Prince William and Kate Middleton Current Events 7: November 2008-October 2009

[Menarue]

Of course. i won't say more but this is just a variation of "They brought it onto themselves by not doing this and that...." which has for eons been used as arguments to belittle victims on turning them into active counterparts in actions aimed to humiliate them.

I am sorry but I can´t understand what you are saying here perhaps you would set it out a bit more clearly. Not the eons part, I understand that.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

That is your interpretation. Yours and yours alone. To me this is quite telling! As if you were never young and never enjoyed life without bothering about all those people around you!

Yes I was but never dating a future heir to the throne I am afraid, living with the certainty that dozens of paparazzis would be around to take a compromising shot if given the opportunity, what could not only harm my public image but also the image of the institution I might be a represantative of one day.

Of course. i won't say more but this is just a variation of "They brought it onto themselves by not doing this and that...." which has for eons been used as arguments to belittle victims on turning them into active counterparts in actions aimed to humiliate them.

And I won't say more than that is your interpretation. Yours and yours alone.

 

[Roslyn]

Yes I was but never dating a future heir to the throne I am afraid, living with the certainty that dozens of paparazzis would be around to take a compromising shot if given the opportunity, what could not only harm my public image but also the image of the institution I might be a represantative of one day.

I really don't see how photos like this could possibly harm the image of the monarchy. Kate does need a bit of advice about necklines and how to enter and leave a vehicle when one is almost certain to be photographed doing it, but otherwise I think most people are going to feel sympathy towards her and antipathy towards the vultures who lie in wait with their motordrives in hand hoping to get a shot of their undies or some other "malfunction" which will embarrass their quarry.

 

[Menarue]

I would think this kind of image would do more harm to Kate than to the monarchy, she isn´t in the BRF yet and I am sure there is much interest from all quarters in what is being said (and shown) about her by the press. I actually don´t find much wrong with her wardrobe malfunction but if the press shows this kind of photograph and criticizes her there will be plenty of people in the royal circle taking notice.

 

[Incas]

Hmm...I posted the link because of the change in how Daily Mail rewrote the piece with a new angle. Didn't think it would turn into a debate on how Kate should dress. Based on the "she asked for it" comments, I'm sorry I posted. Guess the girl should be grateful there isn't a morality police around to demand she put on a burqa because she had the termarity to date a prince.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

I am sorry but I can´t understand what you are saying here perhaps you would set it out a bit more clearly. Not the eons part, I understand that.

I'm German and in our past this was used to explain why "we" did not like people of another faith/race. So of course after the war this attitude was something Germans were taught to be sensitive about and with good reason!

You simply can't say because someone is caught in a moment not to her advantage by paparazzi that she is "indecent" or "that she brought it on herself" when she did not build the car/taxi whatever which forced her to go out that way. It is exactly the same way of thinking that goes against the victims of sexual harrassment either. While I personally wish Catherine Middleton would wear a different style of clothes, she should not, IMHO, being made responsible for the pics that were printed. This is the responsibility of the editor alone!

 

[Boris]

As far as I can see (excuse the pun), the coat Kate Middleton is wearing over her dress happens to have buttons.
Maybe something here might give her the idea that using buttons to button a coat could actually be a smart move.

 

[zembla]

Her style has gotten better over time...I like her latest outfit at Whisky Mist.

 

[Mermaid1962]

Yes, exactly, Jo! The editor could have taken the high road and not published that picture. But I suppose that he/she decided that people will buy a paper with a picture of Kate's bra.

This is the responsibility of the editor alone!

 

[muriel]

such appearances are harmful for kate's image because the public will see the bra pictures and think ok she's no better than lily allen etc all these pseudo-celebrities who like flashing off their underwear on a night out to ensure they'll make headlines the next day.

I think the va st majority of British people will not bat an eyeleid when they see the picture of Kate. There is nothing particularly revealing about it, just a bit of Kate's bra. Whats the big deal? Its hardly like she went someplace with no knickers on, and provided the photographers of evidence of doing so.

 

[Skydragon]

such appearances are harmful for kate's image because the public will see the bra pictures and think ok she's no better than lily allen etc all these pseudo-celebrities who like flashing off their underwear on a night out to ensure they'll make headlines the next day.

Most of the British public might think, OMG, they haven't learned a thing from Diana's death. I can't see why you are as incensed as you appear to be about the flash of a bikini type top (also called a bra) under a dress, then again I can remember how horrified the oldies were when the 4 inches above the knee hemline first appeared! If she really wanted press attention, there are a great many other ways she could go about it, streaking perhaps!

 

[Idriel]

Most of the British public might think, OMG, they haven't learned a thing from Diana's death.

I particularly dislike how gratuitously Diana's name is thrown around in these situations. The girl was hardly in a situation of distress.

I can't see why you are as incensed as you appear to be about the flash of a bikini type top (also called a bra) under a dress

I don't think this is a particularly important or harmful issue (the flesh colored bra was actually the least vulgar thing about her outfit) but it is non-the-less slightly embarrassing (I'm afraid bikinis as city-wear hasn't caught on just yet in polite circles) and completely avoidable: as Boris pointed out, she has a coat, she can close it, end of the problem.

If she really wanted press attention, there are a great many other ways she could go about it

I would think when those royals and their hanger-ons show up at these Paparrazzi infested drinking holes, it's a plea for attention in and of itself.

 

[Skydragon]

I particularly dislike how gratuitously Diana's name is thrown around in these situations. The girl was hardly in a situation of distress.

Of course you do! However 99.9% of the time that Diana was being pursued, she also was not in a distressing situation.

(I'm afraid bikinis as city-wear hasn't caught on just yet in polite circles)

Really, have you visited London recently where the cut off top or visible lacy undergarment is perfectly acceptable, even in 'polite circles'?

as Boris pointed out, she has a coat, she can close it, end of the problem.

She probably also possesses a paper bag, perhaps she should use that to avoid upsetting the 'apparent' puritans on this forum!

I would think when those royals and their hanger-ons show up at these Paparrazzi infested drinking holes, it's a plea for attention in and of itself.

MEOW Or they are just trying to have some normality in their lives and enjoy their friends company, which clearly brings out the green eyed monster in some!

 

[Menarue]

The description of the nightclub frequenters made me think of a silly Christmas email I just received that said that Santa does have some little helpers, one is called Visa and the other is called Mastercard....
I would never be jealous of these people, even when I was as young as they are I wasn´t amused by smoke and drink filled places full of people wanting their photograph in the papers. Not that long ago I remarked that I had seen the sister of a very well-known woman acquaintance in "Hello" and she was very annoyed and said she would give her a talking to. Different attitudes that´s all. Prince William can do anything he likes and he will still be HRH Prince William with sycophants applauding, any other person could get a bad reputation.

 

[shakhim]

kate is very well educated and very polite .

 

[Boris]

The determination, seriousness and effort put by some posters here into the insistence on not calling a slight wardrobe malfunction by its name is so funny...

 

[muriel]

they don't since in the public view kate middleton has arrived on the level of b or c celebs, wags, attention seekers, social climbers or professional party attendees who go to the clubs and flash their underwear on a daily basis to make it into the papers.

If you have a view that Kate is a "b or c celebs", thats fine - but you must have some basis to suggest that the public think along the lines you do?

 

[Idriel]

The bra that launched a thousand words

The determination, seriousness and effort put by some posters here into the insistence on not calling a slight wardrobe malfunction by its name is so funny...

Seriously! And I will leave it there.

Muriel, I will take up your offer and agree to disagree. I think the subject is a bit too silly to be discussed at such length (and I am guilty as charged).

But I will say I always appreciate how courteous and unpatronising you are when disagreeing with anyone.

 

[Josefine]

is there any public polls about how the british people Feel about kate.

 

[Skydragon]

You are right. I suppose I am projecting my own tastes on them: I would rather have a house party than be caught dead in these clubs (there are amazing clubs in London that have outstanding music and are not besieged by paps).

Different tastes clearly.

You definition of puritanism is most interesting.

Buttoned up coat, dresses/ tops with a very high neckline, never showing a knee or ankle, then follows the too much makeup, hair not lacquered into non moving strands = Head to Toe in a paper bag or something else that completely conceals all the things some posters seem to think are her faults, oh and of course the fact she breaths and dates William!

I really don't miss high school but some do apparently.

You do surprise me, lucky it's not me you are talking about, we don't have high school, here it's state, private or public and I went to public school. - (you do get secondary, comprehensive or grammer schools in the state run sector)

 

[Skydragon]

oh yes of course the usual ultimate argument in the debate ... at the end of the day the green eyed monster must be behind everything. it's getting boring.

Yes it is, the level of jealousy directed against this young woman is indeed boring.

they don't since in the public view kate middleton has arrived on the level of b or c celebs

Anything to back up your view that 'the public' view Kate in the same way as you?

 

[Skydragon]

The determination, seriousness and effort put by some posters here into the insistence on not calling a slight wardrobe malfunction by its name is so funny...

One could say the same about those that would prefer to present it as the crime of the century.

 

[muriel]

Muriel, I will take up your offer and agree to disagree. I think the subject is a bit too silly to be discussed at such length (and I am guilty as charged).

But I will say I always appreciate how courteous and unpatronising you are when disagreeing with anyone.

I could not help but agree with you on the subject of the debate being rather trivial, at best

 

[muriel]

As for the rules of the game, see my post# 167 in this thread. As for the statement, it is impossible to determine what is truth. If the Middletons are so concerned with their image, perhaps they can issue a statement with their side of the story.

I am not sure I am still with you on this. AFAIK none of the Middletons have ever spoken to the press. There was a supposed "interview" with Mandrake, but there were a lot of questions around it, query whether it was a real interview at all.

I don't think the Middleton's are particularly worried about their image (she is reported to have highlighted they do not employ a PR agency or anything) - they are probably more worried about the safety of their daughter, and the horrendous onslaught of the press she has to contend with every time she steps out of their front door.

Vacations, invitations, access to exclusive night clubs, gowns at discount, and publcity for their own business. Peharps, Party Piece is a successful enterprise. At the same time, free publicty never hurts.

a) Do you know for a fact that Kate Middleton has had free vacations and has never paid anything towards the cost herself?
b) Even if that were true, IMO that is a matter between Kate and her boyfirend. It really does not bother me as the tax payer did not pay for her holidays. If it is of relevance to you, that is an entirely different matter.
c) Lets be clear that neither Kate nor her family have been pushing Party Pieces through the publicity surrounding Kate's relationship. It was only very recently that her picture appeared on the website. It is the tabloids that keep bringing the issue up.

 

[Skydragon]

Vacations, access to exclusive night clubs, gowns at discount, and publcity for business. Peharps, Party Pieces is a successful enterprise. At the same time, free publicty never hurts.

Surely everyone takes a vacation/holiday or even two or three each year, none of whom have royal connections.
The free outfits story was never confirmed by either design houses or the Middletons, IIR the story was debunked, the only source for the free gowns story was the Daily Mail was it not?
Kate does not receive 'access to exclusive nightclubs', all are open to the public and I don't recall Kate flouting her boyfriend for any publicity, personal or business related.

These seem to be a prime example of your quote that if a lie is repeated often enough it becomes the truth?

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

I'm sure Kate's high press profile has helped her mother's company in the past but in the current economic climate it is small family owned companies, like Party Pieces, that are being effected and I don't think Kate's that connection with the company is going to help a whole lot at the moment .

and for that reason carole put the picture on the website, how clever, get kate officially on board and be sure people will talk about it.

Why is it hypocritical of Mrs Middleton to complain and worry like everyone else?

carole's company benefitted from her daughters high press profile at least in the sense that people became aware, then carole even pushed public interest in more difficult times by posting kate's picture and now she's worried? if carole was stupid (what i doubt) i'd call her naive, but if she is clever (what i think) i will call her hypocritcal or even calculating.

 

[Skydragon]

I'm guessing you haven't been to Mahiki recently, the last time I was there it was full of wannabes. The clientele hasn't improved.

But it always was. The same with Stringfellows when it opened and indeed any 'new' style nightclub, as soon as it is known that X had been there, even opened it, they flock in.

The idea that "Party Pieces" hasn't benefited from Kate's relationship is just ridiculous.

Even I agree with you on that but I don't feel they have courted the publicity. They were fairly well known among the Yummy Mummy and the country set, purely for what they offered in the way of complete party paraphernalia. The publicity has attracted more middle class purchasers possibly.

 

[Warren]

The very lengthy discussion of the paparazzi and news coverage of Kate's bra etc etc has been moved to the William, Harry and girlfriends and the Press thread.

 

[Ella Kay]

The Mail reports that William and Kate are on holiday at Birkhall with Charles and Camilla.

Wills whisks Kate off for a new year break ... with his father and stepmother

ETA: The Sun is now reporting the same: Prince William takes Kate Middleton on surprise Scottish holiday

 

[Sonjapearl]

And of course, Rebecca English has to say an engagement is "imminent"