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  #1141  
Old 11-10-2020, 04:46 PM
Alisa's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC21091968 View Post
It's simply not damned if they do and damned if they don't. Most posters on the forum do not object Harry and Meghan paying tribute to ex-serviceman on Remembrance Sunday. What they do object is the sheer number of photographs (7 in total) of Harry and Meghan in the Los Angeles National Cemetery. Had the photos been in similar format as these politicians, the response would have been different. Apologies for quoting myself on post #1040 with some edits.



Some of these photographs were probably not taken by photographers. George Spencer-Churchill, Marquess of Blandford (heir to the Duke of Marlborough) did not post photos of himself at all, but silhouettes of fallen soldiers and wreaths on the gardens of Blenheim Palace.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CHTM43YgFN3/

Some of the social media comments (that I have read) towards Arthur Edwards from the "Sussex Squads" have been ludicrous. Dare I say these comments were much worse than most posts in this forum. They actually compared Harry's plea in laying a wreath on personal behalf during the Remembrance service to Arthur Edwards laying a wreath behalf of The Sun readers at the end of the service (where members of the public were free to do so).
It has nothing to do with the number of photos. When the news of BP refusing to lay a wreath in Harry's behalf broke. The critics said he should go lay one on his own. When he did- they found something else to criticize -the photos. Even in this thread alone the critics are divided on the number of photos or whether he should even released photos at all.

Whatever they had done the critics would've criticized. Same story different day.
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  #1142  
Old 11-10-2020, 04:58 PM
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A lot of us here in Britain & elsewhere have tried patiently to explain our disquiet at the duke's actions but it seems that some people just don't want to listen.

Seemingly they know best.
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  #1143  
Old 11-10-2020, 05:04 PM
Majesty
 
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This is an opinion forum. None of us holds THE TRUTH in illuminated letters in our grasp. And everyone has an opinion on Harry and Meghan and their actions regarding Remembrance Day. Some people don't agree with them and some do. Some can't stand their actions, some understand them. That's life, surely.
  #1144  
Old 11-10-2020, 05:15 PM
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Its clear people fall in to three camps - nothing they do will ever be right, everything they do is always right and those of us in the middle who are just trying to work out what the heck is going on.

I actually though this was a discussion forum not just a place to express our opinions as if they are bound to be right and agreed with always. I know when I first started posting on here almost 10 years ago my opinion of so many things were different and have been informed by high quality, knowledgable, often emotionless, discussion. It would help if people were allowed to express their views and opinions without having it quoted back and blasted as "wrong" based purely on another posters opinions.

This is very much an issue which will divide people; it depends on if you see what HM, Charles, William and co at the Cenotaph as a mere PR exercise every year or if you believe it is something more. If you see what the RF do as nothing more than a photoshoot then of course what H&M have done is fine. As is often the case with H&M its not the principal of what they do - observing remembrance day - that is the issue but the way it is executed that raises eyebrows - done with a celebrity photographer in tow with a focus on H&M in every picture and timed to overshadow HM and the national service at the Cenotaph.
  #1145  
Old 11-10-2020, 05:50 PM
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Everything that people do has nuances and shades of grey. You can believe in the concept of Remembrance Sunday and the Royal Family's attendance there at the Cenotaph (something btw that Harry did as his Royal duty year after year) without also then believing that what Harry and Meghan tried to do in LA as intrinsically wrong and a PR exercise and trying to usurp the Royal Family's role etc etc.

And I am glad that you also believe that attacking others on this thread by quoting things back at them because of the posters' opinion is unhelpful. As a long term follower of Harry I have been trying to say that here for almost a year.
  #1146  
Old 11-10-2020, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
As is often the case with H&M its not the principal of what they do - observing remembrance day - that is the issue but the way it is executed that raises eyebrows - done with a celebrity photographer in tow with a focus on H&M in every picture and timed to overshadow HM and the national service at the Cenotaph.
This is the whole crux of the matter. I don't think that anyone disputes Harry's sincerity when it comes to supporting and working with the military. His past actions have proven that over and over again and he is to be commended for it.

The Sussex observance of Remembrance Day, in and of itself, is a wonderful gesture. Many people (and those that write articles) probably would have focused on Harry being "missing from the bunch" this year regardless of what happened. It definitely was the *execution* of how the Sussexes went about paying their respects is what threw the whole thing off and sent the wrong message.

Their dress, for example. They were dressed for the formality of a ceremonial event (even Meghan without a hat). Private visits and observances do not require "appropriate wardrobe". They dressed to draw the eye to them and most likely (I haven't checked) Meghan's fashion for that event garnered posts in her fashion threads along with what the Queen, Catherine, Sophie, Camilla and the other royal ladies in attendance at the Cenotaph wore.

It was so very OTT how it was staged. Sussexes being the prime focus of each and every photograph with the cemetery as a background. You don't see *any* of the British royal family "posing" at the Cenotaph. They were there to do something and that's what was photographed.

All in all, I'm still of the opinion that the whole optics of this observance by Harry and Meghan screamed of them saying, "We left royal life behind but we don't want to be left out and forgotten so here we are being inclusive of Remembrance Sunday events. Isn't that nice of us?"

It's not really what they did but how they did it. Wrong messages tend to stick with a reputation far longer than good deeds do. It's a shame that something like this actually overshadows Harry's work over the decades with his military comrades in arms.
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  #1147  
Old 11-10-2020, 05:58 PM
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When I wonder whether my perception of a Sussex happening is discolored, I usually look for a post by Osipi. No one has been more fair to this couple or provided more balanced takes, particularly this year.

The above post is again spot on.
  #1148  
Old 11-10-2020, 06:04 PM
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Osipi as ever, spot on! It really is the execution of it that is the issue. Again I stand by what I said earlier - a picture of a the wreath or flowers after they had been placed would have sufficed and kept the focus on the reason for being there and not the people doing it.

I wonder if this is a "clash of cultures" between what is expected of the RF (and indeed some might say most people) and those advising H&M on their actions at the moment. It certainly suggests maximum PR is the aim of the game IMO. I just wonder if H&M are truly signed on to that or can't see how the many people will see it and take it.
  #1149  
Old 11-10-2020, 06:15 PM
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I can understand where people are coming from with the unnecessaryness of the couple being in the photo, but one could also argue the same for the balcony appearance at the Cenotaph, and virtually any other time the royals have been photographed at funerals or memorial services. So the argument becomes less convincing.
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  #1150  
Old 11-10-2020, 06:22 PM
Serene Highness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HereditaryPrincess View Post
I can understand where people are coming from with the unnecessaryness of the couple being in the photo, but one could also argue the same for the balcony appearance at the Cenotaph, and virtually any other time the royals have been photographed at funerals or memorial services. So the argument becomes less convincing.
They are at public events. Harry and Meghan just have to keep themselves relevant. Harry has a life long commitment to the military. That had nothing to do with this. This is like the things they do now, ill judged and a way to stay famous. Same with Diana photshoot. It just smacks of desperation.
  #1151  
Old 11-10-2020, 06:23 PM
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My English is too poor to express exactly what I felt when seeing the pictures,
and I really tried to avoid any news about this weird couple,
but my feeling is whenever I think they can't go lower they manage to surprise me in a negative way.
How can anybody pose on a cemetary?
What went wrong in Harry's education and upbringing that he does not even have a glimpse of decency?
Things can be done in private if honestly felt deeply emotional. I disagree with some here who still uphold H's past in the military as if this makes him something special or almost untouchable. Again he proofed he does not even understand the essentials, but is ready to use really every thing for publicity. 2020 we like to say "how dare you"!
Disgusting H&M, let's see what is next going downstairs (for I will try to ignore it as far as possible).
  #1152  
Old 11-10-2020, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poppy7 View Post
They are at public events. Harry and Meghan just have to keep themselves relevant. Harry has a life long commitment to the military. That had nothing to do with this. This is like ,or things they do now, ill judged and a way to stay famous.
Still the argument that they should have posted a photo of flowers instead of themselves to show they are involved speaks true for public events and official press release photos. The Cambridges shared photos and videos of themselves speaking privately this year and have done in the past too (yes, there were some videos of them speaking officially to veterans and other war survivors, but the point stands).

I'm also going to remind people of the actual photo in question:
http://www.noblesseetroyautes.com/wp...4904949850.jpg

The couple are photographed in a way where you can't see all of their faces from a distance and there is more focus on the graves of the war dead, from the way I saw it.
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"For beautiful eyes, look for the good in others; for beautiful lips, speak only words of kindness; and for poise, walk with the knowledge that you are never alone". Audrey Hepburn

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"Think of all the beauty still left around you and be happy". Anne Frank
  #1153  
Old 11-10-2020, 06:33 PM
Serene Highness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HereditaryPrincess View Post
Still the argument that they should have posted a photo of flowers instead of themselves to show they are involved speaks true for public events and official press release photos. The Cambridges shared photos and videos of themselves speaking privately this year and have done in the past too (yes, there were some videos of them speaking officially to veterans and other war survivors, but the point stands).

I'm also going to remind people of the actual photo in question:
http://www.noblesseetroyautes.com/wp...4904949850.jpg

The couple are photographed in a way where you can't see all of their faces from a distance and there is more focus on the graves of the war dead, from the way I saw it.
It doesnt really stand. The royals are trapped in a tripod of them, public works, media. Harry is not. He is not required to promote a country, it's works and celebrate its people. Two things are nothing alike. Harry had no one to promote but themselves.
  #1154  
Old 11-10-2020, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HereditaryPrincess View Post
Still the argument that they should have posted a photo of flowers instead of themselves to show they are involved speaks true for public events and official press release photos. The Cambridges shared photos and videos of themselves speaking privately this year and have done in the past too (yes, there were some videos of them speaking officially to veterans and other war survivors, but the point stands).

I'm also going to remind people of the actual photo in question:
http://www.noblesseetroyautes.com/wp...4904949850.jpg

The couple are photographed in a way where you can't see all of their faces from a distance and there is more focus on the graves of the war dead, from the way I saw it.

I believe that the difference between Harry and Meghan's photos and those of the Queen, Cambridges, etc., is that the latter are official working royals, so the public wants to see them at work (and at play, sometimes inappropriately). Harry and Meghan are not official representatives of the Crown.



It may be that the photos were Harry and Meghan's response to the exclusion of "Harry's wreath" from the Remembrance Sunday ceremony. I understand that none of the BRF actually lay wreaths on their own behalf; it wouldn't surprise me if the Palace courtiers told Harry "no", not because of spite, but because it would be so irregular for him to lay a private wreath. Rightly or wrongly, these folks are not known for their flexibilty.



If Harry's request and the Palace decision were leaked by the Palace, then I would call that mean-spirited. I am not, however, convinced that Harry and Meghan did not leak the story themselves. If they were not the source, I can understand it if they were annoyed (at the very least, they like to control their own narrative; at the most, Harry might have been hurt by the perceived slight). Let's remember that even if the Palace was correct in its refusal of Harry's request, the relationship between the couple and the Palace is not good, so Harry may not have been receptive to a logical explanation.



What a mess. I don't think Harry and Meghan are helping the situation and they may be deliberately making it worse, but it is also possible that the Palace Establishment likes to "pour fuel on the fire."
  #1155  
Old 11-10-2020, 06:48 PM
Majesty
 
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Harry had no one to promote but himself? He must have lied then, when he spoke very movingly in the podcast Declassified about what Remembrance Day and serving with his comrades has always meant to him.

He could not get back to the UK because of Covid and wouldn't have been part of the Remembrance Sunday observations anyway if he had been there. He is in California so he went to a national cemetery (with Meghan) to commemorate fallen comrades. I believe he was thinking of them in that cemetery. I also believe he was sincere when he placed flowers on two graves of Commonwealth servicemen who never came home, like some of those he served with in Afghanistan.

And I also believe that when he placed that wreath in the cemetery Harry wasn't thinking of promotion of himself, but of Remembrance Sunday in Britain, and of men and women serving in a war zone and facing death as part of their job even today. And what's more, I don't believe those feelings will ever leave him.
  #1156  
Old 11-10-2020, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Harry had no one to promote but himself? He must have lied then, when he spoke very movingly in the podcast Declassified about what Remembrance Day and serving with his comrades has always meant to him.

He could not get back to the UK because of Covid and wouldn't have been part of the Remembrance Sunday observations anyway if he had been there. He is in California so he went to a national cemetery (with Meghan) to commemorate fallen comrades. I believe he was thinking of them in that cemetery. I also believe he was sincere when he placed flowers on two graves of Commonwealth servicemen who never came home, like some of those he served with in Afghanistan.

And I also believe that when he placed that wreath in the cemetery Harry wasn't thinking of promotion of himself, but of Remembrance Sunday in Britain, and of men and women serving in a war zone and facing death as part of their job even today. And what's more, I don't believe those feelings will ever leave him.
He was not promoting the armed forces. That is no longer his job. He was advertising his support of remembrance day...not remembrance day.
  #1157  
Old 11-10-2020, 07:27 PM
Majesty
 
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Many many people in all walks of life both promote and support the armed forces whenever they can, and don't regard it as 'a job'. I don't believe Harry was advertising anything, except his support for those serving in the armed forces, veterans and the Fallen of both wars when he laid those floral tributes.
  #1158  
Old 11-10-2020, 07:38 PM
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Prince Harry along with Bruce Springsteen, Jon Stewart, as well as Sheryl Crow, Tiffany Haddish, Brad Paisley, Ray Romano, and Patti Scialfa will appear in the Virtual ‘Stand Up for Heroes’ Event. This event will be air on November 18th at 9:00 pm EST on ABC News Live, TikTok, Facebook Watch, Cheddar, Twitch, and Armed Forces Network.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...event-1087877/
  #1159  
Old 11-10-2020, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HereditaryPrincess View Post
I can understand where people are coming from with the unnecessaryness of the couple being in the photo, but one could also argue the same for the balcony appearance at the Cenotaph, and virtually any other time the royals have been photographed at funerals or memorial services. So the argument becomes less convincing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HereditaryPrincess View Post
Still the argument that they should have posted a photo of flowers instead of themselves to show they are involved speaks true for public events and official press release photos. The Cambridges shared photos and videos of themselves speaking privately this year and have done in the past too (yes, there were some videos of them speaking officially to veterans and other war survivors, but the point stands).

I'm also going to remind people of the actual photo in question:
http://www.noblesseetroyautes.com/wp...4904949850.jpg

The couple are photographed in a way where you can't see all of their faces from a distance and there is more focus on the graves of the war dead, from the way I saw it.
The big and essential difference is that they, by their own choice, are no longer representing the British royal family. They are, therefore, in a completely different position than 'the royals' that actually have a role to play in the British monarchy.

If they wanted to be able to do 'comparable' things to the rest of the family they should have remained within the firm and would have been perfectly welcome to do so. However, right now, they only are representing themselves - just like any other ordinary citizen. And it's quite presumptuous to organize own remembrance (even place a wreath on a stand - but not truly remembering but making a more general statement about veterans and those currently serving) as if you are your own royal family - but of a competing branch.

As private citizens, some kind of message on their social media account acknowledging Remembrance Sunday would be completely in line with what others, especially those with a link to the military, might do. Staging a 'personal remembrance' with a photographer and releasing those pictures to the press is not.
  #1160  
Old 11-10-2020, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Harry had no one to promote but himself? He must have lied then, when he spoke very movingly in the podcast Declassified about what Remembrance Day and serving with his comrades has always meant to him.

He could not get back to the UK because of Covid and wouldn't have been part of the Remembrance Sunday observations anyway if he had been there. He is in California so he went to a national cemetery (with Meghan) to commemorate fallen comrades. I believe he was thinking of them in that cemetery. I also believe he was sincere when he placed flowers on two graves of Commonwealth servicemen who never came home, like some of those he served with in Afghanistan.

And I also believe that when he placed that wreath in the cemetery Harry wasn't thinking of promotion of himself, but of Remembrance Sunday in Britain, and of men and women serving in a war zone and facing death as part of their job even today. And what's more, I don't believe those feelings will ever leave him.
I would sincerely hope so but why did he think of bringing a photographer with hem to do so. He clearly wasn't only thinking about Remembrance Sunday in that instance but very much also about showing the world that he cared. That's what made it about them... Not them visiting per se.
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