The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 1: September-December 2020

[Curryong]

The comment about British society is clearly about this latest broadcast in which it is painfully obvious that he either doesn't understand, or doesn't want to talk about, the point raised by Mr Hutchinson.

His lack of engagement on this topic speaks volumes about his superficiality.

He was an officer because of where he went to school. If he'd gone to the local comp he'd have been a squaddie. I wouldn't exaggerate his understanding of the lives of working class people because of his army service.

I wouldn't underestimate it either. It was clear from anecdotal evidence of those with whom Harry served that he didn't keep away from mixing with his men at all.
As well, he met many members of disadvantaged youth in his work with sport charities that helped specifically these groups.

 

[Durham]

I wouldn't underestimate it either. It was clear from anecdotal evidence of those with whom Harry served that he didn't keep away from mixing with his men at all.
As well, he met many members of disadvantaged youth in his work with sport charities that helped specifically these groups.

Any understanding would be slight at best. With the best will in the world how could it be anything other than superficial? By his own admission he was ignorant of many issues surrounding race. By the same token how could he have any genuine understanding of the lives of people in places like Burnley or Middlesborough? It's just not realistic.

 

[Curryong]

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/gq-heroes/article/prince-harry-patrick-hutchinson-anti-racism

Transcript of the interview between Patrick Hutchinson and Harry. They clearly got on, and I note in this that Patrick himself spoke at one point of 'unconscious bias' at work.

 

[AC21091968]

I found Mr Hutchinson a likeable & modest man with some insightful points to make about working class communities in Britain.

From approx 18 minutes in:

“There’s a big class thing in here too”

“It’s not only black people who are struggling….There are white people who are struggling who are in impoverished areas along with black people, who don’t get the opportunities & the chances that others might get”.

And the duke’s reply to this point? He doesn’t respond at all. He ignores it completely. Why?

Conceivably he doesn’t understand it. Perhaps talk around the lack of opportunities for white working class people makes him feel uncomfortable. Not exactly surprising for a member of the royal family. As likely as not he deliberately chooses to ignore it because it doesn’t fit his agenda. Maybe he obfuscates because in his eyes Mr Hutchinson has gone off script. Probably it’s a mix of all four.

The contrast between Mr Hutchinson & the duke is stark. Mr Hutchinson is clearly a sincere & thoughtful man. The comparison does not flatter the duke.

I agree, I think Harry missed the golden opportunity to change the critics' (or even cynics') view of Meghan and himself, where they are pushing equality when it suits their agenda. Had Harry at least engaged or even acknowledge that white working class boys are one of the lowest admission to university and underperformance in school, he could have turn things around of being balance and not bias of just pushing one particular side of argument/agenda. On the other hand, I could understand that he is uncomfortable with class, given that he is from a very financially privilege and well socially connected background. And he probably does not want to be perceived as a champaign socialist like some celebrities and politicians.

Tehy dont have to be geniuses because they are advised by people who are (if needed) more up to speed, who are there to advise them and write their speeches...
#Harry has clearly been given a bit of tutoring by Meghan and parrotts what she says, and if soemone goes off script he's lost. He doesn't IMO feel uncomfortable with the idea of white working class people needing more help and opportuntiies, he just doesn't know anything about it.. and is lost when it comes up

This is what I felt as well, Harry seems to be speaking Meghan's opinions that does not necessary applied to British society. His speech appeared to be "imported" from America. Again, Meghan probably does not understand that class (or SES) is the one of the biggest division of UK society, not just race. She either does not know or deliberately ignore (as it not suit her agenda) ongoing issues within white working class. Cynics and critics would certainly believe it's the latter, given that at one point Meghan was pushing the decolonisation of university curriculum and tackle the dominance of "male, pale and stale academics", or even "white privilege" and "male "privilege".

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...at-male-pale-and-stale-universities-p8znzs5gl
https://www.theguardian.com/educati...ime-to-get-behind-decolonising-the-curriculum

I agree that I would hope the members of the royal family would know a bit what is going on in British society (ideally also about all the other realms the queen is head of state of but that's probably too much to ask). However, he himself admitted that 'unconscious bias, having the upbringing and education that I had, I had no idea what is was, no idea it existed', shows that somehow he didn't know the British society as well but it seems he now has seen the light, thanks to his wife, and is starting to lecture everybody on it - and in doing so, missing other real issues presented to him: such as the point that it's not just about race, it is also very much about class (and SES) - he hasn't seen the light on that one.

In any case, as someone who said goodbye to his role as royal representative, I don't think he should take it upon himself to start commenting or lecturing on what's wrong and how people should see the world like he does now. Had he remained within the firm, he could have highlighted organisations that were making a difference in this area as part of his royal role; now it is just completely out of place.

Again, I agree with you that Harry's speech appeared to be lecturing and preaching ideas primarily from Meghan. The term "unconscious bias" has been very controversial in UK politics. Apparently up to 40 Conservative MPs refuses to take the Unconscious Bias Training, which is voluntary. Some of their responses were very strong to say the least. I assumed some Conservative Party members would feel the same.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-54282685
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...to-refuse-unconscious-bias-training-sfnrm895g

Edit: I have included Somebody's quote and unconscious bias

 

[Denville]

What is SES? and poor H isn't likely to say anyting original, since he's learning from Meg and i doubt if she's saying anything original....

 

[Curryong]

George and Amal Clooney deny that they spoke to anyone at the wedding about them not knowing Harry and Meghan. Yet another baseless rumour about the Sussexes shot down after being repeated ad nauseum by countless tabloids, magazines and news sites.

https://www.express.co.uk/celebrity...eghan-markle-wedding-Carolyn-Bartholomew-news

 

[Pranter]

Still amazes me that ppl are so willing to believe tabloids after all we know about their lack of accuracy.

I think its a good discussion. We need more of these to take place, to include other topics connected.


LaRae

 

[Denville]

I dont say its true, but even if it is, are the Clooneys going to say "oh sure we didn't know the couple hardly at all...."

 

[TLLK]

The Sussexes like the rest of us in the Golden State will be enjoying a different sort of Thanksgiving holiday based upon the guidelines recently issued. The state has color coded tiers for each county with purple being the most restrictive, then red, orange and yellow as the least restrictive. Santa Barbara Co. is currently at red.


No singing "Over the river and through the woods.."



https://royalcentral.co.uk/uk/susse...w-california-rules-issued-by-governor-151869/

The Duke and Duchess of Sussex are set to have a very different American Thanksgiving this year thanks to the new rules issued by California Governor Gavin Newsom. The Governor has issued the new rules in an effort to combat the ongoing pandemic and has said that celebrations must take place outside and include no more than three households. Additionally, people must keep their masks on at all times except when eating and drinking. Anytype of singing, chanting or shouting is “strongly discouraged.”
Celebrations are also limited to only two hours.

 

[AC21091968]

What is SES? and poor H isn't likely to say anyting original, since he's learning from Meg and i doubt if she's saying anything original....

Socioeconomic Status, which is "an economic and sociological combined total measure of a person's work experience and of an individual's or family's economic and social position in relation to others".

I think term "SES" is more widely used in America, Australia, New Zealand, Canada ... than class (i.e. Working class, middle class or upper class), compared to the UK.

 

[Curryong]

The story that was repeated everywhere was that the Clooneys stated at Harry and Meghan's wedding when Carolyn Bartholomew asked them how they knew the bride and groom they stated 'Not at all!' It has now been denied by George Clooney's rep so that story was clearly a lie, probably formulated, as usual, to paint the Sussexes as celebrity obsessed.

I don't know what else George and Amal are to do. Go before a judge and publicly deny the story, sign a statuary declaration it didn't happen, go on ET or GMB to deny it?

The Clooneys have denied that they said anything of the sort at the wedding.

That ought to be enough. If there are any questions about it then they ought to be directed at people like Rachel Johnson, who printed this lie in her magazine article in the first place.

 

[Betsypaige]

Which points out something relevant here. When someone is in a position to speak out about something, obvious problems with getting a concrete idea across or not being able to really say anything useful at all tells me that the person that is speaking is there because of who they are rather than that they have real information to impart.

Harry speaking of British society as a whole ranks right up there with him speaking on nuclear physics at the Nobel Physics Award. It does bring to my mind a fact that is very probable. Over the years when Harry has given a speech anywhere, most likely he's had advisers that did a lot of the preparation for those speeches. Put Harry in front of a camera to speak what is in his head doesn't work well for him at all.

Harry strikes me as someone who speaks about the "hot button" topics of the day, but actually has no idea what he's speaking about. The reason why he doesn't sound that intelligent, the reason why people mention that he can't go off script, is because he doesn't have thoughts of his own - he's parroting information. When the metaphorical basketball hits the rim and bounces back to him, Harry has no idea what to do with it and just lets it go.

 

[Denville]

Socioeconomic Status, which is "an economic and sociological combined total measure of a person's work experience and of an individual's or family's economic and social position in relation to others".

I think term "SES" is more widely used in America, Australia, New Zealand, Canada ... than class (i.e. Working class, middle class or upper class), compared to the UK.

Thanks, class kind of has an implication of differing outlooks, manners etc. but I suppose its essentailly teh same thing.

 

[Curryong]

Harry strikes me as someone who speaks about the "hot button" topics of the day, but actually has no idea what he's speaking about. The reason why he doesn't sound that intelligent, the reason why people mention that he can't go off script, is because he doesn't have thoughts of his own - he's parroting information. When the metaphorical basketball hits the rim and bounces back to him, Harry has no idea what to do with it and just lets it go.

I've followed Harry since he was 19, and many many times over the years I have seen him in talks with the general public or representatives of charities etc and really engage with them and 'get' what they are saying about various issues, so I very much disagree. That has been both in Australia and the U.K. and he certainly didn't 'parrot information' on those occasions.

And the imputation that Harry is unintelligent is getting very tired. He passed exams to be an Apache helicopter pilot for God's sake!

 

[ACO]

I dont say its true, but even if it is, are the Clooneys going to say "oh sure we didn't know the couple hardly at all...."

No but they didn’t have to address it at all.

 

[Sun Lion]

I agree. Geographically they're in a prime location for this part of the state. It's close enough for a trip by car, plane, helicopter, train down to Los Angeles where Doria lives but they're away from the congestion and pollution of a large city.



I just drove past Montecito on Sunday to pick up my daughter from UCSB and the weather while overcast was very pleasant. They'll likely love living in Santa Barbara Co.

Imagine turning a corner while driving TLLK and coming across the Duke and Duchess cycling with their security ahead of you up the road!

If it ever happens, please post!!!


And I understand "Thanksgiving" is a big deal in the US, but I've just seen that California is limiting the get-togethers to a total of two hours.

Difficult for Harry and Meghan to travel to Ms Ragland's for such a short time - and even more so for the Duchess's mother to just get to Montecito and then head off again.

A maximum of three households per celebration.

And to be done outdoors - with people only allowed inside to use the loo, which you must sanitise frequently.

Keep your mask on unless putting food or drink in your mouth.

Keep away from everybody. Singing, chanting, shouting discouraged.

Doesn't sound like it's going to be too much fun for everyone.

Maybe Doria will transfer to Meghan and Harry's estate well ahead of the occassion and be regarded as part of that household, and that way she won't have to abide by the two hour limit.

 

[AC21091968]

Imagine turning a corner while driving TLLK and coming across the Duke and Duchess cycling with their security ahead of you up the road!

If it ever happens, please post!!!


And I understand "Thanksgiving" is a big deal in the US, but I've just seen that California is limiting the get-togethers to a total of two hours.

Difficult for Harry and Meghan to travel to Ms Ragland's for such a short time - and even more so for the Duchess's mother to just get to Montecito and then head off again.

A maximum of three households per celebration.

And to be done outdoors - with people only allowed inside to use the loo, which you must sanitise frequently.

Keep your mask on unless putting food or drink in your mouth.

Keep away from everybody. Singing, chanting, shouting discouraged.

Doesn't sound like it's going to be too much fun for everyone.

Maybe Doria will transfer to Meghan and Harry's estate well ahead of the occassion and be regarded as part of that household, and that way she won't have to abide by the two hour limit.

I think it would be ideal for Doria to come to Harry and Meghan's house for Thanksgiving. They could have the main dinner or other meals outside near the garden, so that Archie could run around (with boundary secured of course, as in the parents and grandparent keep on sight of him and Archie himself not going "out of bound" territories )

 

[Sun Lion]

I think it would be ideal for Doria to come to Harry and Meghan's house for Thanksgiving. They could have the main dinner or other meals outside near the garden, so that Archie could run around (with boundary secured of course, as in the parents and grandparent keep on sight of him and Archie himself not going "out of bound" territories )

I wonder how the weather is in November AC21091968.

To have a sit down meal outdoors with winter coming on ... although it is California.

Having said that, there are a lot of outdoor fireplaces at Harry and Meghan's home.

Hard for anyone to give the "cook" a helping hand if everyone has to stay outside except to use the bathroom.

All that sharing the "work" is the best part of a get-together ... bonding over an activity and all that.

 

[TLLK]

Imagine turning a corner while driving TLLK and coming across the Duke and Duchess cycling with their security ahead of you up the road!

If it ever happens, please post!!!


And I understand "Thanksgiving" is a big deal in the US, but I've just seen that California is limiting the get-togethers to a total of two hours.

Difficult for Harry and Meghan to travel to Ms Ragland's for such a short time - and even more so for the Duchess's mother to just get to Montecito and then head off again.

A maximum of three households per celebration.

And to be done outdoors - with people only allowed inside to use the loo, which you must sanitise frequently.

Keep your mask on unless putting food or drink in your mouth.

Keep away from everybody. Singing, chanting, shouting discouraged.

Doesn't sound like it's going to be too much fun for everyone.

Maybe Doria will transfer to Meghan and Harry's estate well ahead of the occassion and be regarded as part of that household, and that way she won't have to abide by the two hour limit.

I promise that I'll post as soon as that scenario occurs Sun Lion!


Santa Barbara like much of the Central Coast enjoys cooler temps during November. It's possible that they could see some rain or have highs in the 80's though.


I expect that it will be easier for Doria to travel to Santa Barbara if that's where the family chooses to gather for the holiday. I wouldn't be surprised if she chooses to stay for an extended time.



The guidelines are rather restrictive but considered necessary. All across the nation universities are telling students to just stay home if they travel for Thanksgiving and not to return to campus. They can finish the semester/quarter from their homes via online classes.

 

[ACO]

My guess is Doria spends a significant amount of time with Harry and Meghan. It seemed she was staying with them in Beverly Hills. I won’t be surprised if she also staying with them in Montecito. Per the paps her home seems unoccupied. So it’s nice for them and Archie that they have her as a constant.

 

[Sun Lion]

I promise that I'll post as soon as that scenario occurs Sun Lion!


Santa Barbara like much of the Central Coast enjoys cooler temps during November. It's possible that they could see some rain or have highs in the 80's though.


I expect that it will be easier for Doria to travel to Santa Barbara if that's where the family chooses to gather for the holiday. I wouldn't be surprised if she chooses to stay for an extended time.



The guidelines are rather restrictive but considered necessary. All across the nation universities are telling students to just stay home if they travel for Thanksgiving and not to return to campus. They can finish the semester/quarter from their homes via online classes.

Such ongoing turmoil for everyone TLLK ... I won't be suprised if Covid impacts Christmas too.

I can't imagine that Meghan's big court case will be delayed in January ... but if the UK is still in such a state, maybe it will be a phone-in trial.

Maybe someone will request to postpone it on that basis.

I don't know how the Sussexes can ever recover the momentum they lost by launching their independent lives when they did.

Covid certainly put a spanner in the works of their plans.

(Not that they have suffered as much as many, of course.)

My guess is Doria spends a significant amount of time with Harry and Meghan. It seemed she was staying with them in Beverly Hills. I won’t be surprised if she also staying with them in Montecito. Per the paps her home seems unoccupied. So it’s nice for them and Archie that they have her as a constant.

Agree ACO ... I can well see Meghan's mother spending a lot of time with the Sussexes in that big house and garden - especially with her only grandchild.

No only does the property have the pool, but also a tennis court. Not that I think any of them - Harry, Meghan or Doria - is that sporty.

And as well as the guest-house at the bottom of the garden, I think there is a guest wing/area in the main house, so more than enough room for everyone to spread out and do their own thing.

There is the possibility that M&H knew about it, and perhaps are taking a financial cut from future rental income for a predefined period.

I think someone found out about it muriel, the Fernald Point Lane house.

I just had another look at the property listing for it, and both the photo of the Duke and Duchess, and the reference to "Prince Harry and Meghan" using it, have now been removed.

https://giggster.com/listing/montecito-beach-house

 

[Denville]

No but they didn’t have to address it at all.

Since the issue has come up again, that they were invited ot the wedding but didn't really know the couple, of course they are likely to deny it...

 

[Denville]

I dont quite understand why he has to talk at all. He is supposed to have given up royal life partly because he found the journalists and attention too stressful, so why not give up entirely and go into private life? Become a house husband? If one of them has to do what is pretty much the same as what Royals do, why not leave it to Meghan who has plenty of confidence and isn't IMO stressed by journalists or public /press attention.
or take up a bit of small time charity work. its difficult now, but it should be possible for someone who has plenty of time and resources to take on some kind of hands on stuff, like phoning lonley old people, or packing meals for a charity or something like that.. not sounding off about things that he doesn't really understand...

 

[Claire]

It is a difficult question. They left as they wanted to do more meaningful work with real impact. Okay - grandiose ideals aside. Lets break that down - they want to bring their passion project to the fore, raise money and give that money to who needs it, while also building the brand to move forward.
Can Archewell exist or grow without M&H as the figureheads? No - they are its only draw. As it figureheads do they need to be its only representative - Big no. If they intend the organization to grow they are going to have to recruit ambassadors to the cause. For example Oprah will have to do an interview on behalf of Archewell Org ect. There is a good reason for this. Think about the Livestrong brand. Good concept, bad figurehead. It is really struggling after everything about Lance Armstrong came to the front. Never make the individual larger then the organization they have setup, if you are intending the organisation to last longer then the person. The organisation needs to have a life of its own. Think the Scout Movement or the Red Cross - they have became more then their origins and inventors would have dreamed.
If H&M want their organization to be more than a 10 year celebrity hobby they need to get their faces off Youtube. They also need back bone and clout on the board of directors and a proper financial plan that shows the percentage that actually goes to charities and how much is spend appearing everywhere. There is press and then there is over exposure - and well , you can see where I am going here. They also need to some work to remove Archewell as a charity away from the Cult of the Sussex's - although it might increase donations now in the long run not a good thing.

 

[Denville]

They also left because tehy wanted to make a "professional income". And harry left because he was stressed out and could not hack reporters and pressmen following him...

 

[AC21091968]

Brendan O’Neill (Editor of Spiked Online, centrist libertarian political magazine) has written a piece on The Spectator (UK) on Harry's interview with Patrick Hutchinson on GQ. I do think some posters would agree with him that Harry appeared to be "lecturing the public" or even "out of touch", whilst living in a comfortable lifestyle. Yes, Brendan O’Neill is a staunch critic of the BLM movement and Critical Race Theory. And I also know that The Spectator is a right-wing libertarian political magazine.

Prince Harry needs to stop lecturing us
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/prince-harry-needs-to-stop-lecturing-us

You can read up to three articles for free, anything more requires a subscription.

 

[Claire]

Brendan O’Neill (Editor of Spiked Online, centrist libertarian political magazine) has written a piece on The Spectator (UK) on Harry's interview with Patrick Hutchinson on GQ. I do think some posters would agree with him that Harry appeared to be "lecturing the public" or even "out of touch", whilst living in a comfortable lifestyle. Yes, Brendan O’Neill is a staunch critic of the BLM movement and Critical Race Theory. And I also know that The Spectator is a right-wing libertarian political magazine.

Prince Harry needs to stop lecturing us
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/prince-harry-needs-to-stop-lecturing-us

You can read up to three articles for free, anything more requires a subscription.

Actually brilliant article, even with know bias - point to the true weakness of the BLM movement without prejudice.

 

[Betsypaige]

I've followed Harry since he was 19, and many many times over the years I have seen him in talks with the general public or representatives of charities etc and really engage with them and 'get' what they are saying about various issues, so I very much disagree. That has been both in Australia and the U.K. and he certainly didn't 'parrot information' on those occasions.

And the imputation that Harry is unintelligent is getting very tired. He passed exams to be an Apache helicopter pilot for God's sake!

I should have clarified my comment as referring to relatively recently, not throughout his working life. I have no doubt that on issues Harry personally believes in and is knowledgeable about, he can speak passionately and well....

 

[Roderick]

The story that was repeated everywhere was that the Clooneys stated at Harry and Meghan's wedding when Carolyn Bartholomew asked them how they knew the bride and groom they stated 'Not at all!' It has now been denied by George Clooney's rep so that story was clearly a lie, probably formulated, as usual, to paint the Sussexes as celebrity obsessed.

I don't know what else George and Amal are to do. Go before a judge and publicly deny the story, sign a statuary declaration it didn't happen, go on ET or GMB to deny it?

The Clooneys have denied that they said anything of the sort at the wedding.

That ought to be enough. If there are any questions about it then they ought to be directed at people like Rachel Johnson, who printed this lie in her magazine article in the first place.

So Carolyn Bartholomew lied then?

 

[Alison H]

or take up a bit of small time charity work. its difficult now, but it should be possible for someone who has plenty of time and resources to take on some kind of hands on stuff, like phoning lonley old people, or packing meals for a charity or something like that.. not sounding off about things that he doesn't really understand...

I completely agree. This is a very difficult time for many people, and there's a lot that Harry could do. With Remembrance Day/Veterans' Day coming up, maybe some elderly war veterans who are nervous of going out much under the current circumstances would appreciate a phone call from a famous face who's seen active service. There are all sorts of things he could do, which would genuinely help people.