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  #1341  
Old 05-13-2018, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
The fact Meghan was told itís against protocol and she explained it away by being ĎAmericaní leads me to believe itís not a love fest between the royals and the people who serve them.

Just accept that thereís a learning curve to being royal and many of Meghanís American ways donít translate well to Palace life.
Meghan is not going to disobey royal protocol on purpose. Iím sure she know that hugging staff isnít really encouraged.

Everyone knows that thereís isnít a love nest between the royals and their staff, but the young royals are more relaxed than the previous generations.

Iím also sure the media exaggerated the hugs too. Thereís a lot of journalists trying to play up the fact that Meghan is an American marrying into the British Royal Family. The idea is to make it seem like sheís very badly green to everything high society. And of course folks will fall for it.
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  #1342  
Old 05-13-2018, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Meghan is not going to disobey royal protocol on purpose. Iím sure she know that hugging staff isnít really encouraged.

Everyone knows that thereís isnít a love nest between the royals and their staff, but the young royals are more relaxed than the previous generations.

Iím also sure the media exaggerated the hugs too. Thereís a lot of journalists trying to play up the fact that Meghan is an American marrying into the British Royal Family. The idea is to make it seem like sheís very badly green to everything high society. And of course folks will fall for it.
Yes, there is a lot of thinly concealed anti-American sentiment and classism in the way some of these royal experts talk.

Meghan is a smart girl. She seems to be at pains to ensure she is following the royal handbook. Mistakes will be made and some things will probably change but as I've said, I highly doubt Meghan is going around and hugging every Tom, Nick and Nancy she meets in the halls of KP.

Much ado about nothing.
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  #1343  
Old 05-13-2018, 02:32 PM
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My thing is this happened in 2016 when they were in the early stages of dating. This didn't happen last week.
  #1344  
Old 05-13-2018, 02:33 PM
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Another workplace hugger, here.

Something to remember is that Meghan comes from the world of TV production and seemed to have very affectionate relationships with her support staff (hair/makeup/wardrobe) and cast crew. Her instagram had numerous pictures of her joking, dancing, and hugging workmates.

With that said, I'd be shocked if she insisted on hugging people who were non-huggers, and if she did say "I'm American", it was undoubtedly to a third party saying she shouldn't do that, and not to a person objecting to being hugged.
  #1345  
Old 05-13-2018, 02:56 PM
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This is actually Huggate - The Sequel.

Who can forget the shock and awe in 2009 when the world was set ablaze by the breach of protocol by two women that obviously took to each other and showed a bit of affection. The proof is in the pudding.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/bl...bama-queen-hug
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  #1346  
Old 05-13-2018, 03:21 PM
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Huggate LOL I'm so glad the world continues to turn! We will survive this....and if we don't then maybe we don't deserve to survive...

Meghan's so called faux pas happened when they where dating and I imagine it was because she was so happy, perhaps grateful that she gave the footman a hug. Very Californian. Im sure she is a lot more restrained now.
  #1347  
Old 05-13-2018, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Some workplaces are less formal, thatís true. Royal palaces in Britain donít fall into that category though.
And you know this because you work there, live there, know the people who live there?
The anti American sentiment and class bias is real.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
This is actually Huggate - The Sequel.

Who can forget the shock and awe in 2009 when the world was set ablaze by the breach of protocol by two women that obviously took to each other and showed a bit of affection. The proof is in the pudding.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/bl...bama-queen-hug
How dare she toucheth the Queen, these silly Americans aren't fit to be in polite society. First its hugs then its bringing pet pigs to the dinner table.
  #1348  
Old 05-13-2018, 04:52 PM
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I believe Rudolph is right in this case. From all the books I've read authored by people that have been in service in the various palaces and households, it *is* quite "proper" with the staff wearing the "proper" uniform for their station.

From Buckingham Palace to Clarence House to Balmoral and Sandringham, there is a specific "code" of behavior that just naturally surrounds these places. The only residence I've heard of that is perhaps less formal is Anne's Gatcombe Park.
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  #1349  
Old 05-13-2018, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
The anti American sentiment and class bias is real.
Yes it IS.. and Ms Markle isn't going to change that fact [sorry]...
  #1350  
Old 05-13-2018, 05:22 PM
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That anti-American sentiment and bias does exist, but you’ll find it more in the media and from folks online.

The younger royals have changed with the times and do things a bit differently. I think it’s one of the main problems in Meghan’s case. Some royal watchers are stuck in the old world of royalty and the young royals aren’t. It’s one of the reasons why folks still have the debate on whether Meghan will have to curtsy to the blood royals. Especially when it’s been established that the royals don’t curtsy to one another, other than The Queen.

We don’t have to worry about Meghan and royal protocol. She’s got this!
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  #1351  
Old 05-13-2018, 05:55 PM
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There is a big difference between ‘being friendly’ with your staff and ‘being friends’.
Security, maids, housekeepers, dressers, press officers, private secretaries etc are employees. That is the real world. Any of you who have staff/employees know that when the line between friendly and friendship gets blurred, there can be issues over how the relationship is managed.

Its isnt about class at all.
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  #1352  
Old 05-13-2018, 05:55 PM
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When was it established that they don't curtsey to anyone but the Queen? Is it just the 3rd generation that follows that?
Meghan's emergence has brought to the forefront certain prejudices that exist in the society of her new country. I've always been disappointed that more people didn't call put the blatant class bias against the Middleton's; the media made it a point to mention her mothers family were coal miners but hardly mentioned Michael Middleton's family background.
  #1353  
Old 05-13-2018, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
When was it established that they don't curtsey to anyone but the Queen? Is it just the 3rd generation that follows that?
Meghan's emergence has brought to the forefront certain prejudices that exist in the society of her new country. I've always been disappointed that more people didn't call put the blatant class bias against the Middleton's; the media made it a point to mention her mothers family were coal miners but hardly mentioned Michael Middleton's family background.
Itís true. The family donít curtsy to each other. They curtsy to The Queen and foreign monarchs. So Meghan wonít be curtsying to anyone other than Her Majesty.

Meghan will be fine. People donít have to run around like chickens with their heads cut off on Meghan following protocol. The class system is at play here. It happened to Meghanís soon to be sister-in-law during her courtship.
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  #1354  
Old 05-13-2018, 07:27 PM
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Just one correction on the curtsy. I do believe they curtsy to Prince Philip as well.
  #1355  
Old 05-13-2018, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by jacqui24 View Post
Just one correction on the curtsy. I do believe they curtsy to Prince Philip as well.
They definitely do.

But I've never seen the Wales Sons bow to their father, for example. So it seems reserved for the monarch/consort, visiting monarchs/consorts and the direct heirs of other families.
  #1356  
Old 05-13-2018, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Itís true. The family donít curtsy to each other. They curtsy to The Queen and foreign monarchs. So Meghan wonít be curtsying to anyone other than Her Majesty.

Meghan will be fine. People donít have to run around like chickens with their heads cut off on Meghan following protocol. The class system is at play here. It happened to Meghanís soon to be sister-in-law during her courtship.
Small correction, she'll curtsy to King Charles and Camilla, and to King William and Queen Catherine as well.

Meghan is going into unknown territory, it is far from certain that she'll be fine. She will be under an incredible amount of stress in ways that she couldn't ever have comprehended.

All this talk about protocol like it's ancient history has me surprised, protocol is what the monarchy is founded on. And it is a class system that Meghan has decided to marry into.

When Diana was newly married she was called out by the graymen for being too familiar with the staff (hugging, hanging out in their quarters, etc). Turns out it was the staff themselves who complained, they found it disrespectful because they are professionals and expected to be treated as such. Meghan may find that people don't want the system to change.
  #1357  
Old 05-13-2018, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Sun Lion View Post
I thought this article by Diana's private secretary Patrick Jephson quite insightful Dman.

To me, these are the "unwritten rules" sometimes mentioned - to succeed within the Royal Family.

I don't think things are so relaxed that these points are not still valid.

A guide to royal survival by Princess Diana‚€™s private secretary | Daily Mail Online


And on another note, with all the Royal specials on TV, I saw some old footage of Diana being grabbed by a member of the public during a routine walkabout.

Although she regained her composure and the security guys moved so quickly and forcefully - it showed how vunerable the family members are whenever they're out. Bad experience for Diana.

(Hope things work out Dman and you're able to watch the wedding.)
I actually agree with what he says, whether he's flogging a book or not this guy has been on the front lines and knows what he's talking about. I don't think the monarchy has really relaxed much at all since Diana's days so I feel these unwritten rules still apply to a large extent. Sounds like good advice to me.
  #1358  
Old 05-14-2018, 01:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Missy- View Post
Small correction, she'll curtsy to King Charles and Camilla, and to King William and Queen Catherine as well.

Meghan is going into unknown territory, it is far from certain that she'll be fine. She will be under an incredible amount of stress in ways that she couldn't ever have comprehended.

All this talk about protocol like it's ancient history has me surprised, protocol is what the monarchy is founded on. And it is a class system that Meghan has decided to marry into.

When Diana was newly married she was called out by the graymen for being too familiar with the staff (hugging, hanging out in their quarters, etc). Turns out it was the staff themselves who complained, they found it disrespectful because they are professionals and expected to be treated as such. Meghan may find that people don't want the system to change.
The young royals do maintain a professional and working relationship with their staff, but they are much more relaxed at KP.

Diana came into the royal family at a very different time than what Meghan and Catherine have come into. The younger generation of senior royals are a bit more relaxed and not too formal. I’m talking about William and Harry; who would prefer everybody to call them by their first names...not Your Royal Highness.

What Meghan is dealing with is a media and royal watchers that pretty much think of the royal family that’s still under the direction of George V. Those days are long gone.

Important protocols are followed by all, but things just aren’t too stiff, starchy and formal as they used to be. These new royal brides wouldn’t survive in those kind of environments in 2018. No one should expect them too either.
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  #1359  
Old 05-14-2018, 01:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
The young royals do maintain a professional and working relationship with their staff, but they are much more relaxed at KP.

Diana came into the royal family at a very different time than what Meghan and Catherine have come into. The younger generation of senior royals are a bit more relaxed and not too formal. Iím talking about William and Harry; who would prefer everybody to call them by their first names...not Your Royal Highness.

What Meghan is dealing with is a media and royal watchers that pretty much think of the royal family thatís still under the direction of George V. Those days are long gone.

Important protocols are followed by all, but things just arenít too stiff, starchy and formal as they used to be. These new royal brides wouldnít survive in those kind of environments in 2018. No one should expect them too either.
That's exactly what I don't agree with, things have not changed that much since Diana's days. It has nothing to do with the attitude of the younger generation of royals and everything to do with a system that runs smoothly because protocols are followed.

It's not the media or royal watchers that are going to cause Meghan stress, it's those people inside the monarchy that disapprove, critique, advise that I believe are going to cause Meghan the most heartburn. Well, aside from her three ring circus of a family.
  #1360  
Old 05-14-2018, 02:05 AM
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Frederik and Mary of Denmark has reportedly made a point of having the family's lifeguards removed if they get to close to them, especially if they get to close to the children. Not because they don't like them but because they feel that the guards can't do their jobs properly if they get to emotionally invested in the family and because they need some distance between them to cope with never being entirely alone.
That said they're said to be well liked by their members of staff.
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