Prince Leopold, Duke of Albany (1853-1884)

[Denville]

It sounds very bizarre and I thought that th implication was that he did it deliberately.. I've not read anyting much about Leo but I've never heard of this one.. and I'd assume that he was unlikely to do soemting like put a pen in his mouth when he knew that he was likely to cause serious bleeding. I know he tried to lead as normal a life as possible and not to wrap himself in cotton wool - but Im sure he was sensible mostly about things that might cuase bleeding. Going out riding (for example) might cause a fall and bleeding but it was something that he very likely did for enjoyment.. but I can't see him being careless about sticking pens in his mouth..

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Originally Posted by Curryong

It's possible if he was writing and stopped for a moment to check something, that he might have popped his pen in his mouth and by swinging his chair inadvertently jabbed the flesh on the top of his mouth. If it cut the skin then it would have bled copiously of course.

I have a bio of Leopold but I can't recall this incident being mentioned. However there were so many times in Leopold's life when slight accidents that wouldn't have affected a person who didn't have his condition at all, but laid him low for weeks.

I wanted to bring it up here because I don't have access to any real bio's on People that could address some of the incidences where he was seriously injured. In the documentary a Rowena Shepherd, a commentator, stated that they had to stop the bleeding by cauterizing it with some kind of acidic liquid.
And the incident in question apparently happened when he was a child and didn't have good understanding of his illness.

[Denville]

I've never heard of it, but it might have happened. Its a long time since I read a bio of Leopold. But IME documentaries about royals aren't that great, for accuracy...

[Queen Claude]

I think that back then people often dabbed their pens on their tongues so I can believe, like Curryong stated, that something inadvertent happened. Leopold living to see his thirtieth birthday was out of the ordinary because even a minor injury could prove fatal for a hemophiliac.

[CyrilVladisla]

The installation of Prince Leopold in the House of Lords occurred in 1881.
http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-roy...122573499.html

[CyrilVladisla]

In April 1877, when Prince Leopold was twenty-four, Lord Beaconsfield gave him a key for the Government Red Boxes. Could Parliament have objected to this?

[LauraS3514]

Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla

In April 1877, when Prince Leopold was twenty-four, Lord Beaconsfield gave him a key for the Government Red Boxes. Could Parliament have objected to this?

Considering that Queen Victoria wouldn't allow The Prince of Wales to have one, they most certainly should have!

[Curryong]

Yes, but Leopold was soon to act as his mother's private Secretary, so he would know what was in the Red Boxes anyway.

[Countessmeout]

He was given the keys around the time he became his mother's unofficial secretary. He helped her with her correspondence, and was said to be one of the ones who kept up her interest in the papers in those years. It made sense that he was given a key to the box as well.

The one who had real reason to complain was his older brother. Edward was denied any access to the red box by his mother. For the heir to not be allowed access, but his youngest brother to be, was a sore point to say the least.


Likely an issue of trust for Victoria. Victoria worried Edward would over step his bounds as POW, and needed to wait his turn. Leopold was simply assisting her, and she didnt fear his intentions. Though there seemed to be some concern among courtiers that he was too involved in court politics.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Countessmeout

He was given the keys around the time he became his mother's unofficial secretary. He helped her with her correspondence, and was said to be one of the ones who kept up her interest in the papers in those years. It made sense that he was given a key to the box as well.

The one who had real reason to complain was his older brother. Edward was denied any access to the red box by his mother. For the heir to not be allowed access, but his youngest brother to be, was a sore point to say the least.


Likely an issue of trust for Victoria. Victoria worried Edward would over step his bounds as POW, and needed to wait his turn. Leopold was simply assisting her, and she didnt fear his intentions. Though there seemed to be some concern among courtiers that he was too involved in court politics.

Possibly true that as he was a conservative, and quite an intelligent young man, he might have undue influence. However I dont think he was "over the line" and its true that if anyone had a right to be annoyed, it was Bertie. He may have felt that he could have been his mother's secretary and assistant and at least have some access to the Boxes.

[Curryong]

Unlike Alfred Duke of Edinburgh and Arthur Duke of Connaught though, Leopold couldn't be a naval or army officer due to his haemophilia. Queen Victoria wished him to remain at Court and close to her, and so she conceived the idea of his being her secretary.

Leopold didn't want to stay near his mother (though in his own rooms) and finally got away. However, that was very different to Bertie, who was married, often travelled abroad and maintained a vigorous social life especially during the Season. That, and Bertie's circle, the Marlborough House set of whom she disapproved, made him unsuitable as her secretary in his mother's eyes.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Curryong

Unlike Alfred Duke of Edinburgh and Arthur Duke of Connaught though, Leopold couldn't be a naval or army officer due to his haemophilia. Queen Victoria wished him to remain at Court and close to her, and so she conceived the idea of his being her secretary.

Leopold didn't want to stay near his mother (though in his own rooms) and finally got away. However, that was very different to Bertie, who was married, often travelled abroad and maintained a vigorous social life especially during the Season. That, and Bertie's circle, the Marlborough House set of whom she disapproved, made him unsuitable as her secretary in his mother's eyes.

well yes I don't suppose it was really feasible for bertie to be a secretary.. but as the heir, it would have been a good idea to let him see some of the Red boxes.... So I would understand if he was peeved if Leop hada key and was trursted and he wasn't.

[Roslyn]

Originally Posted by Curryong

Charles Edward was 'dispossessed' in 1919, along with other German rulers and Heads of Royal and aristocratic Houses due to uprisings by soviets. Titles, lands and a way of life gone. A lot of these royals and aristos were so one-eyed about the dangers of Communism that they couldn't see the dangers that Nazism represented. Some even believed (forlorn hope) that Adolf would facilitate the return of the monarchy.

However, it is a matter of degree. Charles Edward may not have committed terrible deeds himself, but he was certainly a prominent member of the Nazi Party, who allowed himself to be used for prestige and propaganda purposes. I don't believe he was half as influential in BRF circles as the Nazi leadership believed him to be. Nevertheless, he was certainly rather an embarrassment, to say the least, to Kings George V and VI.

I had not been aware of Charles Edward until I happened upon this documentary yesterday, and I found it fascinating. I am linking it as it may be of interest to others. According to the account given in the show, Queen Victoria insisted that her grandson fulfil what she perceived to be his duty to succeed to her late husband's family's ducal throne of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha on the death of his uncle Alfred. Charles Edward was only sixteen at the time, and did not speak German. What followed was a chain of circumstances and decisions made for and by him that had a tragic outcome for him. As well as telling his personal story, this doco provides an interesting snapshot of this period of history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtqbXDgyFF0

[Prinsara]

Charles Edward did likely hold responsibility for terrible deeds. He was a committed Nazi in charge of his local branch of the Red Cross, which was responsible for a lot of the T4 euthanasia murders. It's almost unthinkable he didn't know exactly what was going on. His sister Princess Alice tried desperately to plead on his behalf at the end of the war, but the Allies refused to release him.

The interesting part is (seemingly) that he was saved from even harsher punishment by his very young grandson — Carl Gustav, the heir to the throne of Sweden. Apparently making the grandfather of a future king of a nation that was neutral during the whole conflict into an even bigger war criminal isn't diplomatic. Anyway, I've always heard that it was being CG's grandpa that ultimately saved his bacon, though I could be wrong.

It's possible to feel sad about the things that happen to someone, and revulsion about the choices they end up making. I've always wondered what Princess Alice really felt about what Charlie came to, but despite her willingness to talk and write, I'm still not quite sure. I imagine something like 'very, very, sad'.

[CyrilVladisla]

Prince Leopold with his sister Princess Louise in 1868
http://www.npg.org.uk/collections/se...hess-of-Argyll

[ronald biver]

Originally Posted by hennybenny

I've never learned much about Helena, i.e. her upbringing, marraige, widowhood, etc. Are there any books about her that someone could recommend?

Recommended book about Princess Helena of Albany is a photobook titled
"ALBANY, One Dynasty, Two Destinies" by Robert Golden & Arturo E Beeche & the whole Family Tree of The Waldeck-Pyrmont and extended families including England, The Netherlands etc. etc. The magazine is called Royal Digest Quarterly by Rosvall Royal Books.
PS It does save looking for historical information through Wikipedia, Google or YouTube.

[JR76]

Originally Posted by ronald biver

Recommended book about Princess Helena of Albany is a photobook titled

"ALBANY, One Dynasty, Two Destinies" by Robert Golden & Arturo E Beeche & the whole Family Tree of The Waldeck-Pyrmont and extended families including England, The Netherlands etc. etc. The magazine is called Royal Digest Quarterly by Rosvall Royal Books.

PS It does save looking for historical information through Wikipedia, Google or YouTube.

Those books are in general well-written and of high quality. What I especially like is that they cover subjects and people that aren't that well-known to those who can't access non-english language books and sources. I have one about King Michael of Romania and I plan to get others. I've been thinking about the one about the Albanys since the Bernadottes descend from them.

[Prinsara]

Helen, the widowed Duchess, would continually impress on her children (but especially Charlie) that they must grow up in a very correct way in order to "bring no shame on Papa's good name". The more robust Alice never minded this but apparently it was too much pressure for the less-confident and more neurotic Charles Edward.

Well. Very fortunately Helen never learned how badly her directive turned out.

[ronald biver]

Originally Posted by JR76

Those books are in general well-written and of high quality. What I especially like is that they cover subjects and people that aren't that well-known to those who can't access non-english language books and sources. I have one about King Michael of Romania and I plan to get others. I've been thinking about the one about the Albanys since the Bernadottes descend from them.

Did I mention in the TRF about the biography of queen Marie of Roumania by Hannah Pakula & Bernadotte-Attlingar part 1/2/3 by Ted Rossvall (all about the first Bernadotte until the recent Bernadottes, with beautiful photographs of all the descendants, most are just citizens of Sweden & NO TITLES a lot of them, if I already mentioned those two books in my previous TRF, sorry about it.

Most of my knowledge on history of royalty & nobilities specially focusing on Europe is reading their biographies etc. reading through the years, PERSONALLY I do not get my sources through Wikipedia, Google or YouTube, some biographies are pretty accurate, some don't.

[CyrilVladisla]

Princess Helena, Duchess of Albany in 1904
http://www.maryevans.com/history/10503199