The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 1: September-December 2020

[Durham]

Originally Posted by Curryong

No, it isn't about any individual members of the BRF. It is about the Fallen in two World Wars and more recent conflicts. Which Harry, as an ex service man, who served in combat, has every right to observe and honour. Have any of the courtiers who knocked back his request for a wreath to be laid at the Cenotaph ever seen a shot fired in anger?

I have no issue with any of that. Like any ex-serviceman he can mark the day as he wishes. And he has done so. Exactly as he wishes. And let the world know. Presumably because he felt the need to. The reality is that he didn't have to but this is par for the course.

[AC21091968]

Originally Posted by Madame Verseau

Jerk move by House Windsor for not letting a wreath by Harry be lain. It would also have been a symbol that the family was still working things out. Harry served in a combat zone so he has the right to honor the fallen. I have no problem about the photographer there; the press would have twisted it that Harry didn't care and there is no photographic evidence. The Sussexes may be seen on US Veterans Day. Meghan's maternal grandfather apparently served in the US Coast Guard.

I disagree, I think Buckingham Palace did the right thing. Harry and Meghan walked away from royal duties. With their recent potential "interference" in US politics and almost using the argument of "being US residents" or US citizen (in Meghan's case), they cannot be expected to be fully representing the UK. The act of laying a wreath at the Cenotaph is representing UK, not himself nor royal family. By having Harry laying a wreath by proxy, it would create "a half-in, half-out" narrative, which I think would not go well, especially with the recent YouGov poll.

Some poster have mentioned about Prince Michael of Kent laying a wreath in 2018, despite not being a working royal. Prince Michael himself served in the British Army and has represented the Queen in foreign countries. He didn't "walk out" like Harry and Meghan did throughout this year.

[Durham]

Originally Posted by Denville

True the actual date for Remembrance day is the 11th and many observe a 2 minute silence then. But in order to have a public rememBbrance servce with the RF and the veterans in attendance, it is held on the Sunday nearest to 11th, which falls on the 8th this year.

Yes Remembrance Day is the 11th. Today is Remembrance Sunday strictly speaking. The 11th is Armistice Day as well of course.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Durham

Yes Remembrance Day is the 11th. Today is Remembrance Sunday strictly speaking. The 11th is Armistice Day as well.

Sadly there have been less poppies for sale this year, due to Covid. I htink its the first year since I moved to the UK that I haven't had one...

[Sandy345]

It is about veterans and I think any attention to them should be welcome. And if some really constructive help will be given veterans in need it is a real plus. Some have trouble getting medical care and there have been delays in their even getting medicine.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Sandy345

It is about veterans and I think any attention to them should be welcome. And if some really constructive help will be given veterans in need it is a real plus. Some have trouble getting medical care and there have been delays in their even getting medicine.

i dont quite see what Harry having himself photographed at a miltiary cemetery will do for veterans....

[TLLK]

Originally Posted by Denville

Sadly there have been less poppies for sale this year, due to Covid. I htink its the first year since I moved to the UK that I haven't had one...

That is a sad loss for this year as the poppy sales do benefit the veterans.

[Sandy345]

Just my take on it. The veterans are honored living and deceased and the deceased's next of kin would IMO appreciate it and veterans alive today would appreciate their deceased "mates" being honored.

[Durham]

Originally Posted by Sandy345

It is about veterans and I think any attention to them should be welcome. And if some really constructive help will be given veterans in need it is a real plus. Some have trouble getting medical care and there have been delays in their even getting medicine.

Well actually it's not just not about veterans. The poppy appeal raise funds for ex servicemen & women but Remembrance Sunday is the national act of remembering the dead. Cenotaph means empty tomb & it became a place for the bereaved to mourn since a decision had been made to leave the war dead in Flanders & France. It literally represents the absent dead.

This is understood in Britain. I don't want to come across as rude but maybe some attempt to understand the context here might be useful.

[TLLK]

Originally Posted by Denville

i dont quite see what Harry having himself photographed at a miltiary cemetery will do for veterans....

In the U.S. our day to remember our war dead is Memorial Day (last Monday in May) and that is when you typically see cemeteries being decorated and large ceremonies to honor the deceased. My children participated in flag planting events at the National Cemetery in Los Angeles when they were in Scouting.



Veteran's Day which is celebrated on November 11 every year, honors all Veterans living and deceased. There are events, but IMHO Memorial Day is closer to the UK's Remembrance Sunday. There is a large Veteran's Administration hospital in Los Angeles very close to the cemetery, so if Prince Harry wishes to become involved as a volunteer, it's something that could be beneficial to veterans. At this point in time it might have to be done via Skype/Zoom, but it could be worthwhile for him and them.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by TLLK

That is a sad loss for this year as the poppy sales do benefit the veterans.

Well that's the ;point.. But Im not out much at present. I dont think I've seen anyone wearing one in my locality... because I suppose they're hard to get....

[TLLK]

Originally Posted by Durham

Well actually it's not just not about veterans. The poppy appeal raise funds for ex servicemen & women but Remembrance Sunday is the national act of remembering the dead. Cenotaph means empty tomb & it became a place for the bereaved to mourn since a decision had been made to leave the war dead in Flanders & France. It literally represents the absent dead.

This is understood in Britain. I don't want to come across as rude but maybe some attempt to understand the context here might be useful.

Thank you for taking the time to explain this Durham as there is a difference between Remembrance Sunday in the UK and Veteran's Day in the U.S.

[HighGoalHighDreams]

Originally Posted by Sandy345

Just my take on it. The veterans are honored living and deceased and the deceased's next of kin would IMO appreciate it and veterans alive today would appreciate their deceased "mates" being honored.

My father lays in one of these cemeteries and I immediately felt a physically ill sensation. I thought of the honor of burying him, the flag, the gun salute, I thought of the solemnity of laying a wreath there in solitude every year, and the thought that any public figure would bring a camera crew onto the grounds of a veteran's cemetery for their own purposes is such an unsettling feeling.

I am honestly floored at the idea that doing so to stave off personal criticism (that people might have "been mean to him" had he not done it) would somehow be a justification.

[poppy7]

They just live in some stupid, fantasy, la la world. Harry, unlike other members of his family, actually thinks he is important. He didn't get the 'role' was important. Why on earth would he now lay a wreath at the cenotaph? And then they do a stupid photocall. Behaving like vacuous dolls. Nonsense. Any excuse for some publicity.

[Denville]

does teh US have a national act of remebmberance on the May day @TLLK? if you saw any of the UK things this week, it is 100 years since the burial of the Unknown Soldier in Westminster Abbey, where a single body was returned from France to the UK to be buried, as an act of honour and remembrance to those who had died in the Great War and were buried in France and Belgium,,,

[Curryong]

Harry didn't bring 'a camera crew' into the cemetery at all. There was one photographer. And if any member of the BRF is respectful of dead service men and women it's Harry. He's worked with vets and service people regularly for over a decade.

Harry laid flowers on the graves of two Commonwealth servicemen. One from Australia, one from Canada.

Harry and Meghan laid flowers picked from their garden at the graves of two Commonwealth soldiers - one from the Riyal Australian Airforce and one from the Royals Canadian Artillery. And Harry laid a wreath. He wrote “To all of those who have served, are are serving. Thank you.” pic.twitter.com/jZ5MYwRR71

— Chris Ship (@chrisshipitv) November 8, 2020
In photos taken by Lee Morgan, the duke and duchess are seen wearing poppies, the commemorative symbol of Remembrance Day, on their lapels.

Harry also wore three medals: his 2002 Queen's Golden Jubilee medal, 2008 Afghanistan Operational Service medal, and 2012 Queen's Diamond Jubilee medal.

[AC21091968]

Originally Posted by TLLK

Thank you for taking the time to explain this Durham as there is a difference between Remembrance Sunday in the UK and Veteran's Day in the U.S.

It's also different in Australia and New Zealand as well, where there are ANZAC day (25th April) and Remembrance day (11th November). According to Chris Widenbar from the Australian War Memorial.

"Anzac Day is a day for commemoration, for thanking the veterans and it's also part of our national story. Remembrance Day, on the other hand, is solely about remembrance. It's solely about remembering those 102,800 Australians who have given their lives for us."

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/remembra...-war-historian

Going back to Harry & Meghan, I think bringing in a photographer gives a wrong optic and perceived as "self-publication". They could have just lay the wreath privately.

[poppy7]

Originally Posted by HighGoalHighDreams

My father lays in one of these cemeteries and I immediately felt a physically ill sensation. I thought of the honor of burying him, the flag, the gun salute, I thought of the solemnity of laying a wreath there in solitude every year, and the thought that any public figure would bring a camera crew onto the grounds of a veteran's cemetery for their own purposes is such an unsettling feeling.

I am honestly floored at the idea that doing so to stave off personal criticism (that people might have "been mean to him" had he not done it) would somehow be a justification.

People wouldnt care he didn't do it because people are now forgetting him. Time moves on. No reason to do that. They wanted to leave.

[Heavs]

Originally Posted by Curryong

No, it isn't about any individual members of the BRF. It is about the Fallen in two World Wars and more recent conflicts. Which Harry, as an ex service man, who served in combat, has every right to observe and honour. Have any of the courtiers who knocked back his request for a wreath to be laid at the Cenotaph ever seen a shot fired in anger?

Some of them, but it's not even about that.

They have made it all about themselves and not about the fallen with this gesture. "Look at us, with our camera crew (sorry one photographer) being royal, in case you'd forgotten we exist when looking at pictures of the BRF commemorating the most solemn. respected, massively well attended events (usually) in the national psyche!" Complete with leak to the papers earlier in the day.

They're in between a "rock and a hard place" because they don't want to be forgotten and they're in danger of losing the royal polish from national events. They want to be their version of royalty and to do that they have show why they're special and a step up from the rest of the progressive philanthropic famous crowd in LA and surrounding areas.

Yes Harry works with veterans and Invictus is great, but so do other members of the BRF. This was mostly there for self publicity and personal remembrance a 2nd priority I think.

[Denville]

I had thought that perhaps they had gone inot silence because nothing had been heard of them in the past week or 2....