Mary, Queen of Scots (1542-1587)


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I just don't understand why Elizabeth I loathed Mary,queen of scots so much to have her beheaded. They were COUSINS gosh darn it they were related by BLOOD I am sure rather than beheading your own cousin something could have been worked out
P.S it is also Elizabeth's own fault
Knowing as queen she needed to marry and produce an heir but she didn't do any of that so with no kid then the throne would go to someone else when she died
She killed the proposed next queen of England so that ....but ironically England did go into mary's family wether E I liked it or not from her tomb= mary's son became king of England and Mary was buried next to her.
 
I just don't understand why Elizabeth I loathed Mary,queen of scots so much to have her beheaded. They were COUSINS gosh darn it they were related by BLOOD I am sure rather than beheading your own cousin something could have been worked out
Easy for us to say, but Elizabeth lived a life of constant danger! Her hold on the throne was precarious; there were all too many people who wanted her got rid of so Mary could be queen instead. But Elizabeth was a survivor; she did what she had to do, kept her throne, and kept her head, while Mary lost both.
 
It was self perservation at its finest. Mary IMO would have done the same to Elizabeth. Heck she plotted to do so. She could have been happy being the Queen of Scotland but that was not good enough for her.

Of course it doesn't help that everyone in your life is telling you that you are the rightful Queen of England. If Henry's will dictated that Elizabeth was to get it after Mary I, I really don't understand why she persisted in her claim.
 
It was a tragedy that Mary Queen of Scots was brought up as a french princess and not a Scottish Queen. She was totally ill-prepared when she returned to Scotland to deal with the blood thirsty, ambitious Scottish lords. On top of that, she was a Catholic Queen in her own Protestant country. The seeds had been planted in her mind that she was the rightful Queen of England when she was very young, and she never lost focus of it, which lead to her end. :sad:
 
I just don't understand why Elizabeth I loathed Mary,queen of scots so much to have her beheaded. They were COUSINS gosh darn it they were related by BLOOD I am sure rather than beheading your own cousin something could have been worked out
P.S it is also Elizabeth's own fault
Knowing as queen she needed to marry and produce an heir but she didn't do any of that so with no kid then the throne would go to someone else when she died
She killed the proposed next queen of England so that ....but ironically England did go into mary's family wether E I liked it or not from her tomb= mary's son became king of England and Mary was buried next to her.

And even though they were related, they did not really know each other. Mary's claim to the throne is what sealed her fate, not to mention fleeing Scotland and being captured in England. Out of the frying pan and into the fire.
 
I've read quite a number of books about the relationship between Mary and Elizabeth. However, I find it odd that there is virtually no mention of what Elizabeth's sister, Queen Mary, thought of Mary Queen of Scots? After all, they were both Catholics? Sure, there was about a 26 year difference between the two Marys. In books, there is never any opinion expressed of the elder Queen Mary regarding the Scottish Queen. I find that a bit fascinating. Thoughts?
 
Honestly, I don't think Mary I thought much of her because she didn't have to deal with her.

Think of it this way...Mary becomes Queen of England in 1553 and Mary Queen of Scots is only 11....Mary of England dies in 1558 and Scottish Mary is now 16, married to the Dauphin of France and Queen of France and about to reign in France for two years. In 1560, he is dead and in 1561 she is on her way back to Scotland.

Mary I of England probably had a minimal interest in regards to the infighting that was going on in Scotland but that was about it.
 
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Grandduchess24 said:
I just don't understand why Elizabeth I loathed Mary,queen of scots so much to have her beheaded. They were COUSINS gosh darn it they were related by BLOOD I am sure rather than beheading your own cousin something could have been worked out.

No- in those days to keep your throne, it was kill of be killed. Elizabeth did not want to kill Mary Queen of Scots but did so reluctantly because there was proof Mary was plotting to try and take the English throne- she had to protect her reign.....in those days that's how it was done....when claimants believed it was their rightful due to be King/Queen ( and remember royalty believed they were annointed by God) you could not 'talk' them out of it.
 
I've read quite a number of books about the relationship between Mary and Elizabeth. However, I find it odd that there is virtually no mention of what Elizabeth's sister, Queen Mary, thought of Mary Queen of Scots? After all, they were both Catholics? Sure, there was about a 26 year difference between the two Marys. In books, there is never any opinion expressed of the elder Queen Mary regarding the Scottish Queen. I find that a bit fascinating. Thoughts?

Mary Queen of Scots was in France during the reign of Mary I of England,it was her mother The pro French Marie de Guise who would have had dealings with her English neighbour.

Scotland went to war with England at the end of Mary I's reign,France & Scotland had a military alliance known as 'The Auld Alliance'.The French retook Calais but the Scottish never invaded England as planned.
 
Mary Queen of Scots was a very beautiful, tragic woman who was born to James V and Marie of Guise, she grew up as an only child and fatherless as he father died around the time of her birth, so she became queen. She grew up in France because she was betrothed to the Dauphin, Francis, son of Catharine de Medici and Henri III. When they were teenagers, she and the Dauphin married, but he was sickly and died as a teenager not long after.

So as a childless teenage widow she went home to Scotland to rule it. She was more French than Scottish in some ways because she had been brought up in France, not in fairly rough Scotland. So in some ways she never fitted in- her religion was Roman Catholicism, and that of many of the Scottish, Calvinism. She thus was some ways not suited to be Queen there. She had to find someone suitable to marry as she had to have heirs so she married Henry, Lord Darnely who was a cousin, descendent of Henry VII and of his daughter Margaret Tudor by her second marriage. She was infatutated with Henry, Lord Darnely but he was a foolish immature youth with little to recomend him beyond his royal blood and distant claim to the sucession to the English throne. Their marriage quickly went downhill once the infatuation wore off although they soon had a healthy son together, the future James VI of England. During her pregnancy with their son, he killed Mary's secretary an Italian Catholic named Rizzio because he thought Mary and this man were having an affair, although they were not. Henry and Mary's marriage became unbearable, but it ended when Henry died in mysterious circumstances among whispers he was murdered by Mary or men who were working for Mary. It was never proven, but whispers about Mary being a murderess soon sprung up to ruin her reputation.

She tried to rule Scotland after Darnley's death, but she was very unpopular and had a bad reputation, not helped by her marriage to the Earl of Bothwell, a Scottish noble who rumor had it had a hand in the murder of Darnley. So she looked bad married to a man who might have killed her husband or had a hand in it, it looked like she was to blame. But Bothwell had a lot of military power. She was soon expecting twins with Bothwell, but her marriage to him was very unpopular with Scotland. She eventually miscarried the twins and lost her throne in Scotland because even though Bothwell had military power, he and she both were very unpopular and she knew she was no longer welcome in Scotland, so after losing battles against forces in Scotland and being a prisoner for awhile in Scotland, she fled to England.

She always maintained as mentioned above she had a claim to the English throne since to her, as a Roman Catholic, the marriage of Elizabeth's parents had not been legitimate. She was a prisoner her whole time in England though because Elizabeth I felt she was a political threat, which she was. She plotted from her imprisonment in various plots to put herself on the throne and take Elizabeth off. She had been a famous beauty in her day but she grew older and her beauty faded in captivity, although early on in her captivity, part of one plot to put on her on the throne called for her to marry the Duke of Norfolk, a leading peer of England. Elizabeth was relunctant to exceute her but after she caught Mary in a plot directly she decided she had to execute her. So she was beheaded in 1587, a year before the Spanish Armada reached England. Elizabeth didn't want to, but she was compelled to have Mary put to death as Mary couldn't stop plottong in captivity her escape and Elizabeth's death. James, then a young man ruling Scotland ( in his childhood a regency had ruled for him) had never known his mother and thus didn't step in and also he wanted to have the English sucession, so that was another reason he did nothing. All in all, Mary's was a sad life. A good bio of her is the one by Antonia Fraser.
Mary Queen of Scots was a political idiot, she upset the Queen of France, tried to claim the throne of England and got caught in the most stupid attempts to overthrough Elizabeth ever. Her marrying the man who murdered (probably with her permission) her second husband was a bad political move and got her kicked off the throne everything from then on was downhill.
 
No- in those days to keep your throne, it was kill of be killed. Elizabeth did not want to kill Mary Queen of Scots but did so reluctantly because there was proof Mary was plotting to try and take the English throne- she had to protect her reign.....in those days that's how it was done....when claimants believed it was their rightful due to be King/Queen ( and remember royalty believed they were annointed by God) you could not 'talk' them out of it.
Don't forget in 1570 Pope Pius V issued a papel bull telling English catholics they where duty bound to kill the Queen, and in 1580 Gregory XIII tried to get her assasinated as well. Falling for the Babington plot was something that would not have happened if she had listened to her advisors.
 
My dear White Rose,

I tried to find a review of this book on line but could not! Very strange
 
Mary Queen of Scots was a political idiot, she upset the Queen of France, tried to claim the throne of England and got caught in the most stupid attempts to overthrough Elizabeth ever. Her marrying the man who murdered (probably with her permission) her second husband was a bad political move and got her kicked off the throne everything from then on was downhill.

As fascinated (and even sympathetic to her plight)as I am by the Queen of Scots, I cannot disagree with a single word you typed.

The decision to marry Bothwell seems like an act of madness in retrospect, but I have recently read a book which suggests that after her "rape" by the Earl she became pregnant and was therefore forced to marry him to save what little of her honor that was left. :sad:

There was not the tolerance for unwed mothers in 16th century Europe that there is today...and still less for an unwed mother who was a reigning Queen!
 
I know it's kinda off subject but,there is no thread for her son,James VI so,I read in his daughters wiki that she was named after Elizabeth I.Why would he do that?Why would you name your daughter after the women who killed your mother?
 
I know it's kinda off subject but,there is no thread for her son,James VI so,I read in his daughters wiki that she was named after Elizabeth I.Why would he do that?Why would you name your daughter after the women who killed your mother?

For one thing, James never even knew his mother. The last time she saw him he was less than a year old, and he was surely raised with some bias against her because of the previous upheaval she caused in Scotland.. not to mention, his mother was also implicated in the murder of his father.

By the time James' daughter Elizabeth was born, Mary had been dead for almost 10 years, and James was hoping to be named Queen Elizabeth's heir. What better way to keep in her good graces than to name your eldest daughter after her?

I would venture to say that James had no tender feelings at all for the woman who gave birth to him.. she could not really be called his mother, after all, as she wasn't around to be one.
 
My dear HM Queen Catherine,

I agree with all your observations. James certainly never bonded with his mother because she was absent from his life from the time he turned 1. Undoubtedly, the nobles who raised him did not instill any love for his mother in their young ward.

But don't forget that after he became King, he built an elaborate tomb and moved his mother's remains to Westminster Abbey. So I think in the end he demonstrated some fidelity and affection for her. Perhaps being older also made him more understanding.
 
Well can you blame James or the nobles...to Mary...everything (her men, France and the throne of England) was a higher priority than her son or Scotland.

Yes, women of the day as a result of their social circle were not mothers like we know today. If they had had a normal relationship she might have seen him a couple of times a day for brief periods of time. As it was, she was so busy scheming that she schemed her way right of his life.

It was reported that in her day Mary was quite the beauty too bad she didn't have common sense. When you think about it a lot of the issues that she had in her life she brought them upon herself. Talking about picking the wrong men in life to love and follow!
 
My dear HM Queen Catherine,

I agree with all your observations. James certainly never bonded with his mother because she was absent from his life from the time he turned 1. Undoubtedly, the nobles who raised him did not instill any love for his mother in their young ward.

But don't forget that after he became King, he built an elaborate tomb and moved his mother's remains to Westminster Abbey. So I think in the end he demonstrated some fidelity and affection for her. Perhaps being older also made him more understanding.

Personally, I don't think Mary's elaborate tomb was erected to show James' fidelity and affection, but rather to glorify the Stuart name and the new dynasty on England's throne.
 
Personally, I don't think Mary's elaborate tomb was erected to show James' fidelity and affection, but rather to glorify the Stuart name and the new dynasty on England's throne.

There might have been a hint of guilt also seeing as he did nothing to save his mothers life.

James was a cold fish!
 
Hi,

I have always thought that James I and the rest of the Stuarts had that elaborate tomb built and preserved for Mary because it envisioned and cemented the idea that Mary was a Queen of England. And, it's placed beside Elizabeth... It put into place the concept that she reigned there right along with Elizabeth...
Mary's tomb is a symbol of Stuarts heredity in England.
It cemented the idea that the Stuarts belonged there too!!

Larry
 
No- in those days to keep your throne, it was kill of be killed. Elizabeth did not want to kill Mary Queen of Scots but did so reluctantly because there was proof Mary was plotting to try and take the English throne- she had to protect her reign.....in those days that's how it was done....when claimants believed it was their rightful due to be King/Queen ( and remember royalty believed they were annointed by God) you could not 'talk' them out of it.

That was why Elizabeth hesitated for so long (and probably hoped that Mary would die of bad health anyway): Mary was a crowned queen and having her beheaded like she was a normal traitor of high rank meant to show her subjects that being a crowned queen herself did not mean to be sacrosanct herself.Which ended in Cromwell and the beheading of king Charles I. Stuart not long afterwards, so she was kind of right in hesitating.

For Mary OTOH Elizabeth was not sacrosankt as for her Elizabeth was a bastard. Unlike her siblings Mary and Edward, who were born out of a marriage that the Catholic church accepted or at least could accept (Henry VIII. was the widower of Catherine of Aragon when he married Jane Seymour, Edward's mother), Elizabeth was born while Catherine of Aragon still lived. Thus for Mary, Queen of Scots she was not legitimate and couldn't become queen by the grace of God. And the next in line after Edward and Mary was herself, according to her way of thinking.
 
Mary Queen of Scots mother (Marie de Guise) was buried at The St Pierre Convent in Reims,her tomb I assume was lost during the French Revolution (like so many others).
 
Its quite sad that The Tudor's had to murder/execute so many of their cousins and family members to keep themselves safe. A few of them, not Mary QOS, being guilty of nothing else but being related to or being a claimant on the throne.
 
I think the execution of Mary was in fact an assassination just in a different form,yes it was habitual for those times,but if we take the Christian conceptions on which the kingdom was based,it was done a cruelty and nothing more.
I wonder what really happenned to her twins ,whose father was Earl Boswell,they were said to be born dead,though I doubt it.
I think Mary could be compared to a really tragic heroine,as she was depicted in Stephen Zweig's novel.Her story is very sad ,to begin with she wasn't appropriate to the role of Queen,she had been raised in France and wasn't prepared to reign in Scotland.Many were sceptical towards her because she was just a woman.She made some very wrong decisions in her life,she was thinking and living with heart,that was the main cause of her fall.She turned for help to the wrong people who latter betrayed her confidence.It is particularly sad that she was separated from her son at such an early age.He didn't do anything to help or save his mother,only because he had been turned against her from an early age.At least her words had a prophetic meaning "In my end it's my beginning",because her descendants are the actual monarchs of Britain.
If she had been smarter in politics ,she could have got the throne of England or keep her own at least.
 
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Was she the youngest monarch of any country?(Six Days Old)
 
Poor girl, the story always makes me sad. Everything that's wrong about monarchy is illustrated in this story. No one should be made from birth into a particular job - and yet that's what happens. And no one should have so much power that they can execute someone else, and yet that still happens too.

Monarchies have survived all this (and those that have become humane are all the stronger for knowing the history).
 
I think the execution of Mary was in fact an assassination just in a different form,yes it was habitual for those times,but if we take the Christian conceptions on which the kingdom was based,it was done a cruelty and nothing more.


As the Pope told the Catholic people of England that they wouldn't be committing a crime if they killed Elizabeth and some used Mary's name as the reason for committing treason there was no other option.

If she had come out and publicly acknowledged Elizabeth's right to the throne and said that she wouldn't take it if Elizabeth was assassinated by her (Mary's) supporters I might have some sympathy for her.

But she didn't - she actively encouraged Elizabeth's subjects to rebel against Elizabeth - hardly an innocent and one deserving of the most severe punishment allowable by the laws of the day.

I have no sympathy for her at all - she got exactly what she deserved.
 
Oh Bertie, isn't that a little harsh? I think Mary was the epitome of stupid and that Elizabeth had to kill her; but for some reason I just can't think that she got what she deserved; despite the idiotic things she did.
 
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