Your favourite of Henry VIII's Wives?

[Princess Alexandra]

I think that a descendant of Henry, Anne and Catherine would be perfect eventhough that is close to impossible. My two faves will always be Anne and Catherine

 

[QUEENECE29]

I voted Catherine Parr
and Mary Boleyn

 

[Russophile]

I voted . . .
and Mary Boleyn

You favored Great Harry's mistress?

 

[CarolinaLandgrave]

I voted for the Spanish princess.... I have always been a fan of her parents and I think that Catherine would have made Henry (or anyone else) a SUPERB queen!
And I kinda feel sorry for her too - being cast aside by that lusty horse's tail Henry VIII.

 

[Russophile]

Well, you have to put into perspective the times. It was the duty of the Queen to produce an heir. It's not that Catherine didn't do her duty, the times being what they were, the children usually ended up being stillborn, died just after birth, premature. The conditions being what they were, poor hygeine, possible STD on Harry's part. Poor Catherine was pregnant most of their marriage, Ysbel would know how many times. Y, can you fill us in?
Harry felt he NEEDED an heir to pass the line on--thus the wife hunting. . .

 

[Menarue]

I think that a descendant of Henry, Anne and Catherine would be perfect eventhough that is close to impossible. My two faves will always be Anne and Catherine

I am really interested to know why your favourites are Anne (Boleyn I presume) and Catherine Howard.
Anne, in all her biographies was not a nice person. She was arrogant, proud and vengeful, ambitious and greedy. She used her position to get what she wanted, Hampton Court Palace, for one example. She had no remorse and her complete confidence in her own powers brought her own downfall. I find her fascinating to read about, so in that way she could be one of my favourites and I firmly believe that her beheading was murder as I don´t believe for one moment the crimes she was accused of, they were just a way of paving the way for the next Queen. I, because of this have always felt very sorry for her despite her obvious failings and, in a way foolishness.
Her Cousin Catherine Howard was a silly young girl who should have known better. By that time she knew or should have known the full story of what had happened to her cousin.
She was a frivolous little wanton and if she had lived in our day would have spent most of her time reading or more likely watching love stories on TV and her mother, or in this case it was her grandmother, if she had been watchful would have put her on the pill and watched her extremely closely.
Poor little Catherine didn´t seem to have a brain in her head, and unfortunately it was this want of IQ that brought about her end, which wasn´t nice, but for those days was what usually happened to adultresses whatever level of society they belonged to. She did have her one moment of nobility at the end when she made her last declaration on the scaffold but when I think of her it is usually "that poor little fool".

 

[shakhim]

king richard of united kingdom his father was henry .

 

[Menarue]

king richard of united kingdom his father was henry .

That was Henry II.

 

[QUEENECE29]

You favored Great Harry's mistress?

Mary Boleyn and Henry have two children
I think Anne Boleyn is never to deserve.
Other my favourite Catherine of Aragon...

 

[Russophile]

Mary Boleyn and Henry have two children
I think Anne Boleyn is never to deserve.
Other my favourite Catherine of Aragon...

There was speculation that Henry and Catherine Carey were Great Harry's. Wouldn't surprise me!

 

[Velasco]

Actually, Henry VIII was always desperate for a son, even a bastard one, as evidenced by how openly he acknowledged his natural son Henry FitzRoy and from an early age began paving the way for him to possibly inherit the throne, or at least become King of Ireland, giving him suggestive royal dukedom of Richmond, marrying him into the prominent Howard family.

Even though Queen Elizabeth made Henry Carey "Baron Hunsdon" and jokingly referred to him as her brother, and there is some evidence to suggest Mary Boleyn was still the King's mistress leading up to the birth of her second child, we can be almost 100% certain that if Henry and Catherine Carey had been his illegitimate children he would have recognised them, so desperate was he for heirs and spares (Prince Edward and Prince Elizabeth were born many years later; at the time he had only young Princess Mary and the bastard FitzRoy) and to show to the world that he was capable of siring healthy children, that the problem was not with him but with his wife.

 

[Velasco]

I voted for Anne of Cleves because she was a foreigner without an influential family who had the misfortune not to be liked or ven be tolerated by her husband but made her way in her new country to a personal success. Anne cared and protected princesses Mary and Elizabeth from their father. Mary and Elizabeth rarely showed the warm side of their characters but sometimes they did - I put it back to the fact that Anne had taught them that not all people were to be distrusted per se. For Mary Tudor Anne was her father's real widow and she appointed her second lady in the realm after herself on her coronation. When Anne of Cleves died she was really mourned by queen Mary and princess Elizabeth.

I voted for Anne of Cleves too.

However, after the King's initial disgust of her "lose tokens" eek and the "evil smells" she had about her, she won his immediate friendship when she consented to the divorce, instead of making it a big long drawn out affair like Catherine of Aragon had. He was so grateful to her that he gave her the rank of his sister, taking precedence over all of the other ladies of the realm except for his own daughters and whomever should become his Queen. He also gave her vast estates and a princely income for the rest of her life; she held her own court at her country residence, occassionaly coming to court, where she entertained everybody who was anybody, including the King and his new Queen Catherine Howard. After the demise of Catherine Howard, she remained good friends with the King, so much so that people wondered if he would re-marry her.

She seems to have been a genuinely nice, sweet, easy going person, getting on fine not only with the King and his subsequent Queens, but also with his daughters. She was also clever; in that she joined the Church of England so that she could marry Henry VIII, but if I recall correctly when Bloody Mary became Queen she embraced Catholicism, thus keeping herself high in royal favour and saving her own neck She was without a doubt the happiest and most successful of all his wives.

 

[Russophile]

V, are you saying Mistress Cleves had a little problem with hygiene?

 

[Velasco]

I don't know. All I know is that Henry said she had very "evil smells" about her and complained of her "lose tokens".

He disliked her even before the wedding, and after the wedding night (when he felt her "tokens") he became well and truly disgusted with her, making known loud and clear that he was unable to perform the sex act with her, though he believed himself capable to perform it with others, as he had had two wet dreams during the wedding night.

Source: The Six Wives of Henry VIII (book)

Oh, and apparently her mother had given her a very strict upbringing and she knew little (or rather, nothing) of the ways of the world.

The King kissed her goodnight and then goodmorning, every day, and she was expecting to soon be with a Duke of York. Her ladies probed further and further, to see if there was anything more; to which she said there wasn't. One of them then said that it would more was necessary if she was ever to have a Duke of York; to which she said she was glad she knew no more. But apparently it made her worried, Henry VIII already had quite the reputation, and as soon as it was made clear to her that he wished for an anullment she gladly gave her consent, glad to keep her life.

They tried to anull the marriage based on her previous contract with Francis of Lorraine but couldn't, since the contract had well and truly been cancelled long before her marriage. Can't remember on what grounds it was that they were finally separated. Anyways, the King was so grateful with her cooperation that he rewarded her very richly and remained friends with her for the rest of her life, treating her as his lady sister and given her precedence over everybody else at court, except for his own consort and daughters.

 

[Russophile]

"Loose tokens". I wonder what that means. Teeth? Halitosis? I actually thought she was pretty, but then again, Holbein prettied her up and when Great Harry met her he called her the Flemish cow.

 

[Velasco]

Hmm...I believe he was referring to more private parts.

 

[Menarue]

Anne of Cleves was a very clever woman. Part of the problem with Henry was the portrait, it is absolutely exquisite, in an ivory rose when opened has this really beautiful sweet face portrayed. It seems for some reason the painter decided to over flatter! the King was bitterly disappointed when he saw her face and size, he always favoured small built women he was also appreciative of personal hygiene!
A very astute woman Anne, she remained in England with her own palace and household, no money problems at all and she could be a bystander when others either risked or lost their heads (literally).

 

[Grace Angel]

I am really interested to know why your favourites are Anne (Boleyn I presume) and Catherine Howard.
Anne, in all her biographies was not a nice person. She was arrogant, proud and vengeful, ambitious and greedy. She used her position to get what she wanted, Hampton Court Palace, for one example. She had no remorse and her complete confidence in her own powers brought her own downfall. I find her fascinating to read about, so in that way she could be one of my favourites and I firmly believe that her beheading was murder as I don´t believe for one moment the crimes she was accused of, they were just a way of paving the way for the next Queen. I, because of this have always felt very sorry for her despite her obvious failings and, in a way foolishness.
Her Cousin Catherine Howard was a silly young girl who should have known better. By that time she knew or should have known the full story of what had happened to her cousin.
She was a frivolous little wanton and if she had lived in our day would have spent most of her time reading or more likely watching love stories on TV and her mother, or in this case it was her grandmother, if she had been watchful would have put her on the pill and watched her extremely closely.
Poor little Catherine didn´t seem to have a brain in her head, and unfortunately it was this want of IQ that brought about her end, which wasn´t nice, but for those days was what usually happened to adultresses whatever level of society they belonged to. She did have her one moment of nobility at the end when she made her last declaration on the scaffold but when I think of her it is usually "that poor little fool".

I have to agree with you about Catharine Howard. As for Anne, I feel she was a nice person, just not a good fit for her place and time. She was very forward in an era when women were supposed to be quite meek. I feel this just got her bad reviews at the time. I don't think she was foolish- she had it all planned out. But her plans derailed, and she couldn't control her own assertive nature- like she would pick fights with Henry over his infidelity, or alleged infidelity.

 

[Russophile]

As for Anne, I feel she was a nice person, just not a good fit for her place and time. She was very forward in an era when women were supposed to be quite meek. I feel this just got her bad reviews at the time. I don't think she was foolish- she had it all planned out. But her plans derailed, and she couldn't control her own assertive nature- like she would pick fights with Henry over his infidelity, or alleged infidelity.

I have to disagree with you here, I find her cold and calculating and got what she deserved. I do have to say that I respect her for dying with dignity, though.

 

[ysbel]

Well, you have to put into perspective the times. It was the duty of the Queen to produce an heir. It's not that Catherine didn't do her duty, the times being what they were, the children usually ended up being stillborn, died just after birth, premature. The conditions being what they were, poor hygeine, possible STD on Harry's part. Poor Catherine was pregnant most of their marriage, Ysbel would know how many times. Y, can you fill us in?
Harry felt he NEEDED an heir to pass the line on--thus the wife hunting. . .

Hi Russo. From what I could find, Catherine gave birth to a stillborn daughter in 1510, she gave birth to Prince Henry in 1511 but he died 5 days later, she gave birth in 1513 to a premature son who died shortly after birth, in 1515 she gave birth to another stillborn son, in 1516 she gave birth to Princess Mary who lived, in 1518 she gave birth to another daughter who died after a few days. So I didn't find any miscarriages but a lot of stillborn children and a lot that died shortly after birth. Six pregnancies in all but only one child survived past infancy.

 

[Zonk]

Definitely Anne kind of got what she deserved. Losing the head over false charges was alittle dramatic. She was manipulative...but she was being used as well. She couldn't marry who she wanted and she was like Whatever!

There was no need for her to be just plain mean to Mary. What a sad child who ended up being a miserly unhappy woman. I wonder what life what have been for her if she didn't have such a miserable childhood. Its a wonder that Elizabeth grew up to be somewhat okay.

 

[Menarue]

You have looked at what must have made her the way she was Zonk, she must have had a miserable childhood, sent off to France and from what I read she was sent there as a very small child and not a grown woman as in the film. Then when she fell in love she wasn´t allowed to marry him, whether it was just that she wasn´t thought of high enough birth for him or whether the King already had his eye on her, it was a tragedy for her.
She was not a nice person, wasn´t she the one that wore yellow the day she heard that Catherine of Aragon had died? But she paid very dearly for her sins by being executed for a crime she didn´t commit. Of all the Queens of King Henry VIII she is the one I would like to see a lifelike portrait of, as the one we see so often just doesn´t capture her as the seductive person she must have been.

 

[Zonk]

I definitely think she was a victim...but some of the things that she did were just mean. Victim or not. Separating Mary from her dying Mother...yes, it was the will of Henry but still. That is just mean.

Women basically, at that time had no value. Simple as that. She was used by her family to get a head and when she needed them, they weren't there. Its a shame that Catherine Howard had no guidance. What where they thinking of letting another female family member marry Henry VIII.

Anne of Cleves definitely ended up a winner.

Catherine of Aragon - used as a pawn by Henry VII. Husband dies...pass her off to the next son
Anne Boleyn - family is looking to move up the food chain
Jane Seymour - same thing. She is somewhat lucky she gave Henry the son he needed but at what cost to her life.
Anne of Cleves - Winner!
Catherine Howard - see Anne Bolyen
Catherine Parr- thinks she is a winner because she survives Henry, marries someone who she really loves and he turns out to be a loser!

Again...I am surprised that Elizabeth turned out as well as she did. Edward IV definitely had the potential not to be so nice.

 

[Warren]

Catherine of Aragon - used as a pawn by Henry VII. Husband dies...pass her off to the next son

She was cetainly used as a pawn by Henry VII, but equally so by her father, a master of Byzantine politics and secret and shifting alliances. Two ruthless men with Catherine as a bargaining chip.

From David Starkey, The Wives of Henry VIII p79, 82

As for Catherine, what was she? She was a royal widow certainly. And, at the age of sixteen, might yet be a royal wife again. But whose?

Answering these questions took seven long years as her parents and her father-in-law manoeuvred and bargained. Catherine was the person most concerned with the outcome. But no one thought to consult her. Nor apparently did she expect them to.

In the negotiations between England and Spain, Henry VII held the trump card: he had control of Catherine's person. He played this advantage shrewdly and with increasing ruthlessness...

The Spanish faltered:
Meanwhile, Ferdinand and Isabella tried to regain the initiative in their dealings with Henry VII. Their representatives in England were ordered to put two proposals to the King. The first was to demand that Henry VII send Catherine safely back to Spain. The second was to offer Catherine to him once more as a bride for the new heir to the throne, Prince Henry. The proposals were of course contradictory... Henry VII was well briefed about the real intention of Spanish policy and played his cards accordingly.

 

[ysbel]

Catherine herself didn't want to go back to Spain unmarried after her first husband's death. She was raised almost from birth to be the Queen of a great King and I daresay she would have thought that returning unmarried to Spain would have labelled her as a failure.

The ones I really feel sorry for are those younger sons and daughters who weren't meant to be married and instead were raised in monasteries and convents in preparation for a religious life. A convent or monastery was relatively more peaceful than the court but some of these children were pulled out of their safe cocoons when an older brother or sister died.

This happened to Louis VII of France, Eleanor of Aquitaine's first husband, who was pulled from the monastery when his older brother died. He supposedly longed for the peaceful days at the monastery the whole time of his reign.

 

[madeleine victoria]

My favorite would have to be Catherine of Aragon. I have read the Constant Princess and it was really good. I always liked Catherine, too bad she didn't have any sons to inherit the throne of Henry VIII. Nevertheless, Mary is ok too.

 

[Empress Merel]

My favourite is Anne Boleyn.
She is by far the most interesting and fascinating queen of the six of them. Nowadays she would make quite the amazing queen. And thanks to her the UK got to know the greatest queen in the history; Elizabeth.

 

[Elly C]

As a child reading Jean Plaidy books & seeing Anne of a Thousand Days made Anne Boleyn an attractive figure to me. I also went to Hever Castle & found it to be a magical place. There seems to have been so many interesting aspects to her - the time she spent at the French court, her interest in Luther, not to mention her wit/intelligence in keeping Henry for so long. Apart from Katherine Parr, I personally don't think the others can shine a light to Anne.

 

[Menarue]

England should always be grateful to Anne Boleyn for giving them Queen Elizabeth I, a very strong sovereign at a time when rulers had to be very very strong.
Perhaps her dying so tragically when Elizabeth was so small, which meant that Elizabeth had to fend for herself and struggle at times to survive. Anne was vain and thought more of herself than anything or anyone but among the wives of Henry VIII she is the most fascinating. I would love to see what she really looked like and not these strange portraits that have survived, everyone says how bewitching she was and these paintings show nothing of that, in fact in most of them she looks quite plain.

 

[Empress Merel]

Too true. The women look so 'weird' in those paintings. Not really human.