The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 1: September-December 2020

[Claire]

They also left because tehy wanted to make a "professional income". And harry left because he was stressed out and could not hack reporters and pressmen following him...

Yep - another thing they need to clarify. How they are going to make money to support themselves and what percentage goes to the charity. They will have to show a clear distinction of when they are making money for themselves and then for the charity. This will have to be clearly documented and published as well. For the IRS and potential donors.
But the press will have a field day. This is very difficult, most celebrities fail this. Which is why they don't request donation and simply became their only backer in their own charity.

 

[Curryong]

So Carolyn Bartholomew lied then?

We don't know what Carolyn Bartholomew said or didn't say, asked or didn't ask, as Rachel Johnson in the original article didn't put what she is supposed to have uttered in quotes. We don't know that she said anything at all. It reads like a bit of baseless gossip to me, which the tabloids leapt on. All that is known is that the Clooneys have denied they said anything of the sort. Why would THEY lie?

 

[Denville]

I completely agree. This is a very difficult time for many people, and there's a lot that Harry could do. With Remembrance Day/Veterans' Day coming up, maybe some elderly war veterans who are nervous of going out much under the current circumstances would appreciate a phone call from a famous face who's seen active service. There are all sorts of things he could do, which would genuinely help people.

He doesn't even have to make it known who he is, if he took up some kind of voluntary work phoning people. There are things he could do that would be private, so he wouldn't be being watched by tabloids or goggled at... and so would not cause him stress...and little as I like harry nowadays, I think he was genuinely good hearted and willing to engage with people, esp fellow soldiers.... so its something he should be good at.

 

[Nice Nofret]

So Carolyn Bartholomew lied then?

No, probably the media lied ... they are quite inventive with stories .... One shouldn't believe to much of what is written in the gutterpress

 

[evolvingdoors]

Read the GQ transcript...
Hutchinson was amazing! great deep analysis on the topics!

The more Harry and Meghan do these kind of interviews the more they show their total ignorance on the topics they are discussing. I saw somewhere someone mentioned they are trying to appeal to `air headed, Kardashian like` good hearted white liberals who like the shallow inspirational stuff cause it makes them feel and look good that they are obviously not racist/ , and their black fan base. And yea, I agree.

People of minority, those with actual understanding on bias and discrimination, deep thinkers about racial issues and society and how it all works- from either side of the political map.. see the Susexes for the shallow ignorant joke that they are.
I am far more left wing than Meghan probably is, I am also a minority (in the US at least), and I find myself in this following predicament every time I hear them talk about important complex issues: ?? and than I want to scream: shut up!!!


From him saying Men suffered the worst during lockdown, to saying he only understood racism (which he doesn't!) and unconscious bias because of his extremely white adjunct wife.
And still, no apology for his own behavior.
This interview showed once again Harry's ignorance and his lack of ability to see and understand these complex issues. and his inability to take ownership of his own actions by blaming everyone and everything else!

...

That's a really interesting observation. He just keeps going on about his favorite topic over 'bias' - while mr Hutchinson is explaining to him, it is a much broader problem and he isn't able or willing to hear it... or engage with that thought. Harry seems to be able to only speak from his own perspective, which is mainly Meghan's perspective (just before he specifically explains how he never learned about such issues and only understood it because of his wife) - who I'm afraid might have had the tendency to interpret most criticism as 'racism' or at least 'unconscious bias'; while some if it surely was but others clearly not.

"explains how he never learned about such issues and only understood it because of his wife"
Didn't he have a anti racism classes in the army after his racist words.

...

 

[Claire]

Hutchinson was amazing! great deep analysis on the topics!

Agreed - just need to understand why GQ needed Harry here. What did he bring to the party? Why couldn't a real journalist do the interview?
Does GQ need the tabloid press coverage ?

 

[Roderick]

No, probably the media lied ... they are quite inventive with stories .... One shouldn't believe to much of what is written in the gutterpress

Fair enough but in my experience the so-called gutterpress normally doesn't name names when it invents stories. It's usually a 'source' or 'someone close to the couple'. I haven't seen any denial from Carolyn as one might expect from someone who has been completely misquoted but perhaps she has let it go.

 

[RandyDrx]

He doesn't even have to make it known who he is, if he took up some kind of voluntary work phoning people. There are things he could do that would be private, so he wouldn't be being watched by tabloids or goggled at... and so would not cause him stress...and little as I like harry nowadays, I think he was genuinely good hearted and willing to engage with people, esp fellow soldiers.... so its something he should be good at.

I think it's funny how Harry said that he hated the media now, he certainly didn't hate them when he needed them to do interviews and documentaries about his charities a few years ago. In fact, I think he has been in more documentaries than William.

 

[Sandy345]

I agree, I think Harry missed the golden opportunity to change the critics' (or even cynics') view of Meghan and himself, where they are pushing equality when it suits their agenda. Had Harry at least engaged or even acknowledge that white working class boys are one of the lowest admission to university and underperformance in school, he could have turn things around of being balance and not bias of just pushing one particular side of argument/agenda. On the other hand, I could understand that he is uncomfortable with class, given that he is from a very financially privilege and well socially connected background. And he probably does not want to be perceived as a champaign socialist like some celebrities and politicians.



This is what I felt as well, Harry seems to be speaking Meghan's opinions that does not necessary applied to British society. His speech appeared to be "imported" from America. Again, Meghan probably does not understand that class (or SES) is the one of the biggest division of UK society, not just race. She either does not know or deliberately ignore (as it not suit her agenda) ongoing issues within white working class. Cynics and critics would certainly believe it's the latter, given that at one point Meghan was pushing the decolonisation of university curriculum and tackle the dominance of "male, pale and stale academics", or even "white privilege" and "male "privilege".

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...at-male-pale-and-stale-universities-p8znzs5gl
https://www.theguardian.com/educati...ime-to-get-behind-decolonising-the-curriculum



Again, I agree with you that Harry's speech appeared to be lecturing and preaching ideas primarily from Meghan. The term "unconscious bias" has been very controversial in UK politics. Apparently up to 40 Conservative MPs refuses to take the Unconscious Bias Training, which is voluntary. Some of their responses were very strong to say the least. I assumed some Conservative Party members would feel the same.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-54282685
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...to-refuse-unconscious-bias-training-sfnrm895g

Edit: I have included Somebody's quote and unconscious bias

I don't think it's necessarily his repeating Meghan's ideas. Harry I think has his own ideas and proactiveness and has come up with them long before he even dated Meghan. It could be that he agrees with her opinions and now it is their opinions.

 

[JessRulz]

This thread has been cleaned up. The following topics have been removed as off-topic, or repetitive:

- Royal education and intelligence
- The make-up of Harry and Meghan's wedding guest list

Can we also please keep discussions focused on the Sussexes, with direct links to them.

We also ask that discussions about locations where Harry and Meghan may live in the future/why they decided on LA cease, as they are nothing but repeating what everyone already said back at the start of 2020 (and again and again over the months that followed). Same goes for Meghan's previous "celebrity lifestyle" and her "level of celebrity".

Posts on the above topics will be removed.

 

[adjovie]

We don't know what Carolyn Bartholomew said or didn't say, asked or didn't ask, as Rachel Johnson in the original article didn't put what she is supposed to have uttered in quotes. We don't know that she said anything at all. It reads like a bit of baseless gossip to me, which the tabloids leapt on. All that is known is that the Clooneys have denied they said anything of the sort. Why would THEY lie?

Couldn't have said it better!

 

[Ista]

Several off topic posts about titles for Archie have been deleted. Further questions and discussion can be taken to Questions about British Styles and Titles

https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f23/questions-about-british-styles-and-titles-258-268.html

 

[muriel]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/prince-harrys-plea-to-lay-cenotaph-wreath-denied-t2wtght2m

I understand a request by Harry that a wreath be laid on his behalf at the Cenotaph was declined. I think that is very much the right decision, as he is no longer a serving member of the BRF.

 

[Heavs]

I understand why he would have wanted that, clearly. However there were only working members of the BRF involved today (no Andrew, Bea, Eugenie for the HRHs) and it would be another sign that they were doing "half in, half out" by the back door so to speak.

The article said that the Queen wasn't made aware of his request, which is interesting.

 

[Mbruno]

Is it true, as the Daily Mail is reporting, that Prince Harry asked to have a wreath laid on his behalf, but his request was turned down?

 

[Iluvbertie]

Is it true, as the Daily Mail is reporting, that Prince Harry asked to have a wreath laid on his behal, but his request was turned down?

The DM picked up the story from The Times.

Whether true or not it does make sense ... non-working royals don't lay wreaths. Prince Michael of Kent has more service in the army than Harry and he never lays a wreath. This is simply protocol, I suspect.

 

[Osipi]

I understand why he would have wanted that, clearly. However there were only working members of the BRF involved today (no Andrew, Bea, Eugenie for the HRHs) and it would be another sign that they were doing "half in, half out" by the back door so to speak.

The article said that the Queen wasn't made aware of his request, which is interesting.

I am just guessing here bit my thoughts are that the request by Harry would have been made to the Duke of Norfolk who is responsible for how state occasions such as Remembrance Sunday goes. It was a no brainer that Harry's request would have been turned down. In fact, I'd go as far as to say it would have been handled like any other private citizen of the UK making the same request.

The Royal Family lays their wreaths not as individual members of the family but for the people of the UK. Harry no longer represents anyone in the UK other than himself and his family.

 

[QueenMathilde]

I'd agree that Harry shouldn't have a wreath laid for him if it's supposed to be done by working members of the royal family.

 

[Heavs]

I am just guessing here bit my thoughts are that the request by Harry would have been made to the Duke of Norfolk who is responsible for how state occasions such as Remembrance Sunday goes. It was a no brainer that Harry's request would have been turned down. In fact, I'd go as far as to say it would have been handled like any other private citizen of the UK making the same request.

The Royal Family lays their wreaths not as individual members of the family but for the people of the UK. Harry no longer represents anyone in the UK other than himself and his family.

Yes I understand, I was just commenting on the fact that the times included the phrase "the Queen was not made aware of his request".

The working royals lay wreaths both on behalf of the UK and whatever services they're representing but also their own behalf. For example this morning David Dimbleby commented that the POW was laying a wreath on behalf of the Queen which was on behalf of all the people of the UK and then laid a wreath "on his own behalf". An aide de Camp laid "on behalf the of DOE" personally, not for any previous military appointments he had.

However it makes sense that since Harry is no longer a working royal that a wreath is not laid officially on his behalf, just as no other non working or retired royal that wasn't the spouse of the sovereign had one laid.

Even those who are still working but not present due to COVID like Princess Alexandra and the Duke of Gloucester (who usually attends) didn't have one laid in their behalf.

If Harry wishes to make any personal remembrance that's up to him of course.

 

[Mbruno]

Yes I understand, I was just commenting on the fact that the times included the phrase "the Queen was not made aware of his request".

The working royals lay wreaths both on behalf of the UK and whatever services they're representing but also their own behalf. For example this morning David Dimbleby commented that the POW was laying a wreath on behalf of the Queen which was on behalf of all the people of the UK and then laid a wreath "on his own behalf". An aide de Camp laid "on behalf the of DOE" personally, not for any previous military appointments he had.

However it makes sense that since Harry is no longer a working royal that a wreath is not laid officially on his behalf, just as no other non working or retired royal that wasn't the spouse of the sovereign had one laid.

Even those who are still working but not present do to COVID like Princess Alexandra and the Duke of Gloucester (who usually attends) didn't have one laid in their behalf.

If Harry wishes to make any personal remembrance that's up to him of course.

What bothers me is Harry's have the cake and eat it attitude. He gave up on the UK and moved to the US where he is now a resident. But, at the same time, he wants to retain his military appointments in the UK and take part in ceremonial events like the Remembrance Day service, albeit by proxy.

 

[sophie25]

What bothers me is Harry's have the cake and eat it attitude. He gave up on the UK and moved to the US where he is now a resident. But, at the same time, he wants to retain his military appointments in the UK and take part in ceremonial events like the Remembrance Day service, albeit by proxy.

The working royal thing can be a bit vague as Prince Michael has attended the Cenotaph over the years either on a balcony or laying a wreath and he also has been given official military appointments by the Queen BUT I do agree with you about Harry. Prince Michael hasn't walked away from the royal family and has always been on call when the Queen has needed him (thus his GCVO award). Harry has stepped away and gone to live abroad so he cannot have it both ways.

 

[sophie25]

The DM picked up the story from The Times.

Whether true or not it does make sense ... non-working royals don't lay wreaths. Prince Michael of Kent has more service in the army than Harry and he never lays a wreath. This is simply protocol, I suspect.

Prince Michael actually has laid a wreath quite a few times over the years. The last time was in 2018 and last year he was on a balcony.

 

[Curryong]

I suppose this is the right thread?

Harry recently spoke to vets on their podcast Declassified and reminisced about what Remembrance Day means to him. In the light of his being refused a wreath at the Cenotaph in London, he will wear a poppy and remember the fallen from his home in California.

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2020/11/prince-harry-declassified-podcast-remembrance-sunday

 

[evolvingdoors]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/prince-harrys-plea-to-lay-cenotaph-wreath-denied-t2wtght2m

I understand a request by Harry that a wreath be laid on his behalf at the Cenotaph was declined. I think that is very much the right decision, as he is no longer a serving member of the BRF.

Why am I not surprised this is being leaked today of all days.. hasn't Roya been historically pro Sussex?

 

[Claire]

Harry can go buy a wreath and do his own cenotaph memorial at one of the many memorials around California. No doubt he can document it for a magazine or two.

 

[TLLK]

Harry can go buy a wreath and do his own cenotaph memorial at one of the many memorials around California. No doubt he can document it for a magazine or two.

I am sure that Prince Harry would be able to find a wreath and attend a Veteran's Day service on Wednesday 11/11/20 to honor the service of American Veterans.

 

[Durham]

Remembrance Day is surely just too important to be dragged into discussions about individual members of the royal family.

I think it would be appropriate to leave this for another day.

 

[Osipi]

I imagine it hit Harry right between the eyes just how "different" his life is now. I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that Harry's wish to lay a wreath by proxy at the Cenotaph was well meant and sincere as he does sincerely care and work passionately for veterans and I don't see that changing.

It isn't about Harry finding somewhere in the US to pay his respects. Its not about Harry wanting "half in, half out through the back door" but a gentle reminder that in so many ways, he can't go home again and have things how they were. I believe this will happen to Harry every now and then when things that he used to do that meant something to him can only be things of the past.

 

[muriel]

I imagine it hit Harry right between the eyes just how "different" his life is now. I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that Harry's wish to lay a wreath by proxy at the Cenotaph was well meant and sincere as he does sincerely care and work passionately for veterans and I don't see that changing.

It isn't about Harry finding somewhere in the US to pay his respects. Its not about Harry wanting "half in, half out through the back door" but a gentle reminder that in so many ways, he can't go home again and have things how they were. I believe this will happen to Harry every now and then when things that he used to do that meant something to him can only be things of the past.

Well sais, Osipi. I guess just a reminder of all the things he probably had not thought through, when he threw his toys out of the pram.

 

[Heavs]

I assume that Harry's request was sincerely meant.

I also think it's an example of wanting or maybe hoping for various "half-in, half-out" exceptions or not to put too fine a point on it, the Big Royal Occasions with Pomp And Circumstance. At least a little. And very possibly something they didn't think through or hoped would be allowed after a while.

Yes I do realise people like Prince Michael of Kent have laid wreaths before and (Bea and Eugenie sometimes attended with Andrew previously though didn't lay wreaths) and he isn't an official full time working royal, but he has never had so dramatic an exit from the family, complete with moving to a different country.

Perhaps if things had been handled differently it might have been possible, but as it stands, no. I'm glad it didn't as it would have completely overshadowed an already overshadowed but still very moving service in the media.

I hope he can find somewhere to lay his own wreath and possibly attend Remembrance/Veterans Day services in person or online if that is something he does want to do.