Henry VIII (1491-1547) and Wives

[Kotroman]

But to my knowledge Anne wasn't the type to read religious works or be very interested in religion (besides of which it could be a very dangerous interest in Henry VIII's England, and it almost got Katharine Parr in trouble).

I agree with you. It's no wonder that Anne of Cleves wasn't religious. Her father was Protestant and her mother was Roman Catholic; she was raised as (nominal) Protestant, but converted to Catholicism when she came to England because Henry VIII expected her to do so. Being raised in a multi-religion family and easily converting as an adult doesn't indicate religiousness.

Catharine of Aragon was very religious, so was Katharine Parr (in very different ways).

What you've said here is very interesting! I've never thought about it! The first and final wife were indeed both religious, but in totally different ways. Catherine of Aragon was a blind follower of the Roman Catholich Church and spent much time praying, while Catherine Parr spent much more time thinking about her religion and considering various Christian denominations. The fact that Henry VIII didn't like their religiousness is also common to both of them. To Henry VIII, Catherine of Aragon was too firm, while Catherine Parr was too flexible.

 

[JulieS]

Her father was Protestant and her mother was Roman Catholic; she was raised as (nominal) Protestant, but converted to Catholicism when she came to England because Henry VIII expected her to do so.

Henry VIII expected Anne of Cleves to convert to Roman Catholicism ? I don't understand.

 

[Grace Angel]

Yes, he expected her to convert to Catholicism because in Henry VIII's England, the religion as practiced was Catholicism, just without the Pope. Henry wasn't Protestant as we would understand it, he was Catholic to his grave with the exception that he said the Pope had no authority over the Church of England, and Henry had of course closed the monasteries as well and had them destroyed, stripping them of their wealth.But The Church of England of Henry's day was not the later Anglican Church of England, it was Catholic, although not with the Pope included, as Henry was head of it.

 

[Kotroman]

Henry VIII expected Anne of Cleves to convert to Roman Catholicism ? I don't understand.

Like Grace Angel explained above, Henry VIII expexcted Anne of Cleves to convert to Catholicism (not Roman Catholicism)

 

[Grace Angel]

Anne was ahead of her time on the religion issue. Elizabeth I was too, maybe she saw something in Anne's example. In that way, Anne was modern than women such as Katharine Parr and Catharine of Aragon. It's too bad we don't know more of Anne's looks or character, but I think her life can be regarded as fairly sucessful, she seems to have been happy.

 

[JulieS]

Like Grace Angel explained above, Henry VIII expexcted Anne of Cleves to convert to Catholicism (not Roman Catholicism)

I understand now.

 

[Emeralds and Opals]

Is David Starkey the reincarnation of Henry VIII? - Telegraph

"Henry VIII: Mind of a Tyrant will be shown on Channel 4 on Monday 6 April at 9pm."

 

[Russophile]

BTW, that Sunday gossip magazine Parade has reported that Joss Stone will be playing Anne of Cleeves on The Tudors.
PARADE Magazine | Joss Stone: I Like Being a Free Spirit

 

[Lady Laura]

she is a wee bit attractive to be playing Anne of Cleves, and I was dissapointed Anne Boleyn never had those famous black eyes...but I'm so impressed with the direct quotes in the script from letters and state papers.

 

[Russophile]

she is a wee bit attractive to be playing Anne of Cleves, and I was dissapointed Anne Boleyn never had those famous black eyes...but I'm so impressed with the direct quotes in the script from letters and state papers.

I agree. But then I always found Anne of Cleves by Holbein to be very attractive. Too bad Great Harry did not!
http://www.thehudsonschool.org/renassiance folder/04cleves.jpg

 

[Lady Laura]

Holbien painted her sweetly...but the portrait of her in the orange and black dress by a flemish artist is perhaps more realistic...her eyes are much more droopy, the nose longer, her figure gangly...but she had dignity!

 

[Grace Angel]

Something about Joss Stone's face does remind me quite a bit of Anne of Cleves, at least the way she's she painted in the Holbein portrait, which maybe a bit idealized. Joss Stone maybe too glamourous though for this role. But she's not as glamourous as some singers, actresses they could have gotten.

 

[Russophile]

Something about Joss Stone's face does remind me quite a bit of Anne of Cleves, at least the way she's she painted in the Holbein portrait, which maybe a bit idealized. Joss Stone maybe too glamourous though for this role. But she's not as glamourous as some singers, actresses they could have gotten.

Glamourous is not the word I would use to describe Joss Stone. Hippie, flower child, earthy, yes, but glamourous, not so much. . .

 

[Grace Angel]

Well, Anne of Cleves wasn't too glamourous either, so maybe that fits.

 

[Emeralds and Opals]

BBC NEWS | UK | Henry VIII armour to be exhibited

"Henry VIII: Dressed to Kill runs from 3 April to 17 January 2010-Tower of London."



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...kill-despite-rapidly-expanding-waistline.html

"How Henry VIII dressed to kill despite his rapidly expanding waistline."

 

[Skydragon]

Divorced, beheaded, died. Divorced, beheaded, survived. It’s a simple little mnemonic, a rhyme many of us learned at school to remember the fate of Henry VIII’s six wives.

Daily Express | Express Yourself :: The many mistresses of Henry the Eighth

 

[Kotroman]

Divorced, beheaded, died. Divorced, beheaded, survived. It’s a simple little mnemonic, a rhyme many of us learned at school to remember the fate of Henry VIII’s six wives.

I've always wondered: how much of British history do children learn in British schools? I mean, the British history itself is rich, let alone the rest of the history of Europe and Asia. So, how much details of British history were you taught? Did you need learn all the British monarchs by heart and such things?

 

[Lady Ann]

Glamourous is not the word I would use to describe Joss Stone. Hippie, flower child, earthy, yes, but glamourous, not so much. . .

I love Joss Stone and the fact that she dose not wear shoes is great lol ........ Free spirit is the word i would use to descrbe her ...

 

[Lady Ann]

Speaking of Tudors on TV, have they gotten that far yet? Wonder what they would say about it. . .

No, they have just killed Anne B. and we have been shown some of Jane S it starts in 7 days here... I can't wait love that show !!!

 

[Grace Angel]

I've always wondered: how much of British history do children learn in British schools? I mean, the British history itself is rich, let alone the rest of the history of Europe and Asia. So, how much details of British history were you taught? Did you need learn all the British monarchs by heart and such things?

I'm American, but in America a few years ago I had a young British woman as a professor in college teaching a class on British history from the reign of James II to World II. She had been educated in England until college. She wasn't an expert on British history, hadn't studied it in college, it wasn't her area, but she was supposed to teach a class in it since apparently there was nobody else in the department to do so, and it was her own country. She knew enough about British history in general, but she sure didn't know much about English royalty, except the basics, and me and another girl also American knew more about English royalty than she because people would have questions about English royalty, and we'd answer them, she'd say, I'd have to look that up. She knew the politics, but not much about British royalty otherwise, which she freely admitted. She went to Harvard in America, but I'm not sure what her education was back in England.

 

[iowabelle]

I would assume that most people are as woefully ignorant of their history as Americans are. (The only exception I have observed is among the Chinese graduate students I've met, who don't understand why Americans complain about having to learn a mere roughly 500 years of history.)

 

[Skydragon]

I've always wondered: how much of British history do children learn in British schools? I mean, the British history itself is rich, let alone the rest of the history of Europe and Asia. So, how much details of British history were you taught? Did you need learn all the British monarchs by heart and such things?

It seems to depend on the type of school and which year. I went to public school and we learned names, dates, the times, as they were then understood/known. The British dominance and misuse of other nations was glossed over, luckily, I had a brilliant Professor he was more than happy to 'spill the beans'. I have to say most of it gets forgotten the older you get, clearly I can't speak for other schools in modern times.

 

[Russophile]

I've always wondered: how much of British history do children learn in British schools? I mean, the British history itself is rich, let alone the rest of the history of Europe and Asia. So, how much details of British history were you taught? Did you need learn all the British monarchs by heart and such things?

Here is an interesting web site of nursery rhymes that children were taught for their history.
Nursery Rhymes lyrics, origins and history

 

[Emeralds and Opals]

'Exciting discovery' reveals Henry VIII as firm believer in Catholicism - Telegraph

 

[iowabelle]

'Exciting discovery' reveals Henry VIII as firm believer in Catholicism - Telegraph

I don't see what's so exciting about this discovery. H8 was "Defender of the Faith" after all. And it wasn't so much that H8 was against the Church of Rome as that he was for H8.

And I think it's a bit much to expect a teenaged prince to have fully developed religious views.

 

[Grace Angel]

I agree that when he was younger he believed in traditional Roman Catholicism. In fact, he wrote a book ( I suppose it was actually ghostwritten, but it had his name on it and he argreed with it) against Martin Luther/heresy I believe. I never doubted that he did believe in traditional Roman Catholicism. The only reason he ever broke with the church was because he wanted to be his own authority and not accept the pope's authority, in regards to in particular, his marriage to Catharine of Aragon, which he wanted ended. When the pope was relunctant to do this, partly because the pope was a prisoner of Catharine's nephew Emperior Charles V, Henry had had it. His break with Roman Catholicism was never about religious doubts. It might never have happened, in fact, had Catharine of Aragon given him a male heir.

 

[Kotroman]

I understand that Henry VIII broke off with Roman Catholicism, but never with Catholicism. That's why Anne of Cleves had to convert to Catholicism and that's why Catherine Parr hid her interest in Protestantism. Am I right?

 

[Grace Angel]

Yes, that's true. He broke with the pope and abolished monasteries and the like ( so he could sieze the church's wealth, it was all about him), but he remained Catholic, just not Roman. So the article really revealed little that was new as he never really had eligious differences with the church. To him, it was all about who the power belonged to.

 

[iowabelle]

I don't think you can be a traditional Roman Catholic without acknowledging the supremacy of the Pope. That's a key.

 

[Grace Angel]

I don't think he had any issues with the Pope either though before he wanted a divorce from Catharine of Aragon. The Pope actually thought he was a good Catholic monarch before that, and was pleased with his book against Luther. Henry was always very interested in theological issues even more so than usual in the 16th century, long before he broke with Rome.