Duke and Duchess of Windsor (1894-1972) and (1895-1986)

[Zonk]

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Zonk
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[Aliza]

Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi

Galitzine Wallis never wanted to be queen and she tried to prevent David from abdicating. This idea that she wanted to be Queen is a falsehood spread by people who believe she is the boogeyman who "stole their precious king".
Wallis was content in being the king's mistress and had no will to be his wife.
Plus there have been a few mistresses throughout history who were English and didn't play by the rules; perhaps you have forgotten about Anne Boleyn, Jane Seymour, and Elizabeth Woodville.

I was so glad to see this post, Xenia, you're so very correct, IMHO. Wallis gets a raw deal from so many when she never wanted him to abdicate or to become Queen. Personally, I believe David was determined to find a way out of being King and that his great love for Wallis was in some measure due to her being his way out.

All those who think she should have walked away from him don't realise he would have abdicated anyway and followed her, and can you imagine how much worse her reputation would have been if she had walked out on him and he abdicated?

Another unfair allegation is that Wallis never paid her bills when all her couturiers have stated that she paid them with unusual promptness. I guess once she was cast as the wicked woman people just kept piling onto the caricature and now it's becoming difficult to find anything out about the real woman beneath the image others have drawn and continue to draw about her. Diana Mitford's biography of Wallis is one of my favourites as she knew Wallis so well personally and IMHO it gets the closest to showing Wallis as a real person.

[Grandduchess24]

What if..
Edward VIII did not abdicate the throne and never met Wallis or left her because he wanted to fulfill his destiny to become King, who would he have married and what monarch would be constitutional monarch of great Britain and the commonwealth realms.

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by Grandduchess24

What if..
Edward VIII did not abdicate the throne and never met Wallis or left her because he wanted to fulfill his destiny to become King, who would he have married and what monarch would be constitutional monarch of great Britain and the commonwealth realms.

This is my own supposition but I think from what I've read about Edward VIII, the chances of him providing a heir to the throne would have been very slim and that Elizabeth II eventually would become Queen but perhaps not as early as she did.

[Princess of Durham]

Just curious, but if Edward VIII did not want to be king why all the talk about him setting up a "separate court" if he lived in England? Also, the other bits and pieces about Hitler's plan to put him on the throne? It's nice to think that he really did not want to be king but there are many stories that would lead us to believe otherwise ... unless those were all made up as well. Just curious......

[Vasillisos Markos]

Originally Posted by Princess of Durham

Just curious, but if Edward VIII did not want to be king why all the talk about him setting up a "separate court" if he lived in England? Also, the other bits and pieces about Hitler's plan to put him on the throne? It's nice to think that he really did not want to be king but there are many stories that would lead us to believe otherwise ... unless those were all made up as well. Just curious......

My dear Princess of Durham,

I don't believe they meant an actual court of a sovereign but instead, Edward VIII may have a group of followers who would make up a "court" for the former king and cause friction and controversy for George VI. Whereas I firmly believe Edward VIII did not want to be King, I also firmly believe once he abdicated, he missed all the perks which came with the office. He did not want the responsibility, just the fun.

[Tsaritsa]

You have it exactly right, dear Vassilisos Marcos. An added point is that by intimating that he would happily have remained King with Wallis as his Queen he throws the responsibility for his actions away from himself, something at which I think he was adept. Possibly he honed this talent as a child when he was reprimanded by his, impossible to please, father.

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by Tsaritsa

You have it exactly right, dear Vassilisos Marcos. An added point is that by intimating that he would happily have remained King with Wallis as his Queen he throws the responsibility for his actions away from himself, something at which I think he was adept. Possibly he honed this talent as a child when he was reprimanded by his, impossible to please, father.

If I may, I'd like to suggest that if Edward VIII's time was now, what would be considered his "court" could be described more as a "posse" or even in the late 20th century as "groupies". This was the type of environment he preferred and if I'm not mistaken, how he met Wallis in the first place.

[Tsaritsa]

Yes, Osipi, groupies and sycophants. I suspect that the young Royals of today can see them from a mile away and avoid them like the plague-very unlike Great uncle David, who I imagine, felt himself to be elevated by their company. I once read, that having, as an adult, read "Jane Eyre" he asked a dinner guest "Who are these Bronts(!!!) Have you ever heard of them?"!!! Clearly, David was never going to be intellectual and that can't be held against him, but IMO, the arrogance, vanity and stupidity which made him believe it unnecessary to expand his mind, can. Years later, Diana would be accused of lacking intellect, and would have been the first to agree, but she made up for it in other, more important ways. She found it possible to carry out her duties without the help and support of the "man I love" under more harrowing and arduous circumstances than, I imagine, David had ever experienced.

[Mermaid1962]

Plus Diana was neat and paid attention to her correspondence. She studied the issues relating to her patronages and so on. I know of at least a couple of professionals who were surprised by the grasp she had of certain illnesses. I don't think that Prince Edward, as Prince of Wales or as King, even tried to understand things.

Originally Posted by Tsaritsa

Clearly, David was never going to be intellectual anShe found it possible to carry out her duties without the help and support of the "man I love" under more harrowing and arduous circumstances than, I imagine, David had ever experienced.

[NGalitzine]

Originally Posted by Aliza

. Diana Mitford's biography of Wallis is one of my favourites as she knew Wallis so well personally and IMHO it gets the closest to showing Wallis as a real person.

Well the Mitfords and the Windsors did have a couple of things in common, namely politics and exile in Paris.

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Watching a documentary on youtube about Wallis Simpson and letters she wrote to Ernest. It was very sad and makes me feel so sorry for Wallis. She reminds me a lot of Camilla, only unfortunately David was no Prince Charles who was willing to play by the rules.

[Tsaritsa]

I, too, saw the documentary and like you, XeniaCasaraghi, felt some sympathy for Wallis-within the parameters of who she was-but I find that my sympathy wears a bit thin when I see how her life evolves. David would have done anything for her, so what was there to stop her from getting them both involved with-making a career of-charity work, hosting those, now so famous dinner parties, to raise funds for worthy causes? I suspect that neither had heard, indeed, would have laughed at the idea that duty was the price one paid paid on Earth for privilege. I find it ironic that in the end her jewellery was auctioned off for charity and I am sad beyond words at the long, lonely, protracted death she suffered, but maybe that was the price to be paid for the vapid, selfish, thoughtless life they both led.

[XeniaCasaraghi]

There is always some way to find to blame Wallis for something. Charity is something people should do because they want to. If the Windsor's didn't want to I'm not going to judge them for it. Clearly Wallis couldn't control everything when it came to Edward or else he wouldn't have abdicated. If he wanted to do charity work he could have done it himself. She stayed with him out of duty and loyalty; she didn't want to be marrid to him, perhaps that is her charity. And taking into consideration how she died, I find it appalling that anyone could think such a death was deserving because a person didn't do charity work.

[Tsaritsa]

Oh dear! Either I worded my last post extremely badly, for which my profuse apologies, or you misinterpreted my words. I carefully reread it and thankfully found nowhere had I said that those who fail to do charitable works deserve appalling deaths, to have done so would have been alien to my belief system. I did, however, use the word "maybe" because I am convinced that there are no free lunches and for all of us there may come a time when we are required to answer for how we have led our lives and just MAYBE in those answers lays the difference between leaving this world surrounded by those who love us and being remembered with warmth and affection or leaving it alone and for the most part forgotten.

[Nice Nofret]

Originally Posted by Aliza

Diana Mitford's biography of Wallis is one of my favourites as she knew Wallis so well personally and IMHO it gets the closest to showing Wallis as a real person.

It's Nancy Mitford you are talking about ; Diana was the beautiful Guinness/Mosley

[wymanda]

Originally Posted by Grandduchess24

What if..
Edward VIII did not abdicate the throne and never met Wallis or left her because he wanted to fulfill his destiny to become King, who would he have married and what monarch would be constitutional monarch of great Britain and the commonwealth realms.

I seem to recall reading, but can't remember where, that Queen Mary was matchmaking Edward & one of the Russian Grand Duchesses.

[NGalitzine]

Originally Posted by Nice Nofret

It's Nancy Mitford you are talking about ; Diana was the beautiful Guinness/Mosley

Yes, but it was Diana Mitford, Lady Mosely that lived in exile in Paris, knew the Windsors and in many ways had similar politcial beliefs as far as Fascism and Hitler are concerned.

[Princess of Durham]

Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos

My dear Princess of Durham,

I don't believe they meant an actual court of a sovereign but instead, Edward VIII may have a group of followers who would make up a "court" for the former king and cause friction and controversy for George VI. Whereas I firmly believe Edward VIII did not want to be King, I also firmly believe once he abdicated, he missed all the perks which came with the office. He did not want the responsibility, just the fun.

Thanks so much for your response. I guess by using the term "court" I was misleading. I was thinking more of a group that would somehow appear to be more supportive of him than King George and QE, not that there would be some "real" court. I think the idea of being King for fun rather than the responsbility of being King is exactly how he felt. It's easy to remember the good things about a situation/role and not the bad .... when you are out of it.

[Vasillisos Markos]

My dear Princess of Durham,

You are very welcome. I agree with you that Edward forgot all the duties and remembered all the good things about being King. Can you imagine if he lived in England after abdicating the throne? He would have undoubtedly, intentionally and unintentionally, created problems for George VI. There would have been comparisons drawn on both monarchs and no doubt the rivalry would have been intensified by the high flying set which followed the Duke and Duchess of Windsor and the country set associating with the King and Queen of England.