The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 1: September-December 2020

[Sandy345]

In the U.S. our day to remember our war dead is Memorial Day (last Monday in May) and that is when you typically see cemeteries being decorated and large ceremonies to honor the deceased. My children participated in flag planting events at the National Cemetery in Los Angeles when they were in Scouting.



Veteran's Day which is celebrated on November 11 every year, honors all Veterans living and deceased. There are events, but IMHO Memorial Day is closer to the UK's Remembrance Sunday. There is a large Veteran's Administration hospital in Los Angeles very close to the cemetery, so if Prince Harry wishes to become involved as a volunteer, it's something that could be beneficial to veterans. At this point in time it might have to be done via Skype/Zoom, but it could be worthwhile for him and them.

Harry would be a "natural" as a volunteer. That would be great.

Well that's the ;point.. But Im not out much at present. I dont think I've seen anyone wearing one in my locality... because I suppose they're hard to get....

 

[TLLK]

And it looks like he did just that.

I was thinking that he'd actually do it on our Veteran's Day which is Wed. Nov. 11, 2020.

 

[Claire]

I expected the photo - but I figured it would have been on the 11th as well. And I expected him in uniform.
I expect now that they will do something on the 11th as well. They will not be outdone. My husband figures that BP knew of the intention which is why we had the Queen at Westminster Abbey as well, I hope not.
Personally I hoped that we are not going to have this one-upmanship from the US on Instagram - and when they get their social media up and running only time will tell.
At this point - my husband has placed money on a Christmas speech from LA, complete with Archie for draw. I keep reminding him that I haven't seen the Harper Bazaar. Vanity fair exclusive yet.

 

[TLLK]

I expected the photo - but I figured it would have been on the 11th as well. And I expected him in uniform.
I expect now that they will do something on the 11th as well. They will not be outdone. My husband figures that BP knew of the intention which is why we had the Queen at Westminster Abbey as well, I hope not.
Personally I hoped that we are not going to have this one-upmanship from the US on Instagram - and when they get their social media up and running only time will tell.
At this point - my husband has placed money on a Christmas speech from LA, complete with Archie for draw. I keep reminding him that I haven't seen the Harper Bazaar. Vanity fair exclusive yet.

The Queen was at Westminster Abbey to commemorate the Centenary for the Unknown Warrior. The Palace may or may not have known what the Sussexes planned for today but the Queen's schedule would have been set months ago.

 

[Alisa]

I just reread this thread and it is just hilarious.
Even when the couple does what their critics suggest they are criticized.

The more I think of it the more genius of a move this was.
It now looks simply vindictive of BP to decide not to honor the Duke's request to lay a wreath on his behalf given his longstand support for veterans and he himself being one. But even so had they done that, I'm sure the couple's detractors would be asking why they didn't do something in honor of the day.

So Harry did a most honorable gesture by observing the Remembrance Sunday where he was located. He covered bases by honoring servicemen of the commonwealth and at a location that had ties to Meghan's grandfather's service.
Well done Harry & Meghan!

 

[Roslyn]

Harry left a wreath at BP last March, made by the Kent British Legion, with a request that it be laid on his behalf at the Cenotaph on Remembrance Sunday.
It cost £1,000 and has lain forgotten at BP since then.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-personally-recognise-Remembrance-Day-LA.html

This wreath ought to have been laid on his behalf, IMO, and ignoring it was wrong and I suspect it was a deliberate snub. It was acquired and made in good faith, and ought to have been allowed to serve its purpose. Those in charge of organising the laying of wreaths ought to have risen above any pretty oneupmanship games and honoured the people the wreath was intended to honour. If it was ignored due to genuine oversight that oversight should be acknowledged.

 

[LauraS3514]

Yes we do Denville. It's Memorial Day which is always the last Monday in May. There are typically ceremonies at the various National Cemeteries across the U.S. Our Unknown Soldier is buried at Arlington National Cemetery in Washington D.C.

Click on this link to find out more information.

https://www.rd.com/article/memorial-day-vs-veterans-day-difference/

There is also Armed Services Day the 3rd Saturday in May that honors those currently serving.

 

[Lee-Z]

My 2 cts:
i think the royals who *were* at the cenotaph, were very aware that they were there on behalf of the people they were representing, the people they serve.
I don't think one of them can even imagine thinking "ah, good, i'm laying a wreath, now i'll get my face on tv".

I think this is the one thing that P.Harry doesn't understand and it amazes me that growing up in a family with QEII, P.Anne, the duke of Kent (to name but a few who are ingrained with this understanding) he never *got* this...

And now he's away from the family he will never learn it, because now he's away he'll only see the pictures and judge everything by image, as is proven by trying to get his own image up there on the same day...

Honestly? P.Harry would have been a senior royal for the rest of his life had he stayed with the family (as shown with the D.o.Kent representing yesterday), but never the seniorest.
If P.Harry can't handle that, it's better that he's out and only representing himself..

 

[muriel]

I think a lot of good points have been raised in the preceeding posts.

> I think Harry, as former serving soldier, certainly has empathy with the fallen. He has done a lot for the wounded, and probably misses the opportunity the military associations he previously had.

> That said, whilst he is certainly within his rights to have marked Rememberance Sunday in LA, did he really need to take a camera crew? Is that really necessary? That, to me, is completely unnecessary, and screams Sunshine Sach's attempt at getting H&M media attentiob. Especially for one who claimed to be so traumatised bythe presence of photographers!

> I think the BRF were right to decline his request to have a wreath at the Cenotaph. That is what senior working members of the BRF do, on behalf of the nation. Harry, as a result of his own choices, no longer represents either the BRF nor the nation!

> Some posters have queried that do these pictures mean that H&M are attempting to create a Sussex version of the BRF? For their sakes, I hope not!

 

[Betsypaige]

Harry finally got the exact situation he has hinted that for years he desired. A chance to mark the most private moments in life without the glare of the camera following him.

Frankly, I didn't believe The Times story about him requesting to have a wreath laid because he should know that he is no more entitled to that than any other retired service member. I couldn't imagine in what world he would have made such a request. Until he showed up and had his own private wreath-laying, complete with personal publicity photos.

I'm not sure where people get the idea he "would have been criticized" for not marking this day publicly. This is not a day marked publicly in the United States where this man is a resident. That is like saying he would have been criticized for not publicly marking Trooping the Colour... there is nothing to publicly mark. Only the most self-egrandized of persons could possibly think to create a public ceremony of something that is not a public event here. There's also the fact that... he wasn't criticized for it. The day's media was over in the UK. He had only been criticized for his laughable request as Harry Citizen to lay a wreath at the Cenotaph on Remembrance Sunday.

Do we know for sure that Harry and Meghan brought their own personal photographer? That it wasn't some paparazzi? If that is true, that really is pathetic. This day - just like Veteran's Day in America - is a day to remember the men and women who paid the ultimate price, in many cases in order that we all may live in freedom. The idea that they would publicize this so people would know they care is contemptible...but not surprising coming from the people who publicized Harry's birthday phone call to the Queen, despite her desire that no one do so.

Why does everything always, always, always have to be about them? I have never seen such an ego centric pair in my life.

You make a great point about this particular day not being observed in America. Like I said before, Harry is trying to live with one foot in the UK, one foot here...and it makes no sense if he's trying to make a home HERE. Even if he doesn't mean it this way, it DOES look like he's trying to compete with the BRF.

 

[Betsypaige]

If it was meant to be a private act of remembrance why one photographer?

Yep...one photographer is one too many.

Oh, and so much for their desire for privacy. It seems that H and M are documenting every bit of their life for public consumption

 

[Heavs]

This wreath ought to have been laid on his behalf, IMO, and ignoring it was wrong and I suspect it was a deliberate snub. It was acquired and made in good faith, and ought to have been allowed to serve its purpose. Those in charge of organising the laying of wreaths ought to have risen above any pretty oneupmanship games and honoured the people the wreath was intended to honour. If it was ignored due to genuine oversight that oversight should be acknowledged.

But not all the BRF lay wreaths. Princess Alexandra and Prince Richard, Duke of Gloucester who are still working for the firm didn't attend due to Covid and did not have wreaths laid on their behalf. The only one who didn't attend but had one laid on his behalf was Prince Philip who is retired and the spouse of the Sovereign.

Not everything is a personal, petty snub to Harry even if it feels like it to him. If William for example had laid a wreath on his brother's behalf it would be the only thing anyone was talking about and in a year when many people could not observe the day as they wanted it would have made it all about the BRF drama and "reconciliation". At least this way it's a side show and not the main event. If it was truly about marking the day, which I have no problem with, and not being seen doing so, then they could have done this privately.


The photos were released by "the office of the DDOS" according to Chris Ship so definitely not paparazzi but a deliberate attempt to create a parallel "event" that makes the papers so that the photos will appear along side everyone at the cenotaph.

> Some posters have queried that do these pictures mean that H&M are attempting to create a Sussex version of the BRF? For their sakes, I hope not!

To me it seems like that. They still use their titles on most of their Zoom calls and are doing "engagements" and are desperate to have their own version of the big national events where the royals "lead the nation". It fits with their first idea that they would do their own thing and come back to support the Queen as and when. Because they need to top up their bonefide royal status every now and again. We've seen other royals live private lives, including some in the US, and we've seen others who have no official status who cling on to the titles to attract attention and money. Harry and Meghan appear to be falling into the 2nd category with some much of what they do.

 

[Hallo girl]

I was prepared to take on board posters comments that the couple would be criticised for not acknowledging the event. I see where they are coming from with that, but they have issued a whole series of photographs. One photograph of themselves or even one of the wreath would have knocked back critics like me who say it is PR stunt but a series of photographs, once again the story is about them.

 

[RandyDrx]

Jerk move by House Windsor for not letting a wreath by Harry be lain. It would also have been a symbol that the family was still working things out. Harry served in a combat zone so he has the right to honor the fallen. I have no problem about the photographer there; the press would have twisted it that Harry didn't care and there is no photographic evidence. The Sussexes may be seen on US Veterans Day. Meghan's maternal grandfather apparently served in the US Coast Guard.

Considering Harry willingly left royal duties as well as the country, if he regretted that he couldn't have a wreath laid for him, then it's all on him and not the Windsors. But hey, it's the perfect Prince Harry, he can do no wrong, so it's obviously never his fault right?

 

[Alison H]

I've got a poppy, and I've seen quite a few people wearing them. There've been some in supermarkets, but, sadly, there haven't been a lot of poppy sellers out and about, due to the situation.


November 11th isn't a public holiday here, whereas it is in the US, which is why events take place on the nearest Sunday. I believe that the British Embassy in Washington holds a ceremony on Remembrance Sunday, so the idea of British citizens in the US marking the Sunday isn't unusual, but I don't think we needed a photo shoot (and how did Meghan walk round a cemetery in those shoes?!): it smacked of publicity-seeking. One picture on their Twitter feed, preferably of the wreath rather than of themselves, would have been OK, but not this.

 

[yukari]

Do we know for sure that Harry and Meghan brought their own personal photographer? That it wasn't some paparazzi?
(...)

In all online publication, they credit the photos to Lee Morgan/PA.
According to his website, he's a Afro-American/Brazilian professional photographer specializes in fashion and celebrity portraiture, currently residing LA and his client list include Vogue.

So yes, it can be confirmed that it's not paps photo.

 

[MaiaMia_53]

I think a lot of good points have been raised in the preceeding posts.
...

> That said, whilst he is certainly within his rights to have marked Rememberance Sunday in LA, did he really need to take a camera crew? Is that really necessary? That, to me, is completely unnecessary, and screams Sunshine Sach's attempt at getting H&M media attentiob. Especially for one who claimed to be so traumatised bythe presence of photographers!
...

> Some posters have queried that do these pictures mean that H&M are attempting to create a Sussex version of the BRF? For their sakes, I hope not!

Since Prince Harry is and will always be a British royal blood prince, whose father will one day serve as King of Great Britain and the Commonwealth, Harry certainly has no need to 'create a Sussex version of the BRF.' He is a member of the BRF, and that will never change, no matter where he lives in the world, and no matter that he is no longer a working senior royal.

As well, Harry and Meghan will always be public figures. They clearly have made a commitment toward making a difference in the lives of people in need, and they will continue working to constantly fulfill that goal in a variety of ways. Meanwhile, M&H want their private lives to not be intruded upon in a malicious fashion as has happened to them on a regular basis. They desire to have the British tabloids stop writing falsehoods about them. They have never said that they expect or want to live completely private lives out of the public eye. They chiefly want to protect their son's privacy as much as possible, and they don't want random photographers intruding upon their private, intimate lives, which should be understandable.

This does not mean the Sussexes will never be doing anything in public or that they won't ever make public appearances. The inclusion of one photographer during their visit to the L.A. cemetery was done with a great deal of respect, grace and dignity, which is reflected in each one of the photographs taken by the photographer. My impression is that Harry's sad memories of his mother's suffering at the hands of tabloid photographers is often triggered by a cacophony of flashing paparazzi camera bulbs, which does not mean he's averse to ever being photographed, or to being captured on camera in calm, controlled settings.

An article in Harper's Bazaar provides more details about M&H's visit to the L.A. cemetery to extend their respects to fallen soldiers on the occasion of U.K. Remembrance Day. They laid wreaths in particular on the graves of fallen soldiers of the Commonwealth. Harry also placed a wreath at an obelisk in the cemetery, with an attached handwritten message thanking "all of those who have served, and are serving."
https://www.harpersbazaar.com/celeb...meghan-markle-cemetery-remembrance-day-photo/

From HB:
"It was reported by the Times of London that Prince Harry had requested a wreath to be laid in his name at London’s Cenotaph war memorial during Sunday’s socially distanced ceremony, which was attended by the queen, Prince Charles, Prince William, and British Prime Minister Boris Johnson, among others. But despite it being the duke’s first year of absence (due to COVID-19 travel restrictions and no longer being a working member of the royal family), a source close to the duke confirms to BAZAAR that his touching plea was denied by Buckingham Palace officials. The decision to turn down Harry’s request has infuriated many across the veteran community worldwide..."

My take is that it was mean-spirited not to simply allow a wreath to be laid at the Cenotaph on Harry's behalf. The fact that the Sussexes paid their respects at the L.A. cemetery and that Harry spoke on the U.K. military podcast about his service memories seem to be efforts that were planned awhile ago, independently of any dealings with BP surrounding the BRF's annual Remembrance Day event. Harry's desire while living in the U.S. to pay his respects on Remembrance Day to fallen soldiers and to comrades he fought alongside, should be kept in separate perspective from BP's unfortunate decision to deny Harry's wreath-laying request. Harry made that request in March of this year, as Curryong posted earlier in this thread.

The photographer's name is Lee Morgan. He's obviously very talented. Here's more about him:
https://www.leemorganphotography.com/about1
https://www.leemorganphotography.com/

I appreciate very much how M&H utilize the services of talented professionals of color, including Matt Sayles (who took the recent photograph of the Sussexes for the TIME magazine event and for Meghan's conversation with Gloria Steinem several months ago).

 

[sm1939]

Considering Harry willingly left royal duties as well as the country, if he regretted that he couldn't have a wreath laid for him, then it's all on him and not the Windsors. But hey, it's the perfect Prince Harry, he can do no wrong, so it's obviously never his fault right?

I agree with you , also he could of done this with out a photo shoot, he doesn't need to share it with the world ! but that is just my opinion

 

[Denville]

I was thinking that he'd actually do it on our Veteran's Day which is Wed. Nov. 11, 2020.

Hmm but he made a point of going to the graves of Commonwealth soldiers...and on the same day as the remembrance was taking place in the UK.. as if he was trying to emphaisise that he was doing the same as his royal relatives in GB..

 

[AC21091968]

I agree with you , also he could of done this with out a photo shoot, he doesn't need to share it with the world ! but that is just my opinion

I was prepared to take on board posters comments that the couple would be criticised for not acknowledging the event. I see where they are coming from with that, but they have issued a whole series of photographs. One photograph of themselves or even one of the wreath would have knocked back critics like me who say it is PR stunt but a series of photographs, once again the story is about them.

I think it's the sheer number of photographs of Harry and Meghan in the Los Angeles National Cemetery is the reason why there are critics. From reading at the posts in this thread, most posters have no problem on Harry commemorating ex-servicemen. The problem only arise when they bring in a photographer who took 7 photographs of themselves.

I know that there are politicians who released photos of themselves paying tribute in Whitehall Cenotaph or local war memorial. However, these photos were not just the politicians themselves, but also veterans, volunteers, locals and the memorial itself.

Prime Minister:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1325492713580597249

Leader of the Opposition:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1325494691371118592

Speaker of the House of Commons:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1325472794507960323

Andrew Bowie, Conservative MP for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine (at Local memorial):

https://twitter.com/x/status/1325064836707921923

Yvette Cooper, Labour MP for Normanton, Pontefract, Castleford & Knottingley (at Local memorial):

https://twitter.com/x/status/1325457783144243202

Angela Levin has tweet out against Harry. She seems to agree with some posters here:

Angela Levin @angelalevin1
Harry stepped back from royal life. 2 top military men say he has shown no interest. He's sad he couldn't vote in US and hopes Archie has the childhood he wanted. How rude. Now upset no-one puts wreath down for him. He needs to understand actions have consequences.
12:56 AM · Nov 9, 2020·Twitter Web App​

https://twitter.com/angelalevin1/status/1325437139841126403

Although not directly, Russell Myers (Daily Mirror) has somewhat made a dig at Harry and Meghan for bringing in a photographer. He was retweeting Roya Nikkhah.

Russell Myers @rjmyers
Prince Harry was refused permission for a wreath to be laid at the Cenotaph on his behalf today according to @thesundaytimes report by @RoyaNikkhah, so commemorated Remembrance Sunday in Los Angeles with his wife Meghan and a photographer
7:17 AM · Nov 9, 2020·Twitter for iPhone​

https://twitter.com/rjmyers/status/1325532847097212928

The Daily Mail however, make their criticism very clear.

Daily Mail U.K. @DailyMailUK
Meghan and Harry 'personally recognise' Remembrance Day with their own cemetery photoshoot
8:04 AM · Nov 9, 2020·SocialFlow​

https://twitter.com/DailyMailUK/status/1325544824007778306

 

[suztav]

Yep...one photographer is one too many.

Oh, and so much for their desire for privacy. It seems that H and M are documenting every bit of their life for public consumption

I totally agree. I'm over these two!

 

[moby]

I only saw that Harry did anything for Remembrance Day thanks to comments here, so I googled not knowing what to expect. My instant reaction was cringe--they looked so very staged. From a PR perspective, it would have been better to look less formal and release a couple of photos. Would have been even better if they honored someone they knew or whose family they have a connection with, and highlight that in the stories, just to make it less staged. :/

 

[Denville]

I only saw that Harry did anything for Remembrance Day thanks to comments here, so I googled not knowing what to expect. My instant reaction was cringe--they looked so very staged. From a PR perspective, it would have been better to look less formal and release a couple of photos. Would have been even better if they honored someone they knew or whose family they have a connection with, and highlight that in the stories, just to make it less staged. :/

Or how about not release any photos at all? What they do as private individuals is - private. It just looked awfully staged...and while i didn't take much heed of the story that Harry had been told he couldn't have a wreath placed on his behalf, I do now think that yes they've put out these stories just like they took a photographer to a cemetary to photograph them...

 

[crm2317]

I think if the Sussexes had a social media platform that they used such as Instagram (I realise SussexRoyal is no longer used) then they could have posted one image and made a remark about marking the day. It would not have been dissimilar to what was shared on Kensington Royal or as another poster mentioned the members of parliament.

But to release so many photos, and have them look so staged, just sends the wrong message IMO.

They chose to leave and live in California, to no longer be working members of the royal family and this decision ultimately has consequences. I don’t judge them in this decision and do believe they made it with the best interest of their family life at the heart of it. But they, particularly Harry I feel, need to appreciate that this has hurt many people. The armed forces that he represented, the British people as well as his family will have been so disappointed by his choice. For all their sakes it is time to start using a little tact and consideration for others.

 

[Denville]

I thought that mabye they HAD settled down a bit and mabye they were going to become more private, do a litlte charity work but not appear on Zoom every week or have stories in the media. But it seems I was wrong..

 

[MaiaMia_53]

Hmm but he made a point of going to the graves of Commonwealth soldiers...and on the same day as the remembrance was taking place in the UK.. as if he was trying to emphaisise that he was doing the same as his royal relatives in GB..

The time that M&H visited the cemetery in California would be very close to the evening in London. The fact that Harry paid his respects at the L.A. cemetery on U.K. Remembrance Day makes sense to me. Despite the fact he's living in L.A. and restricted regarding travel due to the pandemic, doesn't mean he has no right to practice meaningful Remembrance Day customs in his current country of residence. It certainly makes sense that Harry would seek out the graves of Commonwealth soldiers at the L.A. cemetery.

Harry exists as a separate human being with his own feelings and experiences. He served in the British military with distinction for ten years. Remembrance Day has significant and personally emotional meaning for Harry. To suggest that he's emphasizing anything other than dutifully and devotedly paying his respects to fallen soldiers is rather offensive.

Harry's words in the military podcast, Declassified, are very sincere and poignant:
"I wear the Poppy to recognize all those who have served; the soldiers I knew, as well as those I didn't. The soldiers who were by my side in Afghanistan, those who had their lives changed forever, and those that didn't come home. I wear it to celebrate the bravery and determination of all our veterans, and their loved ones, especially those in our Invictus family. These are the people and moments I remember when I salute, when I stand at attention and when I lay a wreath at the Cenotaph... Remembrance Day for me is a moment for respect and for hope. Respect for those who came before us and hope for a safer world. Even when we can't all be together, we always remember together.”
https://www.harpersbazaar.com/celebrity/latest/a34607935/prince-harry-surprise-military-podcast/

A friend and veteran, Dean Stott, whom Harry served with in the British military posted this statement in support:
“Prince Harry served his country in combat. Since leaving the military he has gone above and beyond for the veteran community and continues to do so. If anyone has earned the right to lay a wreath at the cenotaph, then it is him.”
https://www.harpersbazaar.com/celeb...meghan-markle-cemetery-remembrance-day-photo/

 

[Claire]

I can completely understand why the palace refused their request. The Queen hold the Remembrance Services as sacrosanct. Everything from divorces, family arguments and everything in between was placed on hold or told to be moved aside for Remembrance Day by order.
Harry knows this - so his actions show very bad judgement. I simply do not know what he was hoping for. Personal I think the rejection was what was wanted and expected.

I have been told by a number of people that Harry simply needs to wait around. Prince Charles has promised to give him his half half royal life as soon as he is King. All he has to do is wait. But H& M are worried about his popularity and reputation at the moment so I expect more PR like this so that it can be used later.

 

[Hallo girl]

Q1. How do we know the story of being refused the wreath is correct?

Secondly I was just thinking how quiet the forums have been lately but once again we are back debating their actions, they have made the event about them again.

 

[Hallo girl]

I can completely understand why the palace refused their request. The Queen hold the Remembrance Services as sacrosanct. Everything from divorces, family arguments and everything in between was placed on hold or told to be moved aside for Remembrance Day by order.
Harry knows this - so his actions show very bad judgement. I simply do not know what he was hoping for. Personal I think the rejection was what was wanted and expected.

I have been told by a number of people that Harry simply needs to wait around. Prince Charles has promised to give him his half half royal life as soon as he is King. All he has to do is wait. But H& M are worried about his popularity and reputation at the moment so I expect more PR like this so that it can be used later.

I would like to know the source for Charles giving him what they want once he is king. Nobody else has mentioned that, if so they should be lying low not aggravating people.
The British public might have another opinion on that.

 

[Betsypaige]

In all online publication, they credit the photos to Lee Morgan/PA.
According to his website, he's a Afro-American/Brazilian professional photographer specializes in fashion and celebrity portraiture, currently residing LA and his client list include Vogue.

So yes, it can be confirmed that it's not paps photo.

Thanks!

Good grief, this is really pathetic. I wouldn’t be surprised if Harry doesn’t care that he was turned down about the wreath, that he was perfectly happy with the media knowing that he’d asked. His and Meghan’s need to prove they care - about anything - only makes them look narcissistic and shallow. They care only about appearances. I’m disgusted.