Duke and Duchess of Windsor (1894-1972) and (1895-1986)

[Duchess]

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

I think that's what fascinates me where Wallis is concerned. She was just such an enigma and her latter years are just so surreal and sad.

this is so true. i recently finished reading a book about wallis. although it was very "pro" wallis i think it was a much more fair picture than past books have been. it's very sad that a family can be so cold and not forgive things that they really have no reason to not forgive. i can understand the duke and duchess of york holding a grudge (although i think even they should have softened in later years) but the current queen and her family should have changed and extended the olive branch and allowed edward to feel comfortable in visiting the UK. and i think they certainly should have made wallis feel more welcome in the last years of her life. it's very sad.

[BeatrixFan]

I remember reading "The Heart has it's Reasons" and I actually sobbed because up until reading it, I'd just thought of Wallis as "that woman" but suddenly, here was this woman who was quite possibly in way above her head, living a life she didn't want to live. I think David was devoted to her till his dying day but for her, I think the marriage was a whim that lasted far longer than she ever expected it to but then when David had gone, she suddenly realised that she was an old lady, left alone and no longer able to pick up any man she wanted because she wasn't "that woman" any more.

I think you make a good point when you say that they should have made her feel welcome. I almost wish that she'd be given a residence like Thatched House Lodge etc - I think it's incredibly sad to think of her living as a kind of recluse, smothered in make-up and jewels, eeking out her last days all alone. But strangely, it seemed to happen to alot of women like her. Margaret, Duchess of Argyll suffered with the same fate.

[Avareenah]

I agree about the book "The Heart Has Its Reasons". It was really the first glimpse I had of Wallis as a human being with feelings -- even though a few things in the life of Wallis and David were probably glossed over in it.

Suzanne Blum, who I believe was (or made herself) executor of the estate, has been blamed for isolating Wallis in her final days and controlling all her finances.

I wonder would the RF have stepped in in any way to at least arrange for the care of this lonely and pathetic old lady if they had to?

[Madame Royale]

I've always been sympathetic to Wallis and David.

I really do feel they were both, primarily the Duchess, harshly done by their respective family and I do believe the Queen Mother to have been most disagreeable for so many years to a woman she did not, really, even know.

Its very little wonder as to why Wallis didn't much care for Elizabeth in return.

The thought that Wallis 'killed the King' (by way of the abdication) is so rediculous (in my mind) and really, I think shame on the Queen Mother for even harbouring such a thought. It was the effects of chronic smoking that killed George VI, and the stresses of war would not have alleviated the inevitability of his smoking ways.

But it went to show that when one doesn't wish to place responsibility on those who are infact responsible (The King for his own actions), that the focus shall be directed to those who are already the focuss of ones' disliking.

pathetic old lady

Interesting observation.

[Elspeth]

I think the current Queen was always very aware of the way her mother felt about just about everything, and the Queen Mother's antipathy toward Wallis was very well known. It seems as though in family matters Mummie's opinion was always very important, and we know what Mummie's opinion of the Windsors was.

[MARG]

Originally poste by Elspeth

It seems as though in family matters Mummie's opinion was always very important, and we know what Mummie's opinion of the Windsors was.

Whilst I think that personal distaste played a large part in the public perception of the RF regarding the abdication, I think we have to remember that it really was another time, another age even. Outside of the aristocracy divorce was almost unknown.

Divorced women were regarded as shameless and usually seen as adulterous and you had better believe that they would not have been invited to join the local ladies guild! The masses (upper, middle and lower classes) throughout the Empire would not have countenanced such a person as their Queen. And, it must also be remembered that she was divorced more than once and rumours of her love affairs were rampant.

To find out now that there were also serious security concerns makes the rejection of their marriage serendipitous. Unwise and possible treasonous behavior would have seriously damaged the monarchy and an Empire facing war far more than the abdication of the King to wed an unsuitable woman.

[Avareenah]

Originally Posted by Elspeth

I think the current Queen was always very aware of the way her mother felt about just about everything, and the Queen Mother's antipathy toward Wallis was very well known. It seems as though in family matters Mummie's opinion was always very important, and we know what Mummie's opinion of the Windsors was.

Most definitely, Elspeth, I agree. "Mummie" completely ruled the roost until the day she died, in my opinion. Even note how differently the Queen has dressed since her mother passed away in 2002.

[branchg]

Originally Posted by Avareenah

Most definitely, Elspeth, I agree. "Mummie" completely ruled the roost until the day she died, in my opinion. Even note how differently the Queen has dressed since her mother passed away in 2002.

Apparently so. The Queen Mother was also said to be adamantly against Charles marrying Camilla and refused to receive her formally. The Queen would not even consider it until after her mother died.

[BeatrixFan]

Well, I doubt that very much as there are pictures of Camilla chatting to the Queen Mother at the races. More recently, it's well documented that the Queen Mother let Charles and Camilla spent time at the Castle of Mey. According to Gyles Brandreth who interviewed, "a member of the Royal Family" for his book "Portrait of a Love Affair", the Queen Mother met Camilla several times.

[Lady Marmalade]

I think Wallis knew exactly what she was getting into. I am sure she loved David, but the proof is in the pudding.

For all the damage and scandal at that time she deserved NOT to be called HRH.

[BeatrixFan]

Are any of the Royal Family ever deserving of the style of HRH? That's what makes you a monarchist or a republican I guess.

[branchg]

Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade

I think Wallis knew exactly what she was getting into. I am sure she loved David, but the proof is in the pudding.

For all the damage and scandal at that time she deserved NOT to be called HRH.

I don't think she loved him at the time of the Abdication. If anything, I think she was flattered by his attention, but would have been happy to move on with her life. Once he abdicated, she had no choice but to see it through.

Given the shock and dismay of a former king marrying a twice-divorced woman at the time, I don't think George VI had much choice but to deny her royal rank. But by the 1960's, The Queen should have rectified the matter.

[Zonk]

And admit that her father was wrong...that wouldn't have happened.

Both the Duke and Duchess were victims of their times. I am sure there was enough blame (Queen Mother, Queen Mary and the DUke and Duchess). As someone mentioned before..times were different. Heck if you were divorced, you were sure to lose all connections and people treated you as a pariah! Can you imagine someone who was married and divorced twice marrying into the Royal Family. Based on her track record...I am sure they thought she was going to do the same thing to David. As I recall reading somewhere...no one wanted a thrice divorced HRH running around the continent.

[Avareenah]

Originally Posted by branchg

Given the shock and dismay of a former king marrying a twice-divorced woman at the time, I don't think George VI had much choice but to deny her royal rank. But by the 1960's, The Queen should have rectified the matter.

Regardless of the Queen's personal opinion on this, she would never have rectified this when Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother, was alive. Obviously after she died in 2002, it was too late...

[Lady Marmalade]

I think she loved him but was not in love with him. I think maybe she was in love with the idea of being queen perhaps..the trappings of royalty.

[branchg]

Originally Posted by Zonk

And admit that her father was wrong...that wouldn't have happened.

Most accounts have stated The Queen was willing to grant the style by 1967, but her mother remained adamantly opposed. She wasn't going to force The Queen Mother into an uncomfortable position.

[Zonk]

Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade

I think she loved him but was not in love with him. I think maybe she was in love with the idea of being queen perhaps..the trappings of royalty.

I must disagree with that assessment. I think she thought about being queen (before the abdication) for a QUICK SECOND....she would have perferred to remain the mistress. The power behind the throne. Let's face it...she had the ear of the King, the jewelery, a majority of London society accepted her as such (King's mistress) why marry him and have to deal with all the drama. The endless obligations, the ceremonies, etc.

Based upon what I read..and some of it hasn't been exactly favorable to her..I will admit that. She was pretty shocked that he was going to give it up...I think he made that decision without really talking to her about it.

[Madame Royale]

Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade

maybe she was in love with the idea of being queen perhaps..the trappings of royalty.

I'm not sure of that. I would have thought Wallis to have been well aware that if she were to marry david, she would not be Queen. The prospect of her attaining that role was always (as far as I can tell) in the red.

And with no offence intended to our American members at all I highly doubt the idea of an American born Queen Consort (divorced or otherwise) to have gone down terribly well with the British public. Infact, I still largely feel that would be the case now.

[Elspeth]

I remember reading a quote from a politician who said something along the lines that the upper classes didn't mind that she was divorced but minded that she was American whereas the working classes didn't mind that she was American but minded dreadfully that she was divorced.

Times really have changed.

[Madame Royale]

hehe...you have to love the British.