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  #1081  
Old 11-30-2018, 10:46 AM
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Again, there’s no rule book on the royals displaying affection for each other when out and about of duties. Every couple is different and we have to respect that.
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  #1082  
Old 11-30-2018, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Ista View Post
This is a good explanation, and where I land, too, with PDA from royals--actually, it's how I feel about PDA from anyone. It's sweet and touching when you only see it occasionally, but when the stroking, cuddling and fondling is constant, it begins to feel overdone, insincere, and generally as though outside observers are being forced to participate in something that should be private. I thought Harry and Meghan came pretty close to the too much end of the spectrum during the tour, but gave them a pass because it was her first big tour, they had just announced her pregnancy, and she may have wanted some extra support (or maybe Harry was the one wanting the support;-)) I am hoping they will dial it back a bit in the future.

To me it has nothing to do with Harry and Meghan exclusively, although they are younger and attractive, so they can probably get away with more public demonstrations. But if, say, Charles and Camilla were doing the same thing, would it be inappropriate, or make you feel uncomfortable? If so, then younger royals should probably lower the temperature level a bit. I recognize that everyone has a different tolerance level for this stuff.
Exactly this. I absolutely agree with this wholeheartedly. Those little glimpses that are clearly impulsive and usually when they're excited or something has managed to tickle them just a bit and that's really what makes them so genuine and lovely to see. I personally feel like Meghan and Harry go overboard with this a lot and you're right, it does start to feel very insincere and disingenuous after a while. Almost like they're putting on a show. And to be fair, I would feel exactly the same way about any royals who behaved this way, it's not exclusive to Meghan and Harry.

I kind of feel like she made such a big deal about wanting to do good in the world, being ready to take on her new role, etc. and she made it clear that she wanted to be known as a hard working royal and not just an actress but the constant sappy sweet public affection really isn't doing her any favors in this area. They feel overacted and overly staged.

And, like it or not, royals are judged by their body language, their expressions, etc. All royals, not just these two. And I have to say that the constant public affection, not just hand holding but full on stroking, petting, touching, along with the pictures we saw early on of her giggling with her hand over her mouth or the "all of this for me" hand on her chest type of images were a bit over the top for me. They felt overdone or overacted. And I'm sure lots of people are going to jump down my throat and yell about how unfair I'm being, etc. but it's my impression and opinion. It really does apply to all of the royals. For instance, I often think William looks grumpy and disapproving when in reality I think that's just his "concentrated and very serious" face but those expressions and body language movements say a lot and are most definitely something that people in the public eye, particularly royals who are often judged for costing the public money, should be conscious of.
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  #1083  
Old 11-30-2018, 10:52 AM
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There was a very interesting note in one of the articles that came out around Charles’ birthday, mentioning that he and Camilla actually hold hands in public quite often. They don’t get as much coverage as his sons, their every gesture isn’t scrutinized, and they’re not newlyweds, so their PDA has settled into a more relaxed state...but its there. In other words, there’s precedent. And, actually, a lot of it.

I’ve been watching royals a long time, and I remember people some folks gushing while others were clutching pearls that William and Kate were supposedly far more flirty than any royal couple had ever been before! Except that I also remember that Fergie and Andrew were actually more physical and in their time were either a breath of fresh air or a danger to the monarchy, depending on who you asked. And I recall that people were dissecting Charles and Di’s body language at their first appearances (which did include a small degree of hand-holding!) to either declare them head-over-heels in love or meanly holding back on the public who deserved to see more PDA. And as a student of history I know that Queen Victoria was blatantly besotted with her husband and didn’t care who knew. That was either delightful or troublesome, again, depending on who was doing the talking.

My point is, the conversation about Meghan and Harry’s PDA seems both repetitive and ridiculously overblown, especially comments like we saw in the Maclean’s article (which, honestly, I expect more of them that messy load of claptrap) that the two looked like they might tumble down stairs or as if they were competing in a three legged race. Good grief.

Royal love lives have always, always been an important part of any monarchy’s public face, the lovey-doves newlywed phase included. As big a part of their job as it is to highlight the issues of their day and the good work being done in their realm, all of their claim and basis for being in that role is because of family relations, and so they also have the job of conveying the strength of bonds within that family. And part of that has always been letting the world see when married couples are in love with other. This isn’t new, it isn’t shocking, and all the eye-rolling reflects more on the eye-rollers than anyone else.
  #1084  
Old 11-30-2018, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loonytick View Post
There was a very interesting note in one of the articles that came out around Charles’ birthday, mentioning that he and Camilla actually hold hands in public quite often. They don’t get as much coverage as his sons, their every gesture isn’t scrutinized, and they’re not newlyweds, so their PDA has settled into a more relaxed state...but its there. In other words, there’s precedent. And, actually, a lot of it.
Precisely. I remember seeing Charles and Camilla kiss on the lips as she went off to a different engagement in Ireland. Imagine if that had been Meghan or Harry, all hell would break loose. The truth is, this type of thing doesn't get picked up or overplayed in the media because it's not a narrative they are trying to paint. Someone finally acknowledged Camilla's hand on Charles' thigh in one of the photographs taken by Alexi for his 70th birthday VF coverage. Reality is where have these people been? C&C have always been quite affectionate. But hey, let's make Harry and Meghan the odd ones out here.

While I do notice Harry is extra attentive to his wife as she is pregnant, I do think they are just simply affectionate towards each other. I did notice that he was trying to hold back a little at the more formal events before the pregnancy (still affectionate enough for the affection to be noted), but he just gave up with the pregnancy. I think a few of us did note that he was hovering a bit started at the first day of trip. But I wouldn't say it seems unnatural. In fact, it seems quite natural for the two of them.

BTW, since when is holding hands PDA? Only in royal world I guess.

Two newlyweds who are about to become parents want to hold hands or put their hands on each other's back. Big deal.
  #1085  
Old 11-30-2018, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ista View Post
This is a good explanation, and where I land, too, with PDA from royals--actually, it's how I feel about PDA from anyone. It's sweet and touching when you only see it occasionally, but when the stroking, cuddling and fondling is constant, it begins to feel overdone, insincere, and generally as though outside observers are being forced to participate in something that should be private. I thought Harry and Meghan came pretty close to the too much end of the spectrum during the tour, but gave them a pass because it was her first big tour, they had just announced her pregnancy, and she may have wanted some extra support (or maybe Harry was the one wanting the support;-)) I am hoping they will dial it back a bit in the future.
They'll probably dial it back - and we'll have to face an enormous amount of "is the honeymoon phase over", "trouble in paradise" kind of articles. It seems like we can't win with today's press

But I agree with you completely, at this point it just looks overdone and insincere. I also see another layer here (that is, at least for me, quite important) - they are working. And yes, the character of this work is not usual, but it's still work, which means some kind of professional mentality should be put in place. I love the short, spontaneous moments of affection we get from other royal couples, but there's just too much of it with Meghan and Harry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Again, there’s no rule book on the royals displaying affection for each other when out and about of duties. Every couple is different and we have to respect that.
Again, there are customs and practices that are less formal, but they are in place. Every person is different and you have to respect that some people may not like behavior of someone you're currently staning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
Exactly this. I absolutely agree with this wholeheartedly. Those little glimpses that are clearly impulsive and usually when they're excited or something has managed to tickle them just a bit and that's really what makes them so genuine and lovely to see. I personally feel like Meghan and Harry go overboard with this a lot and you're right, it does start to feel very insincere and disingenuous after a while. Almost like they're putting on a show. And to be fair, I would feel exactly the same way about any royals who behaved this way, it's not exclusive to Meghan and Harry.
Exactly this! I LOVE the PDA between royal couples and it took me a long time to understand why Meghan and Harry irk me - it's just the quantity of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
And, like it or not, royals are judged by their body language, their expressions, etc. All royals, not just these two. And I have to say that the constant public affection, not just hand holding but full on stroking, petting, touching, along with the pictures we saw early on of her giggling with her hand over her mouth or the "all of this for me" hand on her chest type of images were a bit over the top for me. They felt overdone or overacted. And I'm sure lots of people are going to jump down my throat and yell about how unfair I'm being, etc. but it's my impression and opinion. It really does apply to all of the royals. For instance, I often think William looks grumpy and disapproving when in reality I think that's just his "concentrated and very serious" face but those expressions and body language movements say a lot and are most definitely something that people in the public eye, particularly royals who are often judged for costing the public money, should be conscious of.
Well, I'm not gonna say people won't jump down your throat, but I agree with every word you just said.
  #1086  
Old 11-30-2018, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Again, there’s no rule book on the royals displaying affection for each other when out and about of duties. Every couple is different and we have to respect that.

Also when in the presence of HM they do defer to stricter rules but when they do their own engagements they don't have to act the same way.
  #1087  
Old 11-30-2018, 11:30 AM
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Lots of straw man arguments here, but that's par for the course. No one is saying anything about PDA's being a threat to the monarchy, or claiming that no one ever in the history of royalty had held hands or kissed--quite the opposite in fact. It would be absurd to claim that, or that there was any royal handbook regarding PDA. It's difficult and pointless to have any kind of nuanced discussion about Meghan and Harry, especially if there's even extremely mild criticism involved. Logic seems to fly out the window.
  #1088  
Old 11-30-2018, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loonytick View Post
There was a very interesting note in one of the articles that came out around Charles’ birthday, mentioning that he and Camilla actually hold hands in public quite often. They don’t get as much coverage as his sons, their every gesture isn’t scrutinized, and they’re not newlyweds, so their PDA has settled into a more relaxed state...but its there. In other words, there’s precedent. And, actually, a lot of it.

I’ve been watching royals a long time, and I remember people some folks gushing while others were clutching pearls that William and Kate were supposedly far more flirty than any royal couple had ever been before! Except that I also remember that Fergie and Andrew were actually more physical and in their time were either a breath of fresh air or a danger to the monarchy, depending on who you asked. And I recall that people were dissecting Charles and Di’s body language at their first appearances (which did include a small degree of hand-holding!) to either declare them head-over-heels in love or meanly holding back on the public who deserved to see more PDA. And as a student of history I know that Queen Victoria was blatantly besotted with her husband and didn’t care who knew. That was either delightful or troublesome, again, depending on who was doing the talking.

My point is, the conversation about Meghan and Harry’s PDA seems both repetitive and ridiculously overblown, especially comments like we saw in the Maclean’s article (which, honestly, I expect more of them that messy load of claptrap) that the two looked like they might tumble down stairs or as if they were competing in a three legged race. Good grief.

Royal love lives have always, always been an important part of any monarchy’s public face, the lovey-doves newlywed phase included. As big a part of their job as it is to highlight the issues of their day and the good work being done in their realm, all of their claim and basis for being in that role is because of family relations, and so they also have the job of conveying the strength of bonds within that family. And part of that has always been letting the world see when married couples are in love with other. This isn’t new, it isn’t shocking, and all the eye-rolling reflects more on the eye-rollers than anyone else.
Thank you! You hit the nail on the head and then some, with this post. Unfortunately the newlyweds can’t seem to do right for doing wrong. “Othering” should be a word in the dictionary imo.

A somewhat different issue but I agree with Jane Merrick’s piece for CNN that for Meghan “the othering has been stepped up a gear”
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/11/28/o...mpression=true
  #1089  
Old 11-30-2018, 12:41 PM
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And the same clutching their pearls are most likely the ones who were and are still up in arms about Charles' "whatever love is" comment, go figure.
  #1090  
Old 11-30-2018, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by alvinking View Post
And the same clutching their pearls are most likely the ones who were and are still up in arms about Charles' "whatever love is" comment, go figure.
I hardly think people should or could be accused of "clutching their pearls" and being that uptight just because they expect royals to behave in a somewhat professional manner during public engagements and are not thrilled to witness what many would consider to be "get a room" kind of behavior. Most of these same people, myself included, enjoy the occasional sight of other royals engaging in a bit of spontaneous or excited PDA and that doesn't just include the Cambridges but goes for the PoW and the DoC, the Queen and the DoE, the Wessexes and more. The Sussexes just make a routine habit of behavior that is very unprofessional and over the top.
  #1091  
Old 11-30-2018, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
I hardly think people should or could be accused of "clutching their pearls" and being that uptight just because they expect royals to behave in a somewhat professional manner during public engagements and are not thrilled to witness what many would consider to be "get a room" kind of behavior. Most of these same people, myself included, enjoy the occasional sight of other royals engaging in a bit of spontaneous or excited PDA and that doesn't just include the Cambridges but goes for the PoW and the DoC, the Queen and the DoE, the Wessexes and more. The Sussexes just make a routine habit of behavior that is very unprofessional and over the top.
I won't even engage you with an answer or rebuttal, or this thread gonna be locked. Everything is there to see, and conclusions to be drawn
  #1092  
Old 11-30-2018, 02:17 PM
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^ You MUST have gathered that 'Pearl clutchers' is an insult often employed here against people who are considered 'less than Californian' in their expectations of behaviour by persons with a place of especial standing in society?
  #1093  
Old 11-30-2018, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
I hardly think people should or could be accused of "clutching their pearls" and being that uptight just because they expect royals to behave in a somewhat professional manner during public engagements and are not thrilled to witness what many would consider to be "get a room" kind of behavior. Most of these same people, myself included, enjoy the occasional sight of other royals engaging in a bit of spontaneous or excited PDA and that doesn't just include the Cambridges but goes for the PoW and the DoC, the Queen and the DoE, the Wessexes and more. The Sussexes just make a routine habit of behavior that is very unprofessional and over the top.
What have they done that constitute a "get a room" behavior? Seriously? They have their hands on each other's back and hold hands.

And give me a break on the professional. When most people think of professional, it's what us normal folks do at work. Since when is any of us constantly bringing our spouses to work? So I don't think same standard applies here.
  #1094  
Old 11-30-2018, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by jacqui24 View Post
What have they done that constitute a "get a room" behavior? Seriously? They have their hands on each other's back and hold hands.

And give me a break on the professional. When most people think of professional, it's what us normal folks do at work. Since when is any of us constantly bringing our spouses to work? So I don't think same standard applies here.
Actually, a lot of us work every day with our spouses. I don't work with mine every day but I do sometimes and neither of us would dream of behaving like that in our professional environments whether at work or at an after-hours work function because we'd be fired on the spot. And I do work with several married couples every day who wouldn't ever behave like that because again, they'd be fired on the spot. Family events like weddings, christenings, etc. are one thing but public engagements are, in fact, their jobs and as they're representing not only the Queen but the country, they should behave in a professional manner. It's as simple as that.

As for their behavior, a bit of hand holding here or there is one thing. The constant hand holding, arm clinging, back caressing are quite another. Simply put, that's behavior that is best saved for private occasions or special public events like engagement announcements and births, and is not only unprofessional but bordering on too intimate for public occasions.
  #1095  
Old 11-30-2018, 03:40 PM
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This is quite a trivial matter (the media must be bored!) though I'm just going to chime in with that I'm sure that the Sussex's advisors or assistants who travel with them on tours and engagements would speak to them if their behaviour towards one another is too intimate. I haven't seen any photos of Harry and Meghan where I've thought "get a room" (more "aw" though that might be because we all have different personalities and preferences - I'm quite an affectionate person myself) though they both seem to be quite affectionate people so it's natural that when paired together for the day or for an event they will display affectionate actions. There are several photos of the Cambridges displaying similar actions like holding hands and hugging such as this, this and this (when you type in "William and Kate" on Google Images, "cute" is one of the most frequent secondary terms). People generally like romance and enjoy seeing the young royal couples share warm moments towards each other.
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  #1096  
Old 11-30-2018, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by AlowVera View Post
Also when in the presence of HM they do defer to stricter rules but when they do their own engagements they don't have to act the same way.
All Harry and Meghan have done is hold hands, smile at each other and placed their hands on each other’s backs. Y’all keep acting this couple is engaging in very intimate activity on official engagements. There’s nothing wrong what with they are doing.

These conversations make me think we’re still dealing with George V’s world. Odd to be talking about this in 2018.
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  #1097  
Old 11-30-2018, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
Actually, a lot of us work every day with our spouses. I don't work with mine every day but I do sometimes and neither of us would dream of behaving like that in our professional environments whether at work or at an after-hours work function because we'd be fired on the spot. And I do work with several married couples every day who wouldn't ever behave like that because again, they'd be fired on the spot. Family events like weddings, christenings, etc. are one thing but public engagements are, in fact, their jobs and as they're representing not only the Queen but the country, they should behave in a professional manner. It's as simple as that.

As for their behavior, a bit of hand holding here or there is one thing. The constant hand holding, arm clinging, back caressing are quite another. Simply put, that's behavior that is best saved for private occasions or special public events like engagement announcements and births, and is not only unprofessional but bordering on too intimate for public occasions.
Have two separate jobs at the same company is very different than bringing your spouse to work. I work with plenty of people that work for the same company, and I agree that they don't hold hands at work. I'd look at them differently if they did too, but that's not what is going on here. People don't typically get a plus one to the office. Typical husband and wife that work for the same company also don't have the family unity as an issue to their job. If they divorced today, no one would be fired from their job. Not the case here.

Again, I was asking what constitutes "get a room" behavior.
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Originally Posted by HereditaryPrincess View Post
This is quite a trivial matter (the media must be bored!) though I'm just going to chime in with that I'm sure that the Sussex's advisors or assistants who travel with them on tours and engagements would speak to them if their behaviour towards one another is too intimate. I haven't seen any photos of Harry and Meghan where I've thought "get a room" (more "aw" though that might be because we all have different personalities and preferences - I'm quite an affectionate person myself) though they both seem to be quite affectionate people so it's natural that when paired together for the day or for an event they will display affectionate actions. There are several photos of the Cambridges displaying similar actions like holding hands and hugging such as this, this and this (when you type in "William and Kate" on Google Images, "cute" is one of the most frequent secondary terms). People generally like romance and enjoy seeing the young royal couples share warm moments towards each other.
All of this. I'm not a terribly affectionate person in life, but I get it. Some people are just that way, and I'm completely ok with it. I don't think I've seen anything that makes me say "get a room" from Harry and Meghan (there have been others, but not royals). It's really interesting that people like to see the unity of the couples, but then if they touch each other like normal people do, it's get a room.

BTW, I'm still baffled by holding hands as PDA. It's typical couple behavior, I thought. Anyone else?
  #1098  
Old 11-30-2018, 03:55 PM
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I'm sorry....but I am laughing so hard! If the PDA demonstrated by Meghan and Harry demonstrates "get a room" type behavior...then some people are having very boring and prudish love lives.

And if you are so offended....then that's YOUR problem!! Not Harry or Meghan's. Why should they change their actions because there are those who don't like it?

Clearly, this young royal couple see it as showing support and protection towards each other. There is no crime.

If you are oh so highly offended...then don't watch. Simple!
  #1099  
Old 11-30-2018, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Terri Terri View Post
I'm sorry....but I am laughing so hard! If the PDA demonstrated by Meghan and Harry demonstrates "get a room" type behavior...then some people are having very boring and prudish love lives.

And if you are so offended....then that's YOUR problem!! Not Harry or Meghan's. Why should they change their actions because there are those who don't like it?

Clearly, this young royal couple see it as showing support and protection towards each other. There is no crime.

If you are oh so highly offended...then don't watch. Simple!
I know! It just puzzles me that these small nice gestures from the couple to each other are being considered over the top. I think some folks have been reading too much of the DF. Sometimes it’s just best to look at the pictures on that site and block out the nonsense.
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  #1100  
Old 11-30-2018, 04:12 PM
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Harry is very open about how he feels..always has been. Hardly a surprise to see him being affectionate in public with his wife. I think partly their touch is to reassure each other. Harry was/is concerned that Meghan is not overwhelmed with this very unexpected turn her life has taken...on top of not being a Brit and being unfamiliar with how that society really works she's married into a family with it's own history and well they are Royals..life in the fishbowl. Plus she's married and pregnant within 6 months.

Then there is the specter of Diana and all that happened to her..they grew up with a front row seat to it.

So yeah..he's wanting to make sure she is getting along okay. She knows he's very invested that she be happy/secure/safe and is reassuring him back. Plus geez ..maybe they really love each other and are so happy they can't hardly believe their luck?


Frankly I'd rather see this hand holding, arm rub/shoulder rub in passing than the very unhappy behavior we have seen in the past. No one wants a repeat of his parents.


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