The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 1: September-December 2020


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It's simply not damned if they do and damned if they don't. Most posters on the forum do not object Harry and Meghan paying tribute to ex-serviceman on Remembrance Sunday. What they do object is the sheer number of photographs (7 in total) of Harry and Meghan in the Los Angeles National Cemetery. Had the photos been in similar format as these politicians, the response would have been different. Apologies for quoting myself on post #1040 with some edits.



Some of these photographs were probably not taken by photographers. George Spencer-Churchill, Marquess of Blandford (heir to the Duke of Marlborough) did not post photos of himself at all, but silhouettes of fallen soldiers and wreaths on the gardens of Blenheim Palace.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CHTM43YgFN3/

Some of the social media comments (that I have read) towards Arthur Edwards from the "Sussex Squads" have been ludicrous. Dare I say these comments were much worse than most posts in this forum. They actually compared Harry's plea in laying a wreath on personal behalf during the Remembrance service to Arthur Edwards laying a wreath behalf of The Sun readers at the end of the service (where members of the public were free to do so).
It has nothing to do with the number of photos. When the news of BP refusing to lay a wreath in Harry's behalf broke. The critics said he should go lay one on his own. When he did- they found something else to criticize -the photos. Even in this thread alone the critics are divided on the number of photos or whether he should even released photos at all.

Whatever they had done the critics would've criticized. Same story different day.
 
A lot of us here in Britain & elsewhere have tried patiently to explain our disquiet at the duke's actions but it seems that some people just don't want to listen.

Seemingly they know best.
 
This is an opinion forum. None of us holds THE TRUTH in illuminated letters in our grasp. And everyone has an opinion on Harry and Meghan and their actions regarding Remembrance Day. Some people don't agree with them and some do. Some can't stand their actions, some understand them. That's life, surely.
 
Its clear people fall in to three camps - nothing they do will ever be right, everything they do is always right and those of us in the middle who are just trying to work out what the heck is going on.

I actually though this was a discussion forum not just a place to express our opinions as if they are bound to be right and agreed with always. I know when I first started posting on here almost 10 years ago my opinion of so many things were different and have been informed by high quality, knowledgable, often emotionless, discussion. It would help if people were allowed to express their views and opinions without having it quoted back and blasted as "wrong" based purely on another posters opinions.

This is very much an issue which will divide people; it depends on if you see what HM, Charles, William and co at the Cenotaph as a mere PR exercise every year or if you believe it is something more. If you see what the RF do as nothing more than a photoshoot then of course what H&M have done is fine. As is often the case with H&M its not the principal of what they do - observing remembrance day - that is the issue but the way it is executed that raises eyebrows - done with a celebrity photographer in tow with a focus on H&M in every picture and timed to overshadow HM and the national service at the Cenotaph.
 
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Everything that people do has nuances and shades of grey. You can believe in the concept of Remembrance Sunday and the Royal Family's attendance there at the Cenotaph (something btw that Harry did as his Royal duty year after year) without also then believing that what Harry and Meghan tried to do in LA as intrinsically wrong and a PR exercise and trying to usurp the Royal Family's role etc etc.

And I am glad that you also believe that attacking others on this thread by quoting things back at them because of the posters' opinion is unhelpful. As a long term follower of Harry I have been trying to say that here for almost a year.
 
As is often the case with H&M its not the principal of what they do - observing remembrance day - that is the issue but the way it is executed that raises eyebrows - done with a celebrity photographer in tow with a focus on H&M in every picture and timed to overshadow HM and the national service at the Cenotaph.

This is the whole crux of the matter. I don't think that anyone disputes Harry's sincerity when it comes to supporting and working with the military. His past actions have proven that over and over again and he is to be commended for it.

The Sussex observance of Remembrance Day, in and of itself, is a wonderful gesture. Many people (and those that write articles) probably would have focused on Harry being "missing from the bunch" this year regardless of what happened. It definitely was the *execution* of how the Sussexes went about paying their respects is what threw the whole thing off and sent the wrong message.

Their dress, for example. They were dressed for the formality of a ceremonial event (even Meghan without a hat). Private visits and observances do not require "appropriate wardrobe". They dressed to draw the eye to them and most likely (I haven't checked) Meghan's fashion for that event garnered posts in her fashion threads along with what the Queen, Catherine, Sophie, Camilla and the other royal ladies in attendance at the Cenotaph wore.

It was so very OTT how it was staged. Sussexes being the prime focus of each and every photograph with the cemetery as a background. You don't see *any* of the British royal family "posing" at the Cenotaph. They were there to do something and that's what was photographed.

All in all, I'm still of the opinion that the whole optics of this observance by Harry and Meghan screamed of them saying, "We left royal life behind but we don't want to be left out and forgotten so here we are being inclusive of Remembrance Sunday events. Isn't that nice of us?"

It's not really what they did but how they did it. Wrong messages tend to stick with a reputation far longer than good deeds do. It's a shame that something like this actually overshadows Harry's work over the decades with his military comrades in arms.
 
When I wonder whether my perception of a Sussex happening is discolored, I usually look for a post by Osipi. No one has been more fair to this couple or provided more balanced takes, particularly this year.

The above post :previous: is again spot on.
 
Osipi as ever, spot on! It really is the execution of it that is the issue. Again I stand by what I said earlier - a picture of a the wreath or flowers after they had been placed would have sufficed and kept the focus on the reason for being there and not the people doing it.

I wonder if this is a "clash of cultures" between what is expected of the RF (and indeed some might say most people) and those advising H&M on their actions at the moment. It certainly suggests maximum PR is the aim of the game IMO. I just wonder if H&M are truly signed on to that or can't see how the many people will see it and take it.
 
I can understand where people are coming from with the unnecessaryness of the couple being in the photo, but one could also argue the same for the balcony appearance at the Cenotaph, and virtually any other time the royals have been photographed at funerals or memorial services. So the argument becomes less convincing.
 
I can understand where people are coming from with the unnecessaryness of the couple being in the photo, but one could also argue the same for the balcony appearance at the Cenotaph, and virtually any other time the royals have been photographed at funerals or memorial services. So the argument becomes less convincing.

They are at public events. Harry and Meghan just have to keep themselves relevant. Harry has a life long commitment to the military. That had nothing to do with this. This is like the things they do now, ill judged and a way to stay famous. Same with Diana photshoot. It just smacks of desperation.
 
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My English is too poor to express exactly what I felt when seeing the pictures,
and I really tried to avoid any news about this weird couple,
but my feeling is whenever I think they can't go lower they manage to surprise me in a negative way.
How can anybody pose on a cemetary?
What went wrong in Harry's education and upbringing that he does not even have a glimpse of decency?
Things can be done in private if honestly felt deeply emotional. I disagree with some here who still uphold H's past in the military as if this makes him something special or almost untouchable. Again he proofed he does not even understand the essentials, but is ready to use really every thing for publicity. 2020 we like to say "how dare you"!
Disgusting H&M, let's see what is next going downstairs (for I will try to ignore it as far as possible).
 
They are at public events. Harry and Meghan just have to keep themselves relevant. Harry has a life long commitment to the military. That had nothing to do with this. This is like ,or things they do now, ill judged and a way to stay famous.

Still the argument that they should have posted a photo of flowers instead of themselves to show they are involved speaks true for public events and official press release photos. The Cambridges shared photos and videos of themselves speaking privately this year and have done in the past too (yes, there were some videos of them speaking officially to veterans and other war survivors, but the point stands).

I'm also going to remind people of the actual photo in question:
http://www.noblesseetroyautes.com/w...n_the_cemetery_that_fea-a-2_1604904949850.jpg

The couple are photographed in a way where you can't see all of their faces from a distance and there is more focus on the graves of the war dead, from the way I saw it.
 
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Still the argument that they should have posted a photo of flowers instead of themselves to show they are involved speaks true for public events and official press release photos. The Cambridges shared photos and videos of themselves speaking privately this year and have done in the past too (yes, there were some videos of them speaking officially to veterans and other war survivors, but the point stands).

I'm also going to remind people of the actual photo in question:
http://www.noblesseetroyautes.com/w...n_the_cemetery_that_fea-a-2_1604904949850.jpg

The couple are photographed in a way where you can't see all of their faces from a distance and there is more focus on the graves of the war dead, from the way I saw it.

It doesnt really stand. The royals are trapped in a tripod of them, public works, media. Harry is not. He is not required to promote a country, it's works and celebrate its people. Two things are nothing alike. Harry had no one to promote but themselves.
 
Still the argument that they should have posted a photo of flowers instead of themselves to show they are involved speaks true for public events and official press release photos. The Cambridges shared photos and videos of themselves speaking privately this year and have done in the past too (yes, there were some videos of them speaking officially to veterans and other war survivors, but the point stands).

I'm also going to remind people of the actual photo in question:
http://www.noblesseetroyautes.com/w...n_the_cemetery_that_fea-a-2_1604904949850.jpg

The couple are photographed in a way where you can't see all of their faces from a distance and there is more focus on the graves of the war dead, from the way I saw it.


I believe that the difference between Harry and Meghan's photos and those of the Queen, Cambridges, etc., is that the latter are official working royals, so the public wants to see them at work (and at play, sometimes inappropriately). Harry and Meghan are not official representatives of the Crown.



It may be that the photos were Harry and Meghan's response to the exclusion of "Harry's wreath" from the Remembrance Sunday ceremony. I understand that none of the BRF actually lay wreaths on their own behalf; it wouldn't surprise me if the Palace courtiers told Harry "no", not because of spite, but because it would be so irregular for him to lay a private wreath. Rightly or wrongly, these folks are not known for their flexibilty.



If Harry's request and the Palace decision were leaked by the Palace, then I would call that mean-spirited. I am not, however, convinced that Harry and Meghan did not leak the story themselves. If they were not the source, I can understand it if they were annoyed (at the very least, they like to control their own narrative; at the most, Harry might have been hurt by the perceived slight). Let's remember that even if the Palace was correct in its refusal of Harry's request, the relationship between the couple and the Palace is not good, so Harry may not have been receptive to a logical explanation.



What a mess. I don't think Harry and Meghan are helping the situation and they may be deliberately making it worse, but it is also possible that the Palace Establishment likes to "pour fuel on the fire."
 
Harry had no one to promote but himself? He must have lied then, when he spoke very movingly in the podcast Declassified about what Remembrance Day and serving with his comrades has always meant to him.

He could not get back to the UK because of Covid and wouldn't have been part of the Remembrance Sunday observations anyway if he had been there. He is in California so he went to a national cemetery (with Meghan) to commemorate fallen comrades. I believe he was thinking of them in that cemetery. I also believe he was sincere when he placed flowers on two graves of Commonwealth servicemen who never came home, like some of those he served with in Afghanistan.

And I also believe that when he placed that wreath in the cemetery Harry wasn't thinking of promotion of himself, but of Remembrance Sunday in Britain, and of men and women serving in a war zone and facing death as part of their job even today. And what's more, I don't believe those feelings will ever leave him.
 
Harry had no one to promote but himself? He must have lied then, when he spoke very movingly in the podcast Declassified about what Remembrance Day and serving with his comrades has always meant to him.

He could not get back to the UK because of Covid and wouldn't have been part of the Remembrance Sunday observations anyway if he had been there. He is in California so he went to a national cemetery (with Meghan) to commemorate fallen comrades. I believe he was thinking of them in that cemetery. I also believe he was sincere when he placed flowers on two graves of Commonwealth servicemen who never came home, like some of those he served with in Afghanistan.

And I also believe that when he placed that wreath in the cemetery Harry wasn't thinking of promotion of himself, but of Remembrance Sunday in Britain, and of men and women serving in a war zone and facing death as part of their job even today. And what's more, I don't believe those feelings will ever leave him.

He was not promoting the armed forces. That is no longer his job. He was advertising his support of remembrance day...not remembrance day.
 
Many many people in all walks of life both promote and support the armed forces whenever they can, and don't regard it as 'a job'. I don't believe Harry was advertising anything, except his support for those serving in the armed forces, veterans and the Fallen of both wars when he laid those floral tributes.
 
Prince Harry along with Bruce Springsteen, Jon Stewart, as well as Sheryl Crow, Tiffany Haddish, Brad Paisley, Ray Romano, and Patti Scialfa will appear in the Virtual ‘Stand Up for Heroes’ Event. This event will be air on November 18th at 9:00 pm EST on ABC News Live, TikTok, Facebook Watch, Cheddar, Twitch, and Armed Forces Network.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/...ar-virtual-stand-up-for-heroes-event-1087877/
 
I can understand where people are coming from with the unnecessaryness of the couple being in the photo, but one could also argue the same for the balcony appearance at the Cenotaph, and virtually any other time the royals have been photographed at funerals or memorial services. So the argument becomes less convincing.

Still the argument that they should have posted a photo of flowers instead of themselves to show they are involved speaks true for public events and official press release photos. The Cambridges shared photos and videos of themselves speaking privately this year and have done in the past too (yes, there were some videos of them speaking officially to veterans and other war survivors, but the point stands).

I'm also going to remind people of the actual photo in question:
http://www.noblesseetroyautes.com/w...n_the_cemetery_that_fea-a-2_1604904949850.jpg

The couple are photographed in a way where you can't see all of their faces from a distance and there is more focus on the graves of the war dead, from the way I saw it.

The big and essential difference is that they, by their own choice, are no longer representing the British royal family. They are, therefore, in a completely different position than 'the royals' that actually have a role to play in the British monarchy.

If they wanted to be able to do 'comparable' things to the rest of the family they should have remained within the firm and would have been perfectly welcome to do so. However, right now, they only are representing themselves - just like any other ordinary citizen. And it's quite presumptuous to organize own remembrance (even place a wreath on a stand - but not truly remembering but making a more general statement about veterans and those currently serving) as if you are your own royal family - but of a competing branch.

As private citizens, some kind of message on their social media account acknowledging Remembrance Sunday would be completely in line with what others, especially those with a link to the military, might do. Staging a 'personal remembrance' with a photographer and releasing those pictures to the press is not.
 
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Harry had no one to promote but himself? He must have lied then, when he spoke very movingly in the podcast Declassified about what Remembrance Day and serving with his comrades has always meant to him.

He could not get back to the UK because of Covid and wouldn't have been part of the Remembrance Sunday observations anyway if he had been there. He is in California so he went to a national cemetery (with Meghan) to commemorate fallen comrades. I believe he was thinking of them in that cemetery. I also believe he was sincere when he placed flowers on two graves of Commonwealth servicemen who never came home, like some of those he served with in Afghanistan.

And I also believe that when he placed that wreath in the cemetery Harry wasn't thinking of promotion of himself, but of Remembrance Sunday in Britain, and of men and women serving in a war zone and facing death as part of their job even today. And what's more, I don't believe those feelings will ever leave him.
I would sincerely hope so but why did he think of bringing a photographer with hem to do so. He clearly wasn't only thinking about Remembrance Sunday in that instance but very much also about showing the world that he cared. That's what made it about them... Not them visiting per se.
 
I really have to think that someone outside of Harry and Meghan did all the footwork to set this up. For one, I seriously doubt that Harry, as the idea formed, knew there was an United States National Cemetery in West Los Angeles although Meghan may have. Then to line up a professional photographer to go along for the ride to capture it for posterity. Its my educated guess that the Sussex "people" put this together not really realizing the effect it was going to have in the long run. I think its possible that the nuances of what the royal family does on official occasions escapes the American frame of mind.

I don't doubt that Harry's intents and his thoughts were sincere and perhaps he was in the dark as to how this whole thing would pan out and went along with the plans. Harry, even after all this time, still is a stranger in a strange land and pretty much still unfamiliar with the "celeb" PR spin doctors whose only thought is to focus on their clients and their clients alone. The Sussexes may not even have imagined that the feedback from their observance could and would go horribly wrong and just make things look worse for them.

Someone suggested earlier that perhaps they should employ someone among their staff that is very cognizant of the nuances of how the British do things and perceive things to kind of be there for checks and balances when their PR company (American) plans things for them. It might do them some good.
 
A bit of light-hearted and silly news. Collins dictionary has listed "Megxit" as one of many word of the year. The words that made into the list were mostly related to the COVID-19 pandemic.

Language Lovers: The year of lockdown
https://blog.collinsdictionary.com/language-lovers/the-year-of-lockdown/

The Times and Tatler have picked this news up.

Words of the year: Meghan and Harry have left but Megxit is in dictionary to stay
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...but-megxit-is-in-dictionary-to-stay-2zvwkkhqf

Why ‘Megxit’ is in the dictionary for good as it becomes an official word of the year
Collins Dictionary announces the words that have become firmly ingrained in our lexicon this year
https://www.tatler.com/article/megxit-word-of-the-year-collins-dictionary-2020

I agree with some posters that "Megxit" implies that Meghan made the decision to leave as working royal, rather than with Harry. Like the articles have mentioned, the term "half-rhymes" with Brexit, which makes it prominent. Some political commentators have made several jokes on linking Megxit and Brexit early this year. Personally, I found them very funny. :lol:
https://twitter.com/JohnJCrace/status/1216785858428383237

A more accurate term that describes Harry and Meghan leaving the working firm would be "Sussexit", but I personally found it harder to pronounced. :blink: :bounce: ?
 
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I can understand where people are coming from with the unnecessaryness of the couple being in the photo, but one could also argue the same for the balcony appearance at the Cenotaph, and virtually any other time the royals have been photographed at funerals or memorial services. So the argument becomes less convincing.

The royals on the balcony at the Cenotaph are at an official event, acting in support of the monarch. They’re present as part of the British Royal Family and are photographed as such. Harry and Meghan were acting as private individuals at the cemetery but they paid a photographer to come along and take pictures of them trying their best to visually represent the official nature of the British ceremony.

It would be completely different if Harry had come back to participate in the official ceremony. Or if the British government had asked him to represent the Queen at some sort of official ceremony in the US. But all these latest pictures show are two people (who could not have made it more clear that traditional, official royal life wasn’t for them) representing no one but themselves.

The current senior working royals will occasionally show activities of a “private” nature with the understanding that they’re still acting as public entities, and then only as relatively rare occurrences that always dovetail with their official duties.
 
For me the difference with the photos is that the photos of the balcony at the Cenotaph are taken and published by the media with no input by the Royals.

I do believe the media place far too much emphasis on what Kate is wearing at this event which is not appropriate but the Royals have no control over this.

The photos from the cemetery were taken by a photographer chosen by Harry and Meghan who chose which images to release and therefore they made a conscious decision to release images of themselves holding hands walking through a cemetery.

As I said in a previous post I have no issue with them wanting to mark the occasion but believe they should have issued a photo of the wreath with a message 24 hours after the Cenotaph state occasion, and perhaps the one photo of them placing the wreath but not the other photos which were just pure PR and distasteful.
 
I really have to think that someone outside of Harry and Meghan did all the footwork to set this up. For one, I seriously doubt that Harry, as the idea formed, knew there was an United States National Cemetery in West Los Angeles although Meghan may have. Then to line up a professional photographer to go along for the ride to capture it for posterity. Its my educated guess that the Sussex "people" put this together not really realizing the effect it was going to have in the long run. I think its possible that the nuances of what the royal family does on official occasions escapes the American frame of mind.

I don't doubt that Harry's intents and his thoughts were sincere and perhaps he was in the dark as to how this whole thing would pan out and went along with the plans. Harry, even after all this time, still is a stranger in a strange land and pretty much still unfamiliar with the "celeb" PR spin doctors whose only thought is to focus on their clients and their clients alone. The Sussexes may not even have imagined that the feedback from their observance could and would go horribly wrong and just make things look worse for them.

Someone suggested earlier that perhaps they should employ someone among their staff that is very cognizant of the nuances of how the British do things and perceive things to kind of be there for checks and balances when their PR company (American) plans things for them. It might do them some good.

I’m sorry, I can’t absolve Harry and Meghan of responsibility. Even I believed this to be true, they would still have approved. However, I believe this was their idea...pulled off by their helpers, perhaps, but their idea.

I don’t think they should have issued a photo, period, even of the wreath. What for?
 
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I’m sorry, I can’t absolve Harry and Meghan of responsibility. Even I believed this to be true, they would still have approved. However, I believe this was their idea...pulled off by their helpers, perhaps, but their idea.

I don’t think they should have issued a photo, period, even of the wreath. What for?

Just looking at this from all angles and coming up with a lot of maybes. We'll never really know how it came about and what their intentions were behind doing this.

Things aren't always as they seem to be sometimes. ?
 
There's a difference between attending the cenotaph service and being on TV/in the papers and organising a photoshoot of yourself laying a wreath for you own benefit.

It's one of the biggest days in the UK's collective consciousness it's more than just Veterans Day, the closest we come to a shared sacred day really and they're deliberately making it about themselves because they know that they need that official royal veneer to be anything more than a youngish rich and famous couple.

I'm not a big fan of the Sussexes currently but it's not about that. I'd say the same thing if Eugenie had posted pictures of herself doing the same thing somewhere, stop trying to draw attention to you because you weren't invited to the real thing.

It's the equivalent of a politician who poses at a church without attending the service inside. Performance piety for popularity.

I don't know who's idea it was but I can't lay the blame entire on their new PR company, there are still a lot of warning bells that should have rung with Harry and in cases like this the clients also have a say in which photos get released. He is also aware of how spin doctors work because the BRF do use them. This isn't the first time something like this has happen (see other PR "royal visits") but it is the most annoying.

I'm rolling my eyes about him joining the All Star Special because OF Course he is, but whatever, that was an already organised celebrity event he's joining, not a staged event where the emphasis should be anywhere but him but he's deliberately taken it over.
 
I don't know who's advising them or what they're thinking, but I wish they could get some good advice from someone. This latest stunt comes very soon after Harry's unwise comments about American politics.
 
A bit of light-hearted and silly news. Collins dictionary has listed "Megxit" as one of many word of the year. The words that made into the list were mostly related to the COVID-19 pandemic.

Language Lovers: The year of lockdown
https://blog.collinsdictionary.com/language-lovers/the-year-of-lockdown/

The Times and Tatler have picked this news up.

Words of the year: Meghan and Harry have left but Megxit is in dictionary to stay
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...but-megxit-is-in-dictionary-to-stay-2zvwkkhqf

Why ‘Megxit’ is in the dictionary for good as it becomes an official word of the year
Collins Dictionary announces the words that have become firmly ingrained in our lexicon this year
https://www.tatler.com/article/megxit-word-of-the-year-collins-dictionary-2020

I agree with some posters that "Megxit" implies that Meghan made the decision to leave as working royal, rather than with Harry. Like the articles have mentioned, the term "half-rhymes" with Brexit, which makes it prominent. Some political commentators have made several jokes on linking Megxit and Brexit early this year. Personally, I found them very funny. :lol:
https://twitter.com/JohnJCrace/status/1216785858428383237

A more accurate term that describes Harry and Meghan leaving the working firm would be "Sussexit", but I personally found it harder to pronounced. :blink: :bounce: ?

I personally find nothing funny about “Megxit” since it was coined long before they exited by the very vocally racist side of social media hoping Harry would divorce Meghan. And by that I truly mean a very ugly side who used gross terms like the “N word”. So the UK media using it just cemented thoughts for many...
 
How would you guys feel if Harry and Meghan attended the Inauguration and inaugural Ball?

Just throwing it out there.
 
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