The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 3: March - April 2021

[poppy7]

I am just quoting what was said in the programme I stand corrected.

Yeah I saw it too it was a good programme. But no bit he did go over and have a chat with them which was nice.

William has never been overly involved with his Spencer relatives. Harry used to be out clubbing with Kitty.

 

[KrissyM]

It isn't. It's a non issue to anyone but Meghan

Who is to say that it wouldn't have come up without her. I am certain it would have at some point. It's an opinion, it can't be right or wrong. Just like I can't say you are right or wrong.

 

[Denville]

Who is to say that it wouldn't have come up without her. I am certain it would have at some point. It's an opinion, it can't be right or wrong. Just like I can't say you are right or wrong.

Since it didn't come up at the time and he's now 2 years old, and has left the RF, I can't see why it would come up..Why would they want him to be HRH now that they are living in the US and have abandoned the UK

 

[KrissyM]

I'm not trying to convince anyone I am right. I am just sharing my thoughts.

 

[Fem]

Its nonsense. If Meghan felt he was being deprived of a title becuase of his racail origins why did she and Harry deprive him of his courtesy title....

My theory is... There was a fit/temper tantrum sort of situation - "if he doesn't get an HRH he will not get anything!" from the Sussexes, to which the Palace officials said "sure, no problem" and that was it

Unfortunately they seem like the kind of people who wants to get whatever they want, whenever they want it, however they want it. Especially in light of recent informations from sources that before he "cut them off", Charles has given them a reasonable amount of money (in the hundreds thousands mark) to fund their living situation. Which, of course, would never pay for the $14 milion mansion in Hollywood, so they were furious.

Because like it or not the BRF are an international brand with a high profile bi-racial American member! I don't care personally about the feelings. It's pragmatism.

While BRF is an international brand, their focus is mostly on UK/Commonwealth countries. I don't see how US history is important to them while giving the titles, though I do understand people in the US can have an America-centric point of view.

The whole title discussion is basically a non-issue in the UK and European countries with monarchies. The people there understand how it works, so they understand why that decision was made.

And I could argue that this is very much about the feelings - the Sussexes hurt feelings, to be exact. Without it there would be no fuss, no issue, nothing, nada. And pragmatism is having less people with HRHs in the BRF - especially after experiences with Beatrice and Eugenie (and Andrew, who for so long pushed his daughters into the spotlight, fought for their place as working royals, and so on).

 

[Osipi]

I'm not trying to convince anyone I am right. I am just sharing my thoughts.

And along with that, started a very intelligent discussion, IMO.

 

[KrissyM]

The BRF care plenty about the international community when they lobby for rich donors for their charities. To think otherwise is naïve.

 

[texankitcat]

Nobody cared. Nobody really cares. That point has been a non issue in the UK. Feeling now is the less members to pay for the better.

I mean Meghan being appalled that she was asked if she wanted to keep working because theybdidnt have money for her was another one. I actually think that was incredibly modern of them. Why shouldn't a self made woman keep on working. All the men did. I actually think that was pretty progressive of them. Acting wasn't a political job that could have brought issues to the family.

Meghan may have been much much happier.

As with so many other things she said, this statement sounds like another made up story. The intent was always that Harry would be a full time working Royal as a Senior member which means his wife would as well. How would she be able to continue an acting career in the US as a Royal Duchess and a Senior working member of the Royal family? I don’t see how that would have been offered as an option for her. If it is an option now they have stepped away why isn’t she pursuing an acting career to support her family? She would certainly have Hollywood clamoring for an American Royal Duchess to star in a huge production. There are certain obligations that come with their title and HRH status, and I don’t think being a Hollywood actress is one of them.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

That isn't what I meant. I realize that controversy is eternal, but this one could be seen coming lightyears away. IMO it's just common sense to head off the ones you can.

Harry's known about this for years so unless he had objected, i don't know that the controversy was foreseeable. Most royals have not insisted on receiving an HRH. Based on the engagement interview and descriptions of Meghan, I wouldn't have thought it was a big deal for Meghan either.

The Queen would not have issued a new letter patent because it would have tied Charles's hands. If I am not mistaken, Archie and his sister will become HRHs as soon as Charles becomes king, it's not something that is bestowed on them. I doubt the plan was for Charles to take the HRH away, especially if Meghan and Harry objected, however Charles will probably ensure that they are the last children of a space to receive the HRH.

Personally, I think the whole confused discussion about Archie's status is tied to the plan that their children would never be working royals (which is why they wouldn't ever have security as adults).

 

[Hallo girl]

No fuss was made about the lack of title here, neither did I hear or read anybody suggesting it was because he was bi racial.
Sometimes people look for things that arent there and aren't happy until they find it.

 

[poppy7]

As with so many other things she said, this statement sounds like another made up story. The intent was always that Harry would be a full time working Royal as a Senior member which means his wife would as well. How would she be able to continue an acting career in the US as a Royal Duchess and a Senior working member of the Royal family? I don’t see how that would have been offered as an option for her. If it is an option now they have stepped away why isn’t she pursuing an acting career to support her family? She would certainly have Hollywood clamoring for an American Royal Duchess to star in a huge production. There are certain obligations that come with their title and HRH status, and I don’t think being a Hollywood actress is one of them.

Tony Snowdon kept working. Mark Phillips. Lawrence. Why did Harry need a wife going with him on engagements? Why do the women have to give up everything.

And I am sure they would have helped her with stuff in the UK. And an arts or sports career ala Snowdon and Philip's would have been perfect. But who knows if it was true. I would like to think that when the time comes that Charlotte and Louis's future spouses will be allowed to continue with careers if they are compatible. George's obviously not. Marrying the heir is a career move in itself.

I dont see why Harry couldn't have kept up his engagements on his own.

 

[Denville]

The BRF care plenty about the international community when they lobby for rich donors for their charities. To think otherwise is naïve.

What is the "international community"?

 

[KrissyM]

The Queen would not have issued a new letter patent because it would have tied Charles's hands. If I am not mistaken, Archie and his sister will become HRHs as soon as Charles becomes king, it's not something that is bestowed on them. I doubt the plan was for Charles to take the HRH away, especially if Meghan and Harry objected, however Charles will probably ensure that they are the last children of a space to receive the HRH.

Personally, I think the whole confused discussion about Archie's status is tied to the plan that their children would never be working royals (which is why they wouldn't ever have security as adults).

May I ask where it's set in stone about the PoW "slimming" down the Monarchy, lopping off HRH's etc? I've only seen conjecture, and speculation not facts.

 

[Osipi]

These issues that seem to be a sticking point for Meghan about titles and security and whatever and alluding that it is because Archie is biracial tells me that she's never considered the fact that all this *still* would have happened exactly as it has happened if things were perhaps a wee bit different and it was William that fell in love with and married a biracial American divorcee and Harry married the "perfect on paper" English rose.

 

[KrissyM]

What is the "international community"?

The Prince's Trust alone has donors donating Millions just in the US alone.

 

[Denville]

Tony Snowdon kept working. Mark Phillips. Lawrence. Why did Harry need a wife going with him on engagements? Why do the women have to give up everything.

And I am sure they would have helped her with stuff in the UK. And an arts or sports career ala Snowdon and Philip's would have been perfect. But who knows if it was true. I would like to think that when the time comes that Charlotte and Louis's future spouses will be allowed to continue with careers if they are compatible. George's obviously not. Marrying the heir is a career move in itself.

I dont see why Harry couldn't have kept up his engagements on his own.

Same rreason Willam does not work alone. Charles was aiming for a small royal family, ie he himself, his wife, his 2 sons and their wives.. and IMO it was always expected that unless she completely refused to do it, Meg would work as a royal. SHe's not a brilliant actress, as far as one can see, and there would be controversy over what parts she got and why she got them. This is another of her odd statements IMO...
if they DID offer her a chance to go on acting, why didn't she take it? It woudl fit in better with her desire to be an independnent woman.

 

[poppy7]

Same rreason Willam does not work alone. Charles was aiming for a small royal family, ie he himself, his wife, his 2 sons and their wives.. and IMO it was always expected that unless she completely refused to do it, Meg would work as a royal. SHe's not a brilliant actress, as far as one can see, and there would be controversy over what parts she got and why she got them. This is another of her odd statements IMO...
if they DID offer her a chance to go on acting, why didn't she take it? It woudl fit in better with her desire to be an independnent woman.

Because she didn't want to. She looked appalled saying it was even suggested.

William is different. I dont think any spouse except for the heirs should be required to work for the firm. And its only the women that are and it isn't right.

 

[KrissyM]

These issues that seem to be a sticking point for Meghan about titles and security and whatever and alluding that it is because Archie is biracial tells me that she's never considered the fact that all this *still* would have happened exactly as it has happened if things were perhaps a wee bit different and it was William that fell in love with and married a biracial American divorcee and Harry married the "perfect on paper" English rose.

However, would the risks be equal. In my own one-light town people are willing to start trouble with interracial couples. (despicable but true) it only takes one crazy on the either side of the racial divide to do something awful. IMO security worries are very real worldwide.

 

[Osipi]

May I ask where it's set in stone about the PoW "slimming" down the Monarchy, lopping off HRH's etc? I've only seen conjecture, and speculation not facts.

Nothing about Charles' reign is set in stone as it's yet to be. He was asked once how he felt about waiting so very long for the "top job". Charles' response was something like "You do realize that in order to get the "top job", my mother will have died."

Years ago, there used to be such a beast called the "Way Ahead Group" which met, I believe, twice a year to sit down and analyze and plan how the "Firm" would move ahead going into the future. I would imagine Charles' "slimmed down monarchy" has been on the table there many, many times. The British Royal Family and its "Firm" do not wait for things to happen by chance. They plan out every possibility and explore what could happen and what they'd do if it did. Many of the royal family members have their funeral plans down pat and they've even been practiced. That's how they could put together the public funeral for Diana so quickly. They used the Queen Mum's "Operation Tay Bridge" plan and just altered it a bit to fit Diana, Princess of Wales.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/roya...ilip-prince-charles-diana-windsor-castle-fire

Another thing I remember very clearly, when Philip retired from public duties, a lot of emphasis was put on "Team Windsor" going forward. The "Firm" is a team that works in service to the people. They don't go out and schmooze big deep pockets for donations but rather work to bring attention to causes and organizations and issues that need to be known to the people. They do have rich donors from all over the world but they also too draw in people that not only need the services that the royal family highlight but also join in to support those causes in a lot of ways.

 

[Erin9]

May I ask where it's set in stone about the PoW "slimming" down the Monarchy, lopping off HRH's etc? I've only seen conjecture, and speculation not facts.

IMO- it’s one of those things that they’re not outright saying, but you can see coming anyway based on what is and is not happening.

Louise and James do not use the HRH style that they’re entitled to, unlike Beatrice and Eugenie. A decade made a difference in expectations.

Beatrice and Eugenie, despite the HRH, are not working royals. Unlike male line grandchildren of the monarch in other generations, such as the Queen’s cousins.

Things have clearly changed. They’re saying it without saying it IMO.

 

[Mbruno]

Its nonsense. If Meghan felt he was being deprived of a title becuase of his racail origins why did she and Harry deprive him of his courtesy title....

Unlike gender, race was never a criterion for the use of titles in the British royal family. it surprises me that some American commentators are trying to insert the struggle for civil rights in the United States into the debate on royal titles in the United Kingdom when the former has nothing to do with the latter.

 

[KrissyM]

Nothing about Charles' reign is set in stone as it's yet to be.

You made my point for me. Theoretically there might be a slimmed down monarchy. But it might be smoke and mirrors. Kind of like the whole "Princess Consort" nonsense.

 

[AC21091968]

My theory is... There was a fit/temper tantrum sort of situation - "if he doesn't get an HRH he will not get anything!" from the Sussexes, to which the Palace officials said "sure, no problem" and that was it

Unfortunately they seem like the kind of people who wants to get whatever they want, whenever they want it, however they want it. Especially in light of recent informations from sources that before he "cut them off", Charles has given them a reasonable amount of money (in the hundreds thousands mark) to fund their living situation. Which, of course, would never pay for the $14 milion mansion in Hollywood, so they were furious.

While BRF is an international brand, their focus is mostly on UK/Commonwealth countries. I don't see how US history is important to them while giving the titles, though I do understand people in the US can have an America-centric point of view.

The whole title discussion is basically a non-issue in the UK and European countries with monarchies. The people there understand how it works, so they understand why that decision was made.

And I could argue that this is very much about the feelings - the Sussexes hurt feelings, to be exact. Without it there would be no fuss, no issue, nothing, nada. And pragmatism is having less people with HRHs in the BRF - especially after experiences with Beatrice and Eugenie (and Andrew, who for so long pushed his daughters into the spotlight, fought for their place as working royals, and so on).

The row about Archie's title certainly does came across like a tantrum to me.

I remembered a post (but I couldn't find it) saying that Harry & Meghan are behaving like children who did not get to have the type of cake they wanted. And when the parents get the cake (that the children did not like), the children refuse to have a slice, because it was not the one they wanted it.

If this post was made by you, I apologise in advance for taking or even stealing your ideas

I agree with you that the Commonwealth countries are the Royal Family's main focus.

 

[Hallo girl]

The row about Archie's title certainly does came across like a tantrum to me.

I remembered a post (but I couldn't find it) saying that Harry & Meghan are behaving like children who did not get to have the type of cake they wanted. And when the parents get the cake (that the children did not like), the children refuse to have a slice, because it was not the one they wanted it.

If this post was made by you, I apologise in advance for taking or even stealing your ideas

I would agree, all the carry on at the birth then the christening. Public told he was a private citizen and as such no photographs or details.
Looking back that was a bit of foot stamping. It is all so obvious now.

 

[Osipi]

However, would the risks be equal. In my own one-light town people are willing to start trouble with interracial couples. (despicable but true) it only takes one crazy on the either side of the racial divide to do something awful. IMO security worries are very real worldwide.

In this world today, those kind of risks exist in every strata of society whether one is a prince or a pauper or American or Australian. There is no guaranteed cure or prevention for it. We learned that in this world we live in, no matter who we are, no matter where we live, no one is 100% secure and safe. 9/11 and 7/7 among other world shaking events have taught us that.

 

[KrissyM]

I agree, but better an ounce of prevention vs. a pound of cure.

 

[Curryong]

Harry arranged for flowers to be laid on his mother’s grave for this Mother’s Day (UK).


https://people.com/royals/prince-harry-princess-diana-flowers-uk-mothers-day/

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Okay this is my first real 'opinion' rather than just playing devil's advocate. Putting on my CJ Cregg hat, if I was an advisor, the minute I heard The Sussex's were expecting I'd sit down with the Queen and this would be the scene...

"Ma'am, I strongly urge you to re-write the LP's to say that starting from this birth all Great-grandchildren on the Monarch are automatically granted HRH unless specifically refused by their parents,"

"Why?" Her Majesty would reasonably ask.

"Ma'am, if you don't, someone, somewhere could and likely would say that this child isn't given it because of his ethnic makeup."

Possibly Her Majesty would say "But that's untrue, and ridiculous. The rules were made in 1917."

"That's correct ma'am. However, in 1917 people of color were lynched in the US and couldn't even use the same lavatory until the late 60's. Someone will bring it up, and the only way not to have a horse in that race, is to cancel the race. This is the world we live in now."

The royal title rules made in 1917 do not discriminate based on race or color in any form. They are available to read in their entirety at the following link:

https://www.heraldica.org/topics/britain/prince_highness_docs.htm#1917_2

George the Fifth by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and of the British Dominions beyond the Seas, King, Defender of the Faith To all to whom these presents shall come Greeting: Whereas Her late Majesty Queen Victoria did by Her Letters Patent dated the thirtieth day of January in the twenty seventh year of Her Reign declare her Royal Pleasure as to the style and title of the Princes and Princesses of the Royal Family in the manner in the said Letters Patent particularly mentioned And whereas we deem it expedient that the said Letters Patent should be extended and amended and that the styles and titles to be borne by the Princes and Princesses of the Royal Family should be henceforth established defined and limited in manner hereinafter declared Now Know Ye that We of our especial grace certain knowledge and mere motion do hereby declare our Royal Will and Pleasure that the children of any Sovereign of these Realms and the children of the sons of any such Sovereign and the eldest living son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales shall have and at all times hold and enjoy the style title or attribute of Royal Highness with their titular dignity of Prince or Princess prefixed to their respective Christian names or with their other titles of honour And We do further declare our Royal Will and Pleasure that save as aforesaid the style title or attribute of Royal Highness Highness or Serene Highness and the titular dignity of Prince or Princess shall not henceforth be assumed or borne by any descendent of any Sovereign of these Realms excepting always any such descendant who at the date of these Letters Patent holds or bears any right to any such style degree attribute or titular dignity in pursuance of any Letters Patent granted by Ourselves or any of Our Royal Predecessors and still remaining unrevoked it being Our Royal Will and Pleasure that the grandchildren of the sons of any such Sovereign in the direct male line (save only the eldest living son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales) shall have and enjoy in all occasions the style and title enjoyed by the children of Dukes of these Our Realms Our Will and Pleasure further is that Our Earl Marshal of England or his deputy for the time being do cause these our Letters Patent or the enrolment thereof to be recorded in Our College of Arms to the end that Our officers of Arms and all others may take due notice thereof. In Witness whereof We have caused these Our Letters to be made Patent Witness Ourself at Westminster the thirtieth day of November in the eighth year of Our reign.

By Warrant under the King's Sign Manual.
Schuster.

(Original letters patent, National Archives, HO 125/15. See also College of Arms, ms. I78/25.)

Whitehall, 11th December, 1917.
The KING has been pleased by Letters Patent under the Great Seal of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, bearing date the 30th ultimo, to define the styles and titles to be borne henceforth by members of the Royal Family. It is declared by the Letters Patent that the children of any Sovereign of the United Kingdom and the children of the sons of any such Sovereign and the eldest living son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales shall have and at all times hold and enjoy the style, title or attribute of Royal Highness with their titular dignity of Prince or Princess prefixed to their respective Christian names or with their other titles of honour; that save as aforesaid the titles of Royal Highness, Highness or Serene Highness, and the titular dignity of Prince and Princess shall cease except those titles already granted and remaining unrevoked; and that the grandchildren of the sons of any such Sovereign in the direct male line (save only the eldest living son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales) shall have the style and title enjoyed by the children of Dukes.

(London Gazette, issue 30428, Dec. 14, 1917, p. 2.)​

 

[Curryong]

Stranger from Ohio found on Meghan and Harry’s grounds TWICE. Was finally arrested by police.

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/20...ia-estate-was-twice-invaded-over-the-holidays

 

[US Royal Watcher]

May I ask where it's set in stone about the PoW "slimming" down the Monarchy, lopping off HRH's etc? I've only seen conjecture, and speculation not facts.

It is not set in stone but Meghan's comments during the interview confirm it. If not, what else was she talking about?