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  #981  
Old 03-17-2021, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by ruaudladoube View Post
At best, Harry failed Meghan in not preparing her for what she was getting into. At worst, he has straight up gaslighted her, IMO.

I don't think Harry is smart enough to gaslight anyone. I think he is the one that has been systematically manipulated into removing himself from his family and friends over the past few years.

If [...][Meghan} only has a relationship with her mother and no one else on either side of her family, including her mother's , and then her husband ends up being estranged from everyone except her and their children, that speaks volumes to me.
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  #982  
Old 03-17-2021, 11:36 AM
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I'm starting to wonder if we haven't been looking at the Archie's style and title matter from the wrong angle. Could it be not that his parents threw a hissy fit and declared, "If he can't be a HRH right away, he's going to be a plain old Master" but that they have been planning all along to escape to a glorious life in which they wouldn't fade in George, Charlotte and Louis' shadows in some 15 years at most? Not using Archie's title gives them the nice leverage of not reminding the world that he has one. This way, he can be the poor child victimized for his skin tone.
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  #983  
Old 03-17-2021, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Moran View Post
I'm starting to wonder if we haven't been looking at the Archie's style and title matter from the wrong angle.....
There was something mentioned at the time of his birth, that they didn't like the Dumbarton title because it had "Dumb" in it. They didn't want Archie to be known by that.
  #984  
Old 03-17-2021, 11:55 AM
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That makes sense to me. Kids can be cruel and no name really can escape being turned into something else. Why give them ammunition to start with? Wonder if they could have chosen Archie to use the courtesy title of Baron Kilkeel? That's also part of Harry's title. Camilla chose to be styled as Duchess of Cornwall rather than Princess of Wales as they're both Charles' titles.
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  #985  
Old 03-17-2021, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by tihkon2 View Post
There was something mentioned at the time of his birth, that they didn't like the Dumbarton title because it had "Dumb" in it. They didn't want Archie to be known by that.
Which in itself, I've never bought. The Queen isn't strict about this sort of thing at all, and there are undoubtedly plenty of ungranted earldoms that don't make easy teasing material. Either M&H didn't care at the time, did care but not enough about their potential future son at the time, or were always planning to use this as "hard done by" material, considering how they cling to the Sussex ones.... but I don't believe for one minute an EARLDOM they liked was denied them.
  #986  
Old 03-17-2021, 12:08 PM
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That makes sense to me. Kids can be cruel and no name really can escape being turned into something else. Why give them ammunition to start with? Wonder if they could have chosen Archie to use the courtesy title of Baron Kilkeel? That's also part of Harry's title. Camilla chose to be styled as Duchess of Cornwall rather than Princess of Wales as they're both Charles' titles.
As far as I know (and I don't pretend to be expert on pronunciation), Kilkeel contains both "kill" and "keel" (like in "keel over"). If Harry and Meghan were so sensitive, they wouldn't want their son to be known under this either.


Which begs the question why they didn't raise their objections when these titles were bestowed upon Harry.
  #987  
Old 03-17-2021, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Moran View Post
As far as I know (and I don't pretend to be expert on pronunciation), Kilkeel contains both "kill" and "keel" (like in "keel over"). If Harry and Meghan were so sensitive, they wouldn't want their son to be known under this either.


Which begs the question why they didn't raise their objections when these titles were bestowed upon Harry.
Yes' you'd think that harry might gently point out to the queen that his eldest son would be known as the Earl of whereever, and that Dumbarton was a name that could be made into a joke...
  #988  
Old 03-17-2021, 12:17 PM
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Still, no matter what a child's name is, they'll find something silly to make out of it. My daughter is a Maria. Rhymes with something we take Pepto Bismol for here in the States.
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  #989  
Old 03-17-2021, 12:22 PM
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Still, no matter what a child's name is, they'll find something silly to make out of it. My daughter is a Maria. Rhymes with something we take Pepto Bismol for here in the States.
I know but i would guess that that was their reason (if there was any logical one) for not calling Archie teh Earl of Dumbarton. Or maybe it was just a hissy fit because they had expected him to be made a prince.?
i can understand not wanting him called Dumbo.. but I think that the queen would not understand rude nicknames.. But If H had explained it to her before she bestowed the title, she wuold have picked another Scottish title.
  #990  
Old 03-17-2021, 12:24 PM
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Still, no matter what a child's name is, they'll find something silly to make out of it.
So they themselves have titles they are bound and determined by which to identify, but they couldn't find or get one they liked for their son?

Something doesn't add up, and a lot of it appears to be the "refusing to play by the normal rules" shtick. It's certainly not the "wanting him to be an ordinary kid" narrative we were first given.
  #991  
Old 03-17-2021, 12:26 PM
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Yes' you'd think that harry might gently point out to the queen that his eldest son would be known as the Earl of whereever, and that Dumbarton was a name that could be made into a joke...
Perhaps he was afraid that those people who were really in charge (as opposed to the Queen) and controlled her wouldn't be understanding.

That's another detail of the interview that didn't get nearly enough attention. I would have been mortified to announce on TV that my (currently 88 year old) grandmother is a puppet in someone else's hands and basically lost a big chunk of her faculties. And my grandmother isn't a monarch. It's such a breach of loyalty that I can't even.

Funny how The Queen was totally in charge of the situation when she talked to him all the year after her handlers stopped her from meeting Harry. When he needed to fall back on her authority, it was all there. When she didn't want to see him, it was because she has lost her grip and other (evil) people had a grasp of her.

Frankly, at this stage I wondered why he wouldn't announce a holy crusade to free her. He settled for condescending on his father and brother instead.


Well, no. I'm not wondering. At the moment, if he stands against The Queen who enjoys universal respect, he's doomed to lose. And he enhances his royalty through flashing his closeness with her and Prince Philip.
  #992  
Old 03-17-2021, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
So they themselves have titles they are bound and determined by which to identify, but they couldn't find or get one they liked for their son?

Something doesn't add up, and a lot of it appears to be the "refusing to play by the normal rules" shtick. It's certainly not the "wanting him to be an ordinary kid" narrative we were first given.
its hard to know what is going on in their heads. I think that they were in a huff because he wasn't Prince Archie of Sussex and maybe they were like "Ok so he 's not a prince.. and we are' think of legging it to the US anyway, so lets just call him plain Archie...that will sound good..."
Possibly a few months before A was born, they were told that he wouldn't be a prince, that the queen wans't going to issue letters patent.. and they got narky, and that was when they decided to tell the press that they wouldn't be showing him off or telling where he was born, or who ihis godparents were etc etc.. They were annoyed iwth the Palace and the queen but attacked the Press....
  #993  
Old 03-17-2021, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Queen Ester View Post
They are behaving like kids in a sandbox, counting their weapons, and deciding which ones to use now or later
Along with keeping it going until they can get what they want, there's also the element of that "aHa!" moment when it sinks in that this modus operandi not only garners them attention to keep "relevant" but also could be a source of raking in the green dollars they're going to need. Perhaps, though, only as a last resort I'd hope.

Reminds me of the 70s movie title "Suppose They Gave A War And Nobody Came". With one side refusing to engage, the antagonists will soon be seen to be boring the public like a vinyl record with the needle stuck in a groove with a lot of eye rolling and "here we go again.... " It'd also be conductive to having people ignore anything else they may want to promote because they've heard enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I know but i would guess that that was their reason (if there was any logical one) for not calling Archie teh Earl of Dumbarton. Or maybe it was just a hissy fit because they had expected him to be made a prince.?
i can understand not wanting him called Dumbo.. but I think that the queen would not understand rude nicknames.. But If H had explained it to her before she bestowed the title, she wuold have picked another Scottish title.
Thought ran through my head that if Archie had inherited the nickname "Dumbo", it'd be a relief to Charles as, IIRC, he's been frequently dubbed with that nickname because of his ears.
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  #994  
Old 03-17-2021, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Moran View Post
Per
Welln, no. I'm not wondering. At the moment, if he stands against The Queen who enjoys universal respect, he's doomed to lose. And he enhances his royalty through flashing his closeness with her and Prince Philip.
It is amusing that the Corden interview gave a picture of them chatting to the queen and Philip and her giving Archie a waffle iron (he's a bit small for it?) and everything being hunky dory.. and then in this interview, they were cruelly treated by the RF, people made racist remarks, kept Meg locked up, wouldn't get her mental health help, Charles wouldn't give them money or take H's phone calls etc etc etc etc....
  #995  
Old 03-17-2021, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ruaudladoube View Post
This is something I've been thinking since the interview aired.

I feel like Harry has wanted out of the royal life for some time and that his wife (I don't think it's specifically Meghan, whoever he married, it would have been the same) was his ticket. He just had to make sure that she and the Family didn't get along - and with Meghan, the race issue just made it that much easier to drive a wedge between them.

At best, Harry failed Meghan in not preparing her for what she was getting into. At worst, he has straight up gaslighted her, IMO.
I don't think that Harry is that smart to hatch out a long term plan like this on his own so either he had advisers or its just another conspiracy theory
  #996  
Old 03-17-2021, 12:45 PM
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Well, no. I'm not wondering. At the moment, if he stands against The Queen who enjoys universal respect, he's doomed to lose.
They're smart enough to know that they can't criticize the Queen. That is why Meghan mentioned the call to the Queen when Philip was hospitalized. Coupled with the great waffle iron revelation, they are trying to send the message that the Queen is very sympathetic to Harry and Meghan. The only thing that is stopping her from giving Harry and Meghan their rightful due is her advisors (along with Charles and William).
  #997  
Old 03-17-2021, 12:45 PM
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I don't think that Harry is that smart to hatch out a long term plan like this on his own so either he had advisers or its just another conspiracy theory
Things have just bee so illogical from the get go of the public announcement of January, 2020 through the interview that I can't believe there was any kind of real strategy behind any of it. One foot tripped up and went into a rabbit hole and over time, the entire body disappeared into it. That rabbit hole has gotten quite deep by now.
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  #998  
Old 03-17-2021, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Moran View Post
Perhaps he was afraid that those people who were really in charge (as opposed to the Queen) and controlled her wouldn't be understanding.

That's another detail of the interview that didn't get nearly enough attention. I would have been mortified to announce on TV that my (currently 88 year old) grandmother is a puppet in someone else's hands and basically lost a big chunk of her faculties. And my grandmother isn't a monarch. It's such a breach of loyalty that I can't even.

Funny how The Queen was totally in charge of the situation when she talked to him all the year after her handlers stopped her from meeting Harry. When he needed to fall back on her authority, it was all there. When she didn't want to see him, it was because she has lost her grip and other (evil) people had a grasp of her.

Frankly, at this stage I wondered why he wouldn't announce a holy crusade to free her. He settled for condescending on his father and brother instead.


Well, no. I'm not wondering. At the moment, if he stands against The Queen who enjoys universal respect, he's doomed to lose. And he enhances his royalty through flashing his closeness with her and Prince Philip.
I think that was the rationalisation of a grandchild who may not see much more of a beloved grandmother. If he ever sees her at all. And I think it may be unlikely he ever sees Philip. Easier to put it on the powers that be instead ofnh9s grandmother.

Very sad.
  #999  
Old 03-17-2021, 12:55 PM
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If they didn't like Dumbarton or Kilkeel then they could have just used Lord Archie and said "so that he doesn't have a different title to his potential future sibling" as the reason.

There are plenty of names in the BRF that used as a nasty nickname, I've heard various for Wales, York, and Kent. There have been throughout history (there are tonnes for Saxe Coburg and Gotha). I remember people worrying that giving them Sussex would make the press start on about SusSEX but that never happened.

Since it's now clear they both cared a hell of a lot about titles my best guess is that they thought they could change the Queen's mind possibly partly using the race argument "it will look great if you do and look like you're racist if you don't" - (I wonder if Meghan has some out of context emails about that) and because Harry was one of her favourites and when nothing came of it they threw their toys out of the pram and said "nothing then! And we're not doing the photo call at the hospital either!" As well as deciding "Dumbarton" has too much potential for cruel kids and adults.
  #1000  
Old 03-17-2021, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
They're smart enough to know that they can't criticize the Queen. That is why Meghan mentioned the call to the Queen when Philip was hospitalized. Coupled with the great waffle iron revelation, they are trying to send the message that the Queen is very sympathetic to Harry and Meghan. The only thing that is stopping her from giving Harry and Meghan their rightful due is her advisors (along with Charles and William).
I get this but the bit about HM being prevented to see Harry was so over the top. It was cruel. There is a reason old people are perceived as more yielding to outside influence. It was a horrible thing to do to your grandmother and it was no less horrible to do to a Queen - to reduce her to the level of that old Jane who can barely put one foot before the other unless strictly told how to. He brought her down to the level of an old woman whose heirs are fightint over the will, accusing each other of taking advantage of her dotage.


That's one of the reasons I deem this interview worse than Andrew's, Diana's, Sarah's, Charles' and so on. Out of all of these, Diana was the only one vengeful and let's face it, we're all more understanding of a woman who was never loved by her husband than we are of two entitled teenagers approaching, biologically, their 40s. Aside from her, Harry and Meghan were the only ones aiming to damage the monarchy - and reducing its head to the level of a well-minded but going senile granny works wonders in this respect.


This part of the interview made me think of Queen Juliana of the Netherlands, as she was described in her last years. Not a good image. And the fact that HM's grandson actively pursued it to advance himself is beyond words.
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