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  #1801  
Old 12-04-2020, 07:35 AM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Harry may have a sincere desire to help but at the end of the day, whatever he does and says, is to earn money/build their brand.
That's why he has PR people who assist and spread the message.
And that's why there will always be criticism. Harry lectures other people for personal gain, Charles may lecture people too but not for personal gain.
And Harry has been caught countless times preaching water and drinking wine.

It will all continue because with leaving the RF, Harry became just an ordinary celebrity who has to stay relevant by gracing the public with his virtues, in Harry's case speeches that hopefully interest somebody and public charity.

There were people much more talented and clever who tried to reinvent the wheel regarding press coverage, so good luck with that.
This is what I don't understand. I'm not saying you can't be a businessman and a philanthropist but Harry for some reason, gave up a role which was about service to others, like his father, where he had a private fortune and access to a comfortable wealthy lifestyle.. And why? Apparently to make more money? So why is he now telling us that he and we should be doing good, serving the world.. but what he is presumably doing in California isn't serving.. he could do that at home.. but making money. So its a bit weird to be lectured by someone like him. It seems to me that he's blurred the lines a lot between service and charity and making money.
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  #1802  
Old 12-04-2020, 07:53 AM
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I feel He wanted it both ways... be in a position to serve, influence, have a voice Etc but have complete Freedom? Control? to do or say as he wished. He was not getting that and was unsatisfied with Royal life . Then Meghan came along and urged him to act So here he is. But who knows? Reading them pretty hard .
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  #1803  
Old 12-04-2020, 07:59 AM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amaryllus View Post
I feel He wanted it both ways... be in a position to serve, influence, have a voice Etc but have complete Freedom? Control? to do or say as he wished. He was not getting that and was unsatisfied with Royal life . Then Meghan came along and urged him to act So here he is. But who knows? Reading them pretty hard .
I don't believe that Harry thought in terms of making money. He may have been a bit dissatisfied with royal work and felt the limitations.. but I doubt if he thought of "being paid to care". I think people can understand someone who builds up a big business from poverty and makes a fortune and then wants to give something back.. but even then a lot of millionaires set up charities to look good, to cover up their images as hard nosed and ruthless capitalists... or for tax reasons. So people can be cynical about many of them...
So for Harry who had a position where he was allowed, indeed encouraged to do charity work, to have help with his speeches so that they were not likely to annoy the public (because none of likes to be preached to).. to junk it in to make more money just seems very odd...
  #1804  
Old 12-04-2020, 09:16 AM
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I think that a term that we could apply to both Harry and Meghan at this time is that they are very much still "amateurs" at the game they are playing in setting up their "new life".

Harry comes from a background of service and over the years has had some wonderful success in areas that he's passionate about. He also had people behind him to aid and abet his endeavors so that they fit into the framework of what the "Firm" required of him. Meghan, too, had her own areas of philanthropy and I do believe that she was sincere in what she was doing. The concept of fitting into the framework of what the "Firm" expected of the both of them didn't mesh with their ideas and off to California they went.

Now they're on their own and have to establish themselves somehow, someway, during a pandemic. Without the solid framework of the "Firm" underneath them, it may seem as they're grasping at straws and coming across in ways that don't seem genuine or sincere and even just throwing out "buzz words" and being "woke" shows me that they're learning what works and what doesn't work for them. Trial and error. It'll be a long while before I think I'd proclaim them as being "professional" philanthropists but what the hay.. they're trying at least. They very well could have decided to live a totally hedonistic lifestyle among the rich and famous and celebrity circles but I've seen no evidence of that at all. So basically, they're trying. Can't fault them for that.
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  #1805  
Old 12-04-2020, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
This is what I don't understand. I'm not saying you can't be a businessman and a philanthropist but Harry for some reason, gave up a role which was about service to others, like his father, where he had a private fortune and access to a comfortable wealthy lifestyle.. And why? Apparently to make more money? So why is he now telling us that he and we should be doing good, serving the world.. but what he is presumably doing in California isn't serving.. he could do that at home.. but making money. So its a bit weird to be lectured by someone like him. It seems to me that he's blurred the lines a lot between service and charity and making money.
My theory all along has been that this whole thing- leaving the UK for California, separating themselves from the royal family, starting their philanthropic foundation and making their own private income- was driven (at least in part) by Meghan’s unhappiness living in the UK and being a working royal. I think if she had been happy in the role and had wanted to continue on Harry would have been quite happy. Harry obviously loves his wife and wants her to be happy, comfortable, and confident, just like any good spouse would. I think that this is all mostly Meghan’s dreams, and while I wouldn’t say she’s any better than he is at putting actions behind the buzzwords, I think she’s certainly more comfortable with it and is probably more business-savvy and better at building a brand than he is. It’s very clear that Harry has no idea what he’s doing- not saying that Meghan does either, but she certainly appears much more confident at it.
  #1806  
Old 12-04-2020, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acdc1 View Post
My theory all along has been that this whole thing- leaving the UK for California, separating themselves from the royal family, starting their philanthropic foundation and making their own private income- was driven (at least in part) by Meghan’s unhappiness living in the UK and being a working royal. I think if she had been happy in the role and had wanted to continue on Harry would have been quite happy. Harry obviously loves his wife and wants her to be happy, comfortable, and confident, just like any good spouse would. I think that this is all mostly Meghan’s dreams, and while I wouldn’t say she’s any better than he is at putting actions behind the buzzwords, I think she’s certainly more comfortable with it and is probably more business-savvy and better at building a brand than he is. It’s very clear that Harry has no idea what he’s doing- not saying that Meghan does either, but she certainly appears much more confident at it.
Of course she's confident, she led Harry into this whole messy "Im caring but I want to make money" set up. But she's not that smart either.. and so when Harry dutifully makes speeches based on her kind of thinking, he comes across as super clueless.
  #1807  
Old 12-04-2020, 10:08 AM
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Even Given none of knows the intimate details of what made them dip out of the Working Royal family If he really did leave to keep Meghan happy, to please her or at her urging that’s a very worrying thing. Largely Giving up your entire life, friends and family to please another person only leads to regret and resentment as Bogart said in Casablanca “Maybe not today. Maybe not tomorrow, but soon and for the rest of your life” and asking that of your significant other is incredibly selfish.
  #1808  
Old 12-04-2020, 10:34 AM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amaryllus View Post
Even Given none of knows the intimate details of what made them dip out of the Working Royal family If he really did leave to keep Meghan happy, to please her or at her urging that’s a very worrying thing. Largely Giving up your entire life, friends and family to please another person only leads to regret and resentment as Bogart said in Casablanca “Maybe not today. Maybe not tomorrow, but soon and for the rest of your life” and asking that of your significant other is incredibly selfish.
Er Meghan had to give up HER life, in Canada/USA to live with him...
  #1809  
Old 12-04-2020, 10:51 AM
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Several posts have been edited or deleted. Let's move on from comparing which member of the royal family has been treated more unfairly by social media and the press.
  #1810  
Old 12-04-2020, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Harry may have a sincere desire to help but at the end of the day, whatever he does and says, is to earn money/build their brand.
That's why he has PR people who assist and spread the message.
And that's why there will always be criticism. Harry lectures other people for personal gain, Charles may lecture people too but not for personal gain.
And Harry has been caught countless times preaching water and drinking wine.

It will all continue because with leaving the RF, Harry became just an ordinary celebrity who has to stay relevant by gracing the public with his virtues, in Harry's case speeches that hopefully interest somebody and public charity.

There were people much more talented and clever who tried to reinvent the wheel regarding press coverage, so good luck with that.
I do agree that building a brand is a huge part of Harry and Meghan’s game....and for Harry, that’s a shame, because it never was before. His main focus was work with vets, right? I don’t recall him speaking out in the environment or or other issues - he focused on certain ones closer to his heart. Now I think he’s spreading himself too thin, almost as if he feels he’s got to speak out on every hot button topic under the sun...
  #1811  
Old 12-04-2020, 12:10 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Woodbury, United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amaryllus View Post
I feel He wanted it both ways... be in a position to serve, influence, have a voice Etc but have complete Freedom? Control? to do or say as he wished. He was not getting that and was unsatisfied with Royal life . Then Meghan came along and urged him to act So here he is. But who knows? Reading them pretty hard .
I think a lot of it stems from jealousy of William (maybe Harry has never wanted to be king, but he likes the special respect and treatment a future king gets). He didn’t get his “court” at Windsor (like William has at KP) - that seemed to set him off. I think H believed that because he couldn’t have everything his brother did, or because William was being treated differently, that it meant he wasn’t respected or valued.
  #1812  
Old 12-04-2020, 12:16 PM
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Personally, and I mean personally - I think that Meghan and Harry pinned their existence to celebrity woke culture too deep and too fast and that will be the major problem. It is very difficult to PR celebrity wokeness and it is a complete contradiction in ideology and action. It is also going to be we support the poor , but here we are the white (half-white) saviors, or who love the environment but we also love our quarter million gas guzzler.
it is very difficult to make them not appear preachy when they are talking about hardships and poverty from their mansion and about putting words into actions when they can easily throw a few million at problems without blinking an eye for a photo op.

I will always remember a royal commentator on Mexit saying that the Sussex's were leaving as they wanted the opportunity to get rich off their celebrity the same way every news agency in the world does. It is very difficult to live the life of a commodity.
  #1813  
Old 12-04-2020, 12:19 PM
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Imo Harry is very much stil finding his way in his new job. And like in any job, when you first start, there are things that come natural to you and some things you learn 'on the job'.
One of the aspects of his job is public speaking, had it not been for Covid, maybe he would have started at private seminars or similar. Now his main opportunity is by doing public speeches/zoomappearances etc.
If he had started at private seminars, there maybe would have been 50, or 100 or 200 spectators and he could gradually grow in the role, learning from the feedback on every appearance.
Now his appearances are watched by thousands or millions and can be repeated, rewatched, slowed down, zoomed into etc etc, and all of it can be (and is being) discussed and scrutinized.

They made the choice to start new jobs, we don't need to feel sorry for them or anything, but i will give him some slack and give him time to grow into it.
Maybe in a year or 2 we'll see where they see themselves heading and have found there niche.

just my 2 cts
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  #1814  
Old 12-04-2020, 12:20 PM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I do agree that building a brand is a huge part of Harry and Meghan’s game....and for Harry, that’s a shame, because it never was before. His main focus was work with vets, right? I don’t recall him speaking out in the environment or or other issues - he focused on certain ones closer to his heart. Now I think he’s spreading himself too thin, almost as if he feels he’s got to speak out on every hot button topic under the sun...
He does. They are now working as "would be philanthropists" who make money.. Tthey have to keep their faces in the media with everything they do... They can't go for more than a few weeks without being seen, making a speech, writing something, being photographed because they have to keep on being seen. Harry was mainly focused on the army, but when he had to do a desk job, he didn't like it and wanted out.. then he had his royal work but I don't think it was as satisfying to him as active service.. But now he's a California celeb who wants to be seen, make money and do a bit of good...and he has to keep busy promulgating what he's learned from MEghan.
  #1815  
Old 12-04-2020, 12:26 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire View Post
Personally, and I mean personally - I think that Meghan and Harry pinned their existence to celebrity woke culture too deep and too fast and that will be the major problem. It is very difficult to PR celebrity wokeness and it is a complete contradiction in ideology and action. It is also going to be we support the poor , but here we are the white (half-white) saviors, or who love the environment but we also love our quarter million gas guzzler.
it is very difficult to make them not appear preachy when they are talking about hardships and poverty from their mansion and about putting words into actions when they can easily throw a few million at problems without blinking an eye for a photo op.

I will always remember a royal commentator on Mexit saying that the Sussex's were leaving as they wanted the opportunity to get rich off their celebrity the same way every news agency in the world does. It is very difficult to live the life of a commodity.
but they can't throw their own money at problems, because they need it for themselves. They have a big house to keep, need to pay for staff and security, for travel and new clothes when things get more normal. I agree that they (or at least Meghan) almost certainly saw "being a prince and Princess" as a way of getting rich.. (er).. and she did not grasp that if you a a senior working royal its not a job you can just dip in and out of, and that you can't use your status to make money....
  #1816  
Old 12-04-2020, 12:36 PM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
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Posts: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I think that a term that we could apply to both Harry and Meghan at this time is that they are very much still "amateurs" at the game they are playing in setting up their "new life".

Harry comes from a background of service and over the years has had some wonderful success in areas that he's passionate about. He also had people behind him to aid and abet his endeavors so that they fit into the framework of what the "Firm" required of him. Meghan, too, had her own areas of philanthropy and I do believe that she was sincere in what she was doing. The concept of fitting into the framework of what the "Firm" expected of the both of them didn't mesh with their ideas and off to California they went.

Now they're on their own and have to establish themselves somehow, someway, during a pandemic. Without the solid framework of the "Firm" underneath them, it may seem as they're grasping at straws and coming across in ways that don't seem genuine or sincere and even just throwing out "buzz words" and being "woke" shows me that they're learning what works and what doesn't work for them. Trial and error. It'll be a long while before I think I'd proclaim them as being "professional" philanthropists but what the hay.. they're trying at least. They very well could have decided to live a totally hedonistic lifestyle among the rich and famous and celebrity circles but I've seen no evidence of that at all. So basically, they're trying. Can't fault them for that.

Well said.
  #1817  
Old 12-04-2020, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
Imo Harry is very much stil finding his way in his new job. And like in any job, when you first start, there are things that come natural to you and some things you learn 'on the job'.
One of the aspects of his job is public speaking, had it not been for Covid, maybe he would have started at private seminars or similar. Now his main opportunity is by doing public speeches/zoomappearances etc.
If he had started at private seminars, there maybe would have been 50, or 100 or 200 spectators and he could gradually grow in the role, learning from the feedback on every appearance.
Now his appearances are watched by thousands or millions and can be repeated, rewatched, slowed down, zoomed into etc etc, and all of it can be (and is being) discussed and scrutinized.

They made the choice to start new jobs, we don't need to feel sorry for them or anything, but i will give him some slack and give him time to grow into it.
Maybe in a year or 2 we'll see where they see themselves heading and have found there niche.

just my 2 cts
I agree in part, it's obviously been a very rough transition and covid certainly put a stop to some of their plans. But public speaking was a big part of his job as a working royal, hell long before that. Both to small groups of people, groups of journalists, large crowds and an audience of millions ala Invictus opening speech broadcast on TV.

I know it's slightly different now he and Meghan are representing themselves and it's definitely awkward that they seem to want to follow an "independent, progressive, woke royalty" model borrowed from a mish mash of wealthy California celebrities and the actual BRF model but he used to be better at this.

At the very least he sounded more like himself than he does currently. Whoever were his speech writers then were good at having him not lecture people about the need for Invictus, getting an HIV test or Sentebele even though he was always a very privileged person.

I suppose it makes a difference when you know a person isn't actively seeking attention because it's their way of making money, for me anyway.

Quote:
I will always remember a royal commentator on Mexit saying that the Sussex's were leaving as they wanted the opportunity to get rich off their celebrity the same way every news agency in the world does. It is very difficult to live the life of a commodity.
I'm 100% sure it must be infuriating. But they also had a lot of things "ordinary" celebrities don't have, and they're doing their best to hang on to some of those. Nor were they in any way at all poor. And they're still a hot commodity and attempting to control who takes pictures of them so they can profit leads to the "cemetery photoshoot" nonsense disaster.
  #1818  
Old 12-04-2020, 02:25 PM
Lori138's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Er Meghan had to give up HER life, in Canada/USA to live with him...
But, she did not have to give up everything the way Harry seems to have done. She still had her friends, she still travelled to America/Canada to see them and they to see her. Her mother came to visit. She gave up her place of residence and her acting career, that was all.

Harry on the other hand, has given up his family (let's face it how many times have Charles and the Queen seen Archie, in person) all of his friends, his place in the RF, his entire life (as he knew it) to that point, his residence and his military appointments.
  #1819  
Old 12-04-2020, 02:28 PM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lori138 View Post
But, she did not have to give up everything the way Harry seems to have done. She still had her friends, she still travelled to America/Canada to see them and they to see her. Her mother came to visit. She gave up her place of residence and her acting career, that was all.

Harry on the other hand, has given up his family (let's face it how many times have Charles and the Queen seen Archie, in person) all of his friends, his place in the RF, his entire life (as he knew it) to that point, his residence and his military appointments.
Meghan had to give up her acting and her life in LA and Canada. Of course she could travel to see people in America, because there was no Covid then. Hary can't go to the UK right now because of Covid
  #1820  
Old 12-04-2020, 02:33 PM
Somebody's Avatar
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire View Post
Personally, and I mean personally - I think that Meghan and Harry pinned their existence to celebrity woke culture too deep and too fast and that will be the major problem. It is very difficult to PR celebrity wokeness and it is a complete contradiction in ideology and action. It is also going to be we support the poor , but here we are the white (half-white) saviors, or who love the environment but we also love our quarter million gas guzzler.
it is very difficult to make them not appear preachy when they are talking about hardships and poverty from their mansion and about putting words into actions when they can easily throw a few million at problems without blinking an eye for a photo op.

I will always remember a royal commentator on Mexit saying that the Sussex's were leaving as they wanted the opportunity to get rich off their celebrity the same way every news agency in the world does. It is very difficult to live the life of a commodity.
Exactly, and regarding the final part: that's precisely the opposite of what a royal family is for: it should be about serving the people and not about serving yourself.
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