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  #261  
Old 12-22-2021, 07:01 PM
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In 1547 Margaret of Anjou, Queen of England, spouse of King Henry VI of England, "introduced conscription, a measure hitherto employed only by the kings of France".
The War of the Roses by Alison Weir

How could Margaret as a Queen introduce conscription? She was not a Queen Regnant.
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  #262  
Old 12-22-2021, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
In 1547 Margaret of Anjou, Queen of England, spouse of King Henry VI of England, "introduced conscription, a measure hitherto employed only by the kings of France".
The War of the Roses by Alison Weir

How could Margaret as a Queen introduce conscription? She was not a Queen Regnant.
Helps to explain just what a "conscription" is to us that are not informed of the term. Basically it's like executing a draft to serve in the military here in the US. It hasn't been done here since the Viet Nam war.

I don't see it happening in the UK here or the US even by *anybody* .
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  #263  
Old 12-28-2021, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
In 1547 Margaret of Anjou, Queen of England, spouse of King Henry VI of England, "introduced conscription, a measure hitherto employed only by the kings of France".
The War of the Roses by Alison Weir

How could Margaret as a Queen introduce conscription? She was not a Queen Regnant.
Margaret of Anjou was long dead by 1547 I assume you meant 1447?
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  #264  
Old 12-29-2021, 11:22 AM
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The Daily Telegraph, The Times and The Daily Mail are all publishing articles about the Missing Princes Project which is headed by Phillipa Langley of the Richard III Society. The Missing Princes Project is viewing their disappearance using police methodology employed for missing persons.


The MPP is suggesting that Edward V was permitted to live out his life in secrecy on an estate in Devon after his mother and uncle Richard came to an agreement. The estate was at that time owned by Edward's older half-brother, Thomas Grey. In one of the local churches, St Matthews there are artifacts suggesting a connection to the Plantagenet/Yorks and Edward V. Click on the link to view the photographs.



https://sparkypus.com/2020/12/26/a-p...rch-coldridge/
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  #265  
Old 12-29-2021, 01:34 PM
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Hum... why if that were the case, didn't Richard produce Edward when accusaitions of his having killed the children came out? And this is from the Richard III society
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  #266  
Old 12-29-2021, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by TLLK View Post
The Daily Telegraph, The Times and The Daily Mail are all publishing articles about the Missing Princes Project which is headed by Phillipa Langley of the Richard III Society. The Missing Princes Project is viewing their disappearance using police methodology employed for missing persons.


The MPP is suggesting that Edward V was permitted to live out his life in secrecy on an estate in Devon after his mother and uncle Richard came to an agreement. The estate was at that time owned by Edward's older half-brother, Thomas Grey. In one of the local churches, St Matthews there are artifacts suggesting a connection to the Plantagenet/Yorks and Edward V. Click on the link to view the photographs.



https://sparkypus.com/2020/12/26/a-p...rch-coldridge/
I was reading those articles the other day ,what they did say became of Prince Richard?
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  #267  
Old 12-29-2021, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Helps to explain just what a "conscription" is to us that are not informed of the term. Basically it's like executing a draft to serve in the military here in the US. It hasn't been done here since the Viet Nam war.

I don't see it happening in the UK here or the US even by *anybody* .
there has been conscription in most European countries, in fact the UK was one of the few coutnries that did not maintain a large standing army.. and have a draft for its young men. However, it happened in england during the 2 World wars because they needed the men to serve in the army.
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  #268  
Old 12-29-2021, 02:47 PM
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William de la Pole, Duke of Suffolk was a favourite of Henry VI and had arranged the marriage between Henry and Margaret but had made many enemies at court and was murdered at sea in May 1450 on his way to France.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willia...uke_of_Suffolk

His close friend,Adam Moleyns Bishop of Chichester was also murdered in January of that year and had served as Lord Privy Seal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Moleyns
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  #269  
Old 12-29-2021, 06:25 PM
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I was reading those articles the other day ,what they did say became of Prince Richard?



An Ard Ri-I could not find any theories as to what happened to the young Duke of York.
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  #270  
Old 12-29-2021, 06:52 PM
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One of Philippa Gregory's books involves Richard being smuggled to the Netherlands. I assume she was going to say that Perkin Warbeck really was Richard, but she seems to have thought better of writing anything so bonkers, and switched to writing about the Civil War instead!

I just can't believe that Richard III would have let either or both of their princes live quietly in the countryside somewhere. It would have been way too much of a risk. It wouldn't have taken very much for someone to find out where they were and start a rebellion on their behalf. Even if they didn't, surely the prince/princes would have rebelled themselves as soon as they were in their late teens.
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  #271  
Old 12-29-2021, 07:29 PM
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I've long stopped reading any new "revelations" about this particular issue - and with a good reason, which has been now confirmed once again. Say what you want about Philippa Gregory's novels (not a fan myself), but she isn't so much more ridiculous than many of these authors, for reasons Alison H listed. To me, she ranks somewhere around the level of Josephine Tey who wanted to absolve the princes' mother from the suspicions that she had made peace with her sons' and brother's murderer for some money and a few balls. Err, a name conspicuously missing from the list of this author who all lay Richardians I've ever encountered swear by? Richard Grey, people?
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  #272  
Old 12-30-2021, 02:41 PM
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There are a lot of strange theories, most of which would necessitate someone - Margaret Beaufort, or the Duke of Buckingham, or anyone else you care to name - being able to hire an assassin who could just wander into the princes' quarters in the Tower of London, as if it were some sort of public park, and murder them without Richard doing anything about it when he found out. And I never get all the fuss about the Josephine Tey book. People were speculating about the princes' disappearance. If they'd been alive, surely Richard would have produced them to prove that he hadn't murdered them - like Henry VII produced the Earl of Warwick to prove that Lambert Simnel wasn't really him. The idea that they were packed off to live a quiet life in the country makes no sense at all.
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  #273  
Old 12-30-2021, 03:15 PM
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The future Richard III has always been the prime suspect but fingers have also been pointed at the Lady Margaret Beaufort ,the Duke of Buckingham,the future Henry VII and the Duke of Norfolk.
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  #274  
Old 12-30-2021, 03:23 PM
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Perhaps because I have never been a fan of Margaret Beaufort, my suspicions have always centered around her. She could have had access to the Tower as well along with a so-called assassin.

It would be really helpful if the Queen would give permission for the bones discovered under a stairway in the Tower to be tested to see if they are the Princes and put this theory of living out their lives elsewhere into adulthood to rest once and for all.
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  #275  
Old 12-30-2021, 03:34 PM
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I'm not sure where exactly in Westminster Abbey that they were buried but yes I have also thought that they should be tested and given a proper burial if they are indeed the Princes.
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  #276  
Old 12-30-2021, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Lori138 View Post
Perhaps because I have never been a fan of Margaret Beaufort, my suspicions have always centered around her. She could have had access to the Tower as well along with a so-called assassin.

It would be really helpful if the Queen would give permission for the bones discovered under a stairway in the Tower to be tested to see if they are the Princes and put this theory of living out their lives elsewhere into adulthood to rest once and for all.
According to the contemporary reports of where the bones in the WA Abbey urn were found, they most certainly can NOT be those of the sons of Edward IV. Those bones were found ten feet under the stone foundations of a stone staircase outside of the White Tower that was built over 200 years before the boys were born. It took the 17th-century workmen several weeks to dismantle the staircase, and they thought so little of the bones that they were originally thrown on a garbage pile. Several weeks later, someone remembered the story of the boys, and the garbage pile was searched. This is most likely when the "velvet" and animal bones were added to the find.

It defies credulity to think that a hole large enough to be excavated ten feet UNDER a stone staircase could possibly be overlooked by the 300 people who lived in the Tower full-time, or the several hundreds who worked or visited there daily. Someone would have said something, especially after Henry Tudor gained the throne. "Oi, they dug a great big 'ole roight there they did - funny thing that, gov." If Henry could have produced the bodies of the boys (who would have probably still been somewhat recognizable, even after two years) he would have most certainly done so so he could officially blame Richard III. This did not happen. Henry never officially said a word about his brothers-in-law's fate; he let rumor and gossip do the job.

The bones in the urn are most likely those of Roman children, buried in the well-known Roman cemetery that exists under the Tower site.

I don't know what happened to Edward of Westminster or Richard of Shrewsbury, and as of now no one else does either. It's quite possible that neither Richard III nor Henry VII did either - Henry Buckingham was Constable of England at the time and in charge in London, and he could have had them moved on his own authority as Richard was away on his coronation tour when they "disappeared." Buckingham, of course, was executed after he rebelled against Richard that autumn; Richard never spoke to him again. Conversely, Richard may have moved them, separately, before he left and sent them to places known only to a few. We will most likely never know - but hey! They found Richard...
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  #277  
Old 02-10-2022, 02:04 PM
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On April 25, 1199, John was invested as Duke of Normandy with a crown of golden roses placed on his head.

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  #278  
Old 02-23-2022, 12:04 PM
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On April 25, 1199, John was invested as Duke of Normandy with a crown of golden roses placed on his head.

By 1204 he had lost it to the French along with most of the other Angevin lands such as Anjou and Maine to Philippe II Augustus of France.

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  #279  
Old 09-09-2022, 09:50 PM
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King John of England's passage of the Wash, October 1216, during the Baron's war
http://www.alamy.com/king-john'd-pas...182292338.html
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