The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 1: September-December 2020

[muriel]

Do you really think Meghan wants to go to Africa or back to Canada? She's where she wants to bre now in LA, Hollywood, and as Long as Harry wants the marriage to work he'll stay. ANd for the moment I think he's Ok and maybe he's happier there than he was in the UK.. but I do wonder if he may not feel the pull of England eventaully

I agree with you, I can see Meghan being happy in LA. She has now got the celebrity lifestyle she wanted, and the potential for making the sort of money in the US on the back of being married into the BRF.

As for Harry, I do not want to hazard a guess. I think he will learn to "manage" any "pull of England" through occasional trips. I do not think he is a strong enough individual to either convince Meghan to move to the UK, or move on his own. That is just my opinion.

 

[QueenMathilde]

I can see Meghan wanting to go back to Canada at some point and Harry loves Africa. I can see them getting tired of LA, yes.

 

[Mirabel]

I thought it was ludicrous for anyone to suggest Meghan take up residence in Africa.
I believe that all along she planned to settle in California.

 

[AC21091968]

Do you really think Meghan wants to go to Africa or back to Canada? She's where she wants to bre now in LA, Hollywood, and as Long as Harry wants the marriage to work he'll stay. ANd for the moment I think he's Ok and maybe he's happier there than he was in the UK.. but I do wonder if he may not feel the pull of England eventaully

I think Meghan would call LA her home, it's where she grew up in and Doria still lives there. From the Gloria Steinman interview and other Zoom conference, Meghan appeared to be enjoying celebrity life in LA. Yes, she may like Canada or countries in the African continent, but I think she is more familiar with the environment in the US. Of course, time would tell if she actually becomes "sick of" LA lifestyles, or perhaps she may want live in different States in America.

 

[Denville]

I can see Meghan wanting to go back to Canada at some point and Harry loves Africa. I can see them getting tired of LA, yes.

Why? I think Canada was a blind, they were staying there and may have felt that their plan to move part time out of the UK would look better if they at least went to a commonwealth country.. but IMO the plan was always to go to the US and to somewhere like LA.

 

[Heavs]

I think if somewhere in Africa was a real possibility it would have been Cape Town, as was originally suggested by members of their team and the BRF, which is partly what the SA trip was about and they decided it didn't suit them.

They may spend time in Canada but I don't think there's any reason to think they'll go back there on a permanent basis for the foreseeable future. They're settled into an exclusive, luxury enclave in California, close to their celebrity friends and "friends", with all the networking contacts and money making opportunities close by. Not to mention Doria of course. That's not a house to buy for your "work pied a terre" in the way some actors use their LA places.

They want to live a public life in a non Zoom way eventually and that's more difficult to do if you live on Vancouver Island, or even Toronto. There's also the residency issue.

In terms of coming back to the UK on a semi permanent basis, the only reason talk about it in the context of "splitting" is because Meghan appears to have made it clear she didn't like the UK much, not just "the institution".

I don't think you can really compare it to Edward and Wallace. Abdication under those circumstances meant they *had* to leave the country and barely return for various reasons that don't exist here.

 

[Denville]

I doubt if Meg ever had any intention of being in Africa, anywhere but she may have played along with some talk about it...

 

[acdc1]

I think if somewhere in Africa was a real possibility it would have been Cape Town, as was originally suggested by members of their team and the BRF, which is partly what the SA trip was about and they decided it didn't suit them.

They may spend time in Canada but I don't think there's any reason to think they'll go back there on a permanent basis for the foreseeable future. They're settled into an exclusive, luxury enclave in California, close to their celebrity friends and "friends", with all the networking contacts and money making opportunities close by. Not to mention Doria of course. That's not a house to buy for your "work pied a terre" in the way some actors use their LA places.

They want to live a public life in a non Zoom way eventually and that's more difficult to do if you live on Vancouver Island, or even Toronto. There's also the residency issue.

In terms of coming back to the UK on a semi permanent basis, the only reason talk about it in the context of "splitting" is because Meghan appears to have made it clear she didn't like the UK much, not just "the institution".

I don't think you can really compare it to Edward and Wallace. Abdication under those circumstances meant they *had* to leave the country and barely return for various reasons that don't exist here.

I don’t think Meghan had any intention of ever living in South Africa, no matter how much Harry loves Africa. I think Canada was the original plan because they thought it might look better for them to be living in a Commonwealth country at first, but I think LA was the ultimate goal. I think they also added the bit about “splitting their time between North America and the UK” as a way to make themselves look better at first, too- Since their announcement I’ve never been under the illusion that they’ll spend any time of substance in the UK.

And say what you want, but as of right now they seem very happy in their new home in California. Meghan has obviously indicated that she’s always considered LA her home and is glad to be back, and by all accounts Harry is very happy being there, too.

 

[TLLK]

And say what you want, but as of right now they seem very happy in their new home in California. Meghan has obviously indicated that she’s always considered LA her home and is glad to be back, and by all accounts Harry is very happy being there, too.

I agree. Geographically they're in a prime location for this part of the state. It's close enough for a trip by car, plane, helicopter, train down to Los Angeles where Doria lives but they're away from the congestion and pollution of a large city.



I just drove past Montecito on Sunday to pick up my daughter from UCSB and the weather while overcast was very pleasant. They'll likely love living in Santa Barbara Co.

 

[Zaira]

I agree with you, I can see Meghan being happy in LA. She has now got the celebrity lifestyle she wanted, and the potential for making the sort of money in the US on the back of being married into the BRF.

As for Harry, I do not want to hazard a guess. I think he will learn to "manage" any "pull of England" through occasional trips. I do not think he is a strong enough individual to either convince Meghan to move to the UK, or move on his own. That is just my opinion.

Meghan lived the "celeb lifestyle" before she was ever married to Harry...

And Harry who is famously, like other Windsor men, strong-willed and set doesn't have the strength to do what he wants? Weird angle to come at with this. It could just be that he is, you know, happy with his family in LA...

 

[Denville]

Meghan lived the "celeb lifestyle" before she was ever married to Harry...

And Harry who is famously, like other Windsor men, strong-willed and set doesn't have the strength to do what he wants? Weird angle to come at with this. It could just be that he is, you know, happy with his family in LA...

lived the celeb lifestyle??? She was a moderately OK actress in a series that did moderately well and was filmed in Canada. She was no big star. Marrying Harry has made it possible for her to go to LA buy a big house and mix with the top players.

 

[muriel]

Meghan lived the "celeb lifestyle" before she was ever married to Harry...

Meghan may have had the lift of a C list celeb in Toronto, but certainly not the lifestyle she has now.

 

[Zaira]

lived the celeb lifestyle??? She was a moderately OK actress in a series that did moderately well and was filmed in Canada. She was no big star. Marrying Harry has made it possible for her to go to LA buy a big house and mix with the top players.

So how exactly did she not live the celeb lifestyle? Meghan networked and worked with big names well before she married Harry (hence how she met people like Serena). She returned home to LA in filming breaks. She had a decent following on social, traveled widely, lived a very nice and fun life. She was never a tabloid fixture or A-list but still lived a pretty glamorous life. Lots of "celebs" are still celebs but do not pop up constantly in the media. I mean there were websites and tumblrs and blogs dedicated to Rachel Zane's or Meghan's fashion well before Meghan became a royal.

I am not going arguing with folks because it's pointless. But Meghan's life was plenty of glitz, glam, and celebrity before Harry. It's on a different level now of course, but she wasn't doing bad for herself in a highly competitive industry and had her own following and celebrity even if folks want to deny it.

 

[Denville]

So how exactly did she not live the celeb lifestyle? Meghan networked and worked with big names well before she married Harry (hence how she met people like Serena). She returned home to LA in filming breaks. She had a decent following on social, traveled widely, lived a very nice and fun life. She was never a tabloid fixture or A-list but still lived a pretty glamorous life. Lots of "celebs" are still celebs but do not pop up constantly in the media. I mean there were websites and tumblrs and blogs dedicated to Rachel Zane's or Meghan's fashion well before Meghan became a royal.

I am not going arguing with folks because it's pointless. But Meghan's life was plenty of glitz, glam, and celebrity before Harry. It's on a different level now of course, but she wasn't doing bad for herself in a highly competitive industry and had her own following and celebrity even if folks want to deny it.

Depends on what you call celebrity..

 

[Betsypaige]

I do not think a "Bolland-style" intervention is necessary at all. Harry has very publicly demonstrated that he is not a reliable foot soldier for The Firm, so I doubt any such efforts will be made to welcome him back to a royal role. He will be welcome privately as a member of the firm, but that too, depending on his past and future behaviour, may be strained.

The fact is that if Harry wanted to leave The Firm, he could have done so in a polite and dignified manner. Giving HM 20 minutes notice before putting out a public statement, publishing an online list of demands without securing the consent of the Boss, publicly debating who has the right to use the term "royal" are hardly acts that give one a sense of respect and dignity towards the Firm, the Queen, the PoW or the Duke of Cambridge.

20 minutes is being generous, I believe Harry gave his father and William 10 minutes...

 

[Denville]

I doubt if Gloria Steiner and the Clooneys were popping round for tea when she visted LA, or inviting her to do interviews, before she married...

 

[Curryong]

You could say that of all the royals. How many truly famous people did Camilla, Sophie, Mark Phillips, Kate and the others know before they dated royals? And if you are in the acting profession you certainly have more chance of meeting someone more famous, as guest on a chat show, on a film set etc.

Meghan made a living as a regular cast member of a TV series. She was in a notoriously difficult profession to make any sort of advance, and in which most are regularly unemployed. I would have thought the fact that she was able to do that for seven years would have been regarded as a credit to her rather than being denigrated for being a minor member of the acting profession. 99% of actors do not make it that far.

 

[Roderick]

lived the celeb lifestyle??? She was a moderately OK actress in a series that did moderately well and was filmed in Canada. She was no big star. Marrying Harry has made it possible for her to go to LA buy a big house and mix with the top players.

Meghan may not have achieved top billing as a TV actress, let alone a movie actress but she 100% lived and breathed the American celebrity culture and all it stands for. She didn't seem to realise that those values would clash with the British royal family and the people surrounding them when she moved to the UK to marry Prince Harry and begin her new life as a member of the royal family. There didn't seem to be intuition or willingness to adjust in any way at all.

 

[Osipi]

The way I see it, Harry and Meghan are not cemented into place in California. They own a home there. They also have a home in the UK called Frogmore Cottage. These are people that have the ways and means to be wherever they want to be at any given time (discounting the pandemic). If they want a taste of Africa, they can easily go. They can be "in residence" wherever they choose to be for any given reasons. That answers the question about "picking up stakes and moving".

Celebrity culture also doesn't really matter the way I look at it. Even if Harry and Meghan had decided to remain as senior working royals or had opted out for a home in the wild of Scotland, in the roles they had and in the role they hope to succeed in now, they can and will come into contact with cultures of all kinds. I dislike putting "labels" on groups of people. This is not a couple that insulates or discriminates on who they "associate" with.

 

[Denville]

The way I see it, Harry and Meghan are not cemented into place in California. They own a home there. They also have a home in the UK called Frogmore Cottage. These are people that have the ways and means to be wherever they want to be at any given time (discounting the pandemic). If they want a taste of Africa, they can easily go. They can be "in residence" wherever they choose to be for any given reasons. That answers the question about "picking up stakes and moving".

Celebrity culture also doesn't really matter the way I look at it. Even if Harry and Meghan had decided to remain as senior working royals or had opted out for a home in the wild of Scotland, in the roles they had and in the role they hope to succeed in now, they can and will come into contact with cultures of all kinds. I dislike putting "labels" on groups of people. This is not a couple that insulates or discriminates on who they "associate" with.

They're not going to live in Africa or Canada, or anywhere but where they are now. Not Frogmore either.
And the point about celebrities was pointing out that meghan didn't know many A list celebs prior to her marriage.. even if she had made a few freinds in the top list... but marriage to Harry has given her a leg up to meet these people.. and it seems that she's now veyr happy in the US as a Duchess who has status to meet famous journalists actors etc.

 

[Osipi]

They're not going to live in Africa or Canada, or anywhere but where they are now. Not Frogmore either.
And the point about celebrities was pointing out that meghan didn't know many A list celebs prior to her marriage.. even if she had made a few freinds in the top list... but marriage to Harry has given her a leg up to meet these people.. and it seems that she's now veyr happy in the US as a Duchess who has status to meet famous journalists actors etc.

"Wherever you go, there you are." fits this. Wherever they're in residence is where they are in any given moment. Their "main" residence may be in California but they're not tied to it with chains and cement blocks.

To me, celebrities is a just another "classification" such as "royalty" and "scientists" and "educators" and "front line workers". In the end, who they associate with on a private level fall into a classification of "friends". As individuals. Not a posse or a gang or a organization with a name to it or anything. To assume that aiming for a certain "classification" as "friends" in their private life, that suggests that the person is *using* people for their own ends and means without thought to anything else. To label this behavior as a ways and means of succeeding professionally, the best of people do it and its called "diplomacy" and "networking" and this is something HM, The Queen excels at.

I just personally don't see it as reason to sneer and look down my nose at Harry and Meghan as if they've been rolling around in a compost heap too long. Only they really know their intentions. ?

 

[Durham]

GREAT conversation. I have been so impressed with Harry (and Meghan) in these conversations. They have been substantive, thoughtful and it's clear they know their stuff. Harry especially is shining in these sit-downs. The growth in Harry over the past decade has been so great to follow.

And sigh, not shocked that people are clutching their pearls over him talking about race and bias. But he is right to name both his own prior complicity and how the onus can't just be on Black people or POC to "educate" others. This is a concept that many struggle to understand.

Really so pleased with the work they are doing and the trajectory they are setting up.

I found Mr Hutchinson a likeable & modest man with some insightful points to make about working class communities in Britain.

From approx 18 minutes in:

“There’s a big class thing in here too”

“It’s not only black people who are struggling….There are white people who are struggling who are in impoverished areas along with black people, who don’t get the opportunities & the chances that others might get”.

And the duke’s reply to this point? He doesn’t respond at all. He ignores it completely. Why?

Conceivably he doesn’t understand it. Perhaps talk around the lack of opportunities for white working class people makes him feel uncomfortable. Not exactly surprising for a member of the royal family. As likely as not he deliberately chooses to ignore it because it doesn’t fit his agenda. Maybe he obfuscates because in his eyes Mr Hutchinson has gone off script. Probably it’s a mix of all four.

The contrast between Mr Hutchinson & the duke is stark. Mr Hutchinson is clearly a sincere & thoughtful man. The comparison does not flatter the duke.

 

[Somebody]

I found Mr Hutchinson a likeable & modest man with some insightful points to make about working class communities in Britain.

From approx 18 minutes in:

“There’s a big class thing in here too”

“It’s not only black people who are struggling….There are white people who are struggling who are in impoverished areas along with black people, who don’t get the opportunities & the chances that others might get”.

And the duke’s reply to this point? He doesn’t respond at all. He ignores it completely. Why?

Conceivably he doesn’t understand it. Perhaps talk around the lack of opportunities for white working class people makes him feel uncomfortable. Not exactly surprising for a member of the royal family. As likely as not he deliberately chooses to ignore it because it doesn’t fit his agenda. Maybe he obfuscates because in his eyes Mr Hutchinson has gone off script. Probably it’s a mix of all four.

The contrast between Mr Hutchinson & the duke is stark. Mr Hutchinson is clearly a sincere & thoughtful man. The comparison does not flatter the duke.

That's a really interesting observation. He just keeps going on about his favorite topic over 'bias' - while mr Hutchinson is explaining to him, it is a much broader problem and he isn't able or willing to hear it... or engage with that thought. Harry seems to be able to only speak from his own perspective, which is mainly Meghan's perspective (just before he specifically explains how he never learned about such issues and only understood it because of his wife) - who I'm afraid might have had the tendency to interpret most criticism as 'racism' or at least 'unconscious bias'; while some if it surely was but others clearly not.

 

[poppy7]

That's a really interesting observation. He just keeps going on about his favorite topic over 'bias' - while mr Hutchinson is explaining to him, it is a much broader problem and he isn't able or willing to hear it... or engage with that thought. Harry seems to be able to only speak from his own perspective, which is mainly Meghan's perspective (just before he specifically explains how he never learned about such issues and only understood it because of his wife) - who I'm afraid might have had the tendency to interpret most criticism as 'racism' or at least 'unconscious bias'; while some if it surely was but others clearly not.

He doesn't know how to talk about anything else because he doesn't know how to cope with going off script. He doesn't have that type of intelligence and is intellectually unsuited to talking about this stuff anyway...and he really shouldn't. I'm not saying the rest of them are geniuses (clearly some are anything but).

 

[Durham]

while mr Hutchinson is explaining to him, it is a much broader problem and he isn't able or willing to hear it... or engage with that thought.

It's not surprising.

The duke does not appear to have anything useful to say about British society.

He doesn't know how to talk about anything else because he doesn't know how to cope with going off script. He doesn't have that type of intelligence and is intellectually unsuited to talking about this stuff anyway...and he really shouldn't. I'm not saying the rest of them are geniuses (clearly some are anything but).

Well yes indeed he shouldn't. The irony of a member of the royal family attempting to be a social commentator. As if 2020 wasn't weird enough already.

 

[Osipi]

It's not surprising.

The duke does not appear to have anything useful to say about British society.

Which points out something relevant here. When someone is in a position to speak out about something, obvious problems with getting a concrete idea across or not being able to really say anything useful at all tells me that the person that is speaking is there because of who they are rather than that they have real information to impart.

Harry speaking of British society as a whole ranks right up there with him speaking on nuclear physics at the Nobel Physics Award. It does bring to my mind a fact that is very probable. Over the years when Harry has given a speech anywhere, most likely he's had advisers that did a lot of the preparation for those speeches. Put Harry in front of a camera to speak what is in his head doesn't work well for him at all.

 

[Curryong]

That can be said of the vast majority of the royals, most of whom have people who write their speeches. That includes the younger ones.

However, stating that Harry has nothing useful to say about British society is painting things with a very broad brush. In the past Harry has spoken from the heart about mental health issues, the ability of sport to lessen these traumas among disadvantaged youth and veterans, and about very sick children.

He for instance has been involved with WellChild and maimed veterans for well over a decade and still keeps in touch. It would be impossible not to get some knowledge of issues in British society from work done behind the scenes with these organisations.

So let's not throw the baby away with the bath water here and state that Harry knows nothing about British society in spite of serving in the British army for ten years among all classes and conditions of British service people of all colours, nor in work he's been involved with since he was a teenager with all sorts of organisations, just because he now lives in California.

 

[Durham]

However, stating that Harry has nothing useful to say about British society is painting things with a very broad brush. In the past Harry has spoken from the heart about mental health issues, the ability of sport to lessen these traumas among disadvantaged youth and veterans, and about very sick children.

He for instance has been involved with WellChild and maimed veterans for well over a decade and still keeps in touch. It would be impossible not to get some knowledge of issues in British society from work done behind the scenes with these organisations.

So let's not throw the baby away with the bath water here and state that Harry knows nothing about British society in spite of serving in the British army for ten years among all classes and conditions of British service people of all colours, nor in work he's been involved with since he was a teenager with all sorts of organisations, just because he now lives in California.

The comment about British society is clearly about this latest broadcast in which it is painfully obvious that he either doesn't understand, or doesn't want to talk about, the point raised by Mr Hutchinson.

His lack of engagement on this topic speaks volumes about his superficiality.

He was an officer because of where he went to school. If he'd gone to the local comp he'd have been a squaddie. I wouldn't exaggerate his understanding of the lives of working class people because of his army service.

 

[Osipi]

You've said things much better than I could have, Curryong. I'll *never* discredit Harry's ability to comment on things he's been personally involved with over the years as he *knows* what he's talking about and it shows.

"Jumping on the bandwagon" though and speaking is not Harry's forte. As in talking about US politics or making a speech on which motor oil is best for race cars or even nuclear physics. He should just stick to what he excels at and knows inside out and backwards. ?

 

[Somebody]

I agree that I would hope the members of the royal family would know a bit what is going on in British society (ideally also about all the other realms the queen is head of state of but that's probably too much to ask). However, he himself admitted that 'unconscious bias, having the upbringing and education that I had, I had no idea what is was, no idea it existed', shows that somehow he didn't know the British society as well but it seems he now has seen the light, thanks to his wife, and is starting to lecture everybody on it - and in doing so, missing other real issues presented to him: such as the point that it's not just about race, it is also very much about class (and SES) - he hasn't seen the light on that one.

In any case, as someone who said goodbye to his role as royal representative, I don't think he should take it upon himself to start commenting or lecturing on what's wrong and how people should see the world like he does now. Had he remained within the firm, he could have highlighted organisations that were making a difference in this area as part of his royal role; now it is just completely out of place.