Princess Helena (1846-1923) and Prince Christian of Schleswig-Holstein (1831-1917)


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Is this the same princess, who was nick-named Lenchen? A daughter of Queen Victoria and Prince consort Albert?
 
I recently read about one of those sisters being named Helena and nick-named Lenchen. Lenchen would be a German nick form for Helena. Victoria and Albert spoke German with each other and with their children, so the Brittish royal family was practically German at the time!
 
Furienna said:
I recently read about one of those sisters being named Helena and nick-named Lenchen. Lenchen would be a German nick form for Helena. Victoria and Albert spoke German with each other and with their children, so the Brittish royal family was practically German at the time!

Yes, so much in fact, that the rest of the British aristocracy called them "those Germans" It only stopped when George V and Mary who tried to bring up their children and marry them off as Englishly as possible!
 
I don't know about any of you, but the Victorian era seems like such a deppresing time to live in!
 
auntie said:
I don't know about any of you, but the Victorian era seems like such a deppresing time to live in!

I think it was probably only depressing if you were poor. People who weren't poor had a wonderful time.
 
auntie said:
Yes, so much in fact, that the rest of the British aristocracy called them "those Germans" It only stopped when George V and Mary who tried to bring up their children and marry them off as Englishly as possible!
It didn't even start with Edward VII and Alexandra? Alexandra was Danish after all, not German? But then her parents were German, so who knows? But of course, George VI, who was George V:s and Mary's son, did get married to Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon, a Scottish aristocrat.

Amy said:
I think it was probably only depressing if you were poor. People who weren't poor had a wonderful time.
Your economy doesn't determine if you're happy or not. There will always be poor people, who are happier than some rich people. And I wonder how happy the princes and princesses of this era really were.
 
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Amy said:
I think it was probably only depressing if you were poor. People who weren't poor had a wonderful time.

People were very restricted and ruled by very strict norms of behaviour. It was either to suppress all your individual ideas or to be socially ostracized. You lived within your small social circle and you abided by the fixed rules and it was a boring life in which one wrong step could ruin all. In order to create the right people for this kind of life you had to start to train your children early on and with extreme consequence. Books about childrens education during this time are books about torture - believe me. And the worst was thast there was not even the idea that something could be wrong with this lifestyle. It gives me the creeps just to think about it.
 
Furienna said:
It didn't even start with Edward VII and Alexandra? Alexandra was Danish after all, not German? But then her parents were German, so who knows? But of course, George VI, who was George V:s and Mary's son, did get married to Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon, a Scottish aristocrat.
It probably started much before, when the Hannover family became monarchs in England!
 
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Is this the women that Princess Eugenie was named after? (Eugenie Victoria Helena) How is the name Helena pronounced? Is the accent on the first or second syllable?
 
auntie said:
It probably started much before, when the Hannover family became monarchs in England!
I meant that they stopped talking German with the children even though they were Brittish.
 
A picture of Helena and her husband.
262pxhelenabritain18465ze9.jpg
 
Helena and Christian's marriage was an arranged one, which many of the family were against, but it proved to be a happy union, with four children.

Helena and Christian were the only members of Queen Victoria's immediate family to celebrate their 50th wedding anniversary.
 
I guess King Edward VII and Queen Alexandra would have too, if only Edward had gotten to live some years longer. But still, celebrating your 50th wedding anniversary has always been an achievement.
 
Avareenah said:
Helena and Christian's marriage was an arranged one, which many of the family were against, but it proved to be a happy union, with four children.

Helena and Christian were the only members of Queen Victoria's immediate family to celebrate their 50th wedding anniversary.

I always get a tingle when reading about their 50th wedding anniversary because their nephew sent them a telegram - so what you say!! He was the Kaiser and the anniversary was during World War One - even in the middle of a war with Britain he still managed to remember his British aunt and her husband and get a congratulatory telegram to them.
 
Furienna said:
I guess King Edward VII and Queen Alexandra would have too, if only Edward had gotten to live some years longer. But still, celebrating your 50th wedding anniversary has always been an achievement.

It is, yes, but I feel if Edward had lived long enough to celebrate his and Alexandra's Golden Wedding anniversary, it would have been somewhat of a hollow celebration, given the number of liaisons he had during his marriage, whereas Lenchen and Christian really seemed content together!
 
chrissy57 said:
I always get a tingle when reading about their 50th wedding anniversary because their nephew sent them a telegram - so what you say!! He was the Kaiser and the anniversary was during World War One - even in the middle of a war with Britain he still managed to remember his British aunt and her husband and get a congratulatory telegram to them.

Yes, amazing! That was one of the strange ways about Wilhelm II. He could be capable of great kindness while being almost brutal in his dealings with some -- his own family members too. :sad:
 
chrissy57 said:
I always get a tingle when reading about their 50th wedding anniversary because their nephew sent them a telegram - so what you say!! He was the Kaiser and the anniversary was during World War One - even in the middle of a war with Britain he still managed to remember his British aunt and her husband and get a congratulatory telegram to them.
Well, I still don't think the Kaiser had any reason to be ashamed of his mother being a Brittish princess. Britain was mightier than Germany, and Queen Victoria was still very much remembered. I think the Kaiser had every reason to be proud of having her as his grandmother. And his mother Victoria had probably taught him to appreciate his Brittish relations. So I don't see anything strange with the Kaiser sending a telegram to his Brittish aunt.

Avareenah said:
It is, yes, but I feel if Edward had lived long enough to celebrate his and Alexandra's Golden Wedding anniversary, it would have been somewhat of a hollow celebration, given the number of liaisons he had during his marriage, whereas Lenchen and Christian really seemed content together!
Even with the infidelity, it would have been a 50th anniversary of a king's and queen's wedding, so I don't think it would be too hollow. Maybe between Edward and Alexandra, but not officially.
 
Furienna said:
Well, I still don't think the Kaiser had any reason to be ashamed of his mother being a Brittish princess. Britain was mightier than Germany, and Queen Victoria was still very much remembered. I think the Kaiser had every reason to be proud of having her as his grandmother. And his mother Victoria had probably taught him to appreciate his Brittish relations. So I don't see anything strange with the Kaiser sending a telegram to his Brittish aunt.

My point was more that it was during the war when getting a telegram between friendly nations was difficult (based on the problems my great-grandmother had sending one to her husband's family telling them of his death - took 6 months to do so) but he managed to get one to a warring country.

Everything I have read about him suggests that he despised his British heritage, except for loving his grandmother. Even aged 4 he is supposed to have told the doctors not to stop a bleeding nose so his 'English blood' could flow out.

I suspect some of it was jealousy that as the eldest child of the eldest child he wasn't the heir to the British throne.


Even with the infidelity, it would have been a 50th anniversary of a king's and queen's wedding, so I don't think it would be too hollow. Maybe between Edward and Alexandra, but not officially.

I actually think that in his way Edward loved Alix, mainly due to the fact that he never ever allowed anyone to insult her. Who knows, if he had more to do officially, maybe he wouldn't have strayed? Then again Alix's illness in her third pregnancy and her deafness was hard to live with for a man who enjoyed company as much as he did - not an excuse of course but a bit of an explanation.
 
Well, from an early age, Wilhelm was under the influence of his paternal grandparents who were not liberal-minded as his parents were. I think they prejudiced him against his English side really. He was a problem child anyway, by most accounts. Some have even claimed his difficult birth resulting in his damaged arm may have also deprived him of oxygen for a time and this might have affected his later behaviour.
 
That sounds sad, that Wilhelm was actually taught to despise his Brittish heritage. But I still think, that him sending his aunt and uncle a telegram shows, that he didn't totally hate all of his Brittish relations.
 
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Furienna said:
That sounds sad, that Wilhelm was actually taught to despise his Brittish heritage. But I still think, that him sending his aunt and uncle a telegram shows, that he didn't totally hate all of his Brittish relations.
Maybe not all his British relations, but it didn't stop him placing his mother under virtual house arrest following the death of his father.
Wilhelm II was a man with quite a few "issues", as we'd say today.
 
Aaaaah... Issues... That explains it.
 
Helena and the Kaiser

Well, I still don't think the Kaiser had any reason to be ashamed of his mother being a Brittish princess. Britain was mightier than Germany, and Queen Victoria was still very much remembered. I think the Kaiser had every reason to be proud of having her as his grandmother. And his mother Victoria had probably taught him to appreciate his Brittish relations. So I don't see anything strange with the Kaiser sending a telegram to his Brittish aunt.

He was proud of his grandmother, but despised his mother. Though Vicky taught him to love everything English, she also inflicted cruel attempts to "fix" his withered arm. Therefore, he naturally became closer to his grandparents, who doted on him and treated him with affection. But his aunt was the husband of a Prussian prince (well, Danish by birth, Prussian by right of conquest) and was a great friend of the German imperial family. He was closer to some than others.

And the Kaiser didn't send the telegram personally, as is commonly believed. Princess Marie Louise, Helena's daughter, states in her memoirs that the Queen of Sweden was informed of the K's congratulations for the occasion. Though his congratulations are undisputed, I wonder why he didn't ask the Queen of Sweden (Sweden was neutral during WW1) to pass a letter to them. After all, Queen Mary and her aunt, Augusta of Cambridge (German Grand Duchess by marriage), exchanged letters through the Q of S.
 
I rather think he had a love/hate relationship with his mother. I do not think he simply despised her. Some of his letters indicate a strong emotional bond with her but it was a difficult relationship most certainly.
 
I rather think he had a love/hate relationship with his mother. I do not think he simply despised her. Some of his letters indicate a strong emotional bond with her but it was a difficult relationship most certainly.

In Queen Victoria's children, by John Van der Kiste, it says that he actually broke down quite heavily at his mothers funeral. I think that somewhere deep down he did care for her, but because of their rough years together before, it would have been a difficult relationship to fix.
 
Princess Helena was the founding president of the Royal School of Needlework.:princess2:

Prince Christian was made a Royal Commissioner for the Great Exhibition of 1851.
 
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