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  #1061  
Old 03-17-2021, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladongas View Post
Despite the highly favorable notices for the Sussex Africa tour, Meghan’s unhappiness was palpable- and she’s said she didn’t want to go on living.
Harry must have been distraught. So he went to Charles, who said, put it in writing. And his grandmother was too busy to see him.
I can understand why you feel that Harry's family was dismissive, but I don't agree that there is something wrong with asking Harry to put his proposal in writing. Harry was suggesting something that the royal family had never done before. There were a lot of details to be thought through, such as the cost of security, where they were going to live, how they were going to achieve financial independence, which charities they would support, when they would be back in the UK, etc.

Many people find it helpful to sit down and actually write something out. I don't know but I suspect Charles was trying to get Harry to think through what he wanted and how he could achieve it. Harry wasn't a child, he was 35, so it is not unreasonable to expect Harry to take responsibility for planning his next steps. As we now know, there was no plan - they admitted that.

Most 35 year old people can manage their own lives without the help their parents or grandparents. I relied on my family for support during difficult times, but my husband and I made our decisions, set our own goals and figured out how to attain them. Sometimes we failed, but that is life.

I think Charles, the Queen, and William were very supportive of Meghan and Harry taking time off from their royal duties. Their patronages were not removed until they decided not to return. The royal family didn't think that the half-in, half-out proposal would work and it is obvious that Harry and Meghan put little thought into it - that is why putting it in writing was so difficult for them.
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  #1062  
Old 03-17-2021, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Princess_Eleanor View Post
Nobody can help you with mental illness unless you also want to help yourself. Therapy is not the kind of treatment where the therapist can just "heal" you, as a doctor can for most physical ailments. But therapy is rather a lot of work, requires a lot of self examination, much of which is incredibly uncomfortable, and can also only be successful if the person moves away from blaming others and towards taking action on their own behalf.

I'm not sure what you expect Charles to do in the current situation. To fly to California despite covid restrictions, bring a large check and agree to all of Harry and Meghan's demands? Is that supposed to heal them?
In fairness, therapy may have been part of it but perhaps antidepressants could have helped.
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  #1063  
Old 03-17-2021, 09:38 PM
Aristocracy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladongas View Post
Despite the highly favorable notices for the Sussex Africa tour, Meghan’s unhappiness was palpable- and she’s said she didn’t want to go on living.
Harry must have been distraught. So he went to Charles, who said, put it in writing. And his grandmother was too busy to see him.

Harry must have felt miserably ignored by his family. Perhaps they did have deeper worries and grievances than just the vile stories in the tabloids. But because of their position, the Firm expected stiffer upper lips than they were able to muster. When you are ill, you can’t always find ways to help yourself, and I say this about both Harry and Meghan.

Something was really wrong, and they were given the brush off by the people who should have cared. Anyone who has ever been around a person with mental illness knows you don’t just ignore threats of self harm, even if the person suffering is a member of the BRF.

Those who have had a suicide in their family or in their close circle, never get over thinking, What could I have done? Why didn’t I do something?

Thank G-d, nothing has happened, but I think that the Firm should feel someway other than offended and aggrieved. I think they should feel worried. And they should do everything they can to help.
All we know is that Meghan said she wanted to go somewhere for residential treatment, and was told that wasn't a good option. Without knowing more about what other options were available, and whether she and Harry chose to take advantage of any of them, I don't think it's fair to characterize that as 'giving her the brush-off.' Harry said he didn't share that with any of his relatives, but then Meghan says they all knew (somehow), so it's not clear who knew what.

But even supposing Charles did know all about Meghan's issues, I don't see how that makes anything he did unreasonable. He and the Queen allowed them to appoint themselves as official delegates to Canada (sorry, I forget the proper term), allowed them to travel there officially and take up residence, then allowed them to hole up in the middle of nowhere on vacation for several months while their bills were still being paid as though they were working. (If they just wanted to hide from the media while occasionally getting some fresh air, they could have done that at any number of family-owned properties in the UK at a much lower cost to taxpayers.) We don't know how long that might have been allowed to continue had they not tried to force the Palace's hand by publicly announcing a "deal" that the Palace hadn't agreed to. It looks to me like Charles and the Queen were really trying to find something that would work for Harry and Meghan, but H&M's public announcement left them no choice but to start issuing ultimatums.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ladongas View Post
If I were Charles, I would stop being quite so busy. I would hop on a private jet and get myself to California. He’s man enough to withstand any public criticism.
Why should Charles do that? He has a more-than-full-time job, while Harry's done basically nothing for the past year, and will probably be doing nothing for the foreseeable future. He's 72 and shouldn't be traveling during a pandemic, while Harry is 36 and at much lower risk. His father, Harry's grandfather, has been hospitalized in the UK for the past month and was only released yesterday - just because Harry doesn't care about that doesn't mean Charles shouldn't. No matter how important Harry and Meghan might think they are, their public tantrum isn't a national emergency that would justify Charles dropping all of that so he can... what? Hold Harry's hand while he cries about how being told to pay for his own mansion hurt his feelings? There's nothing to stop Harry from flying to see Charles if he wants to.
  #1064  
Old 03-17-2021, 09:47 PM
Aristocracy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
In fairness, therapy may have been part of it but perhaps antidepressants could have helped.

Yes, that's true. I didn't mean that medication can't be a part of the healing process along with therapy, but rather that it's unfair to expect another person (apparently Charles in this case) to solve all issues for them (by acquiescing to everything they say will make them happy, I suppose).

I'm sure Charles would have helped them in a way appropriate for a father & father-in-law, by helping them find a therapist or doctor to prescribe medication, had he known. He did help them by allowing them time off in Canada. He also continued to provide financial support at that point.

I just don't like this idea that Charles should give them more & more money, the titles, status and anything else they desire.
a) He just really doesn't need to do that.

And b) I can't see how that would truly improve their mental health. They got away from the BRF as they wished, they're living in their place of choice in a lovely house, they have got lucrative business deals, a child & another on the way, yet they still don't seem happy. So I don't think that more money from Charles & titles for the children etc would make them so. It's a deeper problem and I still think that unless they are willing to to develop self-awareness and take responsibility for things themselves, it will not change.
  #1065  
Old 03-17-2021, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by texankitcat View Post
Actually it was for them to choose. They were presented with a few choices and they chose Sussex.
Do you have a source on this? My understanding that it was the Queen who decided. She could've chosen from Kendal, Clarence...etc or created a whole knew Dukedom entirely and she chose Sussex.
  #1066  
Old 03-17-2021, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texankitcat View Post
We donít know what really happened since we are only getting Meghan and Harryís version which considering how many times Meghan outright lied and Harry contradicted himself (and her) they are by no means a truthful reliable source. I donít believe or trust anything these two or their mouthpieces say.
Beyond all that, if Meghan was clinically depressed, and it was severe enough that she didnít want to be alive, then I wouldnít consider her version of events in that time period to be especially reliable. Iíve been close to people who have lived through the sort of episode Meghan described, and have thankfully recovered, but when they were at their worst I wouldnít have confidently said they could remember the day of the week, let alone remember the details about more complicated social interactions, or say with any accuracy what motivations various people had. They didnít want to be around people. Everyone thought they were worthless, people were out to get them, no one could possibly understand what they felt like, things were never going to get better... Even now that theyíve both been doing well for a long time, hearing them talk about those times in their lives is disconcerting. With one friend in particular itís upsetting because there are chunks of time, and major conversations and events, that they donít really remember, and their perspective about various things that happened is still kind of skewed. And this is a successful, thoughtful person who under normal circumstances is probably the most academically and emotionally intelligent person I know.

And, even under very bad circumstances and as a very close friend, you canít make someone get help. You canít shove their medication down their throat. You canít sit next to them in the therapistís office and force them to talk. If Harry and her own mother werenít successful in getting Meghan to seek help Iím not sure what the in-laws who had known her for a year or two and who probably saw her once every couple of weeks were supposed to do.
  #1067  
Old 03-17-2021, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UglyAmerican View Post
All we know is that Meghan said she wanted to go somewhere for residential treatment, and was told that wasn't a good option. Without knowing more about what other options were available, and whether she and Harry chose to take advantage of any of them, I don't think it's fair to characterize that as 'giving her the brush-off.' Harry said he didn't share that with any of his relatives, but then Meghan says they all knew (somehow), so it's not clear who knew what.
I am of the philosophy that whatever the means in which person who is struggling with their mental health believes will help them on improving their mental health should be the priority. If Meghan believed that a residential treatment option was the best for her, then that should have not been denied. Telling someone "No, that option is not available to you", although they have the means for it to happen is so so so wrong. It is not like they couldn't make that happen.
  #1068  
Old 03-17-2021, 11:54 PM
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Of course the royal family wouldn't have given Meghan the "brush-off" regarding mental health - it didn't hesitate to arrange for Diana to see a psychiatrist for an extended length of time when she was having difficulties adjusting to her new role after she married in 1981 so why would they refuse Meghan, especially at a time where these problems are far more accepted? Residential treatment is a different matter though and surely whether that was necessary or not would be decided by the treating doctor, not Meghan.
  #1069  
Old 03-18-2021, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderick View Post
Of course the royal family wouldn't have given Meghan the "brush-off" regarding mental health - it didn't hesitate to arrange for Diana to see a psychiatrist for an extended length of time when she was having difficulties adjusting to her new role after she married in 1981 so why would they refuse Meghan, especially at a time where these problems are far more accepted? Residential treatment is a different matter though and surely whether that was necessary or not would be decided by the treating doctor, not Meghan.
Iím willing to bet this is what it going to turn out to be. She wanted residential treatment but the mental professionals she saw did not think it was necessary
  #1070  
Old 03-18-2021, 12:13 AM
Aristocracy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownPrincessJava View Post
I am of the philosophy that whatever the means in which person who is struggling with their mental health believes will help them on improving their mental health should be the priority. If Meghan believed that a residential treatment option was the best for her, then that should have not been denied. Telling someone "No, that option is not available to you", although they have the means for it to happen is so so so wrong. It is not like they couldn't make that happen.
I don't think that's necessarily true. According to Meghan, the main problem was the negative press. The press learning of her mental issues would surely have made that problem worse, and there would have been no way to prevent that at an inpatient facility. They could certainly have made it happen, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't have caused more harm than good. And that's probably what she was told - I don't see how anyone could actually have stopped her.
  #1071  
Old 03-18-2021, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
In fairness, therapy may have been part of it but perhaps antidepressants could have helped.
Yes, Lexapro, helped me a lot, I feel like a new person, I was very depressed during last year, lost my job, had to move in with my mother(turned out to be a good thing for both of us) but I could not see a way forward, Lexapro really helped. I can see a way through the tunnel now.
  #1072  
Old 03-18-2021, 02:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladongas View Post
Despite the highly favorable notices for the Sussex Africa tour, Meghan’s unhappiness was palpable- and she’s said she didn’t want to go on living.
Harry must have been distraught. So he went to Charles, who said, put it in writing. And his grandmother was too busy to see him.

Harry must have felt miserably ignored by his family. Perhaps they did have deeper worries and grievances than just the vile stories in the tabloids. But because of their position, the Firm expected stiffer upper lips than they were able to muster. When you are ill, you can’t always find ways to help yourself, and I say this about both Harry and Meghan.

Something was really wrong, and they were given the brush off by the people who should have cared. Anyone who has ever been around a person with mental illness knows you don’t just ignore threats of self harm, even if the person suffering is a member of the BRF.

Those who have had a suicide in their family or in their close circle, never get over thinking, What could I have done? Why didn’t I do something?

Thank G-d, nothing has happened, but I think that the Firm should feel someway other than offended and aggrieved. I think they should feel worried. And they should do everything they can to help.

If I were Charles, I would stop being quite so busy. I would hop on a private jet and get myself to California. He’s man enough to withstand any public criticism.
Under current UK travel advice, you need to have legal permitted reason (after filling the Travel declaration form) to travel abroad (except for Ireland). After the outrage (even from the Home Secretary) on celebrities/influencers travelling internationally instead of "staying at home" and his visit to Prince Philip in private hospital, I don't think Charles is taking the risk of demonstrating "One rule for them, one rule for us". I don't think his Travel Declaration form would be even be approved

Quote:
Under current UK COVID-19 restrictions, you must stay at home (or in Wales, stay local). It is illegal to travel abroad for holidays. Check the rules in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

Do not travel unless you have a legally permitted reason to do so. In England, you must complete a declaration form for international travel (except for travel to Ireland).
https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice

I don't think visiting Harry & Meghan fits any of these exemptions nor would provide good evidence to do so, even in Medical or compassionate grounds.
Quote:
Work
Essential travel for business or official work purposes where it is not reasonably possible to complete that work from home.

This includes but is not limited to essential work or returning overseas having completed essential work, in relation to critical national infrastructure including the national rail network, national security or diplomatic purposes, and elite sports competitions.

Recommended evidence: employer’s letter, professional ID card, confirmation from sports body or evidence of participation, diplomatic mission letter, etc.
Quote:
Medical or compassionate grounds
This includes:
  • to visit someone who is dying or critically ill
  • maternity services, or to be with someone who is giving birth, or with a baby receiving neonatal critical care
  • medical treatment or emergency which cannot be reasonably received in the UK or to accompany a person where necessary
  • to avoid injury or illness or escape risk of harm (such as domestic abuse)
Recommended evidence: medical evidence describing the situation of the member of your household/close family member/a friend who is receiving treatment in hospital or whose condition is life-threatening, proof of scheduled treatment, death certificate, letter from social services, proof of hospital admission, proof of family relationship.
Quote:
Other permitted reasons
There are further reasonable excuses, for example:
  • to fulfil legal obligations
  • to carry out activities related to buying, selling, letting or renting a residential property
  • travel in order to exercise custody rights recognised by a court decision
  • order to present oneself to a judicial or administrative authority
Recommended evidence: proof of contract, court decision and proof of place of residence, order to present oneself to a judicial or administrative authority, expiring residence permit, dismissal notice, etc.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavi...mitted-reasons
  #1073  
Old 03-18-2021, 04:04 AM
Serene Highness
 
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It is hardly difficult to find a doctor in the UK. Medical help is available 24/7. Hospitals provide emergency psych services. I wouldn't particularly expect to see a senior member of the Royal Family going to their local A&E and waiting in the queue, but presumably the Royal Family's own doctors can make arrangements. You can't make someone go for treatment, but that's not the fault of other family members. Why would Harry need Prince Charles or the Queen to help him find a doctor? He's not a teenager.


That's another question that Oprah didn't ask! If things were so bad, why didn't Harry just pick up the phone and ring a doctor?
  #1074  
Old 03-18-2021, 04:19 AM
Serene Highness
 
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The big problems with the metal health issue seem to be that

A) HR weren't helpful but they couldn't help because she wasn't an employee and we don't know what they recommended she do

B) The particular residential facility she wanted to go to was deemed unsuitable.

C) Harry was too embarrassed to talk to his family and ask for help or suggestions there.

Meghan could have contacted her OBGYN who is trained to spot mental health problems or her GP but she hasn't clarified that she eventually did. There are any number of ways she and Harry could have gotten help if they had asked the right people. Or compromised on going to a facility somewhere (and we don't know if this was a serious clinic or more like a spa type place) and had intense therapy at home.

Even at this point she doesn't appear to have liked or trusted some of the family members so even if the family knew (and it's not like they spent a lot of time together BTS) it's unlikely they could convince her to get the right, effective help if her own mother and husband couldn't.

I do feel sorry for both of them that they went through a really dark, frightening time but from the info they've provided I'm not ready to blame Charles, William, their staffs etc. Because that's sure as hell something I don't think we got the full story on.

I guess we wait for the emails to in the next few days/weeks....
  #1075  
Old 03-18-2021, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
The big problems with the metal health issue seem to be that

A
Meghan could have contacted her OBGYN who is trained to spot mental health problems or her GP but she hasn't clarified that she eventually did. There are any number of ways she and Harry could have gotten help if they had asked the right people. Or compromised on going to a facility somewhere (and we don't know if this was a serious clinic or more like a spa type place) and had intense therapy at home.

Even at this point she doesn't appear to have liked or trusted some of the family members so even if the family knew (and it's not like they spent a lot of time together BTS) it's unlikely they could convince her to get the right, effective help if her own mother and husband couldn't.

I do feel sorry for both of them that they went through a really dark, frightening time but from the info they've provided I'm not ready to blame Charles, William, their staffs etc. Because that's sure as hell something I don't think we got the full story on.

I guess we wait for the emails to in the next few days/weeks....
why did she need help from teh family or HR??? Surely she was seeing doctors regularly and could have talked to them about her depression....
  #1076  
Old 03-18-2021, 07:28 AM
Serene Highness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
why did she need help from teh family or HR??? Surely she was seeing doctors regularly and could have talked to them about her depression....
There are royal doctors, top men in their individual fields. Do we ever hear any leaks regarding health.

You will have seen the press around hospitals when royal babies are born or when Philip was in hospital.

The security around a facility would attract attention, which would then attract the press.
Is that fair on Meghan or other clients, is it possible rather than downright no, somebody was pointing out the difficulties and as yet we do not know if suggestions were put forward as an alternative.
  #1077  
Old 03-18-2021, 07:58 AM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallo girl View Post
There are royal doctors, top men in their individual fields. Do we ever hear any leaks regarding health.

You will have seen the press around hospitals when royal babies are born or when Philip was in hospital.

The security around a facility would attract attention, which would then attract the press.
Is that fair on Meghan or other clients, is it possible rather than downright no, somebody was pointing out the difficulties and as yet we do not know if suggestions were put forward as an alternative.
I think if she wanted to go to a hospital, esp one in the US, there might be a case for saying that it was difficult, it would be very hard not to attract press attention if it came out that the Duchess was at some mental health clinic. but she could see a psychiatrist on a private visit every day, if she wanted. She could have a mental health nurse living in, keeping her company and keeping an eye on her.. she has options that aren't available to most people with mental or physical illness. The RF got psychiatrics help for Diana, in the ealry days of her marriage, when she was ill and not able to cope and that was a long time ago. I can't believe that her medical team and the Palace woudl refuse help to Meghan..
  #1078  
Old 03-18-2021, 08:17 AM
Serene Highness
 
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It's all "Meghan's truth". Take what she said about having to "turn in" her passport. 20 years ago, I was still living with my parents. Our passports were kept in a safe so that they wouldn't get mislaid and so that it'd be difficult for them to be stolen in case of a break-in. My dad had the key. So, yes, my passport was locked away from me. But it wasn't like that. Any time I wanted it, I just had to ask. It was locked away purely for safekeeping. I strongly suspect that that's what happened with Meghan's passport. But she made it sound as if it was taken off her so that she could be kept a virtual prisoner.
  #1079  
Old 03-18-2021, 08:19 AM
Majesty
 
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Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
It's all "Meghan's truth". Take what she said about having to "turn in" her passport. 20 years ago, I was still living with my parents. Our passports were kept in a safe so that they wouldn't get mislaid and so that it'd be difficult for them to be stolen in case of a break-in. My dad had the key. So, yes, my passport was locked away from me. But it wasn't like that. Any time I wanted it, I just had to ask. It was locked away purely for safekeeping. I strongly suspect that that's what happened with Meghan's passport. But she made it sound as if it was taken off her so that she could be kept a virtual prisoner.
I know. teh worrying thing is thoug that because Oprah basicaly did not ask any questions and agreed wiht everything Meg and H said, a lot of Americans wont understand how many false statements there were, and some Brits too.
  #1080  
Old 03-18-2021, 08:51 AM
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I have no idea how everyone in the RF knew (per Meghan), yet Harry didn't tell them because he was ashamed (per Harry; presumably Meghan didn't tell them either). How were they supposed to know? She has really cast them in the part of the all-knowing Ursula.


I can well imagine what would have happened if the HR she went to (who wasn't authorized to deal with the health issues of the RF members) had actually tried to find her help (exceeding their rights). We would have had a full-blown, "My privacy was invaded! The men in grey are spreading gossip (and lies) about me!). That's the mode Meghan seems to be operating from. Holding things over people's heads. I mean, that's the woman who whinged that her passport was kept away from her? She moaned about it with a straight face, too. Did she crawl into Harry's trunks for all those journeys and private jets? She failed to specify.


And before someone jumps on me for not being understading to the poor suicidal woman: I have a close family member with mental issues. Before she deteriorated sharply, she was extremely smart, witty and charming. And still, even then it would have been a crime to let her dictate the terms of her treatment. Indulging her ideas would have done her more bad than good. So I'm immune to "the person in question knows best what treatment is best for them" reasoning. And I wholeheartedly agree that you cannot force someone into therapy requiring much introspection. I sympathize with Meghan for her issues but not her accusations of being misunderstood and misused.
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