Princess Alice, Grand Duchess of Hesse and by Rhine (1843-1878) - Page 2

CarolinaLandgrave · #21 11-25-2008, 07:46 PM

This is true........ very, very true, Russo.
Bless her heart.........

She didnt seem to mind so much when Louis married (the third time) with a lady of a more acceptable rank... did she?

Russo - question for you...
wonder what Princess Alice would have said to her son marrying Victoria Melita.... the daughter of her haughty sister-in-law Marie????
Talk about yin and yang......
Marie is one of my favorite British royals..... but there was nothing down to earth and motherly at all about her!

Russophile · #22 11-25-2008, 08:33 PM

Ducky? I would have thought she would have approved at first. Ducky certainly had all the things necesary for a suitable wife. Ernst and Ducky had a good time the first few years of their marriage. But don't forget Kryril was rich and dashing they (Ducky and Kyril) always had a chemistry. Alice certainly would have been scandalized to say the least with the affair they had.

CarolinaLandgrave · #23 11-25-2008, 09:34 PM

And maybe out of respect for QV, Alice would have not said anything..... QV was the main proponent of the marriage - b/c they had the same birthday and she thought that was a sign.... so I read.
I think Ducky was way too much of a headstrong female for poor Ernie.

Russophile · #24 11-25-2008, 09:43 PM

My Peter has said that Ernie was not a nice person. Ella had a strong tie with him, though. I haven't researched him enough to make an assessment, though the scandal with Ducky, I had. She was a pip! That side of the family seemed to be, don't forget Ducky's sister was Queen Marie "Missie" of Roumania and she was a fast piece of baggage!

Some day, when I have more time, I want to write an article on Queen Marie for TRF. She has a ballroom at the downtown Multnomah Hotel, currently the Embassy Suites in Portland, and Maryhill is a feast for the eyes as well as the other senses.
Maryhill Museum of Art

CarolinaLandgrave · #25 11-25-2008, 09:48 PM

I think Ernie was rather misunderstood and suffered all kinds of emotional issues due to losing his mother.....
and the backrow Baptists' shout "AMEN" - those Edinburgh girls were something - particularly Beatrice, Victoria Melita, and Marie!
But they were stunningly beautiful girls..... just stunning!

Russophile · #26 01-26-2009, 08:48 PM

Gosh, it's been 2 months since I promised that article, hasnt' it??
I'm reading as fast as I can for the material. In that material, I am very surprised that Queen Marie has not mentioned Alice, and her death. Queen Marie has not mentioned any dates either so it's a little convoluted. Marie was 3 when Alice died of diptheria. It would have been interesting to see if Alice had any influence on Marie and her nursing during the war.

lucien · #27 03-31-2009, 02:25 AM

To get back to dear Alice again:

YouTube - Alice of the United Kingdom

Grace Angel · #28 03-31-2009, 03:13 AM

I think Alice was always loved by Queen Victoria, so I don't think she was hyprocritical or never gave Alice any credit, we all make remarks like that aout family members from time to time and only half mean them. Where was the hiefer? I've never heard that story. I don't think Alice was overly religious, but I do think that was a legacy ( to be religious) she passed down to Ella and Alexandra, one of whom used it wisely, one of whom did not use it as wisely.

The quote from one of Alice's letters to her husband about the differences between them which is quoted in Julia Gelardi's new book in Truimph's Wake and which is also found in Jerome ( can't recall last name!)'s book about Queen Victoria's daughters (published in about 1998 or so) is a very honest statement of how Alice viewed their marriage, she at least had open communication with her husband, if nothing else that was good, but I was struck by how honest she was wit him that the marriage didn't fulfill all her expectations. I don't have these two books, having read them from the library, but if somebody could find the quote, that would be great. Their marriage was a love match at first but although their marriage remiained stable and happy, I do think Alice became disillusioned with it. I believe Alice would have looked favorably on Ducky's marriage to her son at least at first, as Ducky was only 17 when she married Ernest and hadn't developed her later reputation. Also, Alice didn't particularly dislike MA, Ducky's mother, to my knowledge. I'm not sure what they thought of each other, but Alice wasn't in England all the time at that point, she had long since married and moved away so she wasn't there all the time seeing MA's haughtiness. I have read MA may have been a namesake for Alice's youngest daughter Marie and that Alice actually backed her brother Alfred in his quest to marry Marie, despite Victoria's disaproval, and that she helped the marriage negotiations.

**Marengo** · #29 03-31-2009, 05:51 AM

I actually read several times that Queen Victoria wasn;t very positive about her daughter Alice at all, always comparing her infavourably to her eldest sister and critisizing many things, among them the nursing and I believe that princess Alice was somewhat spiritual. After Alice's death this changed indeed.

Now queen Victoria was never positive about any of her children but in several books that I read (forgot the titles, but probably Hessian Tapestry by David Duff is among them) the bad relations between Victoria and Alice are highlighted.

I never heard the story about Maria Alexandrovna & Alice before, thanks for sharing it Grace Angel!

Russophile · #30 03-31-2009, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grace Angel

The quote from one of Alice's letters to her husband...

Warwick's book on Ella has similar quotes on that. Alice and Louis had drifted apart, but she always loved him. She was frustrated that they were so very different in interests and personalities when the years passed.

Grace Angel · #31 03-31-2009, 04:35 PM

It's surprising Alice and Victoria would have bad relations because although Alice wasn't as intellectual like Vicky, she wasn't like Bertie either. She was in some ways her father's child, unlike Helena for instance who wasn't intellectual. I wonder had Alice lived longer would she and Louis have drifted apart more? Alice was at least very honest about it, although it's true that some royal spouses letters to each other don't survive, and yet we know some royal's marriages were either unhappy or drifted apart, so you have to wonder if most royal couples in that position would have been as honest as Alice, whether in on paper records like letters and diaries which we have, or sometimes don't or in face to face conversations that we can't reconstruct?

Russophile · #32 04-01-2009, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grace Angel

It's surprising Alice and Victoria would have bad relations . . .

I find that surprising as well. Victoria referred to her as a "dear Child" and Alice was constantly nursing everybody, even Victoria.

Grace Angel · #33 04-02-2009, 01:33 AM

Maybe had Alice lived longer, their relationship would have become better.

maria-olivia · #34 04-02-2009, 04:01 AM

I am sure about that. Perhaps she would refuse Alix's wedding with the Tsar Nicolas II, knowing that Alexander III and Dagmar were not very happy with this wedding.
Vicky was Empress only a few months...

Grace Angel · #35 04-02-2009, 02:05 PM

Well, Dagmar and Alexander III did eventually relent and decide to let Nicholas and Alix marry. By that time, Alexander III was dying anyway. So if the couple had decided to marry, I'm sure she would have supported them. But she may not have at first, I know she did back her brother's marriage to Marie Alexandrovna though so she clearly had no issues with Russian marriages for her relatives.

Vasillisos Markos · #36 09-20-2009, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmpressRouge

...both have left incredible legacies through their descendents...

Yes, both sisters left descendants, one who today graces the throne of Spain and the other is consort to the British monarch. But Alice's children, like Victoria's, were not all well adjusted, which is typical of most families today. For example, Alix was not a very good consort for Nicholas because she was extremely mistrustful of most people, and let her spiritual beliefs blind her to the reality of what was happening to Russia. And while Victoria's three older children were horrible to her, this was most likely the influence of her in-laws who removed the children at an early age from Victoria's supervision which undoubtedly influenced their view of their parents. The younger children of Victoria by all accounts were devoted to their parents and were very well behaved and decent people.

jackie68 · #37 09-25-2009, 03:13 PM

Re: The Heifer named after Pss Alice.

Off the top of my head, I can't recall the author, but the book from which I refer is called Victoria and her Daughters.

At a later date I'll directly quote and show page numbers.

redrose_2121 · #38 03-30-2010, 12:48 AM

I'm not sure what is meant by Alix wasn't a very good consort for Nicholas II? They are part of one of the greatest royal love stories of all time. I guess they were not very well matched in their political views, but in personal matters is another story. Is that what you meant? I think it's so sad that Alice died at such a young age. It absolutely destroyed Alix, who, up until her mother's death, had been called "Sunny." Alice was such a beautiful, graceful, regal, and most importantly, charitable human being. A true jewel in the crown of English history.

Iluvbertie · #39 03-30-2010, 02:29 AM

The point is that if Nicholas had been simply Nicholas Romanov ordinary man about town then Alix would have been a great wife but as he was the Tsar of All the Russia's he needed a wife who would be able to win the affection of the people and also maintain that affection. She needed to be able to separate the job from the family and see through people better. She was a failure as a consort but a success as a wife and mother.

Russophile · #40 03-30-2010, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redrose_2121

I'm not sure what is meant by Alix wasn't a very good consort for Nicholas II?

Copy what Bertie said and adding: Please read Coryne Hall's "Little Mother of Russia". It is about the life of Marie Feoderovna, Nicky's mother. That is what a true consort should have been and Alix was NOT living up to that. She didn't even try after a bit, and Minnie, being who and what she was, didn't encourage Alix.
Don't forget, Russia at that time comprised 1/6th of the world and had the most glittering court in Europe. There were things that a consort was expected to do and Alix did not.