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  #1141  
Old 02-27-2021, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
He was very fearful of a Franco-Scottish invasion ,the French sank the Mary Rose during one attack on Portsmouth and the Isle of Wight.
Yes & he actually witnessed that sinking of course. The exhibition at the Portsmouth Naval Museum is fascinating. Am I right in thinking that the ship just keeled over for some unknown reason rather than as a direct result of French action? Or are there conflicting accounts?
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  #1142  
Old 02-27-2021, 05:46 PM
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No-one's entirely sure, but the most likely explanation is that, as the ship was about to fire her guns, she went over in strong winds, and water flooded in through the open gunports.
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  #1143  
Old 02-28-2021, 12:34 PM
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The Mary Rose sank during the Battle of the Solent on the 18/19th of July 1545 at the Solent, between Hampshire and the Isle of Wight.

The French had actually launched an invasion of England!

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  #1144  
Old 03-01-2021, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
No-one's entirely sure, but the most likely explanation is that, as the ship was about to fire her guns, she went over in strong winds, and water flooded in through the open gunports.
What a dreadful event. It sank very quickly with great loss of life.
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  #1145  
Old 03-01-2021, 12:40 PM
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The Mary Rose sank during the Battle of the Solent on the 18/19th of July 1545 at the Solent, between Hampshire and the Isle of Wight.

The French had actually launched an invasion of England!

Fascinating picture. Incredible detail. The masts of the sinking Mary Rose & Henry on his horse.
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  #1146  
Old 03-01-2021, 02:18 PM
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Fascinating picture. Incredible detail. The masts of the sinking Mary Rose & Henry on his horse.
The French Armada was actually larger than the Spanish one ,the French King had 30,000 troops ready and they planned to take the Isle of Wight.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French..._Isle_of_Wight
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  #1147  
Old 03-03-2021, 04:13 PM
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This event is not well covered by British history books at all really. It's a very dramatic tale! I wonder what the French had planned to do if they'd won?
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  #1148  
Old 03-03-2021, 04:57 PM
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This event is not well covered by British history books at all really. It's a very dramatic tale! I wonder what the French had planned to do if they'd won?
The Isle of Wight or Ireland were perfect staging points for an invasion of England had James V of Scotland lived longer he too might have joined forces with the French. Though it seems the French had a steady line of communications with his widow Marie de Guise.

The French and English later signed the Treaty of Ardres in 1546.
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  #1149  
Old 03-23-2021, 05:44 PM
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Throughout the proceedings leading to his divorce of Catherine of Aragon, Henry VIII claimed not that his marriage to Catherine had broken down but that it had always been against divine law.
If this were true would not the Bishop or Archbishop have stated that the marriage should not occur?
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  #1150  
Old 03-24-2021, 10:34 AM
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There are many people on this board with a lot more knowledge but I think Henry VII and Isabelle and Ferdinand were aware of that there was a possible impediment to a wedding between Catherine and Henry VIII. The potential issue was based on Leviticus 20, which prohibited a man from marrying his brother's widow. The Bible contradicts itself on this point as Deuteronomy 25:5–10 actually encourages men to marry a sister-in-law, if she doesn't have children.

To ensure there would be no question of the legality of the union, the parents requested and received, a dispensation from the Pope. With the Pope's dispensation, Henry and Catherine were able to marry in the Catholic church.

Many years later, Henry adopted the position that the Pope did not have the authority to issue a dispensation because the Pope could not nullify God's law, as described in Leviticus. The rest is history.
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  #1151  
Old 03-24-2021, 11:23 AM
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Had the Pope not been a prisoner of the Holy Roman Emperor there might have been a different outcome during the king's great matter!
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  #1152  
Old 04-17-2021, 06:45 PM
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Was King Henry VIII desperate for a son?
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  #1153  
Old 04-17-2021, 07:53 PM
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Was King Henry VIII desperate for a son?
Yes. And his second and third wives were too.
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  #1154  
Old 04-17-2021, 07:55 PM
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Of course he was desperate for a son, a male heir. Daughters, although useful for making foreign alliances, were not considered so important (and of course up until that time there had only been one (contested) female sovereign, Mathilda, at a time of dreadful civil war.)

Henry was the only surviving son of his father. As such he wanted and needed at least one son of his own to grow to adulthood.
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  #1155  
Old 04-17-2021, 08:17 PM
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Yes. And his second and third wives were too.
ANd his first wife, she had many children, only one survived to adulthood. One of their sons, Prince Henry, lived but a few weeks and got sick and died. Henry had already gotten tired of Anne Boleyn at the time she had miscarried their son. He was through with her after that.
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  #1156  
Old 04-17-2021, 08:37 PM
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ANd his first wife, she had many children, only one survived to adulthood. One of their sons, Prince Henry, lived but a few weeks and got sick and died. Henry had already gotten tired of Anne Boleyn at the time she had miscarried their son. He was through with her after that.
I don't think Catherine of Aragon was desperate for a son, at least not to the same extent as Anne and Jane. She never felt her life depended on it. Would she have preferred one? Yes, but as the daughter of Queen Isabella she saw nothing wrong with her daughter sitting on the throne. But Anne Boleyn and Jane Seymour knew they would never be safe without a son - by that time Henry had made it clear he would stop at nothing to get one - and neither came from a powerful family who could protect them from Henry's wrath.
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  #1157  
Old 04-17-2021, 08:43 PM
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Yes. And his second and third wives were too.
I imagine his fifth wife would have welcomed a son - but before the allegations of adultery.
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  #1158  
Old 04-17-2021, 09:01 PM
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I think all Henry’s wives would have welcomed a male heir. However, I do believe that Anne Boleyn was the most desperate. The romance between herself and Henry, the determination not to be merely a royal mistress, then the long years of waiting for Henry to obtain a divorce. That all built up high expectations of a fruitful marriage.

The stress when Elizabeth was born instead of the expected son, the knowledge that her marriage was not going well (for several reasons) afterwards, probably built up tremendous pressure on Anne. The stillbirths in 1534 (sex unknown) and son in 1536, ended all hope for her.
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  #1159  
Old 04-18-2021, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Gawin View Post
I don't think Catherine of Aragon was desperate for a son, at least not to the same extent as Anne and Jane. She never felt her life depended on it. Would she have preferred one? Yes, but as the daughter of Queen Isabella she saw nothing wrong with her daughter sitting on the throne. But Anne Boleyn and Jane Seymour knew they would never be safe without a son - by that time Henry had made it clear he would stop at nothing to get one - and neither came from a powerful family who could protect them from Henry's wrath.
And not just the daughter of a Queen, but her sister then inherited the Kingdom of Castille in her own right. Though she likely wanted a son in her younger years, she was also deeply religious and would have seen it as God's will for her daughter to be the future Queen.

Anne Boleyn knew her life was in grave danger if she could not provide a living son. It's possible she could have saved her own life if she agreed to an annulment, but that would have made her daughter illegitimate.
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  #1160  
Old 04-18-2021, 02:48 AM
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Elizabeth would have been declared illegitimate without Anne's consent. Her signing off on the agreement was moot. She knew this.Egged on by her arch enemy Cromwell, Henry was determined that Anne would die.

Considering the gravity of the trumped up charges against her....witchcraft, adultery, incest with her own brother...there could have been no other outcome.
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