George IV (1762-1830)

tiaraprin · #1 08-23-2005, 04:56 AM

Before the collapse of the marriage of Charles and Diana, there was another feuding Prince and Princess of Wales--George and Caroline of Brunswick. Their ill-fated marriage, separation, fights, and media ploys (even back then) can make Charles and Diana's marriage look somewhat sane!!

Let's take a trip back in history to these feuding Wales'. There is plenty of material to read and see. What are your opinions on George and Caroline??

Warren · #2 08-23-2005, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiaraprin

Before the collapse of the marriage of Charles and Diana, there was another feuding Prince and Princess of Wales--George and Caroline of Brunswick. Their ill-fated marriage, separation, fights, and media ploys (even back then) can make Charles and Diana's marriage look somewhat sane!!
Let's take a trip back in history to these feuding Wales'. There is plenty of material to read and see. What are your opinions on George and Caroline??

Well, there's the great story of George's coronation where he made the most elaborate (almost "Imperial") arrangements, only for Queen Caroline. who wasn't invited (!!) to try and gatecrash. But she wasn't allowed into the Abbey. Very embarassing for all concerned, and for poor Caroline, downhill from there.

Recommended book: "The Unruly Queen - The Life of Queen Caroline" by Flora Fraser, 1996.
.

tiaraprin · #3 08-23-2005, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren

Well, there's the great story of George's coronation where he made the most elaborate (almost "Imperial") arrangements, only for Queen Caroline. who wasn't invited (!!) to try and gatecrash. But she wasn't allowed into the Abbey. Very embarassing for all concerned, and for poor Caroline, downhill from there.

Recommended book: "The Unruly Queen - The Life of Queen Caroline" by Flora Fraser, 1996.
.

Yes, she was barred from Westminster Abbey at many entrances such as Poet's Corner. She was a broken woman after this and died just a few weeks later.

On her tombstone it has the inscription "Caroline, the Injured Queen of England"

Australian · #4 08-23-2005, 09:48 AM

Some info on George
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_...United_Kingdom

Info on Caroline
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroline_of_Brunswick

What a fiasco of a marriage. I wonder what was the actual cause of her death.

tiaraprin · #5 08-23-2005, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Australian

Some info on George
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_...United_Kingdom

Info on Caroline
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroline_of_Brunswick

What a fiasco of a marriage. I wonder what was the actual cause of her death.

Some reports have said it was due to the large amounts of Laudanum she was taking. Others say it was a problem of the digestive tract or cancer.

Mapple · #6 08-23-2005, 01:34 PM

An interesting link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pains_a...ties_Bill_1820

Elspeth · #7 08-23-2005, 05:01 PM

The tabloids would have loved it.

It's also interesting that George was encouraged by his mistress to marry Caroline rather than another possible princess because the mistress thought that Caroline would pose less of a threat to her than the other princess would have. In that case, George was annoyed enough by the fiasco of his marriage that he ended up ditching the mistress, unlike Charles and Camilla.

tiaraprin · #8 08-24-2005, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspeth

The tabloids would have loved it.

It's also interesting that George was encouraged by his mistress to marry Caroline rather than another possible princess because the mistress thought that Caroline would pose less of a threat to her than the other princess would have. In that case, George was annoyed enough by the fiasco of his marriage that he ended up ditching the mistress, unlike Charles and Camilla.

Yes Lady Jersey, then George's mistress, picked out Caroline and coached Caroline to do everything George would hate to insure her position. Lady Jersey picked horrid clothes, hair designs, etc., all calculated to keep the Prince in her pocket. Lady Jersey was much older than the Prince and feared her attraction was slipping now that she was a grandmother in her 40's.

EmpressRouge · #9 08-24-2005, 08:20 PM

Even back then, the public sided with the woman in this nasty feud. It wasn't so much that the British public loved Caroline (who had many nasty faults) but they detested George. This exchange from Blackadder the Third sums it up:

Blackadder: ...They're going to bankrupt you.

George: Well, they can't do that. Why, the public love me! Only the other day, I
was out in the street and they sang, `We hail Prince George! We hail Prince
George!'

Blackadder: `We *hate* Prince George', sir. `We *hate* Prince George!'

tiaraprin · #10 08-24-2005, 08:42 PM

http://www.georgianindex.net/princew...s_wedding.html

tiaraprin · #11 08-24-2005, 08:45 PM

Worthy of note:

At the wedding, George was quite drunk. He couldn't fufill his marital duties that night and fell out of the bed onto a grate. Caroline said that is where she left him!!

He managed somehow within the next 2 days because their only child, Charlotte was born exactly nine months later!

tiaraprin · #12 09-01-2005, 12:40 AM

Here is a potrait of Caroline of Brunswick:
http://www.answers.com/topic/caroline-of-brunswick

Caroline has been spoken of being quite unattractive and unhygienic. This portrait of her seems pleasant enough. Did the artist flatter her, or were all these damaging reports as to her looks and hygiene true?? What say you?

Elspeth · #13 09-01-2005, 12:44 AM

It wasn't just George who complained of her hygiene, so the chances are that the portrait painter was taking a few liberties. As far as her being unattractive, that may be in the eyes of the beholder. Like another couple of Princes of Wales I could mention, George seemed to prefer older women.

iowabelle · #14 09-01-2005, 12:56 AM

But for the fact that he was Prince of Wales, George was no prize himself! Going in drunk to his new bride....

And I'm not even sure that being Prince of Wales made up for his shortcomings.

(And to be fair to Camilla, she's what, just about 1 1/2 years older than Charles? I just found out I'm a very distant cousin to Camilla, so I have to stick up for her, just the teensiest bit.)

tiaraprin · #15 09-01-2005, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iowabelle

But for the fact that he was Prince of Wales, George was no prize himself! Going in drunk to his new bride....

And I'm not even sure that being Prince of Wales made up for his shortcomings.

(And to be fair to Camilla, she's what, just about 1 1/2 years older than Charles? I just found out I'm a very distant cousin to Camilla, so I have to stick up for her, just the teensiest bit.)

How did you discover you were related to Camilla?? I wouldn't be pleased if I was related to her!!!

I wouldn't even acknowledge the fact!!

tiaraprin · #16 09-01-2005, 02:56 AM

Here are two engravings of Princess Charlotte of Wales. One is of her on her wedding day to Queen Victoria's beloved Uncle Leopold of Saxe-Gotha and the other is a sole portrait of her in 1816.

Charlotte was the only child of George IV and Caroline of Brunswick. Charlotte had a turbulent childhood due to her parents' troubled marriage and their exploits. Charlotte had finally found hapiness with Prince Leopold only to die in childbirth of a stillborn son in 1817. If Charlotte had lived, Queen Victoria would never have born.

I wonder what kind of queen Charlotte would have been?

http://locutus.ucr.edu/~cathy/char/char1.html

http://locutus.ucr.edu/~cathy/char/char2.html

lashinka2002 · #17 09-01-2005, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mapple

An interesting link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pains_a...ties_Bill_1820

I wonder what Princess Charlotte thought of her father's treatment of her mother.

tiaraprin · #18 09-02-2005, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lashinka2002

I wonder what Princess Charlotte thought of her father's treatment of her mother.

From what I have read, she wasn't happy and torn most of the time. Queen Charlotte tried to keep her from her mother and her father eventually got custody with very little visitation by Caroline. Before she met Leopold, George IV tried to force Charlotte to marry the Prince of Orange. Charlotte ran away to her mother's house for refuge and to show how distasteful the idea was to her. Charlotte was quite independent-minded for her day and she was determined to have a say in who her husband was.

iowabelle · #19 09-02-2005, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lashinka2002

I wonder what Princess Charlotte thought of her father's treatment of her mother.

One of the original dysfunctional families, don't you think?

tiaraprin · #20 09-03-2005, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iowabelle

One of the original dysfunctional families, don't you think?

There was dysfunction long before this. Go Back to Henry II's reign with his wife Eleanor of Aquitaine. That was a dysfunctional marriage that produced children who all wanted their father's crown. Eleanor wanted revenge for Henry's affair with Rosamund Clifford. This was truly a violent, dysfunctional family during the Plantagenet saga.