Victoria, Princess Royal (1840-1901)

[Saschana]

I think perhaps she felt guilty for her son's deformed arm, and that also contributed.

She indeed felt guilt. In one of her letters she wrote something like "His arm fills my life with bitterness and I was never happy to have him [Wilhelm]". Maybe it wasn't so much his withered arm itself that he blamed her for but all those horrible treatments to cure both his arm and posture of his head.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

Withered arm or no, Willy was extremely disagreeable to one and all and detested by most of his relatives.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Withered arm or no, Willy was extremely disagreeable to one and all and detested by most of his relatives.

There is the cause and effect issue to consider as well.

Would he have been so disagreeable had he had a normal arm and thus not had to have all the treatments? Did having a deformed arm affect his personality or would his personality have been the same regardless? This is the eternal 'nature versus nurture' argument of course?

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

True, Wilhelm may have developed an inferiority complex which made him treat others in such a horrible manner. It was probably a combination of factors: his arm, his interfering grandparents, and his own personality.

 

[Roderick]

I would add his mother to the list also.

 

[Russophile]

I am reading Sullivan's "Fatal passion" about Ducky and he quotes Van Der Kiste saying the Vicky said that Alix was not suited to be the Russian consort as she was too absorbed with her self-importance. Anybody have anything on this??
Thanks!

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

I am reading Sullivan's "Fatal passion" about Ducky and he quotes Van Der Kiste saying the Vicky said that Alix was not suited to be the Russian consort as she was too absorbed with her self-importance. Anybody have anything on this??
Thanks!

I got nuttin' Why was Van Der Kiste quoting Empress Frederick and her observation about the Russian Empress?

 

[Russophile]

I got nuttin' Why was Van Der Kiste quoting Empress Frederick and her observation about the Russian Empress?

I'm at the part where Ducky marries Ernie and Nicky and Alix's "engagement" is overshadowing everything. Ducky is not pleased--it was her day after all, Victoria is not pleased--not liking the Russians and evidently, neither is Vicky. So I wondered.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

Russo darling,

It sounds to me like Ducky's feelings were justified and it was well known Victoria was not fond of the Russians. As for the princess royal, maybe she did not like her niece and thought she would make a poor consort for anyone. After all, Willy was in favor of the union for the dynastic alliance but I don't believe anyone was thrilled, at first, about the young lovers uniting.

 

[persian85033]

I don't think anyone really thought Alix was suited to Tsarina, except perhaps Ella and Serge. Wilhelm just wanted it because it would be a good alliance.

 

[Russophile]

As for the princess royal, maybe she did not like her niece and thought she would make a poor consort for anyone.

No doubt she was thinking along the lines of "We didn't do THAT in MY day!" Though from the limited information I have on Vicky, can you imagine?? I mean she knew what? At least 3 languages by the time she was 5? Well read, well bred via Albert's influence. And here is Alix. . . yeah. You get the picture.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

Vicky, from all accounts, had a formidable intellect and was probably intimidating to other royals, although I don't recall reading that she was rude to others.

 

[Russophile]

Vicky, from all accounts, had a formidable intellect and was probably intimidating to other royals, although I don't recall reading that she was rude to others.

From my limited knowledge I don't believe she was given who she was brought up by. I suppose a woman with her formidable intellect would intimidate a lot of people. She was her father's daughter after all!

 

[Roderick]

Vicky, from all accounts, had a formidable intellect and was probably intimidating to other royals, although I don't recall reading that she was rude to others.

Not rude perhaps but she was described by one author as `notoriously tactless`.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

I know many intelligent people who are also tactless. It seems that many intelligent people are unable to relate to us "lesser mortals" and although not unkind, they often leave bruised feelings in their wake.

 

[Osipi]

I know many intelligent people who are also tactless. It seems that many intelligent people are unable to relate to us "lesser mortals" and although not unkind, they often leave bruised feelings in their wake.

Why does the Duke of Edinburgh come to mind right now? I'm sorry but I couldn't resist this. His quips amuse me so much sometimes.

 

[Russophile]

I know many intelligent people who are also tactless.

I resemble that remark. . .



Interesting though, don't you think, that Vicky tried to continue her father's progressive views and that didn't sit well at all with the German court? I wonder if that made Vicky and Albert closer?

 

[Marie of The Sea]

I am reading Sullivan's "Fatal passion" about Ducky and he quotes Van Der Kiste saying the Vicky said that Alix was not suited to be the Russian consort as she was too absorbed with her self-importance. Anybody have anything on this??
Thanks!

I have read that Alicky was an imperialist and wanted Nicky to reign as such.

[QUOTEAlexandra was very supportive of her husband Nicholas, yet she often gave him bad advice. She was a fervent advocate of the "Divine Right To Rule", and believed that it was unnecessary to attempt to secure the approval of the people. Her aunt, German Empress Frederick, wrote to Queen Victoria that "Alix is very Imperious and will always insist on having her own way; she will never yield one iota of power she will imagine she wields..." ][/QUOTE]
King, Greg The Last Empress, p.93

Though she may have been considered 'brave' for turning down Prince Albert, Duke of Clarence, such a snub wouldn't have gone down very well within a portion of the family.

 

[Tsaritsa]

I wonder if Vicky was so much her fathers' daughter that she treated Wilhelm in the way she had witnessed her father treating Bertie. It would be perfectly reasonable, given that she was Alberts' favourite child, for her to emulate her rolemodel and no higher form of praise.

 

[Russophile]

I wonder if Vicky was so much her fathers' daughter that she treated Wilhelm in the way she had witnessed her father treating Bertie. It would be perfectly reasonable, given that she was Alberts' favourite child, for her to emulate her rolemodel and no higher form of praise.

Now there's an interesting concept!

 

[EmpressRouge]

I wonder if Vicky was so much her fathers' daughter that she treated Wilhelm in the way she had witnessed her father treating Bertie. It would be perfectly reasonable, given that she was Alberts' favourite child, for her to emulate her rolemodel and no higher form of praise.

That IS an interesting idea, indeed, especially given how differently Bertie and Willy turned out. Bertie was pleasure-seeking and idle in his youth, but actually was underestimated and much better king than people give him credit for. Willy was the opposite--dedicated and disciplined but ultimately not as wise nor insightful as a monarch as was perceived, and certainly not nearly as capable/impressive as he believed himself to be.

 

[Tsaritsa]

I wasn't implying similarities between Bertie and Willy other than in a possible method of, shall we say,their early training which would not necessarily have produced similar personality traits in adults. I confess to knowing embarrassingly little about Willy because I've never felt drawn to him as an adult man, however, when I stop to think about a child with an infirmity which might set him apart from his peer group-at least in his own mind-and a mother who didn't seem to know about unconditional love(maybe her own Mama didn't, either) I think he deserves a closer, more tolerant examination. I feel another "What if" coming on.

 

[Grandduchess24]

What was the big deal?
- why didnt the German people like her,calling her "the English woman" when her parents were mostly German
-why didn't willy get along with his mother?

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

What was the big deal?
- why didnt the German people like her,calling her "the English woman" when her parents were mostly German
-why didn't willy get along with his mother?

Vicky and her late husband were no fans of Bismarck and the Emperor. Both were seen as liberal and thus anathema to Prussian politics. Thus, being British by birth and liberal, she was viewed as a foreigner, aka the English woman. And Willy's grandparents made sure that he did not get along with his parents because they separated him from Vicky and essentially brought him up to dislike his mother and others whose views differed from his.

 

[IloveCP]

I read in "Victoria's Daughters",that despite the fact that she was a royal,she thought royal parties were "snobbish"or something like that.

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Just learned about Willy's "withered arm". Is it really correct to call it that? When I hear withered I think dying, shriveling, turning black etc. His arm, at least in the photos I've seen, seems shorter than the other but otherwise physically normal.

 

[MAfan]

If I recall correctly, his left arm was indeed a little shorter than the right arm, and he had the left elbow paralyzed.

 

[Tsaritsa]

The cause being his traumatic entrance into the world after his mothers nightmarish labour. I believe they refused her request for her English doctor and the German doctor was less than competant ( I may have this round the wrong way!!!) One of the reasons for Willy's poor relationship with his mother was that he blamed this birth defect on her. His arm was wrenched/dislocated, maybe deliberately, in order to save his life.

 

[Russophile]

The cause being his traumatic entrance into the world after his mothers nightmarish labour. I believe they refused her request for her English doctor and the German doctor was less than competant ( I may have this round the wrong way!!!) One of the reasons for Willy's poor relationship with his mother was that he blamed this birth defect on her. His arm was wrenched/dislocated, maybe deliberately, in order to save his life.

Willy seemed to blame everything on everybody else. I remember reading in Julia Gelardi's book Born to Rule that when his pregnant wife had an altercation with his sister he threatened to blame the sister if anything happened to the baby. The wife instigated the altercation. He must have been a big disappointment to Vicky, IMO.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

Russo my dear, and my dear Tsaritsa,

If you read Clay's King, Kaiser, Tsar, she suggests that the door swings both ways. From the letters Vicky wrote to Queen Victoria, Willy's mother was repulsed by his disfigurement and this had to have some bearing on their relationship.