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  #381  
Old 03-14-2021, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
I disagree. I cannot see Meghan insisting on the Royal font and christening gown.

Harry is quite another story. Absolutely I can see him demanding those things. And if HM and the CoE refuse to take the huge risk( think of the insurance cost!) of putting these items on an airplane to be shipped thousands of miles away...well.

My prediction is that there will be hell to pay.
I donít know if there are any protocols in place for a US christening of a Royal baby since there has never been that scenario that I am aware of. If you were dealing with any other Royal couple, I would imagine the expectation would be that they would fly home to the UK to have the Traditional Royal christening in the Church of England. Clearly that isnít going to happen. I donít see any Royal attending a christening in the US and I am quite sure that even if Harry wanted it, Meghan would not. We all know what Meghan wants where Harry is concerned, Meghan gets.
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  #382  
Old 03-14-2021, 10:38 AM
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I don't believe Netflix just handed them 150 million free dollars to do with whatever they please. I imagine the lawyers they have once again engaged to deal with the investigation of and by an institution they have loudly declared they no longer wish to belong to don't come cheap.


They'd better hope Charles opens the bank once again soon, for all they have made it a very bad optics on him if he ever does.
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  #383  
Old 03-14-2021, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by muriel View Post
Knowing what we now know, my sense is that sometime during the pregnancy H&M would have been told that special Letters Patent would not be issued to make Archie a Prince in the current reign, and given Charles' longer term plan of slimming the monarchy, Archie was not going to be a Prince in the next reign either.

Whilst this may seem sensible to those on the outside, especially given the difficult time BEa & Eugenie have had in the press, this did not work for Meghan. She probably convinced herself (and Harry) this was a personal affront to her, and I suspect that is why all the drama surrounding Archie's birth followed.
This is what I think probably happened - at some point someone will have asked or brought up titles and it was made clear HM would not be issuing special LPs to make Archie a Prince. While this should have been a pretty simple - continuing to follow rules that have been in place for 100 years moment it was turned into something bigger. I can honestly say I think everyone (apart from H&M) probably thought this was the best thing because:

-Archie would be getting the Prince title under Charles' reign anyway so it wasn't necessarily a never just a not now

-Apart from Andrew's girls (who have faced problems having HRH and Princess titles) none of the Queen's grandchildren bar those of her eldest & her heir have HRH Prince/Princess, even where Edward could have they chose not to use them. The Queen likely sees this as quite a good thing so thought, especially if H&M had been saying how unhappy they were, it was the best thing.

-Charles has talked about a 'slimmed down monarchy' so waiting and having further discussions about Archie's role within that probably seemed the best thing

-If there had been discussions about them moving somewhere else it would seem odd to change the rules for the child of couple struggling with being royal

- The Queen doesn't seem particularly fond of issuing LPs, she simply released a press release to say Edward's children would be known as Viscount Severn and Lady Louise. She had to issue LPs in regards to William's children as parliament and the government were in the middle of changing the law to make primogeniture equal regardless of sex - so the rules around titles had to change to reflect that as it was possible Charlotte had been born first and would become heir but her younger brother would be titled and her even younger brother not. The Queen acted because she had to.

I honestly see it at the Queen, Charles, RF and staff thinking this was the best thing for H&M and their unborn baby - a life free of set obligations and away from the pressures of being HRH Prince with the possibility of taking a title in a few years after further discussions. Seems very sensible to me.
  #384  
Old 03-14-2021, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RosieStroud View Post
At the risk of being shouted down, can I just respectfully raise a question and a humble opinion.

With regards to the opinion, I would agree that the Catherine/Meghan upsetting incident (whoever was the instigator!) needs to be put to bed. According to Meghan herself, this has been resolved satisfactorily. These differences happen, especially when people are stressed, i.e. wedding preparations. Most adults, having let off steam, will apologise, as appropriate and move on.

My question is around the alleged Ďracistí conversation. Who was this question actually put to - Meghan & Harry together, Meghan alone or Harry alone? Do we know whether there were witnesses? Whilst I would NEVER condone racism in any form, to make any accusation one needs to be able to produce evidence to support it. I am happy to be corrected if I have missed something in the interview that answers this question.

Thank you.
From what I heard Harry conveyed the discussion to Meghan. He was the one who heard it from the unidentified person.
  #385  
Old 03-14-2021, 10:51 AM
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More and more, I'm thinking one purpose that this interview served is that Harry and Meghan bit the hand that fed them. Did they honestly think there would be no repercussions and that everyone and their grandmother's pet cockatoo would just blindly accept whatever they've said as being gospel truth?

The fall out of all this though is just reaching the ears and eyes of people that could see the discrepancies. The majority of the people that have watched the interview probably have forgotten it by now. It was two hours of entertainment on one night. This interview hit out and hurt a lot of people that should matter to Harry and Meghan but effectively, it's going to alienate them even further from them.

On the subject of the christening. I think it will be a small, private affair that nobody will know about. Having a close family "royal" member as a godparent is as likely as Samantha Markle or Tom Markle, Jr. There's a lot of bridges that need to be totally constructed before there's any kind of familial relationship of worth built up again and that's besides the Covid restrictions that may still be in place at the time of birth.
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  #386  
Old 03-14-2021, 10:53 AM
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If there is no travel allowed during Christening or severely restricted. Suppose they choose one of Sarah Spencer's children to be godparent or perhaps Eugenie, They could be there by "proxy" assuming the Christening takes place in the US. Is that correct?
  #387  
Old 03-14-2021, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandy345 View Post
From what I heard Harry conveyed the discussion to Meghan. He was the one who heard it from the unidentified person.
It was a confused message, Meghan initially said there had been several conversations about Archie that had taken place with Harry although they didnt know he was a boy at that time , which to me would suggest during the pregnancy .
When Harry answered the question it was put as one conversation with one person much earlier, I think I am right in saying he said before the engagement. I am happy to be corrected on that but definitely an earlier single conversation.
  #388  
Old 03-14-2021, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandy345 View Post
If there is no travel allowed during Christening or severely restricted. Suppose they choose one of Sarah Spencer's children to be godparent or perhaps Eugenie, They could be there by "proxy" assuming the Christening takes place in the US. Is that correct?
The CofE doesn't really allow "godparents by proxy" since you're already making promises on the baby's behalf although I know a couple that were present by Zoom recently due to the pandemic but I'm not sure how official that was. You have to sign the baptismal record for one thing.

https://churchofenglandchristenings....ents-by-proxy/

I assume ECUSA are similar.
  #389  
Old 03-14-2021, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrissyM View Post
Why weren't they changed for Master Archie and his future siblings? To me the obvious answer would be, 'we will not know' for some time. I can live with that.
Yes, you are correct, we can't know the reasons with certainty.

But I'm guessing the rules weren't changed for Archie and his siblings because they aren't the children of a future King/Queen, which explains why they were changed for Elizabeth's and George's.

I also wonder if a plan is afoot to limit the HRH to working royals only (a kind of job title), which Archie and his siblings probably won't be, a la Andrew and Edward's children.

As other posters have pointed out, Beatrice and Eugenie are styled HRH but aren't working royals, which sometimes places them in a nebulous position in the eyes of the public, half in and half out. Presumably that's why Edward's children don't use their HRHs, since the plan is for them to lead private lives as well.

When I stand back and look at all this, I see the current rules (George V's LP) slowly being phased out while the RF reconsiders them in an effort to pare the number of "nonworking" HRHs down.

But whatever the reason, it has nothing to do with race. After all, Meghan is biracial and she is styled HRH, although she and Harry agreed not to use their HRHs after stepping down.
  #390  
Old 03-14-2021, 11:24 AM
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Plus according to Meghan and Harry they had already told the family they wanted to leave.
  #391  
Old 03-14-2021, 11:38 AM
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Louise is 13 years younger than Eugenie. A lot changed in that time. I think that the 1992 Windsor Castle fire was a big turning point: major questions were asked at that time about the cost of the monarchy, and it was decided that the Queen should pay tax, and that the taxpayer shouldn't fund the refurbishment of Windsor. That was reinforced a few years later by the decision to decommission the Royal Yacht Britannia. Even Edward and Sophie's wedding was part of that - if Andrew was entitled to a huge wedding in Westminster Abbey, then so was Edward, but it didn't happen. Everything was moving towards slimming down the monarchy, and Edward and Sophie understood that, but apparently Harry and Meghan didn't.
  #392  
Old 03-14-2021, 11:41 AM
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I expect that they will come to the UK - or say they want to for the Great grandparents. Bless their little self serving hearts. Harry must really be expecting a windfall from the Queen's will.

With regard to when the titles and when what was discussed when - I expect it will be changed again in the next interview and the next after that. They want one rule fort themselves and another for everyone else.

It has occurred to me that all of this could have been avoided it the Queen and Charles had cemented their plans have them as rules, and not agreements. IF they had simply published the letter patent that everyone appears to be following and Charles' grand plan for a slimmed down monarchy so everyone in the family knows exactly where they stand and there is no conflicting opinions.
I find it very ironic that the steps Charles put in place to secure power and popularity for himself and his family is the exact things that they are using against him. The monarchy Charles had envisioned is gone and he is having to save face with the royals that he pushed aside previously - there is a parable in this somewhere. I think Meghan got the story wrong - this is King Lear not the Little Mermaid. Harry and Meghan have miscast themsevles.
  #393  
Old 03-14-2021, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Surely she can't get access to the e-mails? Not at present at least, I imagine.
That could be seen as intimidating, if she were, I'd say. (Whether she is guilty in bulling or nor is beside the point.)
It would seem highly inappropriate to me. I mean we can guess between us that once H&M see them their PR teams will try to discredit those people who have made any claims through the media. Surely such content will be kept private, the outcome will probably include a report that will highlight some evidence but also rely on those carrying out the investigation to draw judgements based on what they have seen and heard. Handing it to an independent outsider seems the best idea - it will make it harder for people to believe any outcomes have been manipulated by the Palace.
  #394  
Old 03-14-2021, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire View Post
I expect that they will come to the UK - or say they want to for the Great grandparents. Bless their little self serving hearts. Harry must really be expecting a windfall from the Queen's will.

With regard to when the titles and when what was discussed when - I expect it will be changed again in the next interview and the next after that. They want one rule fort themselves and another for everyone else.

It has occurred to me that all of this could have been avoided it the Queen and Charles had cemented their plans have them as rules, and not agreements. IF they had simply published the letter patent that everyone appears to be following and Charles' grand plan for a slimmed down monarchy so everyone in the family knows exactly where they stand and there is no conflicting opinions.
I find it very ironic that the steps Charles put in place to secure power and popularity for himself and his family is the exact things that they are using against him. The monarchy Charles had envisioned is gone and he is having to save face with the royals that he pushed aside previously - there is a parable in this somewhere. I think Meghan got the story wrong - this is King Lear not the Little Mermaid. Harry and Meghan have miscast themsevles.
It doesn't seem to be set in stone yet though as evidenced by even Meghan talking about "the George V or VI protocol". All that happened was something DIDN'T happen. HM didn't go "Oh, Harry and Meghan your baby definitely needs to be HRH Prince/ss because you're the most popular royals!" or "Yes Harry, I agree it's unfair, let me just get my pen out."

It might also be seen as a bit rude and jumping the gun for Charles to publicly lay out his plans for the Monarchy under his reign before his mother even dies. There are enough "jokes" that he wants her to die or abdicate ASAP as it is.

Not to mention the Kents and Glouscesters are still working.

Besides even if the Queen had issued a proclamation about titles before Harry and Meghan even married they would still find a way to make themselves the victims in all this. Harry seems to think a lot of exceptions should be made for them.

I mean they're complaining that their son doesn't have HRH Prince when they've also declared "The Institution" toxic and his family as trapped and sent them both to dark places. Their words about titles and racism are accepted as truth even though the facts about the 1917 LPs have been plastered all over the place. I'm not sure most media companies even bothered to google before writing articles.

I agree they might find themselves short handed with just William and Kate in that generation but they might also change how things like patronages are handled going forward.
  #395  
Old 03-14-2021, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
More and more, I'm thinking one purpose that this interview served is that Harry and Meghan bit the hand that fed them. Did they honestly think there would be no repercussions and that everyone and their grandmother's pet cockatoo would just blindly accept whatever they've said as being gospel truth?



The fall out of all this though is just reaching the ears and eyes of people that could see the discrepancies. The majority of the people that have watched the interview probably have forgotten it by now. It was two hours of entertainment on one night. This interview hit out and hurt a lot of people that should matter to Harry and Meghan but effectively, it's going to alienate them even further from them.

I donít think Harry and Meghan seriously think through the consequences of much of anything they do. They do things half- cocked. Itís very consistent. They didnít seriously think about what financial independence meant. They sure didnít think before launching their website announcing their half in and half out plan as a done deal- and then had to roll that back. (That had to be embarrassing.)

So- Iím sure they didnít seriously think through the consequences of giving a bombshell interview that was going to be fact checked with a fine tooth comb and was absolutely certain to further alienate them from family, possibly friends, maybe even future business deals with people who now perceive them as loose cannons, untrustworthy, etc.

Youíre right: They burned a lot of bridges with people that should matter to Harry and Meghan for a 2 hour interview that for most people was ď2 hours of entertainment on one nightĒ....and most viewers have forgotten it by now.
  #396  
Old 03-14-2021, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
I agree they might find themselves short handed with just William and Kate in that generation but they might also change how things like patronages are handled going forward.

They will be definitely short-handed now but I believe they're going to find a way, be it different handling of patronages or something else. Harry and Meghan didn't leave them with much of a choice, did they?


Re: bullying allegations. Isn't it unrealistic of Meghan to expect anything from the BP? Surely it's the independant company investigating the case that decides who gets what? I mean, the BP all but admitted loud that it was incapable of handling it directly because it had failed spectacularly *in her favour*. I suspect that's why she turned to the palace. Interview notwithstanding, it's easier for Harry to throw his weight around or whine to his grandmother and father than trying to do it with an outside entity.
  #397  
Old 03-14-2021, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
I donít think Harry and Meghan seriously think through the consequences of much of anything they do. They do things half- cocked. Itís very consistent. They didnít seriously think about what financial independence meant. They sure didnít think before launching their website announcing their half in and half out plan as a done deal- and then had to roll that back. (That had to be embarrassing.)

So- Iím sure they didnít seriously think through the consequences of giving a bombshell interview that was going to be fact checked with a fine tooth comb and was absolutely certain to further alienate them from family, possibly friends, maybe even future business deals with people who now perceive them as loose cannons, untrustworthy, etc.

Youíre right: They burned a lot of bridges with people that should matter to Harry and Meghan for a 2 hour interview that for most people was ď2 hours of entertainment on one nightĒ....and most viewers have forgotten it by now.
I think this is something that even their friends and supporters say. They are impetuous and what they want today isn't necessarily what they want tomorrow.

Diana was like that too to a certain extent. It's all very worrying really.

I am sure Harry hasn't taught about anything long term. I mean it's pretty dreadful
  #398  
Old 03-14-2021, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Moran View Post
Re: bullying allegations. Isn't it unrealistic of Meghan to expect anything from the BP? Surely it's the independant company investigating the case that decides who gets what? I mean, the BP all but admitted loud that it was incapable of handling it directly because it had failed spectacularly *in her favour*. I suspect that's why she turned to the palace. Interview notwithstanding, it's easier for Harry to throw his weight around or whine to his grandmother and father than trying to do it with an outside entity.
It was obvious they would need an outsider. And to be honest I would expect it. They probably saw how many people were involved and decided it was better to outsource given the number of employees affected.

This is very normal practice.
  #399  
Old 03-14-2021, 12:35 PM
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The e mails were not hers, they were written and sent to others so I am not sure how she can demand them .

I thought the enquiry was in regards to how the complaints were handled not if they were justified.
  #400  
Old 03-14-2021, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Hallo girl View Post
The e mails were not hers, they were written and sent to others so I am not sure how she can demand them .
Well, they were written about her, so she needs to see them in order to set the record straight about their varying recollections. And, also, to see what she has in her own email archives so that she can settle any scores.
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