The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #501  
Old 03-14-2021, 06:52 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 7,074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Its nonsense. If Meghan felt he was being deprived of a title becuase of his racail origins why did she and Harry deprive him of his courtesy title....
Unlike gender, race was never a criterion for the use of titles in the British royal family. it surprises me that some American commentators are trying to insert the struggle for civil rights in the United States into the debate on royal titles in the United Kingdom when the former has nothing to do with the latter.
__________________

  #502  
Old 03-14-2021, 06:53 PM
Gentry
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Grottoes, United States
Posts: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Nothing about Charles' reign is set in stone as it's yet to be.
You made my point for me. Theoretically there might be a slimmed down monarchy. But it might be smoke and mirrors. Kind of like the whole "Princess Consort" nonsense.
__________________

  #503  
Old 03-14-2021, 06:53 PM
AC21091968's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fem View Post
My theory is... There was a fit/temper tantrum sort of situation - "if he doesn't get an HRH he will not get anything!" from the Sussexes, to which the Palace officials said "sure, no problem" and that was it

Unfortunately they seem like the kind of people who wants to get whatever they want, whenever they want it, however they want it. Especially in light of recent informations from sources that before he "cut them off", Charles has given them a reasonable amount of money (in the hundreds thousands mark) to fund their living situation. Which, of course, would never pay for the $14 milion mansion in Hollywood, so they were furious.

While BRF is an international brand, their focus is mostly on UK/Commonwealth countries. I don't see how US history is important to them while giving the titles, though I do understand people in the US can have an America-centric point of view.

The whole title discussion is basically a non-issue in the UK and European countries with monarchies. The people there understand how it works, so they understand why that decision was made.

And I could argue that this is very much about the feelings - the Sussexes hurt feelings, to be exact. Without it there would be no fuss, no issue, nothing, nada. And pragmatism is having less people with HRHs in the BRF - especially after experiences with Beatrice and Eugenie (and Andrew, who for so long pushed his daughters into the spotlight, fought for their place as working royals, and so on).
The row about Archie's title certainly does came across like a tantrum to me.

I remembered a post (but I couldn't find it) saying that Harry & Meghan are behaving like children who did not get to have the type of cake they wanted. And when the parents get the cake (that the children did not like), the children refuse to have a slice, because it was not the one they wanted it.

If this post was made by you, I apologise in advance for taking or even stealing your ideas

I agree with you that the Commonwealth countries are the Royal Family's main focus.
  #504  
Old 03-14-2021, 07:00 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Scotland, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,110
Quote:
Originally Posted by AC21091968 View Post
The row about Archie's title certainly does came across like a tantrum to me.

I remembered a post (but I couldn't find it) saying that Harry & Meghan are behaving like children who did not get to have the type of cake they wanted. And when the parents get the cake (that the children did not like), the children refuse to have a slice, because it was not the one they wanted it.

If this post was made by you, I apologise in advance for taking or even stealing your ideas
I would agree, all the carry on at the birth then the christening. Public told he was a private citizen and as such no photographs or details.
Looking back that was a bit of foot stamping. It is all so obvious now.
  #505  
Old 03-14-2021, 07:00 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 16,555
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrissyM View Post
However, would the risks be equal. In my own one-light town people are willing to start trouble with interracial couples. (despicable but true) it only takes one crazy on the either side of the racial divide to do something awful. IMO security worries are very real worldwide.
In this world today, those kind of risks exist in every strata of society whether one is a prince or a pauper or American or Australian. There is no guaranteed cure or prevention for it. We learned that in this world we live in, no matter who we are, no matter where we live, no one is 100% secure and safe. 9/11 and 7/7 among other world shaking events have taught us that.
__________________
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
  #506  
Old 03-14-2021, 07:03 PM
Gentry
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Grottoes, United States
Posts: 73
I agree, but better an ounce of prevention vs. a pound of cure.
  #507  
Old 03-14-2021, 07:07 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8,280
Harry arranged for flowers to be laid on his mother’s grave for this Mother’s Day (UK).


https://people.com/royals/prince-har...k-mothers-day/
  #508  
Old 03-14-2021, 07:10 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 3,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrissyM View Post
Okay this is my first real 'opinion' rather than just playing devil's advocate. Putting on my CJ Cregg hat, if I was an advisor, the minute I heard The Sussex's were expecting I'd sit down with the Queen and this would be the scene...

"Ma'am, I strongly urge you to re-write the LP's to say that starting from this birth all Great-grandchildren on the Monarch are automatically granted HRH unless specifically refused by their parents,"

"Why?" Her Majesty would reasonably ask.

"Ma'am, if you don't, someone, somewhere could and likely would say that this child isn't given it because of his ethnic makeup."

Possibly Her Majesty would say "But that's untrue, and ridiculous. The rules were made in 1917."

"That's correct ma'am. However, in 1917 people of color were lynched in the US and couldn't even use the same lavatory until the late 60's.
Someone will bring it up, and the only way not to have a horse in that race, is to cancel the race. This is the world we live in now."

The royal title rules made in 1917 do not discriminate based on race or color in any form. They are available to read in their entirety at the following link:

https://www.heraldica.org/topics/bri...ocs.htm#1917_2
George the Fifth by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and of the British Dominions beyond the Seas, King, Defender of the Faith To all to whom these presents shall come Greeting: Whereas Her late Majesty Queen Victoria did by Her Letters Patent dated the thirtieth day of January in the twenty seventh year of Her Reign declare her Royal Pleasure as to the style and title of the Princes and Princesses of the Royal Family in the manner in the said Letters Patent particularly mentioned And whereas we deem it expedient that the said Letters Patent should be extended and amended and that the styles and titles to be borne by the Princes and Princesses of the Royal Family should be henceforth established defined and limited in manner hereinafter declared Now Know Ye that We of our especial grace certain knowledge and mere motion do hereby declare our Royal Will and Pleasure that the children of any Sovereign of these Realms and the children of the sons of any such Sovereign and the eldest living son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales shall have and at all times hold and enjoy the style title or attribute of Royal Highness with their titular dignity of Prince or Princess prefixed to their respective Christian names or with their other titles of honour And We do further declare our Royal Will and Pleasure that save as aforesaid the style title or attribute of Royal Highness Highness or Serene Highness and the titular dignity of Prince or Princess shall not henceforth be assumed or borne by any descendent of any Sovereign of these Realms excepting always any such descendant who at the date of these Letters Patent holds or bears any right to any such style degree attribute or titular dignity in pursuance of any Letters Patent granted by Ourselves or any of Our Royal Predecessors and still remaining unrevoked it being Our Royal Will and Pleasure that the grandchildren of the sons of any such Sovereign in the direct male line (save only the eldest living son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales) shall have and enjoy in all occasions the style and title enjoyed by the children of Dukes of these Our Realms Our Will and Pleasure further is that Our Earl Marshal of England or his deputy for the time being do cause these our Letters Patent or the enrolment thereof to be recorded in Our College of Arms to the end that Our officers of Arms and all others may take due notice thereof. In Witness whereof We have caused these Our Letters to be made Patent Witness Ourself at Westminster the thirtieth day of November in the eighth year of Our reign.

By Warrant under the King's Sign Manual.
Schuster.

(Original letters patent, National Archives, HO 125/15. See also College of Arms, ms. I78/25.)

Whitehall, 11th December, 1917.
The KING has been pleased by Letters Patent under the Great Seal of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, bearing date the 30th ultimo, to define the styles and titles to be borne henceforth by members of the Royal Family. It is declared by the Letters Patent that the children of any Sovereign of the United Kingdom and the children of the sons of any such Sovereign and the eldest living son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales shall have and at all times hold and enjoy the style, title or attribute of Royal Highness with their titular dignity of Prince or Princess prefixed to their respective Christian names or with their other titles of honour; that save as aforesaid the titles of Royal Highness, Highness or Serene Highness, and the titular dignity of Prince and Princess shall cease except those titles already granted and remaining unrevoked; and that the grandchildren of the sons of any such Sovereign in the direct male line (save only the eldest living son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales) shall have the style and title enjoyed by the children of Dukes.

(London Gazette, issue 30428, Dec. 14, 1917, p. 2.)
  #509  
Old 03-14-2021, 07:12 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8,280
Stranger from Ohio found on Meghan and Harry’s grounds TWICE. Was finally arrested by police.

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/202...r-the-holidays
  #510  
Old 03-14-2021, 07:14 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Washington, United States
Posts: 1,695
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrissyM View Post
May I ask where it's set in stone about the PoW "slimming" down the Monarchy, lopping off HRH's etc? I've only seen conjecture, and speculation not facts.
It is not set in stone but Meghan's comments during the interview confirm it. If not, what else was she talking about?
  #511  
Old 03-14-2021, 07:21 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8,280
I saw the interview and when discussing the HRH matter Meghan referred to ‘they’ as to what she was told. I took it as senior aides/courtiers telling her, not Charles. And she never spoke about any ‘slimming down of the monarchy’ at all, not from Charles, not from anyone.
  #512  
Old 03-14-2021, 07:25 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Washington, United States
Posts: 1,695
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrissyM View Post
However, would the risks be equal. In my own one-light town people are willing to start trouble with interracial couples. (despicable but true) it only takes one crazy on the either side of the racial divide to do something awful. IMO security worries are very real worldwide.
the security worries are absolutely very real - even if Meghan were a WASP, they would have to be concerned about his security is very high profile: Someone tried to kidnap Princess Anne, There was an IRA plot to kill Charles and Diana, et.

the argument is over who should pay for this security. My understanding is that the Prime Minister indicated that the Canadian government would pay their security. Charles gave them a few hundred pounds for seed money. Then, Canada withdrew the security. Harry got on the phone with Charles and demanded that Charles pay his security. For whatever reason, Charles declined.

So the issue isn't whether they should have security but whether Harry should dip into his mum's money (which came from Charles) to pay for it. Harry and Meghan should be grateful that they have the resources to have security. Many people all over the world have serious, legitimate concerns about their safety. Those that can't afford 24/7 security are often left to fend for themselves. It's not fair - but life isn't fair.
  #513  
Old 03-14-2021, 07:27 PM
texankitcat's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dallas, United States
Posts: 1,059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I cant' help feeling that actually Harry knows litlte more than Meghan..about the rules of royal life. Either that or he DOES know better but he can't persuade HER that the various things she's said in this interview are incorrect - so he just agrees with her...
It’s difficult to make the argument that Harry is as ignorant as Meghan pretends to be since he was born into it and raised within its protocols, rules and history. There is just no way he doesn’t know how things work and there is no way she is truly ignorant since these rules either considering the special team that was put in place to educate her on all areas of being a Royal duchess.

As for why Harry allowed these deceptions could only be for two reasons. The first is they discussed and planned the deceptions together for maximum dramatic affect and sympathy for the American audience who wouldn’t question or know anything about how the Monarchy works or this was Meghan’s doing and Harry was afraid to contradict her in order to keep her happy. Either way, Harry’s complicity in these deceptions is inexcusable.
  #514  
Old 03-14-2021, 07:29 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Washington, United States
Posts: 1,695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
I saw the interview and when discussing the HRH matter Meghan referred to ‘they’ as to what she was told. I took it as senior aides/courtiers telling her, not Charles. And she never spoke about any ‘slimming down of the monarchy’ at all, not from Charles, not from anyone.
Apparently, she didn't say the words "sliming down" but she did discuss changing the rules so that Archie would not be a HRH and, as a result, not eligible for protection. Since the actual issue was that the Queen would not change the rules regarding Archie's royal status, I think it is reasonable to believe that Meghan was speaking about long discussed plans to reduce the number of HRHs.

There has been no official announcement, but given how the family handled the York princesses and Edward and Sophie handle their children's titles, I think it is obvious. Not everything has to be spelled out.
  #515  
Old 03-14-2021, 07:37 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: N/A, Bulgaria
Posts: 369
The interview keeps rolling, it seems. The man broke into their home in *December*, yet they only find it fitting to announce it now, after their recent complaints that the RF took away their security? If it doesn't prove that they need this security, I don't know what does. Good timing.


Given the fact that HMQ had a trespasser in her very bedroom, I'm not sure the RF provided security would have been iron-clad but whatever. I suppose providing better security for himself and his family with the millions he has is a priority for Harry.
  #516  
Old 03-14-2021, 07:44 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: bedford, United States
Posts: 1,658
The whole idea brought up Harry will do anything to keep her happy and is even afraid to contradict her Has abusive undertones and something I find very uncomfortable.
  #517  
Old 03-14-2021, 07:44 PM
AC21091968's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Stranger from Ohio found on Meghan and Harry’s grounds TWICE. Was finally arrested by police.

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/202...r-the-holidays
I am not familiar with Californian Law and Santa Barbara County Police, but why was the trespasser not fined, but being let off with warning after he was caught in his first attempt? Surely, he should have been fined for breaking the law by entering a person's property without permission.
  #518  
Old 03-14-2021, 07:50 PM
rominet09's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: LIEGE, Belgium
Posts: 4,845
Maybe if they had bought a smaller property instead of this enormous one, they could have afforded to pay for their security.
  #519  
Old 03-14-2021, 07:55 PM
Gentry
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Grottoes, United States
Posts: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
The royal title rules made in 1917 do not discriminate based on race or color in any form. They are available to read in their entirety at the following link:

https://www.heraldica.org/topics/bri...ocs.htm#1917_2
George the Fifth by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and of the British Dominions beyond the Seas, King, Defender of the Faith To all to whom these presents shall come Greeting: Whereas Her late Majesty Queen Victoria did by Her Letters Patent dated the thirtieth day of January in the twenty seventh year of Her Reign declare her Royal Pleasure as to the style and title of the Princes and Princesses of the Royal Family in the manner in the said Letters Patent particularly mentioned And whereas we deem it expedient that the said Letters Patent should be extended and amended and that the styles and titles to be borne by the Princes and Princesses of the Royal Family should be henceforth established defined and limited in manner hereinafter declared Now Know Ye that We of our especial grace certain knowledge and mere motion do hereby declare our Royal Will and Pleasure that the children of any Sovereign of these Realms and the children of the sons of any such Sovereign and the eldest living son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales shall have and at all times hold and enjoy the style title or attribute of Royal Highness with their titular dignity of Prince or Princess prefixed to their respective Christian names or with their other titles of honour And We do further declare our Royal Will and Pleasure that save as aforesaid the style title or attribute of Royal Highness Highness or Serene Highness and the titular dignity of Prince or Princess shall not henceforth be assumed or borne by any descendent of any Sovereign of these Realms excepting always any such descendant who at the date of these Letters Patent holds or bears any right to any such style degree attribute or titular dignity in pursuance of any Letters Patent granted by Ourselves or any of Our Royal Predecessors and still remaining unrevoked it being Our Royal Will and Pleasure that the grandchildren of the sons of any such Sovereign in the direct male line (save only the eldest living son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales) shall have and enjoy in all occasions the style and title enjoyed by the children of Dukes of these Our Realms Our Will and Pleasure further is that Our Earl Marshal of England or his deputy for the time being do cause these our Letters Patent or the enrolment thereof to be recorded in Our College of Arms to the end that Our officers of Arms and all others may take due notice thereof. In Witness whereof We have caused these Our Letters to be made Patent Witness Ourself at Westminster the thirtieth day of November in the eighth year of Our reign.

By Warrant under the King's Sign Manual.
Schuster.

(Original letters patent, National Archives, HO 125/15. See also College of Arms, ms. I78/25.)

Whitehall, 11th December, 1917.
The KING has been pleased by Letters Patent under the Great Seal of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, bearing date the 30th ultimo, to define the styles and titles to be borne henceforth by members of the Royal Family. It is declared by the Letters Patent that the children of any Sovereign of the United Kingdom and the children of the sons of any such Sovereign and the eldest living son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales shall have and at all times hold and enjoy the style, title or attribute of Royal Highness with their titular dignity of Prince or Princess prefixed to their respective Christian names or with their other titles of honour; that save as aforesaid the titles of Royal Highness, Highness or Serene Highness, and the titular dignity of Prince and Princess shall cease except those titles already granted and remaining unrevoked; and that the grandchildren of the sons of any such Sovereign in the direct male line (save only the eldest living son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales) shall have the style and title enjoyed by the children of Dukes.

(London Gazette, issue 30428, Dec. 14, 1917, p. 2.)
But that's not what it looks like! In today's world that's what counts. Why should it matter to the BRF how it looks to a bi-racial American? Because, The Duchess is a bi-racial American. She became a part of the "brand" she still is whether she is a working royal or not.
  #520  
Old 03-14-2021, 07:56 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,470
Quote:
Originally Posted by amaryllus View Post
The whole idea brought up Harry will do anything to keep her happy and is even afraid to contradict her Has abusive undertones and something I find very uncomfortable.
Whole thing is uncomfortable
__________________

Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 2: December 2020-March 2021 JessRulz Current Events Archive 874 03-07-2021 08:05 PM




Popular Tags
abu dhabi america archie mountbatten-windsor background story baptism biography british british royal family buckingham palace camilla camilla's family camilla parker-bowles camilla parker bowles china chinese ming dynasty asia asian emperor royalty qing chinese commonwealth countries countess of snowdon customs daisy doge of venice doll duchess of sussex duke of cambridge duke of sussex edward vii elizabeth ii family life family tree fashion and style george vi gustaf vi adolf harry and meghan hereditary grand duchess stéphanie hereditary grand duke guillaume highgrove jack brooksbank jewellery king edward vii king willem-alexander książ castle line of succession list of rulers meghan markle mountbatten names nepal nepalese royal jewels plantinum jubilee prince charles of luxembourg prince constantijn prince harry princess ariane princess catharina-amalia princess chulabhorn walailak princess dita princess eugenie princess ribha queen consort queen louise queen maxima queen victoria royal ancestry spain speech suthida taiwan thailand unfinished portrait united states of america welsh


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:27 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021
Jelsoft Enterprises
×