The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 1: September-December 2020

[Iluvbertie]

The Sovereign Grant paid the refurbishment because Harry and Meghan were going to be working royals - just as it is paying for the refurbishment of BP and paid for the refurbishment of William and Catherine's apartment at KP.

Eugenie isn't a working royal and so will be responsible for any repairs etc herself.

It is quite simple - Sovereign Grant used for Crown Estate properties used by working royals. Private financing needed for any property, Crown Estate or otherwise used by non-working royals. Private financing needed for any non-Crown Estate property e.g. Anmer Hall.

So Sovereign Grant for Apartment 1a at KP and Frogmore when William and Harry were working royals but when Harry stepped back he had to repay the refurbishment costs.

 

[acdc1]

Is it known how long this arrangement will last, I.e. is it something temporary while Eugenie and Jack are house hunting in Windsor or their chosen house is going through renovations, or is it something more permanent? I can’t imagine that barring some emergency situation H&M and Archie would be returning to the UK with all that’s going on with COVID for at least another 9 months to a year.

 

[ACO]

The Sovereign Grant paid the refurbishment because Harry and Meghan were going to be working royals - just as it is paying for the refurbishment of BP and paid for the refurbishment of William and Catherine's apartment at KP.

Eugenie isn't a working royal and so will be responsible for any repairs etc herself.

It is quite simple - Sovereign Grant used for Crown Estate properties used by working royals. Private financing needed for any property, Crown Estate or otherwise used by non-working royals. Private financing needed for any non-Crown Estate property e.g. Anmer Hall.

So Sovereign Grant for Apartment 1a at KP and Frogmore when William and Harry were working royals but when Harry stepped back he had to repay the refurbishment costs.

I don't think Harry had to pay anything. In fact when he did pay it back many in the press all but said no one asked him to and even acted offended that he did. Harry and Meghan decided to do themselves because they clearly didn't want to feel like they owed something to the UK. They volunteered it.

That said who knows what Eugenie will pay. My guess she will just deal with the typical upkeep. Harry and Meghan paid years of rent upfront. I will guess they are letting their cousins live their rent free until they find a place of their own.

Or maybe after sometime they will buy them out the lease? Time will tell.

 

[Curryong]

According to Chris Ship Frogmore Cottage remains the Sussexes property.
When they come to the UK they will stay with the Brooksbanks and share the property. And the arrangement has been discussed with other members of the Royal Family, (presumably the Queen and perhaps Prince Charles.)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1329933789208997889

 

[HighGoalHighDreams]

Frogmore Cottage is not now, never has been, and never will be, the Sussex's property.

 

[Curryong]

No, neither is Highgrove Charles's property. Or Anmer the Cambridges'. Nor is Royal Lodge owned by Andrew. Nevertheless, these houses remain their homes. As does Frogmore Cottage remain the home for when Harry and Meghan are in the UK. And it was the Sussexes who made the arrangements for the Brooksbanks to move in and to share when they themselves visit the UK, with the agreement of the Queen.

 

[ACO]

It’s as much their property as the other homes of the royals are the “private property” of them. All that means if it’s their home. They leased it. They put up years of rent, apparently. So that’s a contract.

So whatever arrangements made seems to be good. Glad it worked out.

 

[Mirabel]

I think that if or when the Sussexes come to the UK, they will just stay in Windsor Castle or Buckingham Palace.

But, what happens to Nottingham Cottage or Ivy Cottage?
Who will live there now?

 

[TLLK]

But, what happens to Nottingham Cottage or Ivy Cottage?
Who will live there now?

I wouldn't be surprised if another palace staff member begins to live in either of the two cottages.

 

[Curryong]

Ivy Cottage and Nott Cott will revert to being used by KP staff, I would guess.

As for staying at BP or Windsor, it would seem odd that the info that has been given to Royal Correspondents etc is that the Sussexes and Brooksbanks will share Frogmore during Harry and Meghan's visits if the intention is that the Sussex family go elsewhere.

You would think that would increase the mistrust RRs already complain of when info they're given later turns out to be blatant misrepresentation, as with William's Covid scare.

 

[HighGoalHighDreams]

No, neither is Highgrove Charles's property. Or Anmer the Cambridges'. Nor is Royal Lodge owned by Andrew. Nevertheless, these houses remain their homes. As does Frogmore Cottage remain the home for when Harry and Meghan are in the UK. And it was the Sussexes who made the arrangements for the Brooksbanks to move in and to share when they themselves visit the UK, with the agreement of the Queen.

I'm confused. No one ever said these were those people's property, did they? Or implied that Frogmore isn't the Sussex's home?

I was merely responding to a tweet from a Royal reporter, supplied by you, that saying that Frogmore would remain the Sussex's property. Frogmore isn't the Sussex's property. I was making the point that if the source of the story is a tweet from a person who think that the Sussexes own the property, it comes from someone who doesn't understand the relationship between the party and the house, and therefore probably doesn't have much of an idea what is going on to start with.

 

[Duchess of Wakanda]

I'm confused. No one ever said these were those people's property, did they? Or implied that Frogmore isn't the Sussex's home?

I was merely responding to a tweet from a Royal reporter, supplied by you, that saying that Frogmore would remain the Sussex's property. Frogmore isn't the Sussex's property. I was making the point that if the source of the story is a tweet from a person who think that the Sussexes own the property, it comes from someone who doesn't understand the relationship between the party and the house, and therefore probably doesn't have much of an idea what is going on to start with.

Curryong is right. It’s actually called subletting and is quite popular. The Sussexes are subletting to the Brooksbanks.

The property may not be the Sussexes in technicalities, but they’ve paid decades of rent as well as the refurbishment of it out of pocket. It is essentially their’s to do with as they see fit until the government says other wise (and given that they’ve got their money and have other things going on atm, I doubt they care).

 

[Curryong]

Chris Ship is the Royal Editor for ITV in Britain, has been so for several years, and presents Royal Rota, giving weekly news of the royals. He's a Royal correspondent just as the others, Jobson, English, Palmer etc, are and I'd suggest he knows as much about the Royal Family as they do.

Even the BP spokesman today referred to Frogmore Cottage as 'the private residence of the Duke and Duchess of Sussex'. He and everyone else commenting on the situation, including Ship, surely doesn't have to qualify every statement by going into the nuts and bolts of every leaseholder in the RF, every property gifted by the sovereign etc, when stating something about royal residences.

 

[muriel]

The Sovereign Grant paid the refurbishment because Harry and Meghan were going to be working royals - just as it is paying for the refurbishment of BP and paid for the refurbishment of William and Catherine's apartment at KP.

Eugenie isn't a working royal and so will be responsible for any repairs etc herself.

It is quite simple - Sovereign Grant used for Crown Estate properties used by working royals. Private financing needed for any property, Crown Estate or otherwise used by non-working royals. Private financing needed for any non-Crown Estate property e.g. Anmer Hall.

So Sovereign Grant for Apartment 1a at KP and Frogmore when William and Harry were working royals but when Harry stepped back he had to repay the refurbishment costs.

Thank you for that, @Iluvbertie.

Might anybody know if a long leasehold on Frogmore Cottage was purcahsed by the Queen or the PoW from the Crown Estate prior to it being refurbished for H&M? This was the arrangement used for Royal Lodge and Bagshot Park, where the long lease was purchased at commercial terms. My guess is that is what the arrangement actually was.

 

[UglyAmerican]

We know all the sordid details about Meghan not getting along with her birth family. It seems she didn’t enjoy living with/near her in-laws in the larger palaces, either - if they’d been happy there, they would have stayed put. Harry may have had some input into that decision, but I think it shows that when Meghan doesn’t want a certain living arrangement, she’s more than capable of asserting herself. There’s nothing wrong with that at all - I wouldn’t want to live under the same roof as my in-laws, either, no matter how big a roof it was.

Frogmore’s plenty large for two families by normal people standards, but it’s a lot smaller than the palaces she and Harry didn’t want to share with closer relatives. Harry probably knows Eugenie well enough, but he can’t have spent much time with Jack, and Meghan can’t have spent much time with either of them. If they’re actually assuming they’ll like sharing Frogmore with Eugenie and Jack better than they liked sharing a much larger home with Harry’s immediate family, I think they’re being unrealistic and this arrangement won’t last long. I don’t mean that as a reflection on Eugenie or Jack, but I doubt they’re all that different than the rest of Harry’s relatives that Harry and Meghan didn’t want to live with, and whatever reasons they had for that desire will still apply.

More likely, I don’t think they intend to stay there for any length of time. Or at least, I don’t think Meghan does. I just can’t imagine her being ok with living with her husband’s cousins during in-person visits with her husbands parents, grandparents, and brother that are likely to be very tense. Frankly, I don’t believe she agreed to any such thing, or if she did, it was with no intention of every actually doing it. Staying at the palace would be even worse, so I think the end result is going to be that she never or almost never returns.

 

[muriel]

I think that if or when the Sussexes come to the UK, they will just stay in Windsor Castle or Buckingham Palace.

When they last visited in March 2020, I think H&M stayed at The Goring Hotel. Perhaps they may find BP or Windsor not up to their standards, or may be concerned about surveillance.

 

[Duchess of Wakanda]

We know all the sordid details about Meghan not getting along with her birth family. It seems she didn’t enjoy living with/near her in-laws in the larger palaces, either - if they’d been happy there, they would have stayed put. Harry may have had some input into that decision, but I think it shows that when Meghan doesn’t want a certain living arrangement, she’s more than capable of asserting herself. There’s nothing wrong with that at all - I wouldn’t want to live under the same roof as my in-laws, either, no matter how big a roof it was.

Frogmore’s plenty large for two families by normal people standards, but it’s a lot smaller than the palaces she and Harry didn’t want to share with closer relatives. Harry probably knows Eugenie well enough, but he can’t have spent much time with Jack, and Meghan can’t have spent much time with either of them. If they’re actually assuming they’ll like sharing Frogmore with Eugenie and Jack better than they liked sharing a much larger home with Harry’s immediate family, I think they’re being unrealistic and this arrangement won’t last long. I don’t mean that as a reflection on Eugenie or Jack, but I doubt they’re all that different than the rest of Harry’s relatives that Harry and Meghan didn’t want to live with, and whatever reasons they had for that desire will still apply.

More likely, I don’t think they intend to stay there for any length of time. Or at least, I don’t think Meghan does. I just can’t imagine her being ok with living with her husband’s cousins during in-person visits with her husbands parents, grandparents, and brother that are likely to be very tense. Frankly, I don’t believe she agreed to any such thing, or if she did, it was with no intention of every actually doing it. Staying at the palace would be even worse, so I think the end result is going to be that she never or almost never returns.

Harry and Meghan don’t live in Frogmore and haven’t since March (and didn’t they stay in a hotel then?). Archie hasn’t been there in nearly a year. They’ve made it abundantly clear that they’ll only be using frogmore IF they return to the UK on an extended basis, which, barring some catastrophe, is not likely to happen. I highly doubt they’ll be cohabitating.

This is just letting someone subletting a house. Not two families cohabitating.

 

[UglyAmerican]

Harry and Meghan don’t live in Frogmore and haven’t since March (and didn’t they stay in a hotel then?). Archie hasn’t been there in nearly a year. They’ve made it abundantly clear that they’ll only be using frogmore IF they return to the UK on an extended basis, which, barring some catastrophe, is not likely to happen. I highly doubt they’ll be cohabitating.

This is just letting someone subletting a house. Not two families cohabitating.

I agree, but others were posting about H&M staying there if/when they visited. I thought that came from the article, but apparently it didn't. I just don't think they're ever going to visit.

I'm starting to feel sorry for Harry. Even if he'd truly rather live in LA, which I doubt, he'd surely like to visit his family occasionally.

 

[muriel]

This is just letting someone subletting a house. Not two families cohabitating.

I have to agree with you, this seems to be a simple subletting arrangement.

 

[poppy7]

No, neither is Highgrove Charles's property. Or Anmer the Cambridges'. Nor is Royal Lodge owned by Andrew. Nevertheless, these houses remain their homes. As does Frogmore Cottage remain the home for when Harry and Meghan are in the UK. And it was the Sussexes who made the arrangements for the Brooksbanks to move in and to share when they themselves visit the UK, with the agreement of the Queen.

That is incorrect. Highgrove is a personal purchase of Charles' , as is P. Anne's home. The castle of May is also privately owned, as is Sandringhsm (by the monarch).

Harry and Meghan will never stay there. If they return to England, they will stay in a hotel in London. Windsor is not a convenient drive if you are doing engagements in London. Close, but traffic is a pain and all those royals who live there also keep a pied de Terre. Wouldn't surprise me if Ivy Cottage is kept as a potential for both fsmilies to crash at if needed but seeing as Harry and Meghan stayed at a grossly expensive hotel rather than Notts Cott last time they were here, I would say not.

 

[Osipi]

That is incorrect. Highgrove is a personal purchase of Charles' , as is P. Anne's home. The castle of May is also privately owned, as is Sandringhsm (by the monarch).

Correction. Highgrove is owned by the Duchy of Cornwall and not Prince Charles, himself. It will pass in due time to the next Duke of Cornwall to use if he pleases. ?

https://duchyofcornwall.org/high-grove.html

 

[poppy7]

Correction. Highgrove is owned by the Duchy of Cornwall and not Prince Charles, himself. It will pass in due time to the next Duke of Cornwall to use if he pleases. ?

https://duchyofcornwall.org/high-grove.html

That is just basically setting up a family transfer for tax reasons. With that much money you need to think of succession. They got stung with Sandringhsm because they had to pay the Duke of Windsor for it when he abdicated. Charles bought it and very wisely set that up for it. The royals are extremely canny with money. The point was that they didn't own any of their properties. They do. Charles owns most of his and the others come with the role.

 

[muriel]

That is just basically setting up a family transfer for tax reasons. With that much money you need to think of succession. They got stung with Sandringhsm because they had to pay the Duke of Windsor for it when he abdicated. Charles bought it and very wisely set that up for it. The royals are extremely canny with money. The point was that they didn't own any of their properties. They do. Charles owns most of his and the others come with the role.

Not quite. That Highgrove is owned by the Duchy is not just about managing a potential inheritance tax liability, as you allude to. It is also where the funding for the purchase of Highgrove came from. The Duchy also owns the lease on Home Farm.

Just been thinking about FC, Eugenie, H&M. My sense is that the Queen or the PoW funded the purchase of a long lease on FC, and it was provded as a marital home to H&M. As Harry was a working royal, the costs of the refubishment were funded from the Sovereign Grant.

When Harry left, it was agreed that the Sovereign Grant monies would be repaid by H&M, which was duly done by September 2020. Given the imminent arrival of baby Brooksbank, Eugenie would have been looking for a family home, and it is possible it was agreed with the Queen that FC would be sublet to Eugenie. The £2.4m refurbishment costs paid by Harry would have been repaid to him by the Queen or the PoW. Net result is that the lease on the newly refurbished FC is technically held by Harry in his private capapcity, but has been sublet to Eugenie on a long term lease. Harry has been repaid any monies he spent on the house, so has no real financial stake in the property.

And, all the noise about H&M providing Eugenie with a home or sharing it with the Brooksbanks is probably just spin by Sunshine Sachs to make the Meghan appear benevolent.

 

[poppy7]

Not quite. That Highgrove is owned by the Duchy is not just about managing a potential inheritance tax liability, as you allude to. It is also where the funding for the purchase of Highgrove came from. The Duchy also owns the lease on Home Farm.

The point was he bought it. It was not inherited which was the point made earlier. And this arrangement is the most sensible business arrangement.

Just been thinking about FC, Eugenie, H&M. My sense is that the Queen or the PoW funded the purchase of a long lease on FC, and it was provded as a marital home to H&M. As Harry was a working royal, the costs of the refubishment were funded from the Sovereign Grant.

When Harry left, it was agreed that the Sovereign Grant monies would be repaid by H&M, which was duly done by September 2020. Given the imminent arrival of baby Brooksbank, Eugenie would have been looking for a family home, and it is possible it was agreed with the Queen that FC would be sublet to Eugenie. The £2.4m refurbishment costs paid by Harry would have been repaid to him by the Queen or the PoW. Net result is that the lease on the newly refurbished FC is technically held by Harry in his private capapcity, but has been sublet to Eugenie on a long term lease. Harry has been repaid any monies he spent on the house, so has no real financial stake in the property.

And, all the noise about H&M providing Eugenie with a home or sharing it with the Brooksbanks is probably just spin by Sunshine Sachs to make the Meghan appear benevolent.

Or by the Royals to make it look like they aren't freezing him out. I always felt it would go on to be another royals home. I thought it might be one of the Cambridges though. I also think slowly that the York girls will slowly take on more public duties. Everyone is just moving on. I don't know why Harry would need it for, at most, a couple of weeks a year.

 

[Curryong]

The point was he bought it. It was not inherited which was the point made earlier. And this arrangement is the most sensible business arrangement.

Charles has not bought Highgove. He has never owned it. The house (and gardens) are owned by the Duchy of Cornwall, and he leases Highgrove from them.

We don't know that Harry has been paid back for the full cost of the renovation work at FC at all. No announcement has been made stating that he has. If he has been repaid then it will be recorded in the Sovereign Grant payments for the year next June. Until then that is pure speculation.

 

[Countessmeout]

No different then other royal properties. Senior royals have their main homes they use on a regular basis and other homes they use for weeks here or there. The intention prior to covid was for Harry and Meghan to return for parts of the year, for Archie to have contact with the family, and for them to see to their charities. And their friends as well.

It makes sense though that they allow the Brooksbanks to use the home. They have paid off the renovations and they have the lease on the house. With covid who knows when they will be back in the UK, and even when they are they can easily stay at a hotel or with the couple.

It once again speaks volumes to the relationship Harry still has with Eugenie.

Be nice for Eugenie and Jack to be close to her parents, but their own space as well. About 15 minute drive from home to home.

Still close to London for both their jobs.

We don't know that Harry has been paid back for the full cost of the renovation work at FC at all. No announcement has been made stating that he has. If he has then it will presumably be recorded in the Sovereign Grant payments for the year next June. Until then that is pure speculation.

There is no reason to believe they were lying when a statement was released they paid it back. What would they gain from lying when the knowledge would be public down the line?

 

[angieuk]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ogmore-Cottage-pregnant-Princess-Eugenie.html

What an excellent idea. A perfect solution; as the couple were never coming back anyway. Lovely gardens for the new baby. Give me that anytime. Wonder if Eugenie and Jack will keep Kensington Palace (Ivy Cottage as their London home too.

How did this come about? Were they offered it? Did they ask for it?

 

[UglyAmerican]

No different then other royal properties. Senior royals have their main homes they use on a regular basis and other homes they use for weeks here or there. The intention prior to covid was for Harry and Meghan to return for parts of the year, for Archie to have contact with the family, and for them to see to their charities. And their friends as well.

I'm less and less inclined to believe that their intention was ever to spend significant time in the UK. Harry's may have been, but not Meghan's. Covid is a convenient excuse, but when you have the resources they do, it's not a real impediment. Frogmore is plenty large enough for a comfortable quarantine, and it could be done without exposing staff - going two weeks without the carpets being vacuumed never killed anyone. The same is true of their Montecito house. I'm not suggesting they start flying back and forth every month, but most UK citizens who found themselves stranded abroad after a vacation came home one way or another a long time ago. All of their paid work (if they're doing any) is done online anyway, and could be done just as well from Windsor as Montecito. If they're worried about potentially exposing others, they can quarantine for two weeks before the trip as well as two weeks after. If they wanted to do it, they easily could have by now.

In their defense, I think the statements about their intent to split their time were made when they still have some aspirations of being part-time working royals. Once it was clear they weren't going to be working royals at all, they no longer had the same obligation to maintain a part-time residence or tell the public anything about their living arrangements. Still, they could have saved themselves a lot of trouble by being more clear about their intentions from the beginning.

 

[QueenMathilde]

Well I see from the comments the article I was going to post has already been posted and discussed. I'm still confused though. Does Harry own the house now that he paid for it or does it still belong to the queen? Who is Eugenie paying rent to?

 

[lucien]

He will be back on his knees waggling his tail to no avail...