HM Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother (1900-2002)


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
There was some previous discussion about the Duke and Duchess of York (George VI & the Queen Mum) having a major presence at the wedding of Princess Olga of Greece to Prince Paul of Yugoslavia due to Paul and Elizabeth's acquaintance at Oxford. Found the proof, or at least a confirmation from Paul's grandson, Prince Dimitri
Front: Weddings Playlist - Video Library - The New York Times
 
There was some previous discussion about the Duke and Duchess of York (George VI & the Queen Mum) having a major presence at the wedding of Princess Olga of Greece to Prince Paul of Yugoslavia due to Paul and Elizabeth's acquaintance at Oxford. Found the proof, or at least a confirmation from Paul's grandson, Prince Dimitri
Front: Weddings Playlist - Video Library - The New York Times

What a delightful video, thanks for posting it. Shawcross's book on the Queen Mother sets out her friendship with Paul. Queen Elizabeth did not attend Oxford but met Prince Paul who went to school with Queen Elizabeth's brother, they became friends, and Queen Elizabeth's brother introduced Prince Paul to her.
 
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What a fascinating video, thank you for sharing.
 
Here is a not so nice article about her shortly after her death.I have know idea if its true.

Queen Mother: The nation's best granny?|6Apr02|Socialist Worker

The article is harsh but after having read the Shawcross biography, there is some "truth" in the article but those facts have been terribly distorted. For example, she and the King did support Chamberlain's attempts at appeasement, but this was to avoid another world war. The QM lived through World War I, lost a brother to the war, and helped her family care for convalescents at Glamis Castle. She knew firsthand how destructive war is and thus supported any attempt to avoid the bloodshed.

She did like her drink but who among us does not? It hardly makes her a lush. And she did support the old system, such as the white minority governments, but I think it was more from a sentimental remembrance of things past and not to oppress the black majority.

QM did not want to move from Buckingham Palace and prolonged the move for as long as possible but it was not out of a desire to displace her daughter from the world stage. It was more of a desire to remain in familiar surroundings rather than move to Clarence House which she disliked. She had many happy memories of her time with the King and was terribly lost after his death.
 
The fact that it comes from a paper called "The Socialist Worker" ought to clue you in that it isn't going to be an unbiased account.

That doesn't mean the entire article is lies, but that they are going to put it in such a way as to make her look as bad as possible.
 
I have always absolutely ADORED, RESPECTED AND ADMIRED Queen Elizabeth, The Queen Mother! I think she is my FAVORITE ROYAL OF ALL TIME!

She married the second son, fully expecting to live a quiet Royal life (as quiet as possible that is,) she was thrust into the role of Queen unexpectedly, her husband had a speech impediment which she moved heaven and earth to help with (LOVED, LOVED "THE KING'S SPEECH,) she then had a second World War to contend with, she then lost her husband with a full half of her life to live as a widow.

She was exemplary in her conduct, character, her devotion to her nation and people through out her entire life!

The British people and the nations of the Commonwealth were truly blessed to have her, in my opinion.
 
In suprised that Olav V proposed to her.She would have become Queen of Norway and Britian.But Im glad she did'nt.
 
When did Olaf propose? I was not aware of this and if I read that in the Shawcross biography, it has completely slipped my mind.
 
In suprised that Olav V proposed to her.She would have become Queen of Norway and Britian.But Im glad she did'nt.
How could she hve become Queen of both countries?
 
I believe it was rumour that Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother would marry King Olav as they were both widowed. I believe BP issued a denial.

I imagine her title would have been Queen Elizabeth of Norway as she was the Queen Mother and not the actual Queen.

Oh the possiblities of trying to figure out what to call her.
 
Thanks Zonk! I never thought but of course, now it makes sense.... she coul have remarried!
 
But how could she be Queen of the UK if she was no longer married to the King who was deceased and no longer regined. She received her Queenship as a result of her late husband who was King.

Now if Queen Elizabeth II had married a King..than she might have been Queen Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom and Norway...or Queen of the UK and Queen Consort of Norway.

Again......the possiblities!
 
But how could she be Queen of the UK if she was no longer married to the King who was deceased and no longer regined. She received her Queenship as a result of her late husband who was King.

Now if Queen Elizabeth II had married a King..than she might have been Queen Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom and Norway...or Queen of the UK and Queen Consort of Norway.

Again......the possiblities!

But my dear Zonk, Wasn't Eleanor of Acquitaine Queen of France and Queen of England, but not at the same time? I think the poster meant to write that the Queen Mum was Queen Consort of England while her husband lived, was still considered a queen after his death, and could have become Queen of Norway if she married that country's king. In Eleanor's case, she was no longer considered Queen of France after the divorce, which severed her legal tie to her husband. I think she would rightly be considered the ex-Queen of France.

But the Queen Mother would still be considered a queen, even after George VI's death.
 
I read that Olav propsed to her in 100 things you never knew about her.
My dear IloveCP,
Thank you for the response. I guess this fact, if true, did not merit mention in Shawcross's book on the Queen Mother.
 
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But my dear Zonk, Wasn't Eleanor of Acquitaine Queen of France and Queen of England, but not at the same time? I think the poster meant to write that the Queen Mum was Queen Consort of England while her husband lived, was still considered a queen after his death, and could have become Queen of Norway if she married that country's king. In Eleanor's case, she was no longer considered Queen of France after the divorce, which severed her legal tie to her husband. I think she would rightly be considered the ex-Queen of France.

But the Queen Mother would still be considered a queen, even after George VI's death.

I suppose that she could be Queen Elizabeth of Norway the former Queen Mother (Dowager) of the UK. But really, one would assume that you would take your current husbands title and like most women, lose their decased husband name and/or title when they remarry.

Hence Raine, Countess Spencer became Raine someone else when she remarried and only took back her former name when she divorced and requested it.
 
Many thanks for the "Queen Mum" Litany - I shall treasure them.
 
Does anyone know how she felt about Margaret's relationship with Peter?Did she support it or opposed it?
 
I suppose that she could be Queen Elizabeth of Norway the former Queen Mother (Dowager) of the UK. But really, one would assume that you would take your current husbands title and like most women, lose their decased husband name and/or title when they remarry.

Hence Raine, Countess Spencer became Raine someone else when she remarried and only took back her former name when she divorced and requested it.

My dear Zonk,

Good points. Do you think a distinction can be made between the Queen Mother and the example of the former Countess Spencer because the QM was consecrated as queen and went through a coronation? I see your point that re-marriage would make her current status to be that of her husband. In that case, I guess she would be considered the former Queen of England and the current Queen of Norway.

I would like to know any source material for Olaf asking for her hand in marriage. Can anyone direct me to a book where this is set forth. I am aware of the "100 things about the QM" list but who or what is the source for the entry about Olaf?
 
I have never read the Shawcross book but in books that I have read regarding the BRF, they make no mention of an actual proposal just rumours of one.
 
Does anyone know how she felt about Margaret's relationship with Peter?Did she support it or opposed it?

My dear IloveCP:

the Queen Mother was considered the Royal Ostrich by her courtiers and family members. She disliked unpleasantness and often did not involve herself in family matters, such as the breakdown of Charles and Diana's marriage, but felt that her proper role was to love and support her family, not to meddle or interfere.

That being said, I suspect the QM knew the marriage could not take place without Margaret either renouncing her right of succession or enduring damage to her royal status. However, I don't know that she would have openly supported it or opposed it. She probably let Margaret know she loved her and would support her but the decision was hers to make and this was a matter to be decided among Margaret, the Queen and the Queen's ministers.
 
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Now back to the thread topic; I was wondering if anyone knows the story behind Lady Elizabeth Bowes Lyon's childhood nickname of Buffy?

Supposedly it was because her brother David pronounced her name as "Elizabuff" when he was very young. I also read somewhere that he was the only person who ever shortened her name in any way.
 
An interesting read is "The King's Speech" co-written by Lionel Louge's grandson. It explains the courtship of Elizabeth and Bertie, and a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff. I'm about half way through it. (yes I have seen the film) Interesting stuff! :cool:
 
Does anyone know how she felt about Margaret's relationship with Peter?Did she support it or opposed it?

The Queen Mother definitely did not support Margaret's relationship with Peter Townsend and performed what some courtiers called her "Imperial Ostrich Routine", thereby pretending the situation did not exist, much to Margaret's frustration. QEQM even kept on a friendly basis with Townsend but never discussed Margaret and their situation with either the Princess or Townsend.
It fell to the Queen to deal with this situation and of course, HM was bound to listen to her ministers.

In later years, PM stated that if the situation had been explained fully to them, with all the repercussions that were unavoidable, they both would have given up on the idea much sooner instead of pining for each other until PM's twenty-fifth birthday.

PM's famous strong dislike for Lascelles came not from the advice he gave the Queen that the marriage could not go forward as a Royal marriage but rather stemmed from Margaret's frustration for Lascelles not clearly explaining the repercussions if PM were to marry Townsend at twenty-five; both the Princess and Townsend, upon discovering the "bottom line", immediately and mutually called a halt to the romance.

Princess Margaret so regretted the waste of time and additional unnecessary heartache that Kensington Palace lore has it that she once urged her chauffeur to run Lascelles over! Of course, I have no idea if that is a true story, but this was many years later and Margaret's resentment was still boiling. (Especially if one considers Lascelles was a very old man by the time PM supposedly made the "order" to her chauffeur.)

Back to the Queen Mother - Princess Margaret often spoke to her so rudely that some ladies-in-waiting finally told QEQM they could not stand to see her spoken to in such a manner and so often. Whereupon HM smiled gently, told them all not to worry, for she was used to it! Princess Margaret's other main bone of contention with her mother was what PM considered to be her inferior education. That subject was brought up regularly, and in front of guests at all the Royal Family's private homes for most of Margaret's adult life.

To insert my personal opinion here, I don't think it was easy to be Queen Elizabeth's daughter, in Margaret's case at least. HM The Queen had her Office and some protocol to protect her, and she married very young. I'm not suggesting there was not great love between all of them as clearly, there was. But love does not continuously conceal deep-rooted resentments. In Shawcross' biography, he reminded me of an incident mentioned in several books about the Queen Mother; the famous diarist, "Chips" Channon saw Margaret, around age eighteen, at a ball and wrote that night, "...there already seems to be an air of Marie Antoinette about her".

Another "IMHO" - had King George VI lived a few years longer, the Townsend situation would have never become out of hand and I think Margaret would have made a more practical (I don't mean without love) marriage, probably into the British Aristocracy. I think she would have been happier. The death of her father was a great, great blow to her and Princess Margaret was religious and remained so, all her life. Hmmm - I think this probably could have gone into the PM thread, but as we were discussing QEQM, too, it should be okay, I hope! Anyhow, Princess Margaret was certainly an enigma in many ways; she liked the bohemian set but never let it be forgotten "who she was"; she cavorted round the Caribbean with Roddy Llewellyn while married, yet remained unfailingly religious to the end of her life. Then there's the member of the Home family who supposedly committed suicide "over her" (they supposedly had a love affair) - but nothing interfered with her duties as a mother and she certainly raised two amazing children who adored and respected her and are both very much loved by HM The Queen.

When I'm done with all the QEQM bios, I'm going to read anything new about Princess Margaret; does anyone know if an authorised biography was/is/will be written about her? I'm sure that would be a real page-turner and it might also provide more insight into the private character of the Queen Mother.:flowers:
 
I read somewhere about a routine firedrill being carried out at Clarence House. The Household-headed by QEQM-assembled as required. The next stage of the procedure could not take place because somebody pointed out that HRHPM had not come out of her room,to which the QM replied that "she will just have to burn". On another occasion, QEII was interupted at a gathering, with the information that PM had phoned in a ver agitated state and was threatening to throw herself from her window, to which HM raised her eyes to the ceiling and said that she couldn't hurt herself because she lived on the ground floor!!!! which rather implies-given that the story is true?!!!-that HM had heard it all before. I imagine that, at times, PM proved quite a trial to both Mama and sister.
 
I've also heard those stories and believe them to be true. I think I did mention in one of my posts that Margaret gave the QM a hard time over many things, especially what PM felt to be her lack of a proper education. I completely agree that PM gave both her mother and sister a rather difficult time. Knowing the Queen, HM probably didn't interfere much, unless constitutional issues were at stake, as in the divorce from Snowdon and the situation with Peter Townsend.

Interestingly, King George VI was absolutely determined to show no favouritism between his two daughters and they wore identical clothes long past the age common for children then to do. As he grew up as a second son, he felt he had suffered while his brother David got all the attention and he was determined to not let history repeat itself. This attitude is probably why both of the Queens Elizabeth tended to give Margaret a lot of leeway where behaviour was concerned. HM The Queen also realised that Princess Margaret's official standing in the Royal Household had come down quite a bit since their father's death. HM also showed remarkable sensitivity to her mother's position, knowing it must be a shock to go from being the Queen Consort in BP to being the Queen Mother in Clarence House. (Incidentally, the QM would have preferred Marlborough House as Queen Mary died just prior to the Coronation, but money had already been spent on changing Clarence House for her and in those austere times, the government was leery of seeming to waste money. After all QEQM had done for the country in WWII, one would think they'd have been happy to make her happy, even if some money had already been spent on Clarence House. Marlborough House was far more appropriate and better located and needed nothing but changes in decor. Clarence House certainly would not have stood empty. It's a shame that the government didn't allow the switch as the QM was so battered by grief and the country owed her a debt that money could never repay, IMHO)

But no matter what the Royal Household thought, HM The Queen, Queen Elizabeth and Princess Margaret formed the absolute centre of the Royal Family until the two deaths in 2002. One great book called them "the implacable troika at the heart of the Royal Family".

The story with PM threatening to throw herself out the window was, I believe, when she was "seeing" Robin Douglas-Home who later did commit suicide, himself. They were involved in a "romance" of some sort circa 1965, I think. I have to literally LOL at the vision in my imagination of HM The Queen raising her eyes and telling them that "Margot's" room is on the ground floor. I can see it as clearly as though I had been there!:ROFLMAO:
 
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