Duke and Duchess of Windsor (1894-1972) and (1895-1986)

[Mirabel]

Yes, George and Mary would never be anyone's choice for ideal parents.
And I also agree that Bertie's marriage was his salvation (perhaps one reason why it was said that he catered to her every wish). Elizabeth provided a stable, supportive family environment in which Bertie blossomed; David never had that.

I agree he was all surface charm and no real substance. Yet to some he was and remains a sympathetic character while Wallis is demonized.

I just watched the film Wallis and David, which gives an interesting view of this era.

[CarolinaLandgrave]

I think David blossomed, but in the only way he knew how. Lacking the maturity and sense of duty that his brother did, David continued to be the "eternal" child... the playboy... the life of the party..... That was his only outlet, his only way of blossoming.... And with this weak and shallow constitution, he naturally latched on to Wallis - the dominant force in his circle of friends.
Great Britain would have never survived Hitler with David as King.... ever!

[gfg02]

The return of Wallis Simpson

The return of Wallis Simpson - This Britain, UK - The Independent

[Penny Royalty]

Thanks for sharing gfg02. The description as to why the Duchess is intriguing left me wanting more. I don't know if it is because of William and Kate marrying and I don't think it is Madonna's depiction of her story that is what truly is intriguing. It is, to me, the enchanting anomaly of the drawing of one's attention from Kinghood epiphany to warmth of general and or generous love. Not meaning that there is no lack of involvement within the romance and attraction of those we speak of, to where we assume to understand the story.

I for one hope Madonna's attempt at portrayal enables the Windsors not to be painted as mortals who are misrepresented by mistaken identity. The history of people and of the Royals matter because they are and were contributors to the mass makeup of what we are as continued humans trying to get a perspective on surviving and of our dream of a utopia. So I wish the Royals and Madonna good luck. Maybe as indicated in the writing there is a genuine interest in Hollywood for such a cinema. The story is attractive and so is Wallis Simpson. Like I said I wish all parties involved nothing but good luck. I hope the movie will be great. Cheers.

[Vasillisos Markos]

After King Edward and Mrs. Simpson cruised the Mediterranean aboard The Nahlin, she stopped in Paris to shop and he returned to England. Mrs. Simpson became ill and while recuperating found the time to read the American newspapers which wrote much about their affair. The British newspapers were still silent out of respect for the monarchy.

Mrs. Simpson was so appalled that she wrote to the King and informed him she had decided to return to Mr. Simpson. Otherwise, she felt the two of them would create a disaster together. Edward telephoned her and threatened to cut his throat if she did not come to Balmoral. In my opinion, this very much sounds like a unhealthy psychological dependence by the King on Mrs. Simpson.

[EmpressRouge]

They've started airing Any Human Heart on PBS in the US and I find it interesting how we're getting another dose of the Windsors being portrayed in movies (the protagonist, Logan Montstuart, meets them by accident in France when they are the Prince of Wales and Mrs. Simpson and is assigned to keep an eye on them in Portugal and the Bahamas during the War as part of Navy intelligence) like in The King's Speech. Since it's a longer mini-series, there are more scenes of the Duke and especially of the Duchess in AHH compared to TKS (which only had one scene with Wallis). In both films, their Nazi sympathies are glanced over. In the beginning, the Windsors just seemed like spoiled, idle-rich celebrities but their characters are revealed to be much more sinister after the murder of Sir Harry Oakes. Tom Hollander and Gillian Anderson are very good as the Duke and Duchess although the Anderson is bit curvy and short (Wallis was slim and tall), but definitely has portrays Wallis' facial expressions and hold on David well.

[Mermaid1962]

I hadn't heard this story before, but I find it quite believable. Do you mind if I ask you where you found this item? I believe that he absolutely needed her in some way.

Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos

Edward telephoned her and threatened to cut his throat if she did not come to Balmoral. In my opinion, this very much sounds like a unhealthy psychological dependence by the King on Mrs. Simpson.

[Tsaritsa]

Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos

...In my opinion, this very much sounds like a unhealthy psychological dependence by the King on Mrs. Simpson.

VM, how succinctly you say in few words that which I say in volumes!!! It was though, to this I was alluding when I said he could not exist without her. Idle threat on his part? I'm inclined to think not. As you so rightly observe-an unhealthy psychological dependence and it may well have been a dawning knowledge of this which prompted her letter,she may suddenly have heard, too late, the word RUN. Suddenly realised, now that they were apart and she had space to evaluate her position, that the potato was just too damned hot. To me, the letter quite clearly says ..."I want out." It was less about them being a disaster together than him being a disaster for her. At some point it must have dawned on her that he had much more riding on their relationship than she had and any opportunity for escape was long gone. Was there a moment of blind terror? I can't imagine there wasn't. I'm experiencing a sense of entrapment, God knows what she felt. In her defence, I don't believe she knew what she was getting into and had it ever been possible for her to see into the future unfolding before her would she have made the same choices?

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by Mermaid1962

I hadn't heard this story before, but I find it quite believable. Do you mind if I ask you where you found this item? I believe that he absolutely needed her in some way.

I don't remember specifically David threatening to cut his throat (pardon my memory VM! ) however, I do remember David threatening to kill himself. Try Hugo Vickers The Private world of the Duke and Duchess of Windsor and Greg Kings The Duchess of Windsor: The uncommon life of Wallis Simpson.

[Vasillisos Markos]

Originally Posted by Mermaid1962

I hadn't heard this story before, but I find it quite believable. Do you mind if I ask you where you found this item? I believe that he absolutely needed her in some way.

Originally Posted by Russophile

I don't remember specifically David threatening to cut his throat (pardon my memory VM! ) however, I do remember David threatening to kill himself. Try Hugo Vickers The Private world of the Duke and Duchess of Windsor and Greg Kings The Duchess of Windsor: The uncommon life of Wallis Simpson.

Thank you, Tsaritsa, for your kind words but I cannot claim credit for summarizing your thoughtful observations. I found the recount of Edward's threat to "cut his throat" most recently in The Queen Mother by Shawcross, p. 366. I used my Christmas present of a Borders gift card to purchase the soft cover version of the Queen Mother's biography before the book chain declared bankruptcy. Shawcross credits the story to Philip Ziegler who wrote King Edward VIII and I also have a copy of that. Ziegler kind of slips this story in at the end of a paragraph on p. 287. Ziegler credits the notes of the second Earl Baldwin from his conversation with Tommy Lascelles who was the King's private secretary during the abdication crisis and overheard the King's conversation with Mrs. Simpson via the telephone.

[Zonk]

I need to reread that bit...I thought Edward told Wallis that he would follow her to the end of the earth (which also a needy comment to make) but I don't recall him saying that he would hurt himself. Though it wouldn't surprise me I guess.

Shame about Border's isn't...now I will have to subscribe to Majesty magazine!

[CarolinaLandgrave]

Originally Posted by Zonk

I need to reread that bit...I thought Edward told Wallis that he would follow her to the end of the earth (which also a needy comment to make) but I don't recall him saying that he would hurt himself. Though it wouldn't surprise me I guess.

She had such a bizarre hold on David....

[Tsaritsa]

I think, whilst she reminded him of his mother at some level she was his idealised version of the mother he wanted and needed. How much more powerful can one woman be?

[CarolinaLandgrave]

I agree with you on the part about needing/wanting/identifying with a motherly figure, Tsaritsa. I am a huge fan of Queen Mary, but maternal she was not.

[NoorMeansLight]

Very strange... I thought her power on him had to do with the fact that she was the only woman he had met who could cover his sexual preferences. Which appears to be absolutely reasonable. And besides the Duchess of Peril was clearly NOT a motherly figure. Where did you read that, Tsaritsa?? Or is it just a thought of yours?!

[CarolinaLandgrave]

I think it's both......and I agree, NML..... which makes it all the more strange - somehow the Duke rolled mother & lover into one odd woman... in my ever so humble opinion.

[NoorMeansLight]

Oedipus complex perhaps??!

[Vasillisos Markos]

There are some who believe that the Duke of Windsor suffered from sexual immaturity, perhaps as a result of illness before hitting puberty. These people based their opinion on his boyish appearance through middle age, the lack or apparent lack of body hair, etc. So, while many speculated that Wallis was experienced in sexual ardor and practices (from her time spent in the Far East), it appears to me the Duke was more interested in her as a maternal figure who would take control of his life.

Then again, maybe she rocked his sexual world! But I think their attraction bordered more on a psychological dependence as opposed to a physical dependence.

[Tsaritsa]

NML and CL, hello to you both. You are both right!! Oedipus complex and mother/lover in one "strange" woman. Your observations on QM are quite correct, there was little of the architypal mother in her, nonetheless her first born may well have felt that he stood a better chance of pleasing her if his father was out of the way. Mary was one of lifes withholders - Freud would have called her anally retentive. Wallis too slots easily into this catagory. It was her lack of anything remotely like maternal feeling that reminded him of his mother thus making a "grownup" relationship possible.......but here we find a questionmark. Wallis affirmed to Baba Metcalfe, wife of Fruity, on her wedding morning that she had not had sexual intercourse with either of her previous husbands. If this was true we must wonder why. Perhaps to give lie to the speculation about her sexual history or to render herself "pure" Either way, it is an unexpected, not to mention odd assertation from a twice married woman. As to David, Ziegler, who is my main reference has him as being "underdeveloped", whilst Thelma Furness has him as sexually undeveloped and has Wallis as "releasing him from his inhibitions". However, long before Wallis a female companion claims to have had with him "a night in paradise!! Well now, who of us would have said he was no good!!! Handsome POWs are always wonderful lovers, aren' t they? We could speculate at length on their physical relationship, but when I think of the pathetic soul I experience him as being I feel glad that whatever it was he craved she was willing to provide.

[Tsaritsa]

VM, in an earlier post I have spoken of complications resulting from a prepubescent bout of mumps. If this complication took the form of orchitis, at that stage of male development, there could well have been problems later on.