t suddenly change people’s minds but rather reinforce existing opinions.
  #1544  
Old 03-21-2021, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by AriadneA View Post
As a Canadian, I find the poll surprising and a bit dubious, like a previous poster mentioned. There was no love lost when they left Canada for California and for many it was definitely good riddance. I wouldn’t say Global TV isn’t without its biases either. My perception here is that the interview didn’t suddenly change people’s minds but rather reinforce existing opinions.
A perspective from Ontario is very welcome.

What existing opinions were reinforced?
  #1545  
Old 03-21-2021, 04:14 PM
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Things would always have been different that William and Kate because of very different circumstances.

However they could have taken things slower and more carefully if they had wanted and let Meghan find her footing in a culture that is "separated by a common language" along with the alienness of "The Institution" and trying for and having a baby all in a couple of years.

They were even offered various solutions to "jump off" once they found it was too much for them. Living in SA or possibly somewhere like Canada or NZ for a few years in relatively privacy was floated among other things.

They took the 6 month break and there were eyebrows raised but they did it and if they had come back with a "we misjudged this we need to be half in half out" for a while for mental health reasons" WITHOUT wanting to commercialise Sussex Royal, something might have been worked out. Or even if they had wanted to bury themselves in the country somewhere and do 2 days work a month for a while. But that's not what they actually wanted either then or now.

Meghan herself seemed to be the one very gung ho about jumping in in the engagement interview and at least made it sound like she had thought it through. She embarked on solo projects like "Together" very quickly and both clearly wanted to make an immediate impact. From FF and The Interview it seems like they chafed and got upset every time they were told "no" or that their vision didn't fit with everyone else's in the company and that they weren't the CEO anyway.

So they went from "we're going to be be the trailblazers and modernisers and global leaders and the best thing about this place!" to "We're leaving, this place is terrible and you all don't even realise it, screw you forever!" With apparently very little in between and very little time to give themselves room to breath.

It seems like even 2020 and a year by themselves with their little boy and everything that happened didn't really give them perspective on things.
  #1546  
Old 03-21-2021, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Durham View Post
A perspective from Ontario is very welcome.

What existing opinions were reinforced?
Canadians were very angry at the suggestion that taxpayers fund the Sussexes security. Naturally made headlines.
To be honest, aside from Quebec, Canadians continue to have great respect for the Queen. Obviously our history is different to the U.S, but with that I’ve noticed differences in opinion. That’s not to say Canadians in 2021 would still prefer a constitutional monarchy over a republic, but the relationship history with the BRF has always been good. I suspect - in general - that the U.S support comes from the fact not only do they not have this commonwealth past that we do but that MM is also one of their own.
  #1547  
Old 03-21-2021, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
I've heard this numerous times, especially the offer pre-wedding. I think things would have been much different if they had done that and taken everything so much slower first. It worked for W&K, and Edward and Sophie. I heard there was even talk of getting Samantha Cohen onboard with moving at least some of the time to South Africa with them. Its sad because I do truly believe they could have moved to California and come back for occasional royal duties, ironically Covid lockdown has shown they could work just as well from afar in a lot of ways.
I dont see how they could have done that. Perhaps the queen could have allowed them to be part time but leading a totally PRIVATE life during their "off" times..but I can't see how they could have been living in the US (Long way away) and working to make money, or getting involved in politics as they have been doing. I suspect the queen was willing to give them a few years where they could be part timers, leading a quiet private life, having their family and perhaps living in Africa.. off the radar.. but I am sure that was not what they wanted.. and that the queen certainly would not have agreed to the sort of "half time royals" role that they envisaged. And I'm sure that the queen (if she did consider this before the marriage) was thinking of a part time set up as a temporary thing for a few years, such as Will and K had for the first years of their marriage...
Im sure it was never envisaged that Harry and Meg could just give up on royal life.. unless they make ti clear from Day 1 that they didn't want to be working royals, that they wanted out of the RF to lead a life like Bea and Eugenie.. and not undertake any big royal role.
  #1548  
Old 03-21-2021, 04:46 PM
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Well Canada is welcome to them- and they can pay for them as well.
  #1549  
Old 03-21-2021, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I dont see how they could have done that. Perhaps the queen could have allowed them to be part time but leading a totally PRIVATE life during their "off" times..but I can't see how they could have been living in the US (Long way away) and working to make money, or getting involved in politics as they have been doing. I suspect the queen was willing to give them a few years where they could be part timers, leading a quiet private life, having their family and perhaps living in Africa.. off the radar.. but I am sure that was not what they wanted.. and that the queen certainly would not have agreed to the sort of "half time royals" role that they envisaged. And I'm sure that the queen (if she did consider this before the marriage) was thinking of a part time set up as a temporary thing for a few years, such as Will and K had for the first years of their marriage...

Im sure it was never envisaged that Harry and Meg could just give up on royal life.. unless they make ti clear from Day 1 that they didn't want to be working royals, that they wanted out of the RF to lead a life like Bea and Eugenie.. and not undertake any big royal role.
I agree. It would probably have become a reality if Harry and Meghan opted to be part time and spent the majority of their time living somewhere, like in Africa, privately and quietly. and establish their family. Perhaps Harry could have pursued working with conservationists. That would have been similar to the Cambridges time away with William in the RAF and then EAAA. There'd be no conflict of interest.

The half out which turned out to be a very public, very commercial idea naturally conflicted with the "Firm" and its methods of operation. It would have looked like they were establishing a "firm" within the "Firm". One way to describe it, for me, would be Michael Jackson soaring to international fame as a solo artist yet still remaining part and parcel of the Jackson 5 and the family. That doesn't work with a monarchy.

With being impetuous and not willing to take the time to talk things over and negotiate and work things through clearly, Harry and Meghan end up on their own with *no* connection to the "Firm" nor really to the family and have seen the "Firm" and the family move on steadily through a pandemic without a second thought to wishing they had Harry and Meghan back again (so it probably seemed to them), the Sussexes are left with the the decisions they've made and if things were looking bright and rosy and a clear path ahead to success, I don't think we'd have seen that interview as it was. This is what tells me I don't think they're overjoyed with the way things have turned out.
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  #1550  
Old 03-21-2021, 05:02 PM
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Didn't they say at one point that they thought they could be like the Kents and Gloucesters? They've said so many things that I forget what's what! But it's hard to imagine that. The Kents and Gloucesters do a lot of hard work, most of which is with unglamorous organisations (apart from the All England Club!) and goes under the radar, and then live quietly out of the public eye for the rest of the time.
  #1551  
Old 03-21-2021, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
Didn't they say at one point that they thought they could be like the Kents and Gloucesters? They've said so many things that I forget what's what! But it's hard to imagine that. The Kents and Gloucesters do a lot of hard work, most of which is with unglamorous organisations (apart from the All England Club!) and goes under the radar, and then live quietly out of the public eye for the rest of the time.
I dont know. What they've said, as you say there is a dizzying lot of stuff been said lately. But the Kents and Gloucesters lead a fairly private life but they are on the duty roster and they get the dull jobs...I'm sure that's not what H and Meg wanted.
I just can't imagine that the queen and Charles really would imagine that Har and Meg would want out of the royal role. It was always intended that Harry would be a full time royal once he'd done a stint with the army, and I am sure it was always expected that his wife would share his duties. If they had honestly gone to the queen before their marriage... and said "Look we hate the idea of royal duties, we just want to be private people", Im sure the queen would have been upset and bemused and thought "why don't they want to pull their weight and work for the firm" esp as C only has 2 sons. but I think she would have been flexible and said "OK if you REALLY hate the idea, you can just stay as Harry and Meghan, Prince and Princess Harry, lead a quiet life, do a bit of charity work and perhaps manage an estate.. - but I suspect they didn't like the idea of having no ducal title, no glamourous tours (when it suited them to do them) and perhaps not get a bigger house like Frogmore.. because they weren't working royals...
  #1552  
Old 03-21-2021, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
Didn't they say at one point that they thought they could be like the Kents and Gloucesters? They've said so many things that I forget what's what! But it's hard to imagine that. The Kents and Gloucesters do a lot of hard work, most of which is with unglamorous organisations (apart from the All England Club!) and goes under the radar, and then live quietly out of the public eye for the rest of the time.
I seem to recall something like that but I can't remember the context. Was it something to do with Prince Michael of Kent's work and "lending a hand when necessary" royal duties? And the Duchess of Kent has been involved in many of her own non royal projects/jobs over the years.

But that's really only something they could get to once the Little Cambridges had grown up and taken over the spotlight. When she was younger for example Princess Alexandra was one of the most popular and visible of her generation.

They also said themselves and people like Scobie also said that they didn't want to see themselves condemned to the boring stuff and slipping further and further down the ranks. Which is what some of the fuss about Archie's title and Harry's apparent indignation that there was a suggestion that Meghan be allowed/encouraged to keep working once upon a time.

They wanted the titles, best jobs and perks, also wanted the "privacy" to so what they wanted or to come and go AND wanted a global platform for progressive causes. None of that seems very compatible with each other.
  #1553  
Old 03-21-2021, 05:19 PM
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I never placed much trust in the South Africa story. It's one thing living quietly in the UK and raising your family and quite another - living in a foreign state. What official part would have Harry have - General Governor? I can imagine just how well *this* would have been received. And the security costs would have hit the roof. I remember there was some security noise during their South Africa trip. I can't recall the details but anyway, there would have been much money involved in arranging their security, much more than in the UK.


But this is a secondary matter. I just can't imagine a British prince and his wife basically using South Africa as a learning ground. Colonial past, using other nations' resources, anyone? IMO, it never would have washed.
  #1554  
Old 03-21-2021, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Moran View Post
I never placed much trust in the South Africa story. It's one thing living quietly in the UK and raising your family and quite another - living in a foreign state. What official part would have Harry have - General Governor? I can imagine just how well *this* would have been received. And the security costs would have hit the roof. I remember there was some security noise during their South Africa trip. I can't recall the details but anyway, there would have been much money involved in arranging their security, much more than in the UK.


But this is a secondary matter. I just can't imagine a British prince and his wife basically using South Africa as a learning ground. Colonial past, using other nations' resources, anyone? IMO, it never would have washed.
I remember saying this a while ago, that I coudlnt' see them being allowed (if they were Commonwealth Prince and Princess) to favor one part of the CW by living there.. Even if they led a very quiet life and didn't have any job, I still think it would have looked odd to have a working Prince living abroad for a longish period of time. But perhaps if they were kicking up, as Im sure they were, the Queen DID consider letting them take a sabbatical in S Africa for a year or 2.. because she was worried about them.. but when they looked into it the security costs were so high that they were told it was impossible.
  #1555  
Old 03-21-2021, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I remember saying this a while ago, that I coudlnt' see them being allowed (if they were Commonwealth Prince and Princess) to favor one part of the CW by living there.. Even if they led a very quiet life and didn't have any job, I still think it would have looked odd to have a working Prince living abroad for a longish period of time. But perhaps if they were kicking up, as Im sure they were, the Queen DID consider letting them take a sabbatical in S Africa for a year or 2.. because she was worried about them.. but when they looked into it the security costs were so high that they were told it was impossible.
This makes sense. I'd only add that Meghan and Harry might not have been thrilled by a long sabbatical in South Africa. It's one thing to go there and do exciting things for a few weeks or even a few months. A tour would be in the same vein. But they aspired to a Hollywood lifestyle - would they really get it *living* in South Africa? I think they'd rather have taken the very suggestion as a devious way to stick them into the boredom, so they wouldn't take the shine off the rest of the royals with their imcomparable ways with people and skill with the job... If a S Africa suggestion was made, it could have actually made things *worse*.
  #1556  
Old 03-21-2021, 05:30 PM
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A great deal of what the Queen is supposed to have offered the couple and discussed with them before marriage and during the early, comes from unnamed ‘sources’ quoted in the Sun and other tabloids. It’s seemingly treated here and presented as if it’s straight from the horses’ mouth and the truth.

Apart from a vague thought that maybe the Sussexes could go to SA, which Harry briefly discussed with Tom Brady when on tour there, we don’t know that anything the Queen supposedly discussed with them is accurate, unless we are to take the Sun, Fail and Express etc as bastions of truth in all things.


As I have said, I believe that SA was put up as a solution as Harry himself briefly mentioned it, and Sam Cohen was apparently willing to join the couple. However, I remember reading later, in a broadsheet, that the logistics of the move came to be regarded as unworkable as there would have been difficulties over security in both the larger cities and in the bush and the cost again would have been horrendous.


Harry and Meghan would still have been regarded as working royals while there and therefore the Home Office would have had to come up with many RPOs who would have to be prepared to live and work in SA. Also, presumably local authorities there would have been liable for some of the cost and manpower. So it was rejected after due consultation and deliberation, rightly in my opinion.
  #1557  
Old 03-21-2021, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
They wanted the titles, best jobs and perks, also wanted the "privacy" to so what they wanted or to come and go AND wanted a global platform for progressive causes. None of that seems very compatible with each other.
For a long while they got the best jobs and all the perks. One look in the Sussexes' calendar will tell you that there's a lot of galas and receptions and awards there - and not a lot of the low-key engagements, where they would just meet someone and talk with people.

It's been also rumored that all the tours were to the destinations of Sussexes' liking - basically, they went where they wanted to go.

They wanted to be "ambassadors" for the Commonwealth, so they got support and suitable positions. There's a severe lack of the "boring" jobs (I do not consider them boring at all), like opening hospitals or supporting local businesses.

But I guess that was not enough for them...
  #1558  
Old 03-21-2021, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I remember saying this a while ago, that I coudlnt' see them being allowed (if they were Commonwealth Prince and Princess) to favor one part of the CW by living there.. Even if they led a very quiet life and didn't have any job, I still think it would have looked odd to have a working Prince living abroad for a longish period of time. But perhaps if they were kicking up, as Im sure they were, the Queen DID consider letting them take a sabbatical in S Africa for a year or 2.. because she was worried about them.. but when they looked into it the security costs were so high that they were told it was impossible.
Interesting. So they were told that security was a major factor when deciding where to live. One argument for the royal family in the UK is that it brings in tourist. Even if Harry and Meghan planned to take on high profile engagements on behalf of the Canadian government (and there was no reason to believe that was a possibility), it should not have been a surprise that the Canadian citizens didn't want to fund Harry and Meghan's security since their presence would benefit Canada's economy.
  #1559  
Old 03-21-2021, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Durham View Post
Those figures are shocking. To think that six in ten Canadians actually believe that the RF were racist towards MM.

What's truly awful is that nearly every single one of the million or so black Canadians believe that the RF treated MM unfairly because of her race.

Mr & Mrs Windsor have done a great amount of damage to the reputation of the RF all round the world. And Oprah Winfrey has given them the stage on which to spread their lies about race & titles. And to smear the entire family.
The BRF isn’t routinely in the news here; Harry and Meghan, on the other hand, have had more and largely positive coverage since Canada has access to pretty much every American media outlet. I would say that, except for the short lived concern when it seemed we were going to wind up paying for their security, The Sussexes have been on the radar of the average Canadian in the same way they have been for the average American - as celebrities getting largely positive, (and vapid), coverage in entertainment media.

Keeping the above in mind, I think if you take a poll immediately after such a high profile interview - one in which two people were given total freedom to say whatever they liked, where even obvious inaccuracies not only weren’t challenged, but encouraged, and in which someone is allowed to say “they didn’t give my son a title because of his skin colour” and it’s treated as gospel - then of course most people are going to say “yes” when asked if that person was treated unfairly because of her skin colour!
  #1560  
Old 03-21-2021, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Moran View Post
This makes sense. I'd only add that Meghan and Harry might not have been thrilled by a long sabbatical in South Africa. It's one thing to go there and do exciting things for a few weeks or even a few months. A tour would be in the same vein. But they aspired to a Hollywood lifestyle - would they really get it *living* in South Africa? I think they'd rather have taken the very suggestion as a devious way to stick them into the boredom, so they wouldn't take the shine off the rest of the royals with their imcomparable ways with people and skill with the job... If a S Africa suggestion was made, it could have actually made things *worse*.
Possibly behind the scenes there was a lot of turmoil because they were "so unhappy" and saying that they didn't want to continue as full time working royals. I am increasingly sure that they never wanted to do the job, unless they could take long periods off duty to make money.. and live in the USA or nearby.. and probably royal/charity work would become less and less and time off would become more and more. So a suggestion that they take a year and go to Africa and lead a quiet life would probably not have been really what they wanted so they continued to complain and try to work out a way they could get out of the commitment to duty. Luckily Im sure once they looked into security issues it was obvious that it could not be worked out, and Harry could say that he had wanted it but he couldn't do it without being sure he and his family would be safe...
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