HM Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother (1900-2002)

[sndral]

Queen Alexandra never had to move out. Bertie’s (KE-VII) will left his widow residence at sandringham for the remainder of her life. It had been her home for 40 years , and Bertie meant it to remain her home. Alix may have been selfish in a lot of other areas but in this one the blame lies on her son the King G-V. The king could have moved out of York cottage and leased or bought another country house , if he needed one , he could have gotten back Osborne from the state , Queen Mary tried in vain to get out of York cottage but the King liked it and that’s where they stayed .

Yes, as I wrote, Queen Alexandra was left a life estate in Sandringham. The remainder went to her son. I believe her son had to supplement her income just as Elizabeth did with her mother. My point was that when one considers the very grand establishment that Queen Alexandra maintained as Dowager, the Queen mother’s situation wasn’t outrageous.

 

[carlfraley]

Yes, as I wrote, Queen Alexandra was left a life estate in Sandringham. The remainder went to her son. I believe her son had to supplement her income just as Elizabeth did with her mother. My point was that when one considers the very grand establishment that Queen Alexandra maintained as Dowager for 40 years, the Queen mother’s situation wasn’t outrageous.

Alix was only dowager for 14, almost 15 years . Not 40

 

[sndral]

Alix was only dowager for 14, almost 15 years . Not 40

Oops, 1910-1925,
I typed in total years at Sandringham from a previous post instead, thanks, I’ll edit/correct my post!

 

[Denville]

Queen Alexandra never had to move out. Bertie’s (KE-VII) will left his widow residence at sandringham for the remainder of her life. It had been her home for 40 years , and Bertie meant it to remain her home. Alix may have been selfish in a lot of other areas but in this one the blame lies on her son the King G-V. The king could have moved out of York cottage and leased or bought another country house , if he needed one , he could have gotten back Osborne from the state , Queen Mary tried in vain to get out of York cottage but the King liked it and that’s where they stayed .

Yes Alix was often selfish, and she was extravagant but she was sleft SAndringham and had no obligation to move out. George V could have found another house, but he liked York Cottage...

 

[padams2359]

It was purchased in 1862 FOR Bertie & alix on his behalf using his funds from the duchy of Cornwall which had been managed by the recently deceased prince consort . Sandringham never belonged to Queen Victoria

I said she bought it for them, not for her. She controlled everything.

 

[Denville]

But if it was bought using DOC funds, it was bought either by the Duchy, or with money saved from the funds that were part of Bertie's income. So it was Bertie's house..not the queen's.

 

[Kronprinz]

Not often heard in speeches.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Her brother-in-law Edward VIII observed that in widowhood Queen Elizabeth II's mother could have opted for The Dowager Queen Elizabeth. He observed that would have denied her the pleasure of being queen twice over. She became Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother.

When Elizabeth was Duchess of York she and her husband toured various parts of the Dominions in the 1920s. On one occasion, when a stray dog wandered into an event in Fiji where Elizabeth was greeting a line of guests, she shook the dog's paw.

Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother with Professor Muriel Bradbrook, the Mistress of Girton College, Cambridge, during a visit to the college to mark the centenary of its foundation.
http://www.gettyimages.com/license/931276086

 

[Gawin]

I think he was just being spiteful. He had nothing else to do.

It's my understanding a widowed Queen Consort is either (1) a Queen Mother (if she's the mother of the reigning monarch) or (2) a Queen Dowager (not the mother of the reigning monarch).

Queen Mary was technically the Queen Mother during the reigns of her sons Edward VIII and George VI was known as Queen Mary for simplicity's sake. When George VI died she became the Queen Dowager but continued to be known as Queen Mary.

So George VI's widow couldn't use Queen Dowager, leaving Queen Mother as the only option. But to avoid confusion she couldn't be called Queen Elizabeth since that was also the monarch's name. So that's why she became Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother instead.

By the time Queen Mary died a year later it seemed silly for the QM to adopt yet another title.

 

[LauraS3514]

So George VI's widow couldn't use Queen Dowager, leaving Queen Mother as the only option. But to avoid confusion she couldn't be called Queen Elizabeth since that was also the monarch's name. So that's why she became Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother instead.

By the time Queen Mary died a year later it seemed silly for the QM to adopt yet another title.

There can be multiple "dowagers" alive at the same time as the term is just an archaic term for widow. IIRC, at one time, there were several Dowager Duchesses of X alive, although I can't remember which dukedom it was - Westminster perhaps? That first year of Queen Elizabeth II's reign, there were two Dowager Queens - Mary and Elizabeth - but only the mother of the sovereign was "The Queen Mother." By the 20th Century, "dowager" had acquired a negative connotation and had thus gone out of favor - Alexandra, Mary and Elizabeth (QEQM) never used it.

 

[Denville]

Actually as far as I know Elizabeth the QM didn't really like the title, of Queen Mother, but it was what she was.. since she was the Mother of the Queen regnant.. and the title of Dowager had become old fashioned and mostly women of title didn't care for it, by the time the King died.
but I'm sure she didn't like the way papers shortened it to "Queen Mum" and would have preferred to just use her own name.. but it was not possible as it was the same as her daughters...

 

[Osipi]

I've always thought that it was endearing that she was called "the Queen Mum" informally. To me, it signified the deep respect and love that the people had for this wonderful lady.

I can't imagine anyone else now or in the future attaining such an endearment that Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother had.

 

[Denville]

I've always thought that it was endearing that she was called "the Queen Mum" informally. To me, it signified the deep respect and love that the people had for this wonderful lady.

I can't imagine anyone else now or in the future attaining such an endearment that Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother had.

I doubt if she liked it, its said that she didn't like Queen Mother either, and possibly she objected to it because it was made into this awful Queen Mum nickname,.
and while she was quite popular, again as with most royals, she wasn't loved by everyone and probably a lot of people, particularly younger people didn't think fo her at all.

 

[Denville]

Her brother-in-law Edward VIII observed that in widowhood Queen Elizabeth II's mother could have opted for The Dowager Queen Elizabeth. He observed that would have denied her the pleasure of being queen twice over. She became Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother.

I suppose that's the sort of spiteful thing he would say. It was perfectly proper for her to be known as Queen Mother. Dowager queen would merely be the widow of the late King, whereas Q Mother is the Mother of the reigining King or queen....

 

[Gawin]

There can be multiple "dowagers" alive at the same time as the term is just an archaic term for widow. IIRC, at one time, there were several Dowager Duchesses of X alive, although I can't remember which dukedom it was - Westminster perhaps? That first year of Queen Elizabeth II's reign, there were two Dowager Queens - Mary and Elizabeth - but only the mother of the sovereign was "The Queen Mother." By the 20th Century, "dowager" had acquired a negative connotation and had thus gone out of favor - Alexandra, Mary and Elizabeth (QEQM) never used it.

Thank you for the clarification. So if I understand correctly by the time George VI died it was customary for Queen Dowagers to be known simply by their given names - Queen X. But in Elizabeth's case her daughter was also Queen Elizabeth so she added "The Queen Mother" to her name to avoid confusion.

Actually as far as I know Elizabeth the QM didn't really like the title, of Queen Mother,

Yes, that's what William Shawcross states in his official biography of the QM. "Horrible name," she called it (p. 661). He cites a letter she wrote to QEII.

 

[Denville]

I think thtat in general in the 20th C, titled women did come to dislike the "Dowager" title as it made them sound like ancient crones... and I imagine it was the same with Royal women. And that nowadays, the widow of a peer usually goes by her own name.. ie Mary Duchess of X, while her sons wife is THE Duchess of X....
I was fairly sure that I had read that the QM didn't like that title - but it was a way of distinguishing her from QE II...

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

Perhaps it's time with some facts again:

Queen dowager:

* Widow of a King.

* A Queen dowager continues to enjoy the title, style, and precedence of a Queen. However, many former Queens consort (including Mary, Alexandra and Elizabeth) didn't formally use the word "dowager" as part of their titles.

Queen Mother:

* Mother of a reigning monarch and a Queen dowager.

* If you're not widow of a king (Queen dowager), then you're not a Queen Mother).

* Queen mother doesn't mean that you're the mother of the Queen - it applies whether the current monarch is Queen or King.

* Why didn't Alexandra and Mary use the title of Queen Mother? Well, they had no reason to use it.

Queen Elizabeth The Queen mother:

Why was she not just called Queen Elizabeth (as her two predecessors had been called Queen Mary and Queen Alexandra)? Because she had to distinguish herself from her daughter, Queen Elizabeth II.

Why was she not just called the Queen dowager? Because she (according to several authors and historians) loathed being referred to as a ''dowager''.

--------------------

I've always thought that it was endearing that she was called "the Queen Mum" informally. To me, it signified the deep respect and love that the people had for this wonderful lady.

I can't imagine anyone else now or in the future attaining such an endearment that Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother had.

Yes, she had her fans, Osipi (and there were quite a few of them).

The British media: Most of them (after what I have seen in newspaper-clips and video-recordings from my British grandparents) referred to her as ''the Queen Mother'' or QEQM.

Ordinary Brits: Most of them referred to her as ''the Queen Mother'' (the ''Queen Mum'' stuff was more an American thing, I think).

I doubt if she liked it, its said that she didn't like Queen Mother either, and possibly she objected to it because it was made into this awful Queen Mum nickname,.
and while she was quite popular, again as with most royals, she wasn't loved by everyone and probably a lot of people, particularly younger people didn't think of her at all.

1. Why can't you just accept that public figures like the Queen Mother (very popular), the Queen (beloved), William (very popular) and Harry (very popular) are almost universally popular/liked with approval/favourability/positive ratings at 80 to 90%?

2. You describe Diana (in other threads) - as popular and beloved.
She OTOH had pretty low ratings (at times) and was newer (with exception of two times in 1994) the most popular member of the family.

3. And to your last point: The Queen Mother was (according to the media and Ipsos Mori polls) actually quite popular with all generations during the 1990s and early 2000s. - Why? IMO, it was due to her efforts during the war and her high age. Many young people both reads and knows their stuff - and they like public figures who still works at the age of 90 to 101.

--------------------

The popularity of QEQM:

1. She was very popular - but not on the scale as the Queen (who is also much more iconic because of her role as monarch).

2. And her ratings was not as high as those of the Queen, William and Harry.

Her good sides (ATMO):

1. She raised her eldest daughter to become an committed and amazing monarch.
2. She supported the King during World War II.
3. She supported her daughter.

Her not so good sides (ATMO):

1. She could be very manipulative and difficult (even serious commentators such as Robert Hardman have said that).
2. She liked to be the center of attention (as Diana also did).
3. And you couldn't go to her with problems (mentioned on the BBC during her 90th and 100th birthday - it was her grandchildren who said it).

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Queen Elizabeth unveiled a royal naval memorial in Portsmouth in 1953.

 

[An Ard Ri]

H.M.The Queen Mother at the 50th anniversary of Victory in Europe Day in Hyde Park,London on May 6th,1995.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Queen Elizabeth attended Royal Variety Performance in 1972.

 

[duchessrachel]

This may have been discussed since I have not read through this entire thread, but in a book I read on the Queen Mother (I think it was Shawcross) it said that Princess Margaret burned a lot of the QM letters. I assume that she did not burn them herself but had someone else do it. I have often wondered why the people entrusted to burn them did not just save them. I guess because they were "entrusted" It would be fascinating to know what was in those letters. I think it is so sad they were burned because they were a part of history, but then letters are a personal thing too. Has anyone in the know ever revealed anything that was in them or speculated?

 

[duchessrachel]

The popularity of QEQM:

1. She was very popular - but not on the scale as the Queen (who is also much more iconic because of her role as monarch).

2. And her ratings was not as high as those of the Queen, William and Harry.

Her good sides (ATMO):

1. She raised her eldest daughter to become an committed and amazing monarch.
2. She supported the King during World War II.
3. She supported her daughter.

Her not so good sides (ATMO):

1. She could be very manipulative and difficult (even serious commentators such as Robert Hardman have said that).
2. She liked to be the center of attention (as Diana also did).
3. And you couldn't go to her with problems (mentioned on the BBC during her 90th and 100th birthday - it was her grandchildren who said it).

I always thought Charles did go to her with problems, and that is why he was closer to her than his mother

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

Well, I think it was him (Charles) who said it during an interview around her 100th birthday. - It was something about she being a very positive person who pretended that problems didn't exist.
It was also mentioned around her 90th birthday that her grandchildren said that she was not a type of person you could discuss problems with.
Most of these BBC clips (on YouTube) were deleted around 2010, but I have also read about the claim that ''one couldn't go to her with problems'' in a pretty serious article on the internet, think it was in the Telegraph around the time of the Diamond Jubilee in 2012.
The old Telegraph website with the jubilee link is deleted, but you can always go through their archive, although it will take a lot of time to go through the hundreds of Jubilee related articles.

But I found this video from her 85th Birthday in 1985 (which I also thought was deleted), where Royal biographer Christopher Warwick talks a bit about it - watch from 4:18:

Warwick is known as a pretty serious royal commentator, and is without any doubt one of my favourites. - He is also a big fan of the Queen, and that doesn't hurt of course, especially since I'm a BIG fan of hers.

Read about him here: Christopher Warwick

 

[AdmirerUS]

[/B]

I always thought Charles did go to her with problems, and that is why he was closer to her than his mother

I think he went to her for comfort and I think both enjoyed that part of it. But I don't think he went to her for help solving problems.

Problem solving was not her forte. She had other good qualities.

 

[Curryong]

Yes, I think she lifted people's spirits when they were down, and smoothed things over. Those close to her often spoke of her sense of fun. She was a rock to her husband throughout their life together but at times of crisis there was often an illness and retreat to bed. Elizabeth spent the last week or so of the abdication in 1936 in bed with the flu, for example.

 

[Denville]

Or perhaps she had the flu.. She was a big support to the queen and IMO to Charles.. so I find it hard to believe that she would not listen when there were genuine problems. She may have ahd the attitude that they could be solved with optimism and willpower.

 

[Osipi]

Sometimes when there's a problem, the greatest asset one can have is somebody that just listens. QEQM may not have been renowned for her ability at problem solving but she most definitely was someone to go to when you just needed somebody there to listen to you. Charles found that kind of a person in his grandmother and knew he could always count on her to be there for him.

 

[Denville]

well for her grandchildren, I'd imagine that her age and her having been in the RF for a long long time.. durng times of great social upheaval... from 1923 to - well say the 1970s or 80s.. would probably mean that she wasn't likely to be much help In sovling problems for them.. They would have experienced the 60s and a new way of being royal.. so probably they didn't go to her with problems because they knew she did not have the knowledge or experience to be much help... She coudlnt really take it In, I think that by the late 90s, it wasn't such a big deal for Charles to marry the divorced Camilla.

 

[duchessrachel]

Well, I think it was him (Charles) who said it during an interview around her 100th birthday. - It was something about she being a very positive person who pretended that problems didn't exist.
It was also mentioned around her 90th birthday that her grandchildren said that she was not a type of person you could discuss problems with.
Most of these BBC clips (on YouTube) were deleted around 2010, but I have also read about the claim that ''one couldn't go to her with problems'' in a pretty serious article on the internet, think it was in the Telegraph around the time of the Diamond Jubilee in 2012.
The old Telegraph website with the jubilee link is deleted, but you can always go through their archive, although it will take a lot of time to go through the hundreds of Jubilee related articles.

But I found this video from her 85th Birthday in 1985 (which I also thought was deleted), where Royal biographer Christopher Warwick talks a bit about it - watch from 4:18:

Warwick is known as a pretty serious royal commentator, and is without any doubt one of my favourites. - He is also a big fan of the Queen, and that doesn't hurt of course, especially since I'm a BIG fan of hers.

Read about him here: Christopher Warwick

Thank you. I will watch that.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother visited Castle Coole in 1988.

There was a State Visit of King George VI and Queen Elizabeth to France in 1938. This had nearly had to be cancelled. Elizabeth's mother, Cecilia, Countess of Strathmore died on June 23rd. Why was there no Court mourning?