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11-10-2020, 08:14 PM
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Member - in Memoriam
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 17,267
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I really have to think that someone outside of Harry and Meghan did all the footwork to set this up. For one, I seriously doubt that Harry, as the idea formed, knew there was an United States National Cemetery in West Los Angeles although Meghan may have. Then to line up a professional photographer to go along for the ride to capture it for posterity. Its my educated guess that the Sussex "people" put this together not really realizing the effect it was going to have in the long run. I think its possible that the nuances of what the royal family does on official occasions escapes the American frame of mind.
I don't doubt that Harry's intents and his thoughts were sincere and perhaps he was in the dark as to how this whole thing would pan out and went along with the plans. Harry, even after all this time, still is a stranger in a strange land and pretty much still unfamiliar with the "celeb" PR spin doctors whose only thought is to focus on their clients and their clients alone. The Sussexes may not even have imagined that the feedback from their observance could and would go horribly wrong and just make things look worse for them.
Someone suggested earlier that perhaps they should employ someone among their staff that is very cognizant of the nuances of how the British do things and perceive things to kind of be there for checks and balances when their PR company (American) plans things for them. It might do them some good.
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__________________
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
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11-10-2020, 09:26 PM
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Royal Highness
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HereditaryPrincess
I can understand where people are coming from with the unnecessaryness of the couple being in the photo, but one could also argue the same for the balcony appearance at the Cenotaph, and virtually any other time the royals have been photographed at funerals or memorial services. So the argument becomes less convincing.
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The royals on the balcony at the Cenotaph are at an official event, acting in support of the monarch. They’re present as part of the British Royal Family and are photographed as such. Harry and Meghan were acting as private individuals at the cemetery but they paid a photographer to come along and take pictures of them trying their best to visually represent the official nature of the British ceremony.
It would be completely different if Harry had come back to participate in the official ceremony. Or if the British government had asked him to represent the Queen at some sort of official ceremony in the US. But all these latest pictures show are two people (who could not have made it more clear that traditional, official royal life wasn’t for them) representing no one but themselves.
The current senior working royals will occasionally show activities of a “private” nature with the understanding that they’re still acting as public entities, and then only as relatively rare occurrences that always dovetail with their official duties.
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11-10-2020, 09:52 PM
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Courtier
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 522
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For me the difference with the photos is that the photos of the balcony at the Cenotaph are taken and published by the media with no input by the Royals.
I do believe the media place far too much emphasis on what Kate is wearing at this event which is not appropriate but the Royals have no control over this.
The photos from the cemetery were taken by a photographer chosen by Harry and Meghan who chose which images to release and therefore they made a conscious decision to release images of themselves holding hands walking through a cemetery.
As I said in a previous post I have no issue with them wanting to mark the occasion but believe they should have issued a photo of the wreath with a message 24 hours after the Cenotaph state occasion, and perhaps the one photo of them placing the wreath but not the other photos which were just pure PR and distasteful.
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Above all, be the heroine of your life ... (Nora Ephron)
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11-11-2020, 02:27 AM
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Heir Presumptive
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Woodbury, United States
Posts: 2,629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi
I really have to think that someone outside of Harry and Meghan did all the footwork to set this up. For one, I seriously doubt that Harry, as the idea formed, knew there was an United States National Cemetery in West Los Angeles although Meghan may have. Then to line up a professional photographer to go along for the ride to capture it for posterity. Its my educated guess that the Sussex "people" put this together not really realizing the effect it was going to have in the long run. I think its possible that the nuances of what the royal family does on official occasions escapes the American frame of mind.
I don't doubt that Harry's intents and his thoughts were sincere and perhaps he was in the dark as to how this whole thing would pan out and went along with the plans. Harry, even after all this time, still is a stranger in a strange land and pretty much still unfamiliar with the "celeb" PR spin doctors whose only thought is to focus on their clients and their clients alone. The Sussexes may not even have imagined that the feedback from their observance could and would go horribly wrong and just make things look worse for them.
Someone suggested earlier that perhaps they should employ someone among their staff that is very cognizant of the nuances of how the British do things and perceive things to kind of be there for checks and balances when their PR company (American) plans things for them. It might do them some good.
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I’m sorry, I can’t absolve Harry and Meghan of responsibility. Even I believed this to be true, they would still have approved. However, I believe this was their idea...pulled off by their helpers, perhaps, but their idea.
I don’t think they should have issued a photo, period, even of the wreath. What for?
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11-11-2020, 02:35 AM
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Member - in Memoriam
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 17,267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige
I’m sorry, I can’t absolve Harry and Meghan of responsibility. Even I believed this to be true, they would still have approved. However, I believe this was their idea...pulled off by their helpers, perhaps, but their idea.
I don’t think they should have issued a photo, period, even of the wreath. What for?
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Just looking at this from all angles and coming up with a lot of maybes. We'll never really know how it came about and what their intentions were behind doing this.
Things aren't always as they seem to be sometimes. 
__________________
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
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11-11-2020, 03:05 AM
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Heir Presumptive
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Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,086
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There's a difference between attending the cenotaph service and being on TV/in the papers and organising a photoshoot of yourself laying a wreath for you own benefit.
It's one of the biggest days in the UK's collective consciousness it's more than just Veterans Day, the closest we come to a shared sacred day really and they're deliberately making it about themselves because they know that they need that official royal veneer to be anything more than a youngish rich and famous couple.
I'm not a big fan of the Sussexes currently but it's not about that. I'd say the same thing if Eugenie had posted pictures of herself doing the same thing somewhere, stop trying to draw attention to you because you weren't invited to the real thing.
It's the equivalent of a politician who poses at a church without attending the service inside. Performance piety for popularity.
I don't know who's idea it was but I can't lay the blame entire on their new PR company, there are still a lot of warning bells that should have rung with Harry and in cases like this the clients also have a say in which photos get released. He is also aware of how spin doctors work because the BRF do use them. This isn't the first time something like this has happen (see other PR "royal visits") but it is the most annoying.
I'm rolling my eyes about him joining the All Star Special because OF Course he is, but whatever, that was an already organised celebrity event he's joining, not a staged event where the emphasis should be anywhere but him but he's deliberately taken it over.
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11-11-2020, 03:27 AM
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Royal Highness
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Manchester, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,883
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I don't know who's advising them or what they're thinking, but I wish they could get some good advice from someone. This latest stunt comes very soon after Harry's unwise comments about American politics.
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11-11-2020, 03:34 AM
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Heir Apparent
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Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 3,869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC21091968
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I personally find nothing funny about “Megxit” since it was coined long before they exited by the very vocally racist side of social media hoping Harry would divorce Meghan. And by that I truly mean a very ugly side who used gross terms like the “N word”. So the UK media using it just cemented thoughts for many...
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11-11-2020, 03:55 AM
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Royal Highness
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,833
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How would you guys feel if Harry and Meghan attended the Inauguration and inaugural Ball?
Just throwing it out there.
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11-11-2020, 04:17 AM
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Imperial Majesty
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Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camelot23ca
The royals on the balcony at the Cenotaph are at an official event, acting in support of the monarch. They’re present as part of the British Royal Family and are photographed as such. Harry and Meghan were acting as private individuals at the cemetery but they paid a photographer to come along and take pictures of them trying their best to visually represent the official nature of the British ceremony.
It would be completely different if Harry had come back to participate in the official ceremony. Or if the British government had asked him to represent the Queen at some sort of official ceremony in the US. But all these latest pictures show are two people (who could not have made it more clear that traditional, official royal life wasn’t for them) representing no one but themselves.
The current senior working royals will occasionally show activities of a “private” nature with the understanding that they’re still acting as public entities, and then only as relatively rare occurrences that always dovetail with their official duties.
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Its a bit like 2 people who worked in a restaurant and who had walked out of their jobs, coming back and dressing in their waiting staff uniforms and going round the place again serving meals, when the thing is they dont work there any more. THe RF are photographed at teh Cenotaph because it is part of their jobs to be seen laying wreaths and representing the nation in mourning for those who have died. They need to be seen publicly working because that is the nature of their job.. and they recognise that as public figures there will be some interest in their private activities as well, so they usually allow some photographs at private events like holiday. Harry claimed in last November that he couldn't stand the public nature of his job, the way that cameras clicked when following him at work or at play, and now he's deliberately creating a job where none exists and getting a cameraman to come along and record it..
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11-11-2020, 04:17 AM
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Royal Highness
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Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire
How would you guys feel if Harry and Meghan attended the Inauguration and inaugural Ball?
Just throwing it out there.
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If they are attending as audience members (not as a special guest on stage or in "VIP front seat"), I do not mind. This would apply to any US presidents (Republican or Democrat). In other words, if they are within the crowds and not stand out, I don't have much to say.
Problems will arise if they are specially introduced in the audience or sit in VIP area (on/off stage) as HRH The Duke and Duchess of Sussex. This would bring in the accusation of using their title and royal connections into politics.
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11-11-2020, 04:40 AM
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Heir Apparent
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Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 3,869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire
How would you guys feel if Harry and Meghan attended the Inauguration and inaugural Ball?
Just throwing it out there.
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I would have no issue with it. Why should anyone?
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11-11-2020, 04:42 AM
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Member - in Memoriam
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 17,267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire
How would you guys feel if Harry and Meghan attended the Inauguration and inaugural Ball?
Just throwing it out there.
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Three words. Not going to happen. 
__________________
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
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11-11-2020, 05:05 AM
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Heir Apparent
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Malmö, Sweden
Posts: 4,026
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi
Three words. Not going to happen.  |
Aren't there several different inauguration balls? If one of them invited them why shouldn't they be able to go.
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11-11-2020, 05:07 AM
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Royal Highness
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,833
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi
Three words. Not going to happen. |
When I was told this - I was thinking maybe the Americans know something about Covid the rest of us dont.
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11-11-2020, 05:31 AM
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Imperial Majesty
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London / Guildford, United Kingdom
Posts: 11,718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavs
I don't know who's idea it was but I can't lay the blame entire on their new PR company, there are still a lot of warning bells that should have rung with Harry and in cases like this the clients also have a say in which photos get released. He is also aware of how spin doctors work because the BRF do use them. This isn't the first time something like this has happen (see other PR "royal visits") but it is the most annoying.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison H
I don't know who's advising them or what they're thinking, but I wish they could get some good advice from someone. This latest stunt comes very soon after Harry's unwise comments about American politics.
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I do not think it is right to blame the PR firm they are working with. The PR firm may come up with the ideas, but at the end of the day, it is Harry and Meghan who are the "Principals". It is their decision, and the buck stops there. In this case, Sunshine Sachs could well have come up with the idea as they may not understand the UK sensitivity around Remembrance Sunday, but Harry ought to, and should have refused to do the photoshoot.
I know I have said it before, but I think H&M lack the maturity and judgement required. They have made several missteps along the way, which I do not want to necessarily list out. But I do think calm and collected thought and clarity of where they are trying to get to would help them tremendously.
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11-11-2020, 05:40 AM
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Imperial Majesty
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Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACO
I would have no issue with it. Why should anyone?
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Depends on how one gets to these balls? I dont know enough to make a comment, if they are mainly for the winning team then its possible that if there ARE Inaugartion balls this time (and they're not put off because of Covid,) if Harry were to go, he'd be perceived as a Democrat supporter. Tha'ts fine if he really is a private person, married to an American and living in the USA. But if he's sitll keeping one foot inside the BRF, it is more problematic. I dont know if the balls are for the winning side or if they're just celebrity events.....
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11-11-2020, 05:43 AM
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Imperial Majesty
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Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muriel
I do not think it is right to blame the PR firm they are working with. The PR firm may come up with the ideas, but at the end of the day, it is Harry and Meghan who are the "Principals". It is their decision, and the buck stops there. In this case, Sunshine Sachs could well have come up with the idea as they may not understand the UK sensitivity around Remembrance Sunday, but Harry ought to, and should have refused to do the photoshoot.
I know I have said it before, but I think H&M lack the maturity and judgement required. They have made several missteps along the way, which I do not want to necessarily list out. But I do think calm and collected thought and clarity of where they are trying to get to would help them tremendously.
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Im not sure an American PR firm would come up iwth the idea of finding Commonwelath solders buried in teh US and suggesting that H and Meg are photographed at their graves on Rem Sunday. I think that was H's idea... possibly with some good motives of remembering the dead. I'll even say that maybe he felt he should do something to mark Rem Sunday and Meghan thought that if they do that, they should be seen doing it... and yes regardless of who came up iwht the idea, Meg and Harry are the ones who make the ulitimate decision on how they are portrayed.
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11-11-2020, 06:32 AM
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Courtier
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire
How would you guys feel if Harry and Meghan attended the Inauguration and inaugural Ball?
Just throwing it out there.
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I wouldn't like it - and I'm not one of those who hates everything they do. But it would be them getting involved in politics and wanting "half in and half out" as they seem to they should stay away from politics.
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